thats nice. walking my dog here in town and seeing 3 dead deer hanging from a tree

[Mari333]

lovely.

IN town. Not out in the country somewhere, where we dont have to see it, but in town. where every kid and passerby can see 3 large deer hanging by their necks from a large tree with their tongues hanging out, like yard ornaments.

and its legal, it seems.

but we cannot have our grass grow over 6 inches or we get a ticket.
we cannot have pretty lawn ornaments gracing our parkways or we get a ticket.
we cannot have live chickens or goats or we get a ticket.
we cannot allow wild bergamot or pokeweed to grow in yards or we get a ticket.

but I can hang 3 HUGE dead deer in my trees anytime I want !

(I already know the blahblahblah about hunting, too many deer, etc etc etc, so dont start)

Going to bring this up at the next city council meeting.

[niyad]

1. don't know what the legal limit is where you are, but I would be tempted to call the wildlife people

and see if that person actually had a license for three deer. here, the limit is ONE.

[Mari333]

4. sigh. I called. 3 is their limit.

the police also said its legal. maybe he will eviscerate them in front of all the neighborhood kids , like a sideshow, in his yard.

[GreenStormCloud]

12. Deer are usually gutted immediately at the kill site. N/T

[MineralMan]

And then, they are hung for skinning and butchering.

That rarely happens in the field, and never at the site where the deer was killed.

[MineralMan]

36. No doubt they are already eviscerated. They are there

for skinning and basic butchering. It's done while hanging to simplify the skinning job. Deer are eviscerated in the field (field-dressing), but almost never skinned and cut up there, unless there is a serious camp set up. Then, the deer may be skinned and quartered if cold storage is available.

[Why Syzygy]

2. Good idea.

I wouldn't think that hanging deer from a tree is an integral part of hunting.

[metalbot]

6. It actually is

Normally they'll be field dressed and hung upside down. It's hard to butcher a deer that isn't hanging from something, though most hunters I know at least have the decency to do this in their garage.

[Lasher]

7. Actually it is.

A hunter has an ethical responsibility to ensure game is not wasted. It is important to cool and bleed the carcass. And when you skin the animal you need to have it hanging from something.

Edit: Not piling on, just slow on the trigger (pun intended).

[Hubert Flottz]

68. Must be a freeper if he hung them up by the neck...

Two freepers went out deer hunting and one of them shot a deer. He pulled out his rope and tied it to the deer's hind feet and they started dragging the deer toward the car. They came upon another hunter and the guy told them that the deer would be much easier to drag if they'd turn it around and drag it the other way. After the guy walked away the two freepers started dragging the deer again and after about an hour on freeper said to the other, "I believe it is easier dragging the deer this way." The other freeper replied, "Yeah, but look how far away from the care we are getting!"

The next year the same two freepers went out hunting again. They split up and in a few minutes one of them saw something move and he blasted it. He went over to see his deer and to his sad surprise he had shot his friend instead of a deer. He got his friend out of the woods and drove him to the ER. The poor freeper who had been shot was taken straight to the operating room and the shooter paced the floor in the waiting room for hours until finally the doctor came in to talk to him. The freeper asked, "How is he doc, is he going to pull through?" The doctor mopped his forehead and replied, "Well he would have been a lot better off if you hadn't gutted him!"

[gratefultobelib]

72. Made me chuckle! Thanks!

[Lasher]

108. Ha ha ha, good thing they weren't quail hunting.

I don't think old lawyers are in season around here this year.

[Why Syzygy]

152. LOL!

:rofl:

To the above two posters who kindly replied to me .. I had an IDEA that deer are hung for dressing. However, hanging from "A TREE" would seem optional. My grandparents, dad and ex-dh hunted all the time. We had venison in the freezer. I NEVER saw a deer hanging from a tree! Therefore, it is not "integral".

Yes I am quite literal thank you.

[WolverineDG]

179. If a tree is all you have

that's where Bambi swings from.

dg

[zonkers]

87. But a new law might deprive that guy of the right to bum everyone's day, dangling bambi carcasses

Would that be fair?

[NYC_SKP]

3. Such ridiculous and inconsistent laws. This Could have been Suicide.

In protest thereof.

:hide:

[ddeclue]

46. OMG! ROFL! DUZY ALERT!

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

88. If only they had scrawled "FED" into their chests...

...Then we would KNOW it was suicide.

:eyes:

[AwakeAtLast]

130. It was a warning for all the other deer

:D

[BlooInBloo]

236. Pfft. It was clearly autoerotic asphyxiation.

[ZombieHorde]

253. That is how I want to go. nt

[KG]

5. could be worse, what if it was laundry?

that would send property values plummeting! :P

[ddeclue]

66. DUZY!

[GreenStormCloud]

8. That's how deer are butchered. In a few hours they will be gone.

What's wrong with kids seeing them? I was raised on a ranch and helped with animals being killed and butchered. Somewhere around my house, in a drawer somewhere with other old pictures, is a picture of myself at age six, in front of a deer hanging from a tree. It was taken about sixty years ago.

Suggestion: Mind your own business.

[seabeyond]

all people are not you. all people are not made up like you. and all people dont want to see

death.

what is wrong about respecting your desire to hunt, and you respecting my desire not to see.

[Mari333]

20. exactly

if they want to do it, fine. but this is in town in a neighborhood of people.
Its also not hidden, its right by the main streets where everyone can see dead deer with tongues hanging out dripping onto his driveway.

yeah, its his property. fine. its legal, fine.


I guess if I had a taste for dog i can slaughter my dog and hang it on a tree, right?


wouldnt bother anyone, right?

but god forbid my grass is over 6 inches.

[GreenStormCloud]

29. So gripe to the council about the six inch law instead of trying to make trouble for your neighbor.

The deer will be gone soon.

[seabeyond]

39. you self absorbed attitutde is so prevelent in this society today. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

40. Self-absorbed? Nah. Leaving neighbors alone.

You need to quit being a busybody.

[seabeyond]

47. moran much. neighbor is the one not leaving neighborhood alone.

[dysfunctional press]

115. he's using his own properly legally.

if neighbors don't like it, they are free to look away.

sheesh...:eyes:

[seabeyond]

124. of couse it is legal. any mention otherwise. and what if a person is actually senistive to

those around him and doesnt hang for all to see. what if a person actually concerned his fellowman.

my fuckin god to have so many arrogant self absorbed assholes in the world.

[MineralMan]

133. Hmm...one might even consider people who are offended by

legal activities and call the cops to be self-centered assholes, you know. I wouldn't ever do that, but I rarely refer to anyone using that word.

Now, I don't know why the person in question hung his deer on that tree. Perhaps that's the only place he had to do so. Perhaps he did not have a tree in his back yard. Perhaps he didn't have a garage or the garage was full of stuff he was storing for a friend who lost his home in a foreclosure.

Perhaps he is hunting and butchering his own meat because he has no job and his family needs the food to eat. There are so many possibilities, none of which were even considered by the OP. Instead, the OP called the game warden on this person, only to be told that what the man was doing was perfectly legal. And then the OP came here and posted about it, only to be told by some DUers that what the man was doing was perfectly legal.

And, yet, it is those who recognize that hunting is perfectly legal and that game must be processed who are the "assholes." They're the "self-centered" ones, while the person doing the complaining about someone's legal activities is not acting in self-interest at all.

"Live and let live." That used to be the progressive creed. It's a shame that it is no longer honored by some who call themselves progressives. "Live, but don't do anything of which I disapprove or that troubles me in any way." Is that the new creed? I don't think so. I think that is the creed of those who are so wrapped up in their own selves that they cannot deal with anything that doesn't fit their interpretation of how things should be. Oh, well...

[uppityperson]

164. Very good. Thank you.

"one might even consider people who are offended by legal activities and call the cops to be self-centered assholes, you know. I wouldn't ever do that, but I rarely refer to anyone using that word."

[seabeyond]

178. but you are not living and let living. you are putting forefront for all to see, what is offensive

to some.

is it a man thing that i have tripped on here. is it the bragging right of bagging these animals that i simply forgot to take into the equation.

my father a farmer, raised chickens for us to eat and animals to butcher to eat when we were poor. decades ago. manly man. hunted. and never would he have practiced putting dead animals for those to see, who might be bothered by it.

my brother as manly man as he is, would never consider putting up a dead animal for young children to endure. but then he has never felt the need to proves his manhood.

and husband would never consider it.

this is a world i am not getting, with replies from the guys on this board to hold their kill up as trophies, and EVERYONE around them must suck it up.

i have to see it as trippin on the male ego here, unaware.

ok

done with this thread casue the replies simply make no sense. the live and let live as the dead animal is shoved in everyones faces to view. make no sense.

[uppityperson]

187. No sea, I'm very much female but take offense at the other restrictions on OP's home

those seem a whole lot of strict restrictions (is that a redundancy?).

