White House Rebuke: Angry Dems Shut Down Vote

[democracy1st]

A bloc of African American House Democrats, angry and worried that not enough is being done about high unemployment by the administration, forced the postponement of a much-anticipated vote Thursday on comprehensive financial regulation reform.

The Financial Services Committee had finished hearing amendments around 3 p.m. and recessed, planning to return at 4 for a final vote on the package. But during the break, some of the Democrats on the committee pigeonholed Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and told him they wouldn't vote for the bill because of the deepening problem of unemployment in their districts.

The refusal to vote for the package, a key priority of the administration, and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner in particular, was portrayed as a direct rebuke of the White House's "lack of response to the economic situation."

"We will not be proceeding to passage today," Frank began. "I have been meeting with members of the committee, particularly the members of the Congressional Black Caucus, who have informed me that they are troubled by what they believe is the lack of response to the economic situation that is confronting them on the part of the administration, and therefore do not feel that they could -- in deference to the various constituencies that they represent -- vote for passage."

The CBC met earlier this week with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and expressed dissatisfaction with the administration's response to the unemployment situation, an aide familiar with the meeting said.

There are ten CBC members on the Financial Services Committee.

"The recession has created a unique systemic risk that threatens all parts of the African-American community, including the poor and the middle class," said Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.), a subcommittee chair, in a statement after shutting down the vote. "I have always been committed to addressing that risk and will continue to do so. This is a critical issue for my constituents."

The bill was scheduled to be considered on the House floor during the second week of December. Today's vote was postponed until the Tuesday after the Thanksgiving break. In the meantime, the Democratic leadership is working on job-creating legislation they want to pass before Christmas.

"Nothing is lost by waiting ten days," said Frank. That's assuming, he added, that he can put the bill's coalition back together. "Obviously, if there are not the votes for the bill, it will not come up."

WATCH:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/19/panicked-about-jobs-house_n_364416.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bridgit]

3. They will so long as they think they are able to do so...it's time to start pushing them...

into the mud puddles, in fact, where they belong

[CreekDog]

16. They are probably sick of seeing the folks like Lieberman, Stupak and Baucus use it so effectively

can't blame anyone for noticing.

[TheBigotBasher]

38. Agreed

Why should it be the Republicans electe with D next to their name who get to play power politics.

Well done to the CBC

[bridgit]

50. Agreed

[Flaneur]

23. Push who into the mud puddles? The mud people?

What are you trying to say here?

[saracat]

31. And yet another extremely offensive post I would not expect to see here.

"it's time to start pushing them... into the mud puddles,in fact,where they belong"

Are you serious? Describing the CBC in those terms?

[CreekDog]

61. I doubt she is describing the CBC that way since she actually agreed with me

:hi:

[AllentownJake]

36. I hope you see that in hindsite that statement is very offensive

and you might want to apologize.

[Snazzy]

44. mud puddles? wtf x2 n/t

[olegramps]

53. Just who are you referring to? I expect an answer.

[bridgit]

60. Ah, now we're getting somewhere: that would be the Geithner/Summers...

AIG/GoldmanFedSachsReserve ='ing anyone handing our money where it continues to enrich the already wealthy but thanks for asking anyhow in that the post I replied has long since dissolved there's your answer...are *you* satisfied?

[grasswire]

5. what the hell kind of thing is that to say...

....about a group of African American congress members??

What century is this?

Who are you?

[saracat]

12. Isn't that amazing and revolting? There are no lengths too low for some to stoop

in order to suppress any critical thinking or anything other than complete subjugation to their imagined ideal.This is offensive on so many levels and exactly like the Bushies!

[saracat]

8. Really? So punish them for speaking out? I wish we had some folks speaking up for women and GLBT

folks as well.What do some think this is Bushland? No questions asked? Just STFU and go along?And the last remark "Christ,I think Rahm should just barricade them all inside the capitol building and burn it down" is in incredibly offensive and a disgrace to DU or any Democratic Board.

[Arkana]

10. Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.

Oh, wait, no. No, I'm not. Not at all.

[saracat]

14. Yes, you aren't.

[saracat]

21. Do you really think the President would appreciate this kind of support?????

"Christ, I think Rahm should just barricade them all inside the Capitol building and burn it down."

My God, this sounds like Glenn Beck!

[fascisthunter]

58. those who want to shut down debate are more delicate

than those speaking out, especially when it isn't popular. It takes more guts to speak out than to toe the line.

