Florida almost last in the nation in science scores.

[madfloridian]

From the Florida media blog called The Gradebook.

Florida "pretty much last in the nation for science"

"Florida students are pretty much last in the nation for science," says a power point presentation that Todd Clark, the Department of Education bureau chief for curriculum and instruction, gave to a statewide education group meeting in Lake Mary this week. (Hat tip to Orlando Sentinel School Zone blog.)

FSU physics professor Paul Cottle, who is a blogging beast when it comes to science instruction in Florida, has already highlighted the sad stats in that power point (go to page 30). But they bear repeating.

* In 2008, Florida students were 49th in average ACT science scores

* In 2008, they ranked 47th in the percentage passing AP science exams

* In 2005, Florida eighth graders ranked 36th on the National Assessment of Educational Progress science test

* In 2009, only 2 percent of fifth graders, 2 percent percent of eighth graders and 1 percent of eleventh graders scored at the highest level on the FCAT science exam

Yet Jeb Bush is being courted by other states to show them how to improve their education systems. Makes me wonder why he is so revered. I hear he is showing Georgia schools how to function this week.

In September Jeb was in Indiana with Governor Daniels saying he wanted to adopt everything Jeb did and more.

Jeb Bush hasn't been Florida governor for nearly three years now. Yet the stamp he placed on Florida's education system has been indelible — so much so that other states still bring him in to talk about what he did and how they can do it, too.

This week, Jeb headed to Indianapolis, where he spoke to state leaders about school grading, charter schools, third-grade promotion requirements and several other things he brought to Florida's public schools.

They ate it up.

The Indianapolis Star reports that Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels "would like to adopt everything Bush described — and more." State superintendent of public instruction Tony Bennett was equally enthusiastic, the Louisville Courier-Journal reports.

"There is nothing off the table in the areas of freedom, competition and accountability," Bennett told the Courier-Journal.

One of Jeb's main goals was charter schools. Florida is third in having the most charter schools in the nation that receive public money...just behind California and Arizona.

Yet back in June of this year we learned that Florida's charter schools are not doing very well. No one told Governor Daniels, no one told the governor of Georgia and the others who are praising Jeb's ideas.

From the Orlando Sentinel in June.

Florida's charter school students perform "significantly worse" than peers in traditional schools, new report says

Students in Florida's charter schools, on average, maker fewer academic gains than kids in traditional public schools, according to a new study by Stanford University researchers released today. The study found that Florida is one of six states where "on average the student in a charter school learns statistically and significantly less than they would have in a traditional public school," said Margaret Raymond, the study's lead author.

The study used eight years worth of math and reading test data and compared charter school students to their "virtual twins" in regular schools -- that is students with similar demographics and starting test scores.

Nationally, charter school performance is uneven but "on average, we have schools that are not doing as well as their traditional counterparts. We find that a pretty sobering finding," Raymond said.
Across the country, 17 percent of charter schools do significantly better than traditional ones, 46 percent do the same and 37 percent do far worse, the study found.

Charter schools -- public schools run by private groups and freed from some public school bureaucracy -- need more "quality control" so that the good ones can be replicated and the bad ones weeded out, Raymond added.

In Florida, charter schools did "significantly worse" with most groups of students, the study found.

Yet huge amounts of government taxpayer money is going to states who form more charter schools quickly.

It's pretty mind-boggling to see the push for these schools without much proof behind them.

It's really mind-boggling to see Jeb Bush used as an example of a great reformer of education.

Almost as mind-boggling as seeing Newt Gingrich get all his dreams come true.

I don't have the most recent statistics on Florida's position in other areas of education. Last I heard they were not too super either.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Is *any* southern state above the bottom 15 in *any* educational or health category?

[JonQ]

2. Don't know how this source compares to others but

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

[theoldman]

3. I think Arkansas is last in science if you count college graduates.

My home state of Texas is also near the bottom in education and we are proud of it. We want to be number 1 which most states call number 50. You see, it all depends on your perspective. :)

[madfloridian]

9. lol take your pick....#1 or 50..

Neither TX nor FL can tell the difference. :)

[jpak]

4. And JEB closed FL schools in favor of taxpayer funded christian schools

that fed students expired canned food obtained from local food banks

that had no computers

that used cast-off textbooks from local public schools

and were exempt from FL testing standards and state oversight

and they say JEB is the smart one!