[seabeyond]

197. i am not talking restriction or law. you wont see me arguing law or rules

hardly ever, even when i disagree with something.

i am trying to understand the mentality of posters on the board, putting up dead animals for all to experience, without consideration.

that is more challenging for me

i laid out the thread to husband just now and asked him. leaving up for anytime bothers him. considering others may be offended is not a thought for him at all. (which surprised me). i asked if kids were younger, if he would let me know what he was doing and say, keep kids in house until i am done.... and that was an obvious. was at that point he saw, of course with his little ones he would protect from viewing, and the lack of consideration for all others in his neighborhood

at that point, he got a little uncomfortable

but mine is to understand the mentality, or thinking on this, per replies. not to tell someone to do or not to do, call cops or demand a law. not into that

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

276. Heaven forbid children would be aware of where some of their food comes from.

[Roon]

247. call the cops to be self-centered assholes

That reminds me of the old lady who called 911 because two guys were making out on a bench downtown. The cops came and told them to "be cool" and left.

[dysfunctional press]

159. what he said.

in spades.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. This is the first time I have ever heard anybody complain about it.

Around here the response by neighbors would be to ask about the hunt. Nobody would be offended.

Do you really think your meat starts out in neatly wrapped platic?

[Mari333]

34. I dont eat meat and because I know where it comes from is why I dont.

[seabeyond]

38. dont be stupid. of course i dont. i also dont want to see it. why the disrespect, then the demand

all should have to look at it.

your position is arrogant and disrespectful.

not reasoned

[GreenStormCloud]

48. Because you are going to try to force a stranger to obey your will.

Progressives allow other to do as they please, as long as they don't directly harm someone. Occasionally butchering a deer in the yard harms no one.

[seabeyond]

50. yes... it does harm, but you just dismiss it because you dont feel it should.

progressives dont trump themselves over all others without consideration

[Kali]

86. what harm does it do?

being offended or slightly grossed out is hardly "harm"

life occasionally throws you a view you might rather not see, but hanging deer harming somebody? I mean I see "ugly" in lots of places do I have a right to demand that old fart in his black socks and sandals cover up?

[MineralMan]

94. Hey! Oh, wait...never mind.

I always wear white socks. As you were...

[MineralMan]

137. I'm afraid that the issue here is really not the deer hanging.

It's the entire concept of eating meat. For those who consider meat-eaters to be "kill defenders," anyone who hunts game and eats it is a murderer. Bambi is, for some, the moral equivalent of a human being.

This is not about some guy who was hanging the results of a successful hunt so he could process it. This is about the vast majority of people who eat meat as part of their diet. This man was just putting the evidence of his meat-eating in a visible place.

Those who are pointing out that the man was doing nothing illegal are "self-centered assholes," it seems, according to some. Never mind that they're acting in accordance with the law. Never mind that this is only a temporary situation. Never mind anything. Someone was offended by the display of carnivorous human behavior. That's harm enough. That obviates the hunter's right to hunt, process, and eat his game. It is, for someone, the majority that is wrong.

It's a regular theme here.

[uppityperson]

169. 'Those who are pointing out that the man was doing nothing illegal are "self-centered assholes," '

to quote you again in a subject line where it can be seen more. Good quote.

Those who are pointing out that the man was doing nothing illegal are "self-centered assholes," it seems, according to some.

[WolverineDG]

184. These people better not go to a foreign country

where the butchers hang carcasses, heads & all, in their stores & in their windows. Oh the horror! Won't someone think of the children? :sarcasm:

dg

[uppityperson]

188. Well, THAT explains why those feriners are like they are, don't it

:sarcasm: also

[Codeine]

190. Imagine the devastating emotional impact!

Much ado about nothing.

[Go2Peace]

201. Actually, as someone who eats venison occassionally, I "get" this

why shouldn't they be required to hang the animal in a garage or their backyard? My wife would be mortified. I don't see it as she does, but she is one of the nicest, most decent human beings I know, and I understand and respect her and everyone like her as much as I respect my own rights.

If we can require people to mow their lawns and have other related laws to provide consistancy and hold up standards we can also require deer not to be hung in front of the house. I find it entirely inconsistant not to. And we can respect the feelings of others as well. We are going to have to learn to do so sooner or later in this society.

[Kali]

212. I get the offened part. I can grasp that someone could be shocked and dismayed by it.

What I don't get is how offense translates to harm. How does seeing dead deer harm anyone beyond what seeing a runover skunk would do?

As for self-centered assholes, well that seems to be even more subjective! Yes in the front yard is a bit "in your face" on the other hand its only for a short, short time (I would have thought a few hours at most, but even a few days) and apparently in a state/local where hunting is a common activity. Some cultures are able to recognize boundaries and maybe wouldn't be staring into the neighbors' property/space...just saying. Seems to me one can make an easy argument either side of this example could be called self-centered.

I think OP should feel her shock, resolve not to look and realize that others are within their rights to do things she finds offensive. Don't we wish many more examples of harmless-but-not-my-lifestyle shocking sights could just be ignored so the diversity that makes us interesting can flourish!

[GreenStormCloud]

116. Tolerance is a progressive value. You are being intolerant of him. N/T

[seabeyond]

125. what an ass backward world you live in. nt

[PassingFair]

261. You are thinking of Libertarians, not Progressives. Progressives care a lot about offending others..

but I imagine it's a simple error for
a Libertarian such as yourself to make.

[metalbot]

58. Don't you see death every day at the grocery store?

Although I do think it's a little classless to hang carcasses up where people can see if you have a garage or suitable tree in back of your house.

[seabeyond]

59. that is really a stupid argument. nt

[ddeclue]

71. no it's a logical argument.

[seabeyond]

75. no, it isnt. too many differences between meat packaged and dead deer hangin in tree

and since it is so obvious the differences, i will assume you are willfully ignoring for argument sake.

[ddeclue]

99. Dead meat is dead meat... get over it.

[seabeyond]

112. and an ass is an ass. boy, that was fun. nt

[ddeclue]

138. doesn't really debunk the fact that dead meat is dead meat. You lose. nt

[GreenStormCloud]

118. What about the dozens of chicken carcasses in the meat display at the supermarket?

Do you shield your children's eyes when you walk past that section?

BTW - I am chewing on some barbequed shicken tenders as I type this.

[seabeyond]

126. again, beyond stupid argument. and i really dont care what you are eating.

[Codeine]

134. The only difference is that you get to pretend

that it isn't the same, that death and butchery wasn't part of the process. You get to divorce yourself from the ugliness of the murder of the animals you eat each day.

I respect hunters inasmuch as they are honest about what they do; they involve themselves in each step of the killing and dismembering of the animals they eat, while the DU "Don't Wanna See My Meat" crowd gets to shove double-handfuls of flesh down their throats and all the while blithely ignore the pain and death they've caused.

This doesn't apply to Mari, btw. As a vegetarian she's not being a hypocrite about the issue. If only some of the rest of you could be as honest.

[Seldona]

142. So vegetarians have no impact on the envirement or wild life?

:rofl:

Unless they are grazers, something is dying somewhere, or losing it's habitat, so they can eat their wheat grass burgers or whatever. Seems like there is plenty of cognitive dissonance to go around. Then again, on this issue, there always has been.

I guess because they cause less impact, they are morally superior? Seems to be the message to me.

[Codeine]

145. Of course we impact the environment.

All one can do is lessen one's impact. Vegetarianism is profoundly more environmentally sustainable than eating meat, but you already knew that.

There's nothing morally superior about it, btw. It's the choice that's right for me, just as biking to work rather than driving might be the right choice for someone else.

[XOKCowboy]

158. You da person Codeine! Always the voice of reason

You're speaking for me also as always. :hi:

[uppityperson]

172. True. Prepackagedmeat looks nothing like an animal so buyers can pretend it isn't.

They can buy pork and not have to consider that it came from a living pig. They can buy skinned boneless breasts and not have to consider the chickens that were raised in cages for 6 months before being killed, skinned and chopped into pieces.

Thing like crab are a bit more difficult to disquise but once shrimp are cooked, gutted, shelled, they look like "meat" and not "animal" so much.

[Codeine]

182. Thus the popularity of breaded shrimp.

You don't have any visual clue as to its animal origin.

[JonQ]

206. To all the hunters out there who kill animals for food, shame on you . .

[seabeyond]

219. again, wtf does that have to do with my post. i am not opposed to hunting

have hunters in my family, sons hunt with their father

can you keep pinning your agendas that you make up on me dude? do you not take any responsibility with any of your posts

every post you make, you make assumption. and they are always wrong. what is it that you are fine with being wrong EVERY time.

[JonQ]

231. You seem to see a significant difference

between dead animals in stores and dead animals outside of stores. I was making fun of the notion that store meat is anything other than a slaughtered, bled, and trimmed animal (but with saran wrap!).

