Religious Right, Catholic Bishops Seek To Impose Religion On All Americans Through Law

[Adsos Letter]

SOURCE: Americans United for Separation of Church and State
November 20, 2009

Americans United for Separation of Church and State today expressed grave concern about a renewed push by a coalition of conservative church groups to impose religious teachings on all Americans through government action.

At a press conference today, Religious Right leaders and Roman Catholic bishops unveiled a joint statement criticizing laws that allow reproductive choice and same-sex marriage. The “Manhattan Declaration” indicates that participating religious leaders will defy such laws if they conflict with church doctrines.

Americans United charges that the real agenda is not protecting the religious freedom of churches, but rather attempting to impose those doctrines on all Americans by government decree.

Said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director, “This declaration is certain to be deeply divisive. These religious leaders want to see their doctrines imposed by force of law, and that goes against everything America stands for. “The United States is an incredibly diverse nation,” he continued, “and it would be a disaster if government started favoring one religious perspective over others.”

LINK: http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/archives/2009/11/religious-right-catholic.html

[leftstreet]

1. Is this common - for Catholics and Religious Righties to agree?

:shrug:

[MountainLaurel]

3. The enemy of my enemy is my friend

That seems to be the reasoning in this partnership.

[Adsos Letter]

4. It is when they have common goals.

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. One word -

Scalia.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

39. Another one word explanation

Gincrich

[wryter2000]

12. I wonder

Could we get them squabbling with each other and get them off the rest of our backs?

Maybe we could get the righties to call the Catholics "papists," or something.

[Adsos Letter]

17. LOL! Ah, the traditional Protestant term of endearment.

[TommyO]

26. When the issue is controlling others, like gay people or women

They gladly come together to force their crap onto everybody else. Just look at what Catholic bishops, Mormons and the Religious wrong accomplished in California with Prop 8 and in Maine.

[Adsos Letter]

27. Yep. Setting aside common differences to achieve common goals...

their version of the Ecumenical movement.

[glinda]

31. A year or so ago the Pope "evil eyes" announced that the Church's mission in part was to

be big on Evangelizing. Not only that but the numbers of Catholics have been falling. Bennie seeks to pull the Evangelicals, the radical right, a few others under the wing of the Catholic Church. I say this by watching what he has been doing and also having been raised and educated in Catholic schools, I see distinctly his actions as those of desperation as well as greed and control.He is attacking the "intellectuals" of the Church as well meaning the Franciscans, some nuns and others. This man is not cut from he same cloth as Pope John Paul II.There are some scholars of Catholicism that are very upset by what Bennie is doing. He is frightening. He is evil in my opinion. He should be removed from the head of the Church. I believe he is even putting pressure on the Greek head of the Church.

[glinda]

32. link to Ratzi's past history of "controlling people".

http://www.dialoginternational.com/dialog_international/2009/03/joseph-ratzingers-black-list.html

[teachthemwell15]

43. Very common for Catholics and Religious fundies to agree

They've been in bed with each other for the past 40 or so years.

The commonality??

Their joining at the hip over their pontifications that women are inferior to men.

Women and the autonomy of women, to be more specific.
Women and women's equality in terms of gender and every other issue.
Women and their place in society, culture and the church.

That's the source of their commonality. Sad desperation and sick to boot!

:puke:

[fascisthunter]

2. The Fanatical Religious are in for a Shock (nt)

[sakabatou]

5. Oy veysmer.

[Adsos Letter]

7. To anyone who has any discretionary income during these tight times...

AU is an excellent organization to consider when deciding who to contribute to; probably more important now than at any time in the last 100 years.

[wryter2000]

13. LOL

I'll follow you to this thread to make the same appeal. Barry Lynn is everywhere to try to save our religious freedom, including freedom from religion.

(I'm Christian, btw, and firmly for separation of church and state.)

[Adsos Letter]

16. I, too, am a Christian...and the religious liberty protected by Church/State separation...

including the freedom to practice no religion, is a treasured right fundamental to the philosophy and laws of our nation.

[Angry Dragon]

24. You have my vote

[fascisthunter]

25. and I'm an Atheist and I'm with you both

[JuniperLea]

8. My family left their country once because of such things...

I'm sure I can carry on that tradition... I don't think it will come to that.

[Adsos Letter]

9. Americans would greatly benefit...

by some reading on the religious aspects of the English Civil War.

[JuniperLea]

21. Indeed...

We don't need The Church of America. But this time it won't be Catholics and Protestants alone... we have a new brown man to hate now, donchano. And his religion is very scary, or so we are being told.

[metalbot]

41. They left England and set up a religious state of their own

Assuming that you are making a Pilgrim reference, your family left England so that they could establish their own state based on their own religious principles.