[madfloridian]

28. He did so much harm to FL schools....yet other states honor him.

It is sickening.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

34. How can he even fucking show his face in public?

If we had any sense in this country, we'd hear the name "Bush" and want nothing to do with him. I've often remarked that the one good aspect of W's legacy is that he has saved us the misfortune of any further Bushes.

[Nikki Stone1]

5. Ok, not really surprised here.

This is what happens when you tear apart public education and give into religious zealots at every turn.

Heckova job, Jebbie.

[autorank]

6. k*r How completely unfair to the students in Florida Public Schools

Thanks to Jeb and gullible parents, the students get screwed.

I'm always weary of politicians who say they're the "education" anything. It's almost always a load.

I can understand why you're a mad Floridian!

[madfloridian]

27. That is the truth exactly.

Everyone pretends to know it all about education. No one bothers to ask those of us who trained for years to work with children.

[KG]

7. i blame kids, scarfing down poptarts, swilling soda, and getting fat to video games.

:eyes:

[donco6]

8. But, let's build charters as a requirement in Race to the Top funding!

Damn the statistics, FULL SPEED AHEAD!

[madfloridian]

20. Never mind if it has been determined they work or not....

You are right it is full speed ahead.

[mwb970]

39. Abstinence-only sex education doesn't work either.

So let's push for that as hard as we can! Let's face it. This is what republicans do. Always the wrong answer. Always.

[onethatcares]

10. nanny, nanny poo poo, we got a mayor that believes

man and dinosaurs walked the earth together almost 6000 years ago. But, he's not going to let his personal beliefs interfere with how he governs.


Aw gaud, as the homeowners insurance rates skyrocket I'm trying to think of a way to get this over 55 year old body outa here and o something useful with my life.


Peace.

[madfloridian]

12. I heard Bill Foster won.

Unbelievable. I wrote about him a couple of months ago. It just stunned me that he could win.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/4920

[Xipe Totec]

11. Thank God for Mississippi

And Alabama.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

35. I was just thinking that.

I read that in a book by Molly Ivins. She related that it is often said in Texas when they come up 49th in some ranking.

[Xipe Totec]

36. That's exactly where I'm coming from

Texas.

I love the people. I hate that country.

[immoderate]

13. Down here in Broward

I belong to some free thought groups that are activist. We run several educational programs, some in cooperation with local schools and colleges. For example, we're sponsoring the first wintertime Camp Quest. During a brain storming session, one of our ideas for a project was to set up a charter school that offered a "strong secular education" emphasizing discovery and critical thinking. (I hope you see the irony. :))

It's kind of on a back burner now because of all the obstacles, and no notion of location and how we would populate the school. But our groups have several teachers and professors, and strong ties with other groups like the local ACLU and JREF who would be interested in helping.

Over all though, I support strong public schools. There should be no need for charter schools, although I think theme schools or magnet schools can be innovative.

Edit to add: Two years ago when there were public meetings to comment on the new state science standards, which looked pretty good to me, I spoke in favor at a town meeting in Miramar. Preceding me was some school superintendent(!) from the pan handle who said he drove eleven hours to inform us that evolution was "just a theory" among other theories. I had the chance to define scientific theory for them, and point out that Florida was in a lot of trouble if there were supes who were that ignorant. B-)

--imm

[madfloridian]

15. Many superintendents and school boards and principals support creationism.

Maybe you met this guy from the panhandle?

Florida school superintendent on evolution: "There's holes in it you can drive a truck through."

A growing number of North Florida superintendents and school boards are objecting to the state's proposed new science standards, saying the standards give too much credence to evolution and leave no room for alternative theories.

Evolution is "going to be taught as fact, and everyone knows it's not fact," said Dennis Bennett, the superintendent in Dixie County, west of Gainesville. "There's holes in it you can drive a truck through."

At least seven of Florida's 67 school boards, all north of Ocala, have passed opposition resolutions, according to the Florida Citizens for Science, a group that supports the standards and has been methodically searching board minutes.

That number could double by the time the state Board of Education votes on the standards Feb. 19, said Wayne Blanton, executive director of the Florida School Boards Association.