[seabeyond]

233. yes. i see a difference between a package of meat and a dead animal hanging on a tree.

should we list all the differences between the two.

are you suggesting you do not see the many many differences of a package of meat and a WHOLE dead animal hanging on a tree?

[JonQ]

260. I really don't see a significant difference

both are butchered dead animals. Maybe you can pretend meat comes from some magical meat factory where no animals are harmed and it never had a face, but I know what actually goes on in processing plants so yeah, they are the same. Except to degree, the hunter was unlikely to butcher hundreds of animals per day.

[seabeyond]

268. if you do not see a significant difference dead animal hanging in tree adn package of meat in store

then you truly are a moran.

then again, from other posts of yours, i dont think truthiness is a big issue for you

[JonQ]

273. You don't seem to understand, or are unwilling to admit

where grocery store meat comes from. You seem to think there is some major disconnect between that and killing an animal. So I suppose to you there is a major difference. To those who are willing to think there is effectively no difference.

[seabeyond]

275. here is another example of false argument. can you be more ridiculous as to state

that i am unwilling to admit that meat comes from animals.

hm

you hit on the ONE commonality of a dead animal in the tree and package of meat in the grocery store.

now, want to name all the DIFFERENCES? since the beginning of conversation, to this very post of yours was about differences. not the one common part of the two.

or is this one too difficult for you to grasp. you seem to have a really tough time with logic

[JonQ]

277. Differences:

The deer was allowed to live it's life relatively freely prior to slaughter, the meat is healthier, fresher, and you can control for what's being done to it more easily. And if someone were to get "offended" by the meat section at the grocery store people would either laugh at them or tell them to walk around it (actually, most people are doing that here as well).

:rofl:

[ddeclue]

67. Then don't walk in front of his house during hunting season.

Problem solved.

[MineralMan]

93. Somehow I missed this.

These days, I don't hunt. I've given up that activity, primarily due to age and a dislike of hunting on public lands for safety reasons. I do fish. A lot. I rarely keep any of the fish I catch, though, and use tackle that allows safe release of the fish I catch.

As for a desire to not see things you consider unpleasant, that's a very poor argument against people's rights to do things. Hunting is, and has long been, a right in this country, as long as the game laws are followed. Not seeing dead animals, as far as I know, is not a right.

The right is always complaining about things they don't like to see. Gays holding hands or displaying affection. Abortion clinics. And so on. Those things bother them and they don't like to see them. How is that different?

[seabeyond]

215. my husband has progressed to where you are

we are looking for place to retire he can fish and fish. he loves it. and just as soon throw back

my post isnt about rights. or rules adn laws.

it is considering others. understanding some would be bothered by it and respecting it. i didnt know it was such a tough concept for some to realize that not all of us do well looking at dead animals. breaks my heart. makes me sad. dont like it. i dont hunt, i dont kill... anything. not in me. ok to those that want.

but that is me. i at least am not demanding yawl think like i do.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

194. I guess the OP knows not to walk toward that house during deer season now.

[JonQ]

205. So our primary responsibility is to not offend the sensibilities of others

even though it is legal and on your own property?

Well that's good to know. I certainly hope you feel the same way next time some fundy complains about a gay couple kissing on their own property but in plain view of The Children(tm).

I mean, sure it's legal, but not everyone is ok with that, some find it offensive even though it doesn't affect them in anyway, so why should that be tolerated? It's offensive, so ban it.

[seabeyond]

216. yes jonq, i consider others. has never been a sacrifice. has never been hard or a challenge for me

to consider other people

really

it has always been, and continues to be a pretty simple way for me to walk thru life.

[Go2Peace]

222. We don't want that touchy feely community idea of considering how others are affected. not in USA

I keep trying to explain to others on this board how our problems in this country are in our values. We are generally not a kind nor thoughtful nation of people. Until we do start to live life being kind and considerate to others we are going nowhere but downhill.

[seabeyond]

228. i agree wholeheartedly. and more than anything

i am really surprised by the attitude on this thread. been here forever. and still get surprised.

[JonQ]

232. Considering is one thing

making substantial changes to your life to accommodate the squeamishness of others is another thing entirely.

And you assume that this guy didn't consider others around him. It is entirely possible that he did, but had literally no other option for hanging up his deer. You made an assumption about this guy, that he was a selfish jerk, with no real evidence, probably because he's a hunter.

[seabeyond]

234. you FAIL jonq. nt

[JonQ]

258. What are you, 12?

[seabeyond]

235. btw... again, making an issue that isnt there. further, denying my comment to you already

ergo, purposely lying to make a point.

i dont have any issue with hunters. i have hunters in my family. my husband takes my sons hunting. now do tell

how many times will you accuse me of having an issue with hunters

on every hunting thread, i have backed hunters

another FAILURE on you part.

dont you get tired of always always being wrong

[JonQ]

259. Your sentiment was wrong

namely that this was some ignorant selfish hunter who never considered others and should have been prevented from acting in a legal manner because it offended some small minority, even though it was on his property.

I called you out and gave you the opportunity to correct yourself. You choose instead to get angry.

[seabeyond]

269. wow. another fantasy. all post i stand with hunter. you say i have problem with hunter, then you

win....

cause

i dont use the words you want me to use?

you cant be honest about anything, can you

[we can do it]

238. Well Meat = Death To Animals, Not Sure What the Problem Is Unless They're Vegans

[Mari333]

13. Its been 3 days

sorry darling, I dont like one law that says I cant have more then 6 inches of grass and another that hangs dead animals from trees,.

[GreenStormCloud]

17. Three days is rather odd. What has the daily temperature been?

To preserve the meat, deer need to be butcher quickly. Even in very cool weather it is wise not to waste time.

[Mari333]

37. in the 50s

[Lasher]

77. I wouldn't leave a deer hanging for three days in the 50s.

There is a school of thought about aging venison by hanging it for one to seven days, but I don't subscribe to it. I get the meat butchered and in the freezer as soon as possible. However venison can be left hanging up to a week if the temperature does not at any time get above 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

This is troubling. I hate to see food wasted, particularly when it's wild game.

[MineralMan]

45. Well, it's not how I'd do it, but some hunters hang their meat

for a couple of days. They think it improves the flavor. I disagree, but it's a matter of taste, I suppose.

[undeterred]

103. Hunters should hang their meat somewhere private

where the public doesn't have to see it.

[Codeine]

148. Honestly,

the guy may not have anywhere for that. Some people don't have backyard trees, and garages have a tendency to be full to the brim with rubbish.

[MineralMan]

151. Perhaps they could find a closet, then.

Sheesh!

[janx]

224. Do you think this thread will get as many responses as the kid-

on-the-airplane thread? ;-)

[vadawg]

217. yup i like to hang my meat for a few days, especially game birds as i think it improves the meat

so i wouldnt think 3 days is to much unless it was 80 degrees outside...

[Kali]

82. 3 days?!

I find that hard to believe.

[Codeine]

154. Aging game isn't all that uncommon,

although it's becoming less so in the modern era. It's probably a bit dangerous, but no more than eating the meat that comes from a modern factory farm. Those places are disease incubators.

[JonQ]

208. A steak you buy get in a good restaurant has been aged 3 weeks

minimum. Although at 50 degrees that is a bit warm

[Kali]

218. you can age beef, other meats not so much

would not want to eat 3 week old unsmoked pork or poultry. I have no idea about game, just thought it needed to be cut/frozen pretty fast.

[JonQ]

230. I'm pretty sure red meats can be aged

venison included.

Interestingly enough in asia fresh beef is considered the ideal form, so they often slaughter and serve on the same day (in expensive steak houses at least).

The high degree of marbling and lack of aging give it a very unique texture.

[vadawg]

241. when you deal with pheasants, duck and goose they taste much better aged

sometimes for many months, i remember pheasants hung by the head until the body and head seperated, mmmmmm mmmmm mmmmmm tastes much better than the fresh cooked bird..

[Goblinmonger]

171. Kind of hard to mind your own business

when someone else's business is put right in your face.

[seabeyond]

9. i know du are big fans of NOT thinking about the child, but damn mari, if walking

with my little kids and htey had to see this, .... meltdown and i wuold feel really bad for them. not to mention myself. i cannot stand such gruesomeness. so surprising that people would feel this is acceptable for many different reasons

i can respect someones want to hunt. but like other things in this world, though i dont tell them not to do, i and children should not be forced to participate

[Kali]

84. your children would likely react more because of your "meltdown"

than the objective view of the deer. Kids are naturally curious. If they haven't already been influenced that something is scary or gross most kids would just be curious. Are you saying you never poked a dead animal with a stick?

