"Facts Behind 'Men Who Stare at Goats'" by Linda Pease (11-16-09 Consortium News)

[bobthedrummer]

"Can people really influence the physical world with thought alone? And if so, dare we use that power for evil, instead of good? Or will the effort come back to haunt us?"

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/111609a.html

[bobthedrummer]

1. "UK officials say ESP research was conducted by Ministry of Defense" by Steve Hammons

(3-3-07 American Chronicle)
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/21557

[Raster]

2. !

Ronson’s book suggests that some of the torture methods used in the recent wars were more similar to the infamous Nazi experiments that tested human limits than any intelligence-gathering exercise, the standard excuse for this war crime.

Both the CIA and the military have sought to control minds — from within and from without — for years.

In the 1950s and early 1960s, the CIA conducted numerous mind-control experiments designed in some cases to break down people’s defenses so they would tell the truth when captured and designed in other cases to produce operational amnesia so that the truth could never be extracted if the agent was captured. (One wonders if the fact that these goals were mutually exclusive seemed to bother anyone.)

The CIA experimented with drugs, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, flashing lights, sleep deprivation, and other torturous techniques, sometimes in “terminal” experiments.

CIA scientists tried to completely control people’s behavior. They discussed fragmenting minds through trauma and then rebuilding the fragmented parts into multiple personalities that could be separately programmed, so that personality A would not know what personality B was doing even though both personalities shared the same body.

[bobthedrummer]

5. Yes, yet this is cross-cultural and has been going on throughout human history.

It isn't tinfoil at all and I'm glad that there has been a spike in information about this recently.

[havocmom]

10. Didn't CIA and/or DOD experiment with remote viewing also?

In response to evidence the Soviets were testing this method for intel gathering?

[bobthedrummer]

3. Edwin C. May's Cognitive Sciences Laboratory is still looking for esp "volunteers"

http://www.lfr.org/LFR/csl/index.html

[Dover]

4. Asimov gave us the "Mule"

Maybe he was onto something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

[undergroundpanther]

6. Put yourself in place of any warmonger

control freak psychopath shithead who wants to dominate the world and take it for themselves.Hell yes they will try anything, hurt anyone, use strange technology,mind control,manipulation, fear, bribe and force.. to get it.

I was hurt by the fuckers years ago, this is part of why I have PSTD.
I do not trust any twisted authoritarian asshole.And our Govt. is full of too many of them,especially DoD,CIA ect..

[vadawg]

23. WTF did you stare at goats?????? what are you talking about..

[rucky]

7. proof:

[Nikki Stone1]

8. I am especially interested in this part, if anyone has any information:

The media laughed when it was revealed that one of the songs used to torture captured Iraqis was the “I Love You” song from the popular icon of children, the purple dinosaur named Barney. The media totally avoided the far more serious fact that music, especially when played in ways that cause serious sleep deprivation, can be horrific instruments of torture.

Songs can even, as another children’s show composer learned, provably reduce knowledge. Ronson talked to Christopher Cerf, the longtime composer for the beloved children’s show Sesame Street. Cerf told how the Sesame Street team includes education researchers who test the results of his work to see if it really helps children learn.

In one case, a song he wrote provably helped kids unlearn something they already knew.

“So I figure if I have the power to suck information out of people’s brains by writing these songs, maybe that’s something that could be useful to the CIA for brainwashing techniques,” Cerf told Ronson.


http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/111609a.html

[dixiegrrrrl]

28. He is on to something there.

Barry Manilow songs always leave me felling stupid.

[Homer Wells]

31. Sounds about right to me!

Just take a ride on the old "It's a Small World" attraction at Disney World, and you will hear torture in action.

:evilgrin: :scared:

[arcadian]

9. It's disinfo

[Nikki Stone1]

11. Is it really?

How do you know?

[arcadian]

18. I t just seems like bullshit to me.

Stupid projects that they use to divert funds to deeper black projects, I don't know. I've read a few books about it, 'Psychic Warriors' by one of the guys in the Stargate program and also 'In Search of the Manchurian Candidate' about MKULTRA. Maybe people just put stuff out there and then were shockingly surprised when the DoD actually gave them funding.

[TalkingDog]

25. Not too far off the mark. I know people who have gotten "grants"

and while (IMHO) the project is specious, they military wants to make sure that if anything useful is really developed, they want to own it.

There is a long and ignoble history of funding stupid projects. Britain's funding of a Naval Carrier made entirely of ice is one example.

[phasma ex machina]

40. +1

Maybe people just put stuff out there and then were shockingly surprised when the DoD actually gave them funding.

Sounds too right.

[GeorgeGist]

12. It might explain Palindroid Syndrome ...

everything makes sense if you're forced to think backwards.

[Bitwit1234]

13. Talking about ESP and such

Does anybody else see this...When I hold up my hand or my arm, or move my head when I look in the mirror I see a distortion around my body. It looks like heat waves being given up something you are heating up. My son doesn't see them. The distortion is about 1/2 an inch all around my fingers, hand etc. When I have and inanimate object, like a bottle etc I don't see it, just my body. What is it does any body know.