[AllentownJake]

15. They are quite the cute little cult aren't they

If only he was King......

[saracat]

17. Talking about burning folks alive in the capitol cannot be considered appropriate

and under the orders of the COS yet.

[AllentownJake]

20. If only someone would rid me of this troublesome priest

Is the only thing I can think of.

I guess I proved how moderate I was by advocating fundraisers for primary opponents of the public option. Should have started off with getting rid of congress all together in a Reichstage fire.

[saracat]

27. That phrase is exactly what that sounds like. I am quite a fan of "Becket"

I just cannot imagine President Obama appreciating support of this nature. It is reminicent of the Clan, and outright creepy.

[AllentownJake]

35. I stayed out of the Conyers thread on Health Care reform

I've been saying they were about to have a progressive problem after Health Care reform went through, I was right.

[saracat]

40. I said Stupack would pass the House. they said I fretted over nothing!

This has not been a good week for the Wh what with Der Speigal dissing Obama, Conyers, and the CBC and De Fazio calling for the ouster of Geithner, seems like some folks aren't happy.

[AllentownJake]

42. They are facing re-election

and they have to go home to an angry constiuency and explain to them why Goldman Sachs is making 3 billion a quarter and they can't find work. That coupled with having to explain how the Stupak amendment made it into the House Bill and that unemployment and mortgage foreclosures are going up. It is about to be winter and more people are going to go without heat than went without it last year. The states they reside in are cutting services.

They followed the White House direction for 10 months and they are seriously pissed off right now at where they are at.

[saracat]

45. Exactly so. And now the WH is trying to buy them off, promising VP

visits( Like that is a boon. Obama doesn't even promise a visit himself!) for their HCR vote and threatening them with the fact( according to them) that if Obama doesn't get what he wants, they won't be re-elected, which , in many districts, including conservative ones, is bogus. Unfortunately things are not goling well, despite protests to the contrary and I cannot see us retaining the majority. But then , as I was with Stupak, I am a "doom and gloomer. " It is actually all rainbows and kittens. I just don't see it.

[AllentownJake]

46. I said on election night they were in trouble

Virginia can be written off as an idiot was running but still even a big dumbass normally doesn't lose by 18%, when Corzine lost to a conservative with a Paultard on the ballot getting 6% of the vote everyone did a double take. The NY 23 was a victory but Owens didn't break 50% and they are going to have to defend that seat in 2010 when there will be a GOP primary and 2 candidates on the ballot not 3. Plus it isn't everyday a Republican drops out than endorses the Democrat over a third party candidate.

Corzine had 3 Presidential visits...did nothing for him.

[saracat]

47. We agree, but what do we know? I have to laugh remembering how some

on this board quoted my own pollster back to me and said I was wrong! Things just are not as some want them to appear. And I just don't get WHY the WH is refusing to lead. On anything.They aren't really "leading " on HCR or anything else. It is like it is all a muddle trying to appeal to all sides and acheiving nothing. They never had the GOP and now they are losing the Dems.

[AllentownJake]

48. 2010 was decided when the President

ran to the Clinton economic team. The guy has a fundamental misunderstanding of the problems and he grabbed the anti-regulatory new democrats to serve as his economic advisers. The only guy with any common sense is Volker and all reports are that he has been put in the corner of the administration.

The guy simply doesn't understand what the effect of the PC and internet were on Clinton's term. These guys weren't geniuses they just got lucky to be sitting in office when the biggest tech improvement since the automobile came onto the scene.

On Health Care:

Mandating employer coverage? Basing a substantial portion of your reform on this premise. Is the guy crazy or just plain stupid. Does he not understand the entire reason the employer coverage system exist in the United States is due to wage controls during and after WW2 to prevent inflation.

What the hell do these morons think is going to happen in a labor market where we are worried about wage deflation not wage inflation. Benefits are considered part of a compensation package. Oh and the only thing that would improve the system, he has given luke warm to no support on.

His entire economic team are trying to fight the battles of 2000 instead of looking at what is going on in the world in 2009.

[TicketyBoo]

65. I was pretty disgusted

when Geithner was appointed. A Secretary of the Treasury who is either too dumb to pay his taxes or a crook who thought he didn't have to pay his taxes (Leona Helmsley Syndrome).

Obama thought he needed him, so I grumbled and hoped for the best. Still hoping for the best.

[anonymous171]

19. Disregard this post I was being stupid. nt

[AllentownJake]

22. Frank's bill sucks anyway

More white washing of a rotting wall.