Here are some examples of their laws:

Fornication Unmarried couple who refuses to get married after incident: whipping, fine of £10, and three or less days in prison
Unmarried couple who agree to get married after incident: £10 fine, but no whipping.
Couple already engaged to be married at time of incident: fine of 50 shillings
Cursing God Three hours (or less) in the public stocks
Lying in public Fine of 10 shillings. If can't pay, then 2 hours in the stocks
Stealing Repay double the value of what was stolen, or be publicly whipped
Getting drunk Fined, value to be determined by the magistrates
Gambling with dice or cards Fine of 40 shillings
Wearing visors or other "strange" apparel Fine of 50 shillings
Defacing a landmark Fine ranging from 20 shillings to 5 pounds, depending on severity
Tearing down or burning someone's fence Rebuild the fence, plus a 50 shilling fine for first offense, 5 pound fine for second offense
Denying the Scriptures Whipping, severity to be determined by magistrates, but never to endanger life or limb.
Failing to attend church 10 shilling fine
Working (laboring) on Sunday 10 shilling fine
Traveling on Sunday 20 shilling fine
Harboring a Quaker 20 shillings per week, after being warned.

Let's not pretend that they left England to found a secular community.

[laconicsax]

10. And the claim that they're not true Christians in 3...2...1...

[DavidDvorkin]

18. Those aren't real Christians!

Real Christians wouldn't talk. They'd impose their will with the sword.

[Adsos Letter]

20. Like Jesus did?

[JuniperLea]

22. Jesus' teachings are lost on most, methinks...

Heck, I even had arguments with the elders of my fundy church while growing up on what Jesus would want us to do. Somehow they read him as being all filled with hate and revenge... when I pointed out that was Old Testament, and Jesus was the truth, the light, and the way... well you'd think I was saying HAIL SATAN! You see, they thought when Jesus said "these the lesser of my brethren" he really meant they were lesser beings... instead of less fortunate, or less revered by society, or anything else. The hypocrisy was stifling. I'm still recovering.

[DavidDvorkin]

28. The way Christians have been doing for centuries.

[Adsos Letter]

29. Not all Christians, and certainly not Jesus.

[DavidDvorkin]

35. Right, because the ones who do those things aren't real Christians

That's how that absurd argument runs.

[Adsos Letter]

36. Whether they are "real" Christians or not is outside my certain knowledge...

but what IS certain is that Jesus would condemn it; "By their fruit you will know them."

[wryter2000]

11. Translation, please

participating religious leaders will defy such laws if they conflict with church doctrines.

How, exactly, are they going to defy the laws? By refusing to dispense birth control or perform abortions?

:crazy:

[Adsos Letter]

14. I assume it has something to do with this statement from the article:

Lynn said. “Polls show that most church-goers do not want to see their faith politicized. But I am also well aware that religious leaders have vast lobbying power that cannot be ignored.”

I'm not exactly sure how, though...anyone can lobby, as part of the right to "redress of grievances," whether those grievances are legit or not is another matter.

[immoderate]

15. It seems that Catholics, who were traditionally liberal...

have been influenced by the evangelicals, who didn't have a handle before Roe. The abortion thing overrides other issues because it is so black and white.

The irony is that most Catholics, to my knowledge, participate sparsely, and leave the work to the more conservative bishops.

--imm

[Adsos Letter]

19. This would appear to be AU's take on that...

Lynn said. “Polls show that most church-goers do not want to see their faith politicized. But I am also well aware that religious leaders have vast lobbying power that cannot be ignored.”

[FiveGoodMen]

23. I regard this in exactly the same way as if a foreign army was coming over the hill.

This is treason.

This is an attack.

These are the people to take up arms against.

This is the enemy.

[Adsos Letter]

34. ...

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson

[Angry Dragon]

38. I have said this many times on this website

[Canuckistanian]

30. Then why don't they do the same with the death penalty?

I've never heard a peep from these High Priests about America's prodigious use of the death penalty.

If they did, I could maybe even almost excuse them from making this asinine demand.

It would at least show consistency.

[metalbot]

40. The Catholic church is strongly opposed to the death penalty

Google "Catholic Church Death Penalty"

From a piece written by Cardinal Mahony:

"For many Catholics, Pope John Paul II's visit to the United States in January of 1999 was a turning point on this issue. In calling the abolition of the death penalty an authentically pro-life position, he challenged Catholics to protect not only innocent human life, as we do in opposing abortion and euthanasia, but also to defend the lives of those who may have done great evil by taking the life of another. To demonstrate this conviction in a dramatic and personal way, he appealed for the life of Darrell Mease whose execution was postponed in deference to the Pope's visit.

The words and actions of Pope John Paul II in St. Louis brought renewed attention to the debate on the death penalty. It provided renewed moral support to those that have worked tirelessly over the last several decades for an end to capital punishment and placed the Catholic Church even more squarely on the side of those calling for its abolition."

[DU GrovelBot]

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[MadMaddie]

37. When do these organizations lose their tax exempt status?

[Nikki Stone1]

42. That would be the answer to a lot of this.

.