I thought Tim Geithner and Larry Summers were bad choices and idiots

[AllentownJake]

Before it was cool.

Just saying

:evilgrin:

[branders seine]

1. Me too.

Got in BIG trouble in certain parts for saying it back then (before the big press conference introducing the economic team).

[AllentownJake]

3. I gave the benefit of the doubt till around February

:toast:

Than policy started coming out.

[rmann]

51. Insiders

Voice of the Masters calls

[branders seine]

53. The day he was named, I read Tim Geithner's resume

and said, "Oh shit."

[ProSense]

2. Will Obama fire them?

Will they resign?

Will they run the country into the ground?

Will they still be there when the economy rebounds and be credited for their actions?

Who knows?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

7. Nobody knows - it's just easy and popular to hate them

Nothing with the economy is happening any different than was predicted, yet the facts are irrelevant & they were in favor of keeping the big financial institutions from failing which is pure evil onto itself.

[AllentownJake]

9. You know what FDR did in exchange for saving the Financial Institutions in 1933

He fucking imposed regulations on their behavior.

[HughMoran]

12. Still plenty of time for that

ya know?

[AllentownJake]

14. No there isn't

You see, FDR regulated them on their knees. Barack is about to attack them standing on their feet. Which isn't going to end well.

[HughMoran]

17. ok

You are the know-it-all

[MrsCorleone]

38. Just curious. Why are you so certain? I see the usual RW financial press going after

Geitner hard.

[AllentownJake]

39. Probably for the opposite reasons I am

When things are slightly stabilizing in an industry it really isn't that productive to go for regulation.

Enron fell in December of 2001. SOX was enacted in June of 2002. They didn't put it off for a year, because they thought another piece of legislation was more important.

[MrsCorleone]

45. And, look at the ineffectiveness of SOX. It wasn't thought through thoroughly.

Geithner is making statements that the regulations enacted need to be thorough. This is freaking Wall St out, hence the flood of RW talking points calling for Geithner's head.

Is Geithner working for the good of us all or for the financial institutions? At this point, I don't know and neither do you really, unless you are privy to info that the rest of us are not.

:hi:

[AllentownJake]

46. SOX was actually originally pretty good

You have to remember all the bitching of costs that led to some provisions being taken out, and in any regulation, it is only as good as it's enforcement.

Pretty much every banking CEO and CFO could be in jail right now under SOX. The entire signing off on the internal control structure provisions...their controls, obviously not that good.

[AllentownJake]

22. Answer to your questions

Will they resign? Not till after the 2010 elections baring a real personal tragedy such as an illness of themselves or a family member, which I don't wish upon anyone. So probably not, resigning before the mid-terms would be a single that the administration was wrong on its economic policies in 2009 and that record is what people will be running on in 2010.

Will they run the country into the ground? The country already was run into the ground and in the case of Summers, his actions in the 1990s are a contributing factor. Tim Geithner was his protege back than so he helped. Bush took what they had set up and really did things no one could expect anyone to be stupid enough to allow, but the fought the controls that would have prevented that when they were in their last government jobs. Geithner also bares a huge amount of responsibility for his failures as a regulator during the Bush years.

Will they be credited? People will be writing books for the next 50 years till we fuck up at this level again on their actions and debate what was stupid and what was effective and how they could do things better. The biggest legacy these two will have is their anti-regulatory bias ideologically. The left will focus on that aspect of their plans not working out as intended and the right will focus on the moral hazard of the bailouts. Going back to FDR, he bailed out the banks in his first month in office, but he curtailed what they could do at the same time till he was able to create a regulatory framework. These two have been weak on the curtailing of activities.

So there is my honest not being a snarky asshole response.

Better get onto that Senate Bill, Rachel and Keith aren't happy.

[Warpy]

4. I concede I cringed

but thought at the time that considering what he had to choose from, they were probably the best we could do.

He really should have chosen an academic instead of a bunch of insider Wall Street Democrats. Too bad Krugman's too smart to want the job, but there are others.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Krugman was my dream team, too.

And I actually think that, if asked, he would have accepted it.

[AllentownJake]

11. They'd have had to put a shock collar on him

He has a bigger mouth for telling the truth by accident than Biden has.

[barb162]

21. Yes he does.

They'd end up firing him because of that.

[bikingaz]

29. Krugman never. He has never run anything of consequence

We don't need an academic - they generally have no genuine experience.
We don't need some one who is buddy-buddy with Wall Street bankers to hand out more of our cash.
We don't need a campaign donor.
We don't need a mid-level government employee who knows squat.

We need some one who can understands what Main Street needs to get the country moving with loans, jobs, tax subsidies, etc.

[AllentownJake]

31. It is the lower level employees that implement policies

Krugman would be ok, as long as he was given a competent Chief of Staff and had help in picking his under secretaries. If he doesn't have that, he'd be a disaster, of course, any executive who doesn't have that is generally a disaster.

Krugman would be more suited for Larry Summer's job.

[Sebastian Doyle]

5. Same here

I knew this "economic team" was a disaster the minute it was announced.

It's simply impossible to be part of a solution when you are part of the problem.

And the problem is Wall Street, the "federal" reserve, and the fellation of the DLC.

Time to start over with a whole new team not corrupted by that garbage.

[Dinger]

10. Off To Da Greatest Page Wita Ya!

That's Wisconsinese for "Off to the greatest page with you.":)

[Capn Sunshine]

13. I keep hoping you guys will understand

We really DO need The Street despite your tarring of the entire thing with the robber baron brush.
Congress would be better served LISTENING to Geither, who called for a LARGER Stimulus back then, and knows that more stimulus is needed.