[anonymous171]

28. I actually agree now

I was so pissed off that I forgot how to think rationally. Sorry about that. :hi:

[AllentownJake]

29. No problem

My initial reaction was like what the fuck are these guys up to, than I remembered it was the bill Frank has been kicking around and having amended in committee to oblivion by the corporocrats on the committee.

[BR_Parkway]

49. And that's why many are going to have more trouble in 2010 - overwhelmingly

voting for Change, then watching Congress actively stand in the way to serve their corporate masters while more and more people lose their homes and jobs. There's plenty of anger out there to stop simply re-electing the incumbents - and I, for one, think it's well overdue. Way too many, on both sides of the aisle, have forgotten who they are supposed to be working for

[AllentownJake]

13. Democracy sucks

and that separation of powers thing is worse....I got an idea King Obama.

You just outed yourself as a fascist.

[Snazzy]

37. wtf

you know someone should probably alert on a post advocating burning congress members alive in support of that great hero Rahm. Won't be me. I hope it gets immortalized for all time in the archives here as another fine example of the kind of people the party has sold out to.

[anonymous171]

2. What the fucking fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:
:banghead:

[WCGreen]

4. The Caucus has a valid point....

They represent the most poverty stricken areas of the country, districts where unemployment can easily top 50% and had to sit and watch as their neighborhoods were decimated by the professional flippers who came in and bought hundreds of foreclosed homes, did a little gussy up and then sell to people of dubious financial standing...

Yea, they have a point...

Do you expect them to hold up legislation that isn't important to mostly white America?

Have at it and get what you can while you have democrats in charge...

[anonymous171]

11. I don't really care what their point is. They are siding with the enemy.

[AllentownJake]

18. Who pray tell is the enemy?

[anonymous171]

24. Bankers and the financial elite.

However, now that I have calmed down, I do think that they may be on to something. This is Geithner's package after all. It probably is full of handouts and "regulations" that are designed to help the financial cheats rather than contain them.

[AllentownJake]

25. You are correct

This is also the bill where Barney Frank exempted most financial firms from new derivative regulations.

[Flaneur]

26. They are siding with their constituents.

If you think that's the enemy, maybe you're in the wrong forum.

[WCGreen]

30. The Democratic party has taken the Black vote for granted for far

too long.

I was involved with big city ethnic politics for over a decade and I can assure you that the Caucus is forced to take this kind of action to even give their constituents' agenda a voice let alone a chance to be actually acted upon.

Do you really think all of the conservative Dems who voted for the Stupak Amendment are going to give a rats ass about inner city issues unless they are forced too?

If you want a rigid, hard line party vote, go see how that works with the GOP...

[saracat]

32. And the contempt for the CBC displayed in this thread confirms your point

[anonymous171]

34. The GOP's rigid party line strategy is why they still dominate the debate

even thought they are in the minority. Also see #24, I was being kind of stupid before. Sorry for that.

[WCGreen]

39. I fully understand the heat of the moment response response...

Politics is a messy business. I have had th good (mis) fortune to have been close to and part of the inner circle in state and big city politics and I had to finally walk away. It can really frustrate th hell out of you.

But the winners, elected and partisans, are those who stay at it.

Why do you think lobbyist take up residence in DC?

[napi21]

6. What exactly do they want the WH to do? Nothing I can think of can possibly

re-employ 34 million Americans that do not have a job! I realize they are frustrated and they see the Blue Dogs getting most of what they wanted so they're starting their own band wagon. The problem is, disagree or not, the BD's said exactly what they wanted, these folks just want jobs but have no suggestions on how to accomplish that.

The WH nor Congress can create jobs!

I'm old and have been through several of these recessions. The only thing that I've ever seen work is time to stabelize businesses and get them to feel positively about the future so they are willing to risk expansion, or some new business segment start up, like the internet.

[Beregond2]

7. Talk about cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

Financial regulation reform is vital to the economy. A better economy equals better jobs. What do they want, a president who is already being criticised for being a spendthrift, to cough up a bunch more money to create make-work jobs that will only hurt the economy in the long run? Good grief.

[AllentownJake]

9. The President is in some serious trouble

Taking on the Health Care legislation before financial reform was a serious miscalculation. The behavior of the White House on catering to conservative democrats concerns over the progressive caucuses was another.

He's about to face an angry revolt in his own party. 95% of the progressive caucus is safe for re-election in 2010, the Blue Dogs, not so much.