Man, I was always curious about things in nature, dead animals being a treasure of info and fascinating observations!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

105. The first time I saw a dead deer I was alone in my neighbors' yard & it upset me to the point that

I can never forget it. I didn't need my parents around me melting down to realize at age 6 how awful it was. Such beauty murdered.

[Kali]

110. I suspect by age 6 you had absorbed some influence.

Although of course there are exceptional children that seem so unlike the families they were raised in as to make one wonder if they were dropped from another universe. My comment was aimed more to the average kid/situation.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

186. I was born into a family with pets.

My best friend and protector was our family Boxer. Taffy, who guarded my crib when I was a baby, and I grew up, learning by example that the animals that shared our home/life were as much a part of the family as anyone else was.

In other ways though I do believe that I was dropped from another Universe in regard to my family! :rofl:

[seabeyond]

199. we lived on farm. my father killed the chicken we ate, old days. i was about 3, turned the

corner adn saw father wring a couple chickens neck. stopped me in my tracks. from what i am told, i stayed away from father a couple weeks. look at him differently. and was sad for all.

not a memory i have, but... it effected me then. dad was sorry i saw. mom tried to keep me in front of house. they were aware of the possibility it might be upsetting to a little one.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

278. Clearly you aren't any the worse for wear. I've seen lots of things I can't forget.

It's just part of life.

[Codeine]

135. I saw an enormous number of dead animals

growing up in Wyoming. Sometimes I felt a little sad looking into the eyes of a dead deer or antelope after we shot it, but never "melted down" despite being a very sensitive child. And because the reality of meat - the reality of ending a life for no reason other than a desire for a particular taste - was never hidden from me I became a vegan as soon as I was able to make my own food-buying decisions.

Sometimes I think that's why parents don't want kids to see this stuff -- they don't want them making informed ethical decisions about the impact their food has on the lives of animals around them. They want their kids to believe that a burger wasn't a living, breathing, feeling cow hung up and slaughtered just like these deer.

[Kali]

185. I don't know.

I can sure see why adults don't want to see it - most of us have been divorced from food sources for 3 generations now. Add to it the last generation or two being raised by teevee and the Disnfication of nature. The people you seem to be talking about that don't give much thought to where they get their food probably don't even think about "protecting" their kids from it - they simply don't think about it at all.

Lots of kids for plenty of history (and I'm talking prehistory/evolution here) have seen and participated in the hunt or butchering of domestic animals - not that many turn away from meat. That seems to be a much more recent phenomenon.

And some view it as sustenance, not just flavor.

[seabeyond]

198. when my kids were young, dead made them sad. odd as that may seem to you. nt

[Kali]

242. is sad harmful?

I would think feeling sad at the thought of death would mostly be a good thing. Does feeling sad exclude curiosity? I can be sad at the loss of a pet yet still interested in the biological reasons for it. Killing an animal is not fun for me but I can do it. Once dead, the body and its workings are interesting to me. I think most kids (people?) are curious about things like that.

Maybe I'm the weird one, but when I was growing up even the squealing girls didn't run far from the roadkill exams...everybody wanted to see.

[seabeyond]

246. age appropriate. wide range of age, with what will do what to a child and reaction of child.

when using harmful, i am not talking about psychological breakdown, forever have to deal with. momentarily, and in the scheme of things in a lifetime, momentary is just that.

i dont look at dead anything now, anymore than i did then. no, i do not have a curiousity. was surprised soph biology how much i enjoyed dissecting, but then i was 14 too. still dont like to see dead.

a 1, 2, 3, 4 yr old walking down the street probably will not have the instinct of curiousity, but a real pain seeing the cruelty of (and i am not saying a bad way. would be one to set and talk with little one, explaining as part of life). probably will end up with a couple days or more sadness, or not wanting to be alone or challenge sleeping, (when closing eyes, seeing it again). unless that child is accustomed to it. many people do not experience dead deer. so walking up on it, yes, ... can be "harmful", not the end of the world.

i think it is kinda mean to do to little kids, but so many on this board think we ought to have little adults at 1.... all world lesson learned immediately without allowing the time to learn them, and age appropriately.

i lived on the farm, and as much as my brothers demanded i toughen up, and not be so prissy, i never did. not who i was. reaching 50 and brother still has conversation about why i would not accept certain things living on a farm. i finally told him... not who i was, am or will be, suck it up. not all of us are the same and cannot force certain behaviors on all.

sad at death is a normal thing. and no, i do not believe it is an automatic curiosity to that death. many would shun and turn away, not walk to.

[Codeine]

131. I think children should ABSOLUTELY have to see this.

Why hide the reality of meat from them? Children have seen dead animals hung for butchering since before the dawn of civilization and they've managed to cope; why on Earth do we believe they are no longer capable of dealing with that?

I don't eat meat, but damned if I think we need to shield ourselves from reality and pretend meat is something that magically appears in the grocery store wrapped in cellophane and ready to cook.

Every bit of meat you eat starts out as a carcass hanging from a hook, much like these little Bambis.

Deal with it.

[MineralMan]

153. Yup. I wrote earlier about a 6th grade field trip to a slaughterhouse

I went on. I can't imagine a school doing that today. They should.

[uppityperson]

173. Thank you and I totally agree. nt

[cali]

10. where do you live where you can't have bergamot

growing in yard or keep chickens?

[Mari333]

14. small town in michigan

tourist town in the summers.

[cali]

18. wow.

I have to say, I also find it disconcerting to see deer hung in town. Pretty common sight where I live. And I don't oppose hunting at all.

[Mari333]

24. I suppose I wouldnt take such issue with it

but the other laws on the books here are so ridiculously strict about how we must keep our yards.

[Lasher]

78. I am a hunter.

But I say in this context you have a valid point.

[uppityperson]

174. The problem is the rules are so different? Sounds like something to bring up at

a meeting. Having grass no longer than 6 inches, no lawn ornaments, chickens or bergamot seems a bit strict. Maybe you can work towards getting those changed.

[Kaleva]

267. I can see your point. Grass can only be so high but one can hang deer in yard.

Nobody probably has complained about hanging dressed deer in the yard so there is no ordinance against it.

[MineralMan]

57. So you live in a small town in Michigan?

For pete's sake...people in small towns in Michigan hunt. It's very popular in Michigan. I'm surprised you've only encountered one house with deer hanging from a tree. It must be very early in the season.

Expect to see more this weekend.

[Barack_America]

90. People in small towns in Michigan would like to decorate their yards too...

...but it seems that animal carcasses are acceptable decoration whereas garden gnomes are not?

:shrug:

I believe the hypocrisy of local ordinances regarding what one is and is not allowed to display in one's yard is the issue of the OP.

[MineralMan]

95. Actually, I didn't see the OP discussing garden gnomes at all.

There was a discussion of grass over 6" long and weeds. Most jurisdictions I know about prohibit overgrown yards. They harbor vermin. But, I didn't see anything about garden gnomes in the OP. Perhaps garden gnomes are prohibited where you live. I don't know.

Personally, I have two of those metal trolls in my yard, carrying off a garden gnome, which tells you something about my opinion of garden gnomes. However, I do strongly support the right to display pink flamingos in yards.

[Barack_America]

96. You obviously don't consider garden gnomes "pretty lawn ornaments"!

:rofl:

Great sculpture.

[MineralMan]

97. Apparently, garden gnomes are "purdy good eating"

though. If you're a metal sculpture, that is.

You can buy the little fellows at most garden centers and from several catalogs. A little spendy, but worth it.

I've been thinking, lately, about installing a full-sized Virgin Mary grotto in my front yard. We have lots of devout Catholics in the neighborhood, so they'd probably appreciate it. It could go right next to my Buddha garden.

[Barack_America]

100. There was a spectacular Virgin Mary grotto on my bus route during middle school.

Mary's grotto was about 2 feet high, I'd say, and surrounded by several life-size plaster chickens. So Mary ended up being only slightly taller than the chicken friends she appeared to be blessing. It was a spectacular display that I looked forward to seeing on a daily basis, though probably not for the reasons the homeowner intended!

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

There were a lot of them in my home town,

which was about 40% hispanic. One house actually had one with a life-size Holy Virgin. No plaster chickens, though. They had real, live chickens in the yard. Very tasteful, too. Err...I mean tasty.

[ddeclue]

141. Is it garden gnome season or plastic flamingo season? I can never keep it straight..

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

149. It depends on what part of the country you're in.

In Florida, California, and the southern states, the flamingos are in season year round. However, they do not appreciate cold weather, and should be taken indoors in the winter in states where it snows.

Garden Gnomes, on the other hand, may be used in all weather. If it gets too cold or hot, they simply retreat into their little cottages built into the trunks of trees. They're very clever, those gnomes. They disguise the entrances to their homes so well, you'd never notice them.

Sadly, however, gnome predators are on the increase, as you can see in the photo I posted. That has caused the demise of many garden gnomes, so they're seen less frequently these days.