[PADemD]

15. It's your aura.

[vadawg]

24. its your imagination or you are having other problems, i would see a doctor just in case

[PADemD]

14. The Real X-Files Documentary

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-real-x-files/

[Codeine]

16. Isn't there a Woo forum for crap like this? nt

[Bitwit1234]

17. Isn't this general discussion???

[conscious evolution]

20. You mean like the Church Commision?

Google that phrase. CIA mind control experiments were and are very real.The spread of LSD into popular culture was a direct result of MKUltra experiments.Just ask Ken Kesey and Dr. Timothy Leary.

[Octafish]

21. Ambassador CIA Director Shah Toady Richard Helms burned all he could.

Shredded what he had to and otherwise tried to bury all knowledge of the program. What leaked out, his MOCKINGBIRD turdballs ridicule.

[SidDithers]

35. Thankfully, yes...

But the Woo is strong at DU.

Sid

[Octafish]

19. Quantum Mechanics

For your favorite Know-It-All:

The Observer in Modern Physics - Some Personal Speculations


For your least favorite Know-Nothing:

Ideas from Fred Alan Wolf, PhD


For those who want to Learn Something New:

THOUGHTS ON QUANTUM ANTHROPOLOGICAL LINGUISTICS


What the bleep do I know, anyway?

[nashville_brook]

22. ah, my reading list for the evening...

thank you, Octafish!

[Octafish]

29. You're welcome, my Friend.

Here's more on the subject:

Consciousness and the New Physics

An oldie, but goodie. Speaking of which:

Space, Time and Beyond

an illustrated read that (also) posits the idea that consciousness may be the master field.

[nashville_brook]

32. i've always felt that our minds reside elsewhere than in our brain. that, our brain, in fact

is a tuning device, like a radio -- such that when we say someone is "on our wavelength" we're giving a rich and apt description of the relationship. this was a notion that i had to defend to a self-described "eliminative materialist" prof in my Philosophy of Mind class. I was too young at the time to do a whiz-bang job of my defense, but it was enough to rate a high-B, which, for this prof was saying something.

i fell asleep reading the Quantum Linguistics piece, and have put Fred Alan Wolf to the top of my reading list again. I loved What the Bleep, but didn't do much reading on it afterward. I really loved the discussion of Whole vs Fragmented language; such a helpful model!

[phasma ex machina]

41. All links look interesting. Thanks for sharing. nt

[CanSocDem]

42. Ah yes....

Space,Time and Beyond.

Discovered that book in the early 70's while reading the Seth material. Not that I, or the Seth material, needed 'confirmation' on the nature of reality, but that book so elegantly illustrated the concepts of creating your own reality that I thought we, as a species, would be further along that road by the 21st century.

Thanks for the links!

.

[omega minimo]

26. Thanks for the link. That piece was long and boring. And who the fuck is Dan?

The answer to the question is: We all do it, all the time, aware or not, like it or not, that IS reality.

[EFerrari]

27. Here's the BookTV segment re the book:

http://www.booktv.org/Watch/5650/The+Men+Who+Stare+at+Goats.aspx

[laughingliberal]

30. Interesting...nt

[DU GrovelBot]

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[nashville_brook]

34. i LOVED this piece -- didn't find it long or boring, but that's prolly b/c the names are familiar

from following the whole 'remote viewing' story since it broke in the 90s. What i found most interesting in the article (not having seen the movie) is the notion of a "peace brigade" and that that's where the "be all you can be" slogan came from. i get the sense from this, that these ideas came from the top or else they wouldn't have enjoyed any attention, let alone funding.

[newspeak]

36. Went to see the movie

I liked it. I thought I could of come up with this movie, since I had read about experiments in remote viewing. Didn't the dept. of defense financially support this project at Stanford University?

Also went to see the movie 2012 based upon Hapgood's theory of crust displacement. I tell ya, I'm missing out--I've read these books years ago-I could have been a contender I tell ya. I wished I had come up with the idea of creating these scripts.

[SidDithers]

37. "Can people really influence the physical world with thought alone?"...

No.

Sid

[Johonny]

38. pretty much

however it can generate a surprising amount of junk science funding from the Government. Bad ideas never die or lose funding. It's amazing.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

43. We made you post that.

[Naturyl]

39. Operation Stargate, I would imagine

Apparently the government funded research into "remote viewing" and such for some time.

[MinM]

44. Lisa Pease gave a great interview on KGO Radio

last weekend. It'll only be available a few more days...

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbayradio.kgoradio.com%2Fkgo_archives%2Fm3u%2F00500.m3u&h=990490c7bdd7795aab9ab9d633847366

via

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2009/11/mob-didnt-run-plot-to-kill-kennedy.html


:dem:

[bobthedrummer]

45. Thanks for posting her interview, MinM.

Below is a somewhat related (not off-topic to the interview, or this thread) kpete thread started July 19, 2009

"Internal Rifts on Road to Torment-Interviews Offer More Nuanced Look At Roles of CIA Contractors"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6101849