[Cosmocat]

51. No, he isn't ...

and it was not a "miscalcuation" to take on health care reform, as can not be debated as we have seen it played out, was the BIG battle here.

frankly, that he had to deal with the stimulus first was bad enough. he had to tackle this with every last bit of political "capital" he had. He never would have been able to get it done had he put any other major policy initiative in front of it.

People are looking at November 2010 through the Novemeber 2009 lense - which is pretty darn mucked up from this battle. When they get the health care bill passed, the whole dynamic changes A LOT ... Getting the bill passed brings back as least some of the burnt up capital ...

Truman, I think it was, was the first president in modern times to take it on, and every one of them failed. It won't be what WE know is the best solution (universal) but it WILL be the first reform of the system we have had since medicade ...

If he gets this passed by the State of the Union, the books are clean going into the new year ...

[BeFree]

52. How 'bout that??

Someone on this thread actually has a clue about real-politics.
Read thru all of it before finally reading some wisdom.
Thanks, Cosmocat. I was beginning to wonder if...

[saracat]

56. And that would be AllentownJake!

[BeFree]

57. Wrong

Again.
How you do that makes me wonder.
You are consistent, however.

[AllentownJake]

54. Do you know what FDR did while he bailed out the banks?

He regulated them. There is still a lack of faith in the financial system in the United States. Yesterday T-bills were trading at a negative yield. The demand to reduce your counter-party exposure by investments has reached a point where they are willing to pay the US Treasury to hold their money for them, rather risk putting it in another short term investment or leaving cash balances in the banking system.

Here is where we are in November 2009...the same place we were in December 2008. That isn't good. The banks were given money to survive and they hoarded some and gambled the rest. Everyone with a brain knows that.

You can say all you want about Health Care, when FDR was facing his crisis he didn't move onto social security because he had political capital to pass it right away and it was a hard bill to pass.

The stimulus, well, how is that working out? Nobody knows how many jobs were created, there is more controversy how the money was spent now than there was when the bill was signed.

You aren't going to bring back burnt up capital with passing the bill. You have a total misunderstanding where political capital comes from. Democrats winning Virginia and New Jersey would have created more capital for the President than passing this bill. Capital comes from winning elections, not from passing a piece of legislation.

Outside the world of politics, more people are going to lose or have lost their insurance by November 2010 because of unemployment than are going to gain it under this bill after the Senate and House bill are married and provisions are timed.

[TicketyBoo]

66. I'm thinking

he really hasn't spent a lot of his capital on this. That's why he's letting Congress fight it out, so he can keep his hands clean of it, and I think it's a wise move.

[murdoch]

62. If health care wasn't taken on now

It would have never gotten through.

Financial regulation is not going to happen. Business is complaining about Sarbanes-Oxley as it is. Even if something is passed, it will be repealed.

The financial crisis has not meant a regulation of financial institutions but a deregulation of them. The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 has been completely eradicated, beyond what they tried to do in 1999.

[AllentownJake]

63. I think in March of 2009

You had a pretty good bully pulpit to preach financial reform. Even the people who had money were scared shitless.

On the other side of the coin, it appears institutional investors are more content to leave their money in T-bills with negative yields a year after TARP than letting a bank anywhere near it. Translation, returning faith into the Financial Markets, has been a failure. Till that money gets off the sidelines and out into the world, you ain't going to have any real recovery.

The President isn't going to be re-elected on Health Care reform, nor are the American People going to care that a half ass reform measure passed in 2010.

The same argument about the Health Insurance Companies can be said about the Too Big to Fail firms. The only difference, is not every American didn't just get screwed by their Health Insurance company all at once.

The it will never have happened argument is utterly ridiculous.

[TicketyBoo]

67. You have a double negative there,

not every American didn't just get screwed by their Health Insurance company all at once

but I think you mean, "every American didn't just get screwed by their Health Insurance company all at once." But it's the end of the year, the time when many premiums go up, and many Americans did just get screwed by their health insurance company (a 17% premium increase in our case; and others are even higher). Not only do higher premiums come at the end of the year (notifications just out within the past month), but often along with a higher premium notice comes a notice of a reduction in benefits--a double whammy.

You're probably right that the President won't get reelected on health care reform unless some very helpful measures go into effect quickly (which doesn't sound like it's going to happen). But I think a lot of people do care that something a little bit better is coming down the pike. I know I appreciate the fact that people are at least trying, even though it seems like they're spinning their wheels a lot of the time.