[uppityperson]

175. Those are wonderful. Did you make them or where did you get them?

[janx]

227. Mari, how long have you lived in Michigan?

:shrug:

[Recursion]

11. It's stupid. That said...

...I'm actually for just about any activity that makes people confront where their food comes from.

(And, yes, letting you have chickens would be even better at that, I agree...)

[noamnety]

21. Same here.

We don't expect stores to hide their butcher departments like porn magazines.

I don't support requiring hunters to hide the process, and I don't support laws that have the effect of preventing people in urban areas from acquiring their own food, whether that means hunting (with all it entails), or growing veggies in their front yard.

Bottom line - it's more environmentally friendly and responsible to hunt your own deer than to get meat from chain stores and massive slaughter houses, and our laws should be written in ways that support the environmentally friendly option.

I'm not a hunter - I've never been in a household that owned a gun even. But why anyone on DU would try to encourage ordinances to pressure people to use factory farming and mass slaughterhouses instead of hunting is beyond me.

Sometimes we need to get over our delicate sensibilities as Americans, and think about what's right in the larger sense.

[varelse]

144. Yet it's ok if the same HOA or town council issues a ban on home-grown chickens or tomatoes?

:shrug:

The OP's point doesn't seem to be taken by many of the respondents here.

[noamnety]

157. Not sure if you thought I was implying that.

HOA laws that encourage or require residents to do things that are environmentally unfriendly for the sake of "appearances" should be illegal, as I argued in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7047288#7052963

Growing your own chickens (with possible exceptions for roosters and noise issues), growing your own veggies, and doing other things that are environmentally more friendly than contracting out those services to factory farming and corporate control should be encouraged, not prohibited.

I think she should go to the council and argue FOR overturning the ban on raising chickens. I think she should go to the council and argue for overturning the ban on grasses over 6 inches tall because it's environmentally unsound to require compulsive mowing. (I can't speak to the plant restrictions because I don't know which are classified as invasive in her area.)

I don't think she should go try to ban butchering your own meat because she doesn't like a restriction on chickens or lawns. I'm not seeing that logical connection.

[varelse]

189. While Mari did mention that she would bring this issue up at the next city council meeting

I can't find any statement from her that she plans to advocate a ban on butchering game on private property. I assumed she'd be mentioning the ridiculousness of banning other completely legitimate activities such as raising chickens or growing wildflowers instead of having a lawn. That's what I'd do if confronted with a similar situation. Luckily I live in Santa Cruz, and not in an HOA-governed property, so such a confrontation is highly unlikely.

[DeschutesRiver]

163. No it isn't okay, and the OP should focus on having those bans removed

and use the example of the legality of hanging your deer carcasses as a counterpoint. Otherwise, I don't see a problem with some person legally hanging a carcass on his or her own property - I'd figure it was so f'g not my business, esp. when this clearly wasn't about some sporting/trophy dude (just my personal thing I don't care for) but someone who is choosing to get cheaper food for the family and being more authentic and personal about it than the average joe who just shows up with a hand outstretched at Safeway picking through styrofoam containers of god knows what it is/where it came from in the meat department.

The idea that a deer carcass being hung to age to provide a family with food is somehow offensive to the sensibilties is something with which I don't agree. I spent a boatload of time in places like Paris and London, and all the freak over Italy, and it was in towns there that things were hanging a plenty. Vension carcasses, furry bunny rabbits, pheasants, ducks, really all manner of wild game was there displayed in this fashion by the vendors I think to make the point that the buyer was getting freshly harvested meat or fowl. As I recall, if this kind of thing offended my sensibilities, I would have to leave the fun parts of downtown Paris because there was something dead hanging on display in tiny markets just about everywhere I stayed. Yes, this wasn't all of Paris, but the point is that it wasn't a rural area either, and for them, it was the norm. Everytime I turn on a cooking show there is some european, or asian market place with dead things for sale hanging in all their glory. For that matter here in the US, any time I visit the chinese sections of several major cities I walk by lots of this stuff hanging, forgot about that.

I'd be for going more european on this - banning the plastic wrapped packages of old and artifically reddened meats and tough old fowl in favor of having fresh air markets year round with dead stuff hanging so that store bought meat wasn't able to be disguised as tasty stuff when it is crap. Make aging meat at home legal, along with that the right to farm law for urban dwellers even if you only own a very small space. There is no difference between your neighbor's dead deer carcass and the stuff in the packages at the store; nor is there any difference between a plot of tomatoes and corn in your front yard and someone else's prized rows of roses there.

The dead deer I'd find way less offensive than say multiple parted out cars up on blocks, or dogs left lonely on a chain or in douchebags muddy back yard without shelter from the elements, and on and on - for me, there are way more things out there that disturb me to see, and they are all legal too.

[varelse]

191. I agree, with reservations

there are some locales where hanging game in an exposed area could attract dangerous or pestilential attention - say where there happen to be grizzly bears living nearby or feral dogs running loose. Even flies or rats attracted to the carcasses or the blood draining onto the ground beneath them, in warmer weather, could pose a threat to public health or safety. In this case, there don't seem to be any threats from animal pests. However, if the deer are there long enough, they will start to decay and this would be very unpleasant for nearby neighbors.

[DeschutesRiver]

245. That is a really good point you make

I live so remotely that if we hung a deer to age here in the open, well, it wouldn't bother anyone because our nearest neighbor is over 2 miles away. But we'd likely have a bear or cougar out there munching by morning, and I am sure the horses would strangle us for this.

Out here, hunting season is late enough that you'd be hanging them in cold weather. Actually, if it was for some reason unseasonably warm in the fall when the hunting season started, a person would be a fool to hang out a carcass, as it would rot and be unusable. Usually, if hunters here feel it isn't cold enough, they just take their kills to the local slaughter house to hang in their cold freezers. We no longer hunt, but even when we have the mobile slaughter out for our beef cattle, we have to consider weather. The guy comes and kills them right here, and immediately removes the hide, hangs them inside the truck and takes them right back to the shop. And if it is too warm, he tells us we'd better wait for a cooler early morning to ensure that the carcass won't be stuck in his truck for too long that day.

But taking your harvest to someone like that costs money, as does the cut and wrap, and some prefer to wait to hunt until they can hang it, then cut and wrap themselves because otherwise, they can't afford to do it, and meat becomes a once a week/month splurge via the grocery store pickings.

[Viking12]

15. Really? That's the most important issue the City Council needs to address?

Busy body much?

[Mari333]

16. ad hominems. how quaint.

[Viking12]

22. Do you even know what an ad hom is?

listen to yourself, you sound exactly like fundie, "I don't mind if people are gay, but my poor kids shouldn't be exposed to it." I feel sorry for your kids if you really think you need to shelter them so.

[cali]

19. Excuse me? what the fuck do you think the council is for, if not for issues

that concern citizens? what a stupid comment, busybody.

[Viking12]

26. Having to see a dead deer is an 'issue"? really?

Concerned about what?

[Mari333]

32. for me, it is, personally, yes.

but for some it isnt. I accept that.
but the people here who make the laws about what goes on in our yards are insane.
cannot grow grass over 6 inches.
no wild plants in yards (they have a list)

but dead deer, no problem.
Thats why I will take it up with the city council.
Im just curious as to why.

[Viking12]

35. Are you going to ask them to make the meat counter at the grocery stroe adults only too?

[Kali]

23. nothing wrong with children seeing that

depending on the reaction of the adults around them they may come away with one of several points of view:

1) if the adults have an attitude similar to yours it may reinforce a revulsion for the action and thus "convert" them to that viewpoint.

2) another possibility might be to laugh and joke and engender a disrespect for the process and the place of humans in nature

3) (my preference) respectful learning of traditional skills, where some food comes from, a bit of ecology, and anatomy/biology.

[ddeclue]

49. +1 n/t

[MineralMan]

76. I grew up in a small town in California in the 1950s.

When I was in sixth grade, we took a field trip to the local slaughterhouse, where we got to watch beef cattle being processed. With just a couple of exceptions, all the kids were fascinated. I guess we didn't know we were supposed to be upset.

After the slaughterhouse tour, we had hamburgers for lunch at a local restaurant. Kids react as their parents expect them to react. Nobody told us how horrid it was to process animals for food, so we reacted with interest in the process.

I will say that a couple of kids barfed. But, then, a couple of kids barfed pretty much once a week in the classroom, too.

[MineralMan]

150. Many years ago, when I was a poor college student,

I used to bow fish for sharks in the little bay near my house. I ate the things until I could no longer stand the taste of shark. Anyhow, the sharks in the bay reached sizes up to 6 feet. When I'd return from fishing with the catch, I'd butcher the sharks on an old table in my yard.