"It just shows the nature of Florida," Blanton said.

[4lbs]

17. Huh?

<snip>
Evolution is "going to be taught as fact, and everyone knows it's not fact," said Dennis Bennett, the superintendent in Dixie County, west of Gainesville. "There's holes in it you can drive a truck through."
</snip>


Oh yeah, like Creationism and the Bible are rock solid in being tested and verified. :eyes:

Evolution has undergone much, much, more scientific scrutiny than Creationism and the Bible.

[madfloridian]

18. Amazing, isn't it?

And they think they are right and we are wrong, that scientific facts are wrong. The ones who believe in creationism often have a saying....I know cause I heard it growing up Southern Baptist.

"God said it, I believe it, that settles it."

Now how in the world can you argue with that?

[alp227]

41. Say stupid things, get the consequences

School boards can be democratically elected until the members decide to dunk their heads in the toilet and use their power to lobby for teaching pseudoscience. When that happens, government needs to step in. Problem? It hasn't. It's too busy rubbing snake oil (charter schools) on communities to appease an incompetent Education Department.

[ellenfl]

14. how many of his brother's products has jebbie sold to those states?

the stupidity of jeb and his cronies is mind boggling but then they actually believe that charter schools are better . . . and f*ck public education. you gotta give all the bushes credit for being smart con men. :eyes:

back in the day, i got a great education in florida's public school system.

ellen fl

[madfloridian]

16. They sold quite a few of the Ignite software products...

I remember reading about Seminole County, I think, and a couple of others.

Yes, Florida schools were good schools until they were deprived of resources and demoralized.

[madfloridian]

19. Are you smarter than a first-grader? Odd question on county test.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/schools/2009/10/are-you-smarter-than-a-first-grader.html

"Are you smarter than a first-grader?

In years of writing about education, I've always heard that most children learn to read through second grade, and then read to learn beginning in third grade. So this first-grade math problem, which appears as part of Hillsborough County's tailored curriculum designed by Metropolitan Teaching and Learning, confused me (and more than a few first-graders I know).




Perhaps the gifted among us quickly came up with "You can't tell from the information provided." But most adults I've posed this first-grade math problem to answered "six." Which would be the right answer if the school asked "How many marbles did Tom give to Luis?"

"Which leaves me with some questions that perhaps you could weigh in on:

* Is this supposed to be a trick math question aimed at teaching first-graders who are learning to read, to read more carefully? (Would that be fair, anyway?)
* Or, is this just a poorly done math problem that made it through all the editors and into the hands of confused first-graders and parents? (If so, should Hillsborough taxpayers demand their money back?)"

[madfloridian]

26. That question shows the lack of regulation of test writing companies.

That should not have been on the test. But since no one is allowed to see the tests beforehand...no one could catch it.

Not a good situation.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. We is lost.

Charter Schools have a very right-wing (Rep. and Dem combined)following. Some guy Thompson, as in Tommy Thompson (sp?) was part of a good ole boy group (that's what they called themselves) which built charter schools in the Osceola area in the late nineties. Once the schools were built, the board of directors was changed to educators and the builders went on to the next project.

The other big thing people are missing, is not so much that they want to pull the money away from the public schools to make them less effective, but that they want to attract poor whites to those charter schools to continue the right-wing indoctrination. The minorities are just the icing on the cake. What better soldiers for the right-wing, than indoctrinated minorities?

The one thing that will turn this around is if charter schools are required to be as accountable as public schools. Because these charter schools are establishing networks that will ensure that "their kind" are getting the jobs in Florida. Not because of merit. They would be making a broad sweep, prejudicial decision that charter school graduates are superior than public schoolers.

[madfloridian]

23. Very good point about establishing a network...

one that would benefit only certain teachers and other education leaders. One of the unfortunate parts of this is that experienced teachers who have earned more through the years....will be replaced with cheaper versions with few requirements as to accountability.

Cheaper is often better as it earns more for the top level folks.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. Its also easier to indoctrinate and intimidate inexperienced teachers.

You try doing that to a seasoned Florida teacher, especially one with some southern upbringing, and they'll call you out.

[Ohio Joe]

22. I thought I read a while back...

That they teach creationism with evolution in science down there. If true, it could explain some of it.