[AllentownJake]

70. The bill does not do much to address cost

It addresses coverage, people are still going to be dealing with premium increases for years.

In politics, you don't get points for trying to solve a problem.

[TicketyBoo]

76. Maybe not many points,

but a few.

It beats doing nothing, and quite a few people feel that way. Just as long as he doesn't come away with "no cigar," I don't think it will be a total loss.

[jpak]

72. More Defeatist anti-Obama Bullshit - and stupid

Taking on Health Care Reform is the second biggest politically time-urgent task on Obama's plate.

Passing the Stimulus Package was the first.

He HAS to get HCR passed before the 2010 election cycle starts, or it doesn't happen.

This is why he wanted to get it done in August.

The only angry revolt Obama faces are from PUMA-types that wanted him to fail from the start and are vigorously fomenting shit-stirring to bust-up party unity.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Hippo_Tron]

41. The financial reform bill proposed by the White House was good

The House Financial Services committee slashed it to pieces because they are all in somebody's pockets.

[AllentownJake]

43. The White House bill was adequate

Not good, Frank's committee turned it into nothing.

[olegramps]

55. Instead of a "Works Progress Administration" that was successful, what have we gotten?

Instead of pouring billions of dollars into the crooked banking system that has refused to to make loans and instead used our money to buy up more banking assets, President Obama could have taken the a chapter out of FDR's recovery program that averted a disastrous situation. The Work Progress Administration along with the National Youth Administration programs, CCC, provided over 8 million jobs during the 1930's and early 40's. There is hardly a city that didn't benefit from projects that were provided by these programs. These programs not only provided jobs for young people and adults, it actually provided improvements that are still being enjoyed over 70 years latter.

I won't look for any support for these programs from today's Republicans. The greedy bastards that make up today's Republican Party are a far cry from those of the 1930's who overwhelmingly supported and funded FDR's programs. That was when the Republican Party actually put the welfare of the nation before partisan politics. It is depressing to see far too many Democrats in bed with these immoral bastards.

Personally I don't see much hope for the nation and it appears that it is on a race to the bottom. It will soon be a plutocracy no different than the banana republics with the masses reduced to starvation wages. As Plato pointed out in his "Republic" a democracy can only survive when the the misfortune of one of its citizens is of intense concern to all. What you see in todays America is just the opposite. The wealthy class are not only actually gloating over their fellow citzens' misfortune but seizing it as opportunity to increase their own wealth. Just how long can this situation persist without the entire collapse of the Republic?

[TicketyBoo]

68. They really do need some of those programs.

The National Parks are crying out for improvements and more staff. That certainly should have been a part of that bill.

Our small city benefited from a CCC project which gave us our biggest city park which thrives to this day.

[bvar22]

59. There they go again.

Selfishly thinking of themselves.

They should be grateful that Obama kept all the failed Wall Street Bankers from clogging up the unemployment lines.

Unless there is "CHANGE", it will only going to get worse from here.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[democracy1st]

64. Wellstone was on the money with that priceless quote

[TicketyBoo]

69. Except for the fact

that, out here (in Nebraska), nearly all "family farmers" are Republicans.

Makes you shake your head in disbelief, but it's true.

[democracy1st]

71. thats where the rightwing propaganda machine comes in I'm sure Nebraska has very few if any

progressive radio stations or programming

[TicketyBoo]

75. It's always been that way.

One old farmer I knew who was a dyed-in-the-wool democrat said, "I don't know why all these farmers are Republicans. They must think they're rich."

Of course, they're not, not most of them. About the only rich farmers are the corporate farms.

We get Public Television and Bill Moyers out here, even over the air. Most places get all three major networks, and most farmers these days have satellite dishes.

It is the darnedest thing. I can't explain it. The religious right may have something to do with it. And the gun thing. Maybe I can explain it better than I thought I could.

I was born and raised here, but I feel like a fish out of water right in my own pond.

[democracy1st]

77. only thing I can come up with is that dems represent minorities,women,gays and the less fortunate

that philosophy called liberalism is what they can't stand. Having said that the majority of dems are still white.

[adamuu]

73. pigeonhole : To categorize; especially to limit or be limited to a particular category, role, etc.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pigeonhole

[Le Taz Hot]

74. Woah! What's that I see?

Is it . . . could it be . . . SPINES????????? :woohoo: to the CBC!!!!