Invariably, a crowd of children would come over to watch, along with every cat in the neighborhood. So, I turned it into a biology lesson, basically dissecting the sharks for the kids, naming the organs, etc. The fascination was universal. The sharks in the bay were live-bearers, and the time when they could be hunted was during the season when they came into the bay's backwaters to give birth to their young.

Most of the time, the females had almost completely developed young in them, complete with a transparent egg, yolk, and blood vessels through an umbilical cord of sorts to the young. This was the most fascinating thing for the kids, along with the stomach contents of the shark. A couple of the kids would always want one of these, still in it's transparent egg sac, to take to school for show and tell.

Lots of "Eeeews!" of course, but always from kids who were crowded in to watch the process.

Children aren't automatically repulsed by such things. In fact, I never saw a kid who was during all those sessions. And they'd keep coming back, each time I brought sharks home. The crowd grew, as they told their friends what was going on.

[Codeine]

156. I grew up seeing many animals shot and slaughtered.

I saw the rabbits we raised killed and cut up. I ate all the meat that resulted from these activities and I was not scarred or made to melt down, nor did I become a bloodthirsty carnivore. I just gained a very informed and honest understanding of where meat comes from.

That's why I don't eat it anymore. ;)

[RB TexLa]

27. I saw dead chickens, pigs, cows, fish, shrimp and turkeys in town, all lined up

processed, packaged and ready for sale. What's the problem?

[ddeclue]

60. OK which of you bastards killed this lobster and wrapped him up in a plastic package like that?

:rofl:

At least a deer has a fighting chance to run away.. all those poor plants are trapped by their roots..poor corn on the cob.. poor tomatoes.. and not only are you killing them, you're eating their unborn offspring too...that's what most fruits and vegetables are after all.. the plant's offspring.

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

28. Is the tree in the front yard or back?

A lot of people hang deer in their garage in preparation for skinning and butchering. Some people hang them from tree limbs. In either case, the deer will be gone as soon as the processing is done. Walk a different route until then.

[Mari333]

33. front. huge tree

[MineralMan]

41. The deer will be gone shortly. I'm sorry, but deer need to be skinned

and quartered. Hanging is how you do it. I've seen half a dozen deer hanging from trees here in my neighborhood in the City of Saint Paul. People hunt. People who hunt have to process the carcasses. There it is.

You're a vegetarian, and I respect that. Your neighbor is not, and hunts for meat. You could respect that, as well. Find a different walking route today, or avert your eyes. What he's doing is perfectly legal and proper.

Of course, if it were me, I'd stop and ask about his hunt, as I have done with a couple of hanging deer in my neighborhood.

[GreenStormCloud]

54. +1 N/T

[seabeyond]

55. all the hunters i know, husband included, dont bring the dead animal home to dress

they do it where they kill it.

i have never seen a dead animal hanging from tree. i have never known anyone bring it home to do. i live with hunters

[MineralMan]

63. Hmm...

If you have a serious camp set up, it's pretty easy to skin and quarter a deer in the field. In a lot of cases, though, particularly in the midwest, the hunting takes place not far from home, so no camp is involved.

The deer is field-dressed at the site of the kill, but then loaded up and brought home at the end of the day. In some cases, where the carcass is to be donated to one of the fine organizations who process meat for distribution to the needy, the skin must be left on or they won't take it. That's the law in Minnesota.

I live within the city limits of Saint Paul. There are hunting spots less than an hour's drive from my home, both on public and private land. As I said, there have been deer hanging from trees around the neighborhood since the beginning of hunting season.

Different places, different situations. If you day hunt close to home, you load the field-dressed carcass up and bring it home for processing. If you travel far to hunt, it's a different story. I hunted in Wyoming one year. We field-dressed the deer and pronghorns, then hung them in camp and skinned them there. Then, we took them to the nearest town, where they were butchered by a pro, flash frozen, and packed in dry ice for taking home...a two day drive.

One of our pickups had a chest freezer in the back. The meat was loaded into it and the freezer got plugged in at the motel we stayed at at night. The dry ice keep the meat frozen during the day. My brother flew there, so his meat was packed in dry ice in Styrofoam cooler boxes and taken on the plane as luggage.

Different hunting situations; different methods.

[seabeyond]

70. could be the difference. but then op lives in midwest and doesnt seem

like it is a normal occurence for her to see.

[GreenStormCloud]

121. Does he have trees in his back yard that are big enough?

Is the front yard tree the only one that will do?

[Warren Stupidity]

30. The meat section of the super market grosses me out

but since I was a small child I have accepted the reality that most of my peers eat dead animals and that dead animals are on display in markets, on tables, and every now and then in somebody's yard.

[DU GrovelBot]

31. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[ddeclue]

270. Please donate to Grovelbot so he can afford to buy a hunting license for deer season.

:D

[arcadian]

42. I better not see an hunter trying to kill the deer in our backyard.

I suppose I could shoot them and claim castle defense.

[MineralMan]

52. We have deer in our neighborhood.

Since hunting or even discharging a firearm is illegal in the city of Saint Paul, the deer go unmolested, for the most part. They're a nuisance, and are quite tame. The ones that visit my mother-in-law's house will take apples from your hand.

No predation; no fear.

That said, they cause a heckuva lot of vehicle accidents in the city.

[ddeclue]

53. Let's see.. deer rifle with scope vs. guy with handgun...

My money is on the rifle guy..

[arcadian]

61. Yeah right, your money is on some fat, beer swilling idiot, who does't know the property.

You'd lose that bet.

[ddeclue]

62. Good luck on that one... my money's still on the guy with the scoped rifle.

[arcadian]

65. What is this? Fantasyland Saturday morning?

That's hilarious, you just want to see me get shot, it has nothing to do with anything else. Bloodlust much?

[ddeclue]

73. No it has to do with people who want to get themselves shot

which apparently is you.

If you want to see someone with "bloodlust" look in the mirror friend.

[arcadian]

129. Are you an advocate for "castle laws"?

Hunters don't have free reign over th countryside, they can't simply wander on to private property with a loaded weapon though many of them do, disregarding the law.

[ddeclue]

167. No I'm not... I'm just pointing out the craziness in shooting at someone holding a sniper

rifle while you're holding a hand gun.

It's in the line of don't bring a knife to a gunfight..

[cherokeeprogressive]

155. #1, No hunter I know would hunt on private property without permission.

#2, my Pop, when he was still hunting (he's 73 now) would walk for miles and miles during a day of hunting. In my 20's and 30's, I had trouble keeping up with him. #3, as you were told before, a high-powered rifle with a scope can reach out and touch its target from distances up to 400 yards in the hands of the right person. How you think your handgun, with which you might (I stress might) be able to hit the side of a barn at a hundred yards could protect you is beyond me, and comical in its naivete.

Neither my Pop, nor anyone he used to hunt with, me included, could be called a "fat, beer swilling idiot".

And last, "know the property" or not, you'd not sneak within earshot of any hunter I've ever known.

[arcadian]

168. You presume a lot

You shouldn't do that.

[uppityperson]

180. only if it were trying to break into your shed or steal your lawnmower

sorry

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

195. I was right I have just missed much of your work.

This is even dumber than your last post.

[eShirl]

43. growing up in a rural area w/ lot's of local hunters, I NEVER saw deer hanging from

a front yard tree, and never saw one hanging BY THE NECK, indoors or outdoors. They were always hung by the hind legs.

Wondering if that detail (hanging by the neck from a front yard tree) was supposed to be some kind of visual message?

[GreenPartyVoter]

51. I've often seen them in front and side yard trees, but hanging by the hind legs like you said.

[MineralMan]

74. Most hunters hang deer from the rear legs, but not all

I did a image search for "deer hanging" on Google, and the photos ran about 4 to 1 with the deer hung by the back legs. Most of the deer hung the other direction were hung from the antlers.

It wouldn't really matter, in terms of anything, which way you did it, I suppose. Some do it one way; others do it the other, but the majority hang from the rear legs.

[eShirl]

127. I think the reason was to let the blood drain out the neck - with the head removed.

Seems like that would be the best way to do it.

[seabeyond]

56. i havent either. people say this is a normal occurance. never seen it. nt

[Retired AF Dem]

44. Damn Mari you do live in Michigan

If not the deer hunting capital of the US it should be, you should be use to this by now. The twenty years I was stationed in Germany it was not uncommon to see boar hanging in tress or garages with open doors waiting to be cleaned.

[liberal N proud]

64. Town and city governments are insane

[fishnfla]

69. awesome, how many points on their racks?

[Stinky The Clown]

79. This thread is an amazing study in the intractability of views and the lack of discussion on an ....

...... internet discussion site.

Lots of snark.

Not much discussion.

[MineralMan]

80. Some people are trying to discuss things.

So, what's your input on the issue of hunters hanging their game in the yard for processing? I'd be happy to discuss that with you.