[madfloridian]

24. Yes, that is true. Some counties have taught both.

The new state law says they can't do that anymore, but the religious right has done failed lawsuits to avoid the law. They have not given up yet. Teachers are hassled sometimes teaching evolution.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Mass. is 1st in the nation on almost all K-12 academic scales

If Mass was a country, I think we'd be third in the world (based on international tests).

But really nobody gives a shit. When someone in Washington pulls their head out of their fundamental orifice and says, "wait a sec - let's see what Mass. is doing, and replicate it elsewhere" I'll know that we're on the road to following actual evidence, not wild guesses.

[madfloridian]

30. Parents sue FL over public school funding...

Angry parents sue Florida over poor educational funding

New Source: JusticeNewsFlash.com
Legal news for Florida governmental attorneys. Florida parents claim the state is violating educational constitutional rights. Florida government lawyers alerts- Parents and advocacy groups file a lawsuit against the state of Florida over quality of schooling. Orlando, FLSeveral Orange County parents along with two advocacy groups are suing Floridas state legislature and the Department of Education. The plaintiffs claimed Floridas lawmakers and regulators are in violation with the states constitutional provision, which says Floridas children have the right to high quality education, as reported by WFTV. This lawsuit is the second one within weeks, which alleges the state is spending a small sum of money on education. The lawsuit was filed on Wednesday, November 17, 2009, by angry parents, Citizens for Strong Schools and Fund Education Now. Florida is reported to spend the least per student in the nation on education, with the exception of Utah. In the past year the amount of money spent per student has dropped from $7,309 to $5,634. Parents fear when the federal stimulus money ultimately runs out, more schools in Orange County could become closed. Since the state legislature changed how it spends money, it has put a large burden on local governments.

That change means there is more and more money going to privately run charter schools, money going to poor students for vouchers to private schools....and far less for public education.

Source: Angry parents sue Florida over poor educational funding

[alp227]

42. Good!

That'll teach the damn state a lesson. Let the Supreme Court intervene if necessary.

[nytemare]

31. No wonder I get that "Mars will look bigger than the moon to the naked eye"

e-mail every year from some co-worker. Some co-worker who hasn't even the common sense to think about that claim for just a moment. Lets say a planet, almost the size of earth ALL OF A SUDDEN got close enough to the Earth to appear as large as the moon to the naked eye. Gee, wouldn't the mutual gravitational pull of each planet sort of fuck up the orbits, let alone the tides? Honestly.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/07jul_marshoax.htm

[ChadwickHenryWard]

32. You know something?

I don't believe I've ever heard any good news about education in this country. Scores only ever seem to be going down. State politicians always seem to have some new scheme to improve education, but they never come up with one that works. I remember what George Carlin said about education - that we'll never have good schools because the wealthy don't want it. They have private schools to send their kids to, so they keep us perpetually unattended to.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[JBear]

37. This saddens me terribly...

As a product of Florida's public schools, I received a TOP NOTCH education. This of course was back in the 80s when Florida was often represented at the International Science Fair and even took top honors there (as my sister will attest!).

So, what happened?

I blame it on Reagan. The attitude of "don't tax me" set off a spark of underfunding of education that no industrialized country has ever seen. We used the lottery as a means for funding schools! How ironic is it that we use a tax on people who can't do math to fund schools?

In my high school, we were given a range of classes including a basic, fundamental, functional set all the way up to very challenging, high achievement classes. We were able to take AP calculus, AP biology, AP physics, AP chemistry, AP English etc.

Kids took classes appropriate to their abilities. There were levels appropriate to each level of learning - we called them phase 1-2, phase 3, phase 4-5. This way kids got the instruction they needed to learn, and yes you learned more in phase 4-5 than in phase 3.

All of this took some effort from the school system, but as we were on the space coast, the parents of the day demanded it. When it came time to register for the next year's classes, each kid met with a guidance counselor to help them make good choices.

Interestingly enough, we had a couple of private schools in the area. When kids would transfer from them to the public schools, they were WAY behind and had a lot of catching up to do.

