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why isnt palin being used for libel?

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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:27 PM
Original message
why isnt palin being used for libel?
She is openly accusing Obama of saying things which have been proven false yet no one moves a finger. The same happened with clinton - he was accused of so many things none of which had merit except for that infantile "outrage" about Lewinsky. I am from England and i can tell you that if someone libeled anyone to this extent they would find their asses in court facing jail time and a fine. Why not here?

This excerpt from Going Rouge: Sarah Palin-An American Nightmare appears in the November 30, 2009 issue of The Nation.

...she somberly raised the decision to move the "In God We Trust" motto to the edge of the presidential dollar coin. "Who calls a shot like that?" she said, insinuatingly. Actually, George W. Bush did. It was an embarrassing gaffe that also neatly captures the key elements of Palinism: fact-free conspiracy, hollow patriotism and public religiosity--the very coins of Republican populist rage.


Consider the role Palin played in the "death panel" hysteria. The source was Betsy McCaughey.... But it was Palin who popularized the term on Facebook. "The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide.... Such a system is downright evil." Palin put a face on its supposed victims (her baby, Trig), contrived the expression "death panel" (linking it directly to Obama), raised the specter of euthanasia in the service of a state-run economy.


Palin's power lies not in her capacity to write legislation or win national elections but in her ability to torpedo the democratic process.


In the Palin universe, her unwed pregnant teenage daughter, Bristol, is somehow a poster child for abstinence-only education. An aggressive advocate for opening up oil reserves to drilling, she labels herself pro-environment, a stance exemplified by her love of shooting animals or her husband's hobby of racing snowmobiles across the tundra.


The secret to her success: neither the left nor the right can get enough of her.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's pretty hard to make a defamation or libel case against a public figure...
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Highly amusing typo. :)
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. I reckon there might be a typo in your subject line. nt
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 01:31 PM by Cant trust em
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. However, it accurately reflects that woman and
her relationship to the Republican Party.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. answer is simple
the laws on libel (and slander) are different from england. in brief, it is more difficult to prove either in the USA, and ESPECIALLY against a public official. furthermore, using terms like "DEATH PANEL" is not even close to libel. if she said something like "Obama, a convicted child rapist" and obama was not a convicted child rapist, and she had no reasonable reason to believe he was, and that she made such a claim with "actual malice", it might be actionable. simply put, people have rather wide latitude in regards to statements about public officials, ESPECIALLY if it's satire (see: the falwell vs. hustler case), and opinions are never libel or slander.
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historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. sorry i dont see that
If she claimed that obama said something which he never did and which caused great harm as well, she still cant be sued? That sounds like an open invitation to lie your way to the up. Perhaps i dont understand the concept here but id appreciate any further comments you might have on it.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. actual malice
Edited on Fri Nov-20-09 04:00 PM by paulsby
quote specifically what she said obama said which he never did. unless she was quoting him, paraphrasing is very difficult to sue for libel/slander, direct quotes are easier. recall back to the recent limbaugh brouhaha where several news agencies reported that limbaugh had said certain things on air, that he hadn't said. this is typical with media, in that if one person reports X, then several other agencies take that as face value, and the inaccuracy is replicated. even in that case, he couldn't sue unless he could show "actual malice" as defined by the scotus.

iow, i am not exactly sure what quote you are referring to, but i can tell you the general principles of libel/slander in the USA.

like i said, if she said something that is CLEARLY false (and note that terms like "death panels" don't meet that standard. rhetoric almost never meets the standards for libel. it has to be a specific verifiable falsehood before the actual malice test can even be used. for example, if she said "barack obama, a convicted child molester" THAT would be verifiable as false. saying "barack obama's plan approves a death panel" does not. because, among other things, what exactly is or isn't a "death panel" is incredibly subjective.

here's a nice summary of the standard required by public official to successfully sue...

the last line is especially instructive. in brief, it is VERY difficult for public officials to sue for slander/libel. i'm a public official under that standard, fwiw.

note also the falwell v. hustler case. in that case, blatant falsehoods about falwell were stated, but since it was an "obvious parody' ad, it also did not constitute anything civilly actionable.

Actual Malice:
A burden of proof imposed on public officials and public figures suing for defamation and falsity, requiring them to prove with clear and convincing evidence that an offending story was published with knowing falsehood or reckless disregard for the truth. The Supreme Court said in New York Times Co. v. Sullivan (1964) that the First Amendment required proof of actual malice in order to protect a wide open and robust debate about government affairs. Proof of falsity and negligence are not sufficient to establish actual malice. The Court said in Garrison v. Louisiana (1964) that the proof of actual malice requires plaintiffs to establish that defamatory statements were made with a “high degree of awareness of their probable falsity.” Actual malice usually requires proof of a combination of factors including dependence on an unreliable source and failure to check factual assertions in the face of substantial reasons to doubt their accuracy. Findings that can contribute to actual malice include minimal deadline pressures, inconsistencies within a story, a failure to check important sources, evidence that journalists knew information contrary to what was published, a desire to increase circulation, and political motivations. The Court has said that actual malice is distinct from common‐law malice, which requires proof of hatred or ill will. In Masson v. New Yorker Magazine, Inc. (1991), the Court reaffirmed its commitment to the principles of actual malice but said that use of the term “actual malice” can be confusing and that judges therefore should use the phrases “knowledge of falsity” and “reckless disregard as to the truth?? when giving jury instructions. Since public officials and public figures have been required to prove actual malice, they have rarely won libel suits.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Thanks for the clear and concise explanation. nt
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Libel? I wouldn't use her for any damn thing...
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frebrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. 1. Used for libel? & 2. I had enough of her the first time I saw her! eom
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. I prefer to use her as a colostomy bag.
Or maybe a spittoon.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Would the subject line qualify as a Malapropism?
Literati, please help me out here!
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-20-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. Failin would probably use the same defense Beck, Hannity & OxyRush use ...




... when they get backed up into a corner ... "Hey, I'm just an entertainer".

That's how Beck weaseled out when he couldn't take the heat he got from the ladies on "The View"

The other RW Media hatemongers have all said the same thing when the occasion called for it.


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