[Stinky The Clown]

81. I don't have an opinion that matters

That's why I didn't comment on it.

I commented on the lack of discussion.

I didn't comment on you.

I'm sure you'd be happy to discuss it with me because you think I'm opposed to it. Now circle back to the title of this post.

[MineralMan]

83. Actually, I have no idea what your opinion might be.

Why would I? I don't know you at all.

Several people in this thread, including myself, have explained why someone might hang a deer from a tree in their yard. There has been considerable discussion of the issue.

Of course, some folks have just chimed in without even holding an opinion at all on it. I'm not sure how that adds to the discussion, either.

[Warren Stupidity]

114. Actually your comment was in line with your comment

as is mine.

[Lorien]

85. Yeah, that would piss me off too

Big time. I fucking HATE hunting. Too many deer? We outnumber all of them by an ungodly amount and do a million times greater damage to the natural world, but I don't advocate the slaughter of humans! And yes, I am a vegetarian who does not wear leather shoes. I'm sick of the Far Right's "rights" mattering more than anyone else's.
(I already know the blahblahblah about hunting, "animals are tasty" and all those other charming Sarah Palin quotes. So dont start).

[MineralMan]

91. OK, you hate hunting. I get that.

However, it is not right-wingers who are the only hunters. We have many hunters here on DU, and way more people who eat meat than do not.

I think it's interesting that you don't want to hear from anyone who doesn't agree with you on the subject. That makes for a poor discussion, I think.

So, let me ask you a couple of questions: If you could end hunting with a stroke of the pen, would you? If you could eliminate the consumption of meat by law, would you?

The answers to those questions will be very interesting to me and to other progressives.

[GreenStormCloud]

122. So you prefer that deer die a slow suffering death due to starvation due to overpopulation?

How very caring of you. /sarcasm

[Codeine]

132. Not all hunters are right wing.

There are hunters from every part of the political spectrum, included not a few here at DU.

I'm a vegan, but I recognize that society isn't going to fall in line with my ethical views about animals any time soon. And honestly, a deer that spends a few years out in the wild doing deer stuff with other deer, eating grass and enjoying the sun and fresh air before a sudden, quick death has led a life about a trillion times better than any factory-farmed cow or pig has.

And with the death of most of the apex predators in our ecosystem the sad fact is that hunting is necessary. Without it starvation is a very real fate for many of these animals.

[NRaleighLiberal]

89. In our North Raleigh neighborhood, they are not in trees....smushed at roadside

killed by cars. We are overrun with the little bambis.

[Pavulon]

165. Yep. Lots of deer strikes this time of year in NC.

They are tasty and a reasonable hunting season can keep the numbers down.

[Barack_America]

92. Mari, why don't you string up some gnomes or pink flamingos from your tree.

I'd love to hear what the enforcers of acceptable lawn decoration would have to say about that.

[dana_b]

98. haha! she'd probaby be arrested n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

106. Best reply on the thread.

Stringing up pink flamingos would be easiest.

[csziggy]

254. No - do this as a Christmas display

(Emailed to me as "redneck Christmas lights")

[MorningGlow]

101. Nasty!

Sorry you have to go through that, Mari. The same thing happened to me last year--dude hung up a deer in his front yard (in a tree) instead of in the garage or in the back yard. On a main road in the next village over from mine. I got the distinct impression that it wasn't because it was the only place he could bleed the deer; I got the feeling he was showing off ("Look what I got everybody!")
:puke:

I went home another way for the next week or so.

[undeterred]

102. A child might think they were Santa's reindeer.

I'm not against hunting, but that's just not right.

[janx]

104. Stop it!

:rofl:

[Barack_America]

107. Hmm, public taxidermy as part of the War on Christmas?

Intriguing idea.

[ddeclue]

139. Santa uses Fedex and UPS these days anyways...

:rofl:

[dionysus]

109. were the deer also smoking cigs?

[TransitJohn]

111. Why do you stare at your neighbor's food

and complain?:shrug:

It's so much nicer when it's all done at the factory slaughter houses, and delivered saran-wrapped in the cooler at Safeway, I guess.

[LWolf]

113. Apparently there is no tree in the back yard

to hang them from?

Or beam in the garage?

I certainly agree about all the rest of the regulations you mention.

I can see a hunter who knows how not wanting to pay $$$ to have a butcher do a job he can do himself.

It certainly seems like he could do it privately, though.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can or should legislate courtesy or good taste.

Edited to add:

I live in rural deer-hunting paradise. We have people who live in town, and people who live out of town. Seeing a deer strapped to the back of a truck is not uncommon during hunting season, as people bring their kills in from the forest. I've NEVER seen anyone, rural or in town, hang their deer to butcher out in front of a public street.

A few years back, I was on a field trip with my students during hunting season. Our bus got stopped because of a log spill up ahead on the rural 2-lane highway through the national forest we were traveling. While we were waiting, we noticed a large buck standing at the tree line on the side of the road. Just as we noticed him, a car coming up behind us screeched to a stop and a guy with a rifle got out and aimed over the hood of his car. Several of my students immediately stuck their heads out the bus window and yelled, "Hey, idiot! Street hunting is illegal, and we've got your license plate."

Many of my students hunt with their families. A few help butcher them, as well. I've never heard them talk about hanging their deer in the front yard on a public street to do so.

[dysfunctional press]

117. so- walk your dogs and/or look in a different direction.

the guy has a right to use his property as he sees fit, as long as it's legal.

[rvablue]

119. If those are indeed the laws in your town, re: the kind of tickets you can get, then you

should start a recall effort to boot every single person from the city council.

I've never heard of something so ridiculous in my life.

[Go2Peace]

204. A lot of towns are like that. Lived in many places and many suburbs had such laws

[proteus_lives]

120. They'll be gone shortly.

Still, go over to your neighbors and complain. You may get some venison steaks out of it.

[spanone]

123. the kill defenders are out in force...good luck mari333

[MineralMan]

128. Kill defenders?

That's an odd way to describe the vast majority of people who eat meat. Anyone who eats meat participates in the killing, hanging, and butchering of animals. Humans have been eating meat, when they could get it, since there were humans.

I realize that you don't like that fact, but there it is. You will have little success in convincing people to do what you want by calling them names. That's a losing strategy, and all it accomplishes is to make people shake their heads at the effrontery of it.

If you want to convert people to a vegetarian diet, the way is not to call them killers or "kill defenders." It's to show them, in a positive way, that a vegetarian diet is better for them. While that's a tough sell, it's better than snide name-calling.

[seabeyond]

183. i have been around lots of hunters and never hear them adopt attitudes like people

on thread above. i can feel the pumpin chest and grabbing balls to make sure they are still there.

the men i am around that hunt dont need to check they still have balls i guess

[boomerbust]

136. Suggestion

Ask your neighbor for a pound of backstrap from said deer and throw em on the grill for your kids to eat. Some of the finest tasting protein the Lord put on this earth to enjoy.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

161. she doesn't say anything about being a vegetarian in her op...

so don't be one yourself.

as far as the poster would have known, the op has normal eating habits.

[Codeine]

170. Fair enough.

Snarky thread makes me snarky poster. Apologies all around.

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

193. Hardcore.

Straight to the good stuff!

[ddeclue]

140. You know I bet the dogs were thinking: Why can't WE get some of that?

:D

[Nikki Stone1]

143. So the Sarah Palin book tour has hit your town.

:)

[Codeine]

147. . . .

:spray:

[uppityperson]

160. I'd be more upset at the other cc&r's you wrote of

"we cannot have our grass grow over 6 inches or we get a ticket.
we cannot have pretty lawn ornaments gracing our parkways or we get a ticket.
we cannot have live chickens or goats or we get a ticket.
we cannot allow wild bergamot or pokeweed to grow in yards or we get a ticket."

I know some people like to live that way, but I would not ever want to do so or be able to do so.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

162. My son got his buck on Sunday last, it was at the butchers within 24 hours.

These bucks by you have been hanging 3 days with 50 degree temps?! Skanky. Yuck. Stink.

My neighbor does not have a garage, so sometimes his tree is sporting a buck. But never for three freaken warm days. badbadbad.

Northern Michigan is my location.

[vadawg]

223. i dont know about this guy, but a lot of people like to hang their meat to age

so three days dosent seem to long unless it was 80 degrees outside, the only animals i wouldnt age would be rabbits, some birds and some of the smaller mammals...

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

255. Rabbit wouldn't have a chance to age in my kitchen. Red sauce and Polenta time!

No partridges this year, no rabbit for many. snif.

Meat should be refrigerated to age, I should think. Rot happens fast above 40 degrees.

[vadawg]

274. depends, we never had refridgeration when we did it, so the youngsters had to keep the flies off of

the meat, and stuf like pheasants would be hung in the open until the head parted, makes me hungry to just think about it...