All of this hinged on a couple of basic things:

1 - Parents demanded good education and therefore were involved in what happened at school.
2 - The school system was properly funded so that there could be guidance counselors and high achieving classes.
3 - Value was placed on opportunity to learn from a broad base of offerings, not from standardized test minimums.

Tying this back to science in particular, my high school produced at least 4 best of show winners at the International Science Fair in the mid to late 80s. The teachers that worked with these kids were outstanding! They deserve a round of applause for the effort they put in to help these kids succeed. Today's school system places no value on this kind of work and that has to change!

Mad-former-Floridian
:bounce:

[madfloridian]

38. Yes, it started with Reagan.

We received good educations in Florida schools. In my early years of teaching the kids scored well on standardized tests...staying up there with the top in the nation. The parents trusted us as teachers, and the children did as well.

That changed in the 80s when Reagan started his crusade against public schools.

Three years into his first term Mr. Reagan's criticism of public education reached a crescendo when he hand picked a "blue ribbon" commission that wrote a remarkably critical and far-reaching denunciation of public education. Called "A Nation At Risk," this document charged that the US risked losing the economic competition among nations due to a "... rising tide of (educational) mediocrity that threatens our very future as a Nation and a people." (The commissioners did not consider the possibility that US firms were uncompetitive because of corporate mismanagement, greed and short sightedness.)After "A Nation At Risk" the nation's public schools were fair game for every ambitious politician or self-important business boss in the country. Its publication prompted a flood of follow-up criticism of public education as "blue ribbon" and "high level" national commissions plus literally hundreds of state panels wrote a flood of reform reports. Most presupposed that the charges made by Mr. Reagan's handpicked panel were true. Oddly though, throughout this entire clamor, parental confidence in the school's their children attended remained remarkably high. Meanwhile Mr. Reagan was quietly halving federal aid to education.

That sums up Mr. Reagan's educational legacy. As governor and president he demagogically fanned discontent with public education, then made political hay of it. As governor and president he bashed educators and slashed education spending while professing to valued it. And as governor and president he left the nation's educators dispirited and demoralized.

What saddens me even more is to see Jeb Bush get such praise from other states.

Even worse is to see Jeb praising Arne Duncan for his education policies which after all are Bush policies.

[mwb970]

40. It's amazing how many aspects of American life began their decline under Reagan.

"Transformational president", indeed. St. Ronaldus transformed America from the leader of the world to a pathetic nation of selfish, clueless losers. Of course, he had help, and it took 30 years for us to degenerate this far, but I blame the lethal change in our direction on the Sainted One.

[alp227]

43. Some song lyrics to get the perspective of this situation

From "Bulls on Parade" by Rage Against the Machine (1996):

Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes
Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal
I walk tha corner to tha rubble that used to be a library
Line up to tha mind cemetary now
What we don't know keeps tha contracts alive an movin'
They don't gotta burn tha books they just remove 'em
While arms warehouses fill as quick as tha cells
Rally round tha family, pockets full of shells

From "Hate it or Love It" by The Game (2005):

Waiting on Sha Money to land sitting in the range
Thinking how they spend 30 million dollars on airplanes
When there's kids starving
Pac is gone, and Brenda still throwing babies in the garbage
I wanna know what's going on like I hear Marvin
No school books
They use their wood to build coffins

From "Keep Ya Head Up" by Tupac Shakur (1991):

You know it's funny when it rains it pours
They got money for wars, but can't feed the poor
Say there ain't no hope for the youth and the truth is
it ain't no hope for the future

The military-industrial complex has been sucking money from our minds way too long now. Seriously, that's the Reagan legacy.

[madfloridian]

48. Yes, that is the Reagan legacy.

Unfortunately.

[BREMPRO]

44. welcome to the "facts don't matter" party. Just nice sounding rhetoric sprinkled with

words like "freedom" and "liberty" and "smaller government" and "lower taxes" and "free markets" is all we need. Facts, smacts.

[Doctor_J]

45. They've been under right-wing rule for a generation now

this is the future of Amerikkka. At least the Nazis let von Braun and other non-Jewish scientists & engineersdo their thing.

[Doctor_J]

46. Florida - the "sophisiticated" part of Ooze-Beckistan

What a tragedy

[Turbineguy]

47. Not surprising

Florida drivers don't seem to know shit about physics, that's for sure.