[Dead_Parrot]

166. Might just have been a stag party...

:hide:

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

176. DUzy!

[Paladin]

177. Responsible Hunters Don't Display Their Game That Way.

Any hunter with even half a brain cell working takes care of the dressing of game in the field, and any subsequent aging is done in an inconspicuous area. Public displays like the one you witnessed do nothing but hasten the end of what is already a declining outdoor activity.

For the record, I hunted for many years but I gave it up some time ago. Didn't like the sort of company I was keeping.....

[seabeyond]

181. thank you. that is what i ALWAYS observed in the world of hunters i have been

around.

i feel like i am in a twilight zone in subthreads up above.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

196. They aren't displaying their game, they are getting ready to butcher them.

[Paladin]

237. Pathetic Response. I Expect Better Of You. (n/t)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

251. If the truth hurts you probably need to examine your own views instead of lashing out at others.

[Paladin]

256. Pathetic Response. I Used To Expect Better Of You. (n/t)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

279. If the truth hurts you probably need to examine your own views instead of lashing out at others.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

280. EXTREMELY unreasonable expectations. -nt

[NYC_SKP]

200. Methinks this was Erotic Asphyxiation...

Sad Really

[Cal Carpenter]

202. Wow, what a thread

So seeing a dead deer being processed makes you uncomfortable so you are gonna take it up with your city council.

How about homeless people? Got any of those in your town? Does seeing them make you uncomfortable? Would you take that up with city council, to work on getting affordable or free housing? Or would you tell city council to just arrest them to get them out of your sight? Naw, you are probably so insulated you don't see anything but rainbows and butterflies.

I can't believe this thread. I can't believe that it's the people defending this guy that are being called 'self-absorbed' or self-centered'. This guy is doing something totally legal, totally legitimate, and it has nothing to do with you.

It's been said before and it should be said again - your attitude toward this situation is just like someone who doesn't like gay people saying they shouldn't be allowed to hold hands or kiss in public. Get over yourself.

[undeterred]

203. What's amazing is comparing someone's reaction

to the violent death and display of animals to being averse to expressions of love between gay people.

[uppityperson]

209. What's amazing is comparing someone's reaction

to seeing "meat" in its natural form rather than packaged in plastic in the grocery store to disgusting public displays of perverse behavior.

EXTREME :sarcasm: for that, but what you write is as wrong as those who do say, and mean, what I wrote.

[undeterred]

210. Now I'm completely lost.

[uppityperson]

214. I took your example and turned it around,positive for negative

This guy is doing something totally legal, totally legitimate, but people who are saying that are being called self-absorbed or self-centered.

As pda's (public displays of affection) are fine, legal, legitimate, so is meat in its more natural form.

[undeterred]

220. Oranges and apples.

People object to seeing dead deer hanging up in public because its gross to display dead animals, not because they have a moral objection to hunting.

Homophobic people object to seeing gay people kiss because they think its "perverted" (as you put it), or morally wrong.

[uppityperson]

221. Grossness, as beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

What someone considers "gross" is not universal. That is my ONLY point here, to explain the post at the beginning of this subthread.

[undeterred]

229. That's true.

My dog thinks roadkill is wonderful.

[JonQ]

207. The funny thing is that many people complaining about this

would gladly view a demonstration of traditional native american animal butchering as a cultural and historical treasure that should be shared with all.

[Codeine]

211. Too right. nt

[supernova]

213. +100

The idea of cultural distance is in play here.

IOW, it's OK to see it as part of a demo of what people "used to do" or "what OTHER people do". It's bad, however, if I or my extended living group do it and I don't want to see it.

Personally, I think the guy was showing off a little and for three days in medium temps? Yuck. I think I'll pass on his venison stew. But I have no problem with him butchering his own game.

[Go2Peace]

225. No, you don't get it. Use your "empathy" muscle here

It doesn't bother me (well much, it doesn't "offend" me), but it would many people, including my wife. The whole issue is just about consideration for others. Not everyone feels good when they see this. And it really is not consistant with yard landscaping.

So if we are a society that:

1. Accepts some rules as to landscaping etc
2. Values kindness, empathy and community

It is entirely consistant not to hang your dead deer in front where other neighbors may be disturbed by it.

Trouble is, I am not sure we are that "kind" of society, as seems to be evidenced even on a board of democrats.

[Mari333]

226. thanks. you said what I felt. :)

[polly7]

240. I think he probably had somewhere else he could have hung them.

A friend's garage, a father-in-law's barn. I got to hate the show-off, look what I did hunters after they came into my bar with their bloody clothes and filthy hands, and expected a drink. There is such a thing as RESPECT.

Death isn't something that needs to be shown off in your front yard. We all know hunting is legal and necessary, but so is picking your nose and scratching your ass.

[JonQ]

262. Your right to be offended doesn't trump his right to use his property

in a legal manner.

He could put up a giant menorah, or rainbow flag on his front lawn too, that would likely offend some people. That doesn't mean he should be penalized or stigmatized for it.

Now if he is part of a homeowners association he must abide by those rules he agreed to when moving in, but I don't think that's the case in this scenario.

[flvegan]

239. I can see how folks can/would see that as an obscene display.

[Kali]

244. It would be interesting to know what the general consensus of the immediate neighborhood is.

Guy could be a true asshole or it could be somewhat normal for the area. Don't know how long the OP has lived there and she is obviously shocked so that is some evidence that it isn't too common...I don't know, hard to tell from just that post.

[flvegan]

249. Completely agree.

I mean, I can say that if I walked past that, I'd be disgusted and hateful but what would anyone expect from me? But, if all the neighbors are hunting carcass-hangers (or looking forward to the big cookout of venison that the block party will be in a week), then it's just another day.

[nashville_brook]

243. 1. i love seeing deer in my neighborhood walking our dogs... living deer.

2. i have no problem with hunting deer for food (dress it in the backyard, please -- and don't kill the neighborhood deer).

3. nothing wrong with backyard chickens. frontyard herbs, or yard ornamentation.

i'd absolutely hate to see deer being dressed in front of anyone's house in my neighborhood. it's a bit traumatic for me, an adult. can't imagine what little kids would come away with. i used to see game being cleaned in the front yards of houses in the mountains in east tennessee all the time, but it didn't bother me b/c it was the mountains, and not some little suburban development.

i agree with your reaction.

[Kaleva]

265. Sure beats walking the dogs yourself, doesn't it? Having the deer do some chores.

[Withywindle]

248. I grew up in a VERY rural area.

When slaughtering season came around, I can't tell you how many skinned, beheaded carcasses of cows and pigs I saw from my (45 minutes each way) school bus ride when I was a child. Also, deer-hunting was huge, and every third gas station also offered taxidermy services and leased out freezer space.

It was upsetting, yes, no doubt about it. (especially the ones right across the road from my parents' house that I couldn't get away from).

But that's what meat IS. It's the reality.


(No, I'm not a vegetarian - it gave me nightmares, but not enough to scare me off my bacon and steak tartare. :9 )

Reading stories like this just makes me think, damn, suburban and small-town people are a bunch of delicate hothouse flowers.

[bobbolink]

250. Homeless people are dying in droves, but where's the outrage about that?

[Kaleva]

266. This is poutrage and not outrage. There's a difference.

[bobbolink]

282. Welllll, that certainly makes us ignored homeless people feel ever so much better.

:puke:

[Taitertots]

252. Call the wambulance

Waaahh, cry all the way to the city council meeting. Too afraid she might see something she doesn't want when she walks her dogs.

[dbt]

257. Don't look, Ethel!

But it was too late. She'd already been incensed.

[Midlodemocrat]

263. This thread is full of win!!!

Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[aikoaiko]

264. Its your right to complain if you think the city ordinances are inconsistent, but ...

... since hanging deer is a temporary thing I wouldn't complain.

Have you considered asking the neighbor to hang the deer less conspicuously?

[RetroLounge]

271. This entire thread rocks

:applause::applause:
:applause::applause:
:applause::applause:

RL

[BeachBaby]

272. Actually, I believe that this could be a blessing in disguise.

Maybe if more people were exposed to the reality of killing innocent animals for food, meat wouldn't be so pleasurable anymore.

[snooper2]

281. Are those deer still hanging from that tree?

Because if they are they must be putting out one hell of a stink by now :rofl:

[Throd]

283. Is it any worse than seeing them splattered by the roadside?

Around here that is a very common sight.

[Kali]

284. (mari333 this is NOT for you - DO NOT LOOK) I'm going to hell for this, but I can't resist:

just got this in an e-mail. too much of a plate of shrimp* to not post it.

sensitive types should not scroll down

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Deep Down to the Core... Certified RED-NECK Christmas





*Repo Man

[NYC_SKP]

285. DUZY! Great pic, especially the *ahem* "extra lights" on the tree stump...

electronic entrails for the electronic vicitim...

:P