Oh right, part of the "problem". We'll have Roubini run things.

[AllentownJake]

16. Yes and Geithner is an anti-regulation zealot

like his mentor Summers and Summers mentor Rubin. These guys just weren't zealous enough for the modern GOP.

You need Wall Street like the bacteria in your stomach, however when it gets out of control it can make you sick or even kill you.

[Capn Sunshine]

23. I disagree on the anti regulation zealotry of Geithner and Sommers

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner called for Congress to regulate all over-the-counter derivatives before a House hearing Friday.

“Our proposals have been carefully designed to provide a comprehensive approach,” Geithner said. “The plan will provide for strong regulation and transparency for all OTC derivatives, regardless of the reference asset, and regardless of whether the derivative is customized or standardized.”

As proposed last month by the Treasury Department, Geithner recommended that only standardized derivatives contracts be cleared -- and only through well-regulated central counterparties -- and executed either on regulated exchanges or regulated electronic trade execution systems, according to his testimony. But Geithner’s definition of standardized derivatives could eventually include nearly any derivatives contract.

“We will propose a broad definition of standardized OTC derivatives that will be capable of evolving with the markets and will be designed to be difficult to evade,” he said.

Geithner also endorsed conservative capital and margin requirements for dealers.

“Our plan will provide for strong supervision and regulation of all OTC derivative dealers and all other major participants in the OTC derivative markets,” he said.

That does not sound like an anti regulation zealot to me.

But good analogy on the stomach bacteria. Our financial system is like that.

[AllentownJake]

25. Alan Greenspan called for breaking up the Too Big to Fail a month ago

Back in the 1990s Geithner worked for Summers when Summers, Rubin, and Greenspan were fighting said proposals to the point of shutting down an attempt to do this by Brooksly Born.

His ideology is one based on low regulation. His history at the NY FED shows that.

Not calling for regulation after the world almost ended would be a little crazy don't you think? He found a little religion. I doubt he found that much of it or he is suddenly a convert of a regulated capitalist system.

[Capn Sunshine]

26. So that's what we want isn't it?

Someone with street cred who has seen God?

You can't discount his behavior since he became Sec Treas. because it doesn't fit the narrative.

[AllentownJake]

27. Some of his behavior yes, some no

He was the biggest person screaming NO, when the idea of compensation caps was kicked around.

I don't believe he had a shining light on the Road to Damascus moment.

Geithner will publicly support regulation right now, and the regulatory ideas he has and have sold is to give the FED more power.

He's going to have a fight on his hand with Chris Dodd in the Senate who wants to strip the FED of power.

Right now he has a credibility problem, and his actions during the AIG bailout have furthered that problem.

He can't go anywhere till after November 2010 politically, just like Rumsfeld couldn't go anywhere till November 2006 politically.

[RubyDuby in GA]

15. I thought most of the cabinet was wrong from Day 1

Starting with his 1st choice - Chief of Staff

I wanted my money back when he named that jackass and it only got worse from there...

[StarfarerBill]

18. Not really idiots, just not on our side.

They've worked very hard at being tools for the corporate Mob.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[barb162]

20. You and me both and I haven't changed my opinion. n/t

[waiting for hope]

24. Me too -

I think there are quite a few cabinet picks that were bad choices - especially when Darth Cheney approves of them.

[Thickasabrick]

28. I think they are both really smart but part of the old system that we

were going to change. Putting them in charge made it impossible to change. Stupid picks.

[anonymous171]

30. I thought they were OK choices and intelligent.

Unfortunately, I ended up being very very wrong.

[chill_wind]

32. I think

my Geithner diaries start around late Feb/March, with the beginning of some little transparency problems and a threat of subpoena from Sen Levin. Only a handful would ever comment, though, time and again. Like..one or two lol. It really wasn't a cool topic.

What do you think about this development?

Audit the FED Bill passes committee 43-26.

http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/11/19/paul-grayson-audit-the-fed-bill-passes-financial-services-committee/

[AllentownJake]

34. Good step

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7052147&mesg_id=7052147

I have no clue what the fuck the link I just posted above means. Investors are willing to take a negative yield vs. leaving their money in the financial system.

[autorank]

33. I was there - proud of it

:evilgrin:

1/9/09 - paras 4-6 http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0901/S00099.htm

5/29/09 - http://tinyurl.com/y968ptu (scathing;)

[theophilus]

35. You are a god. n/t

[jgraz]

36. I did, too. And we were both wrong.

Geithner and Summers are excellent choices -- as long as your main goal is fooling the credulous into supporting the never-ending Wall Street gravy train. Summers did it under Clinton, Geithner did it in New York, but they look just Democratic enough to give the apologists a toe-hold to spin their bullshit.

After all, Obama couldn't just re-appoint Hank Paulson. That would have given the whole game away.

[Greyhound]

41. Oh you sneaky, sneaky bastard, ya got me. n/t

[iceman66]

37. I've thought that since the day he appointed them.

I think that Obama will eventually switch gears on the economy, but if it doesn't happen soon, Geithner may end up being Obama's Rumsfeld.

[dflprincess]

43. The midterms are less than a year away

he better switch gears soon unless "in the spirit of bipartisanship" he wants to work with a Republican Congress.

[iceman66]

48. I agree.

It can't happen soon enough.

[Greyhound]

40. & retaining Bernanke, too. n/t

[GoCubsGo]

42. I was willing to give them a chance.

They blew that chance. Time for them to go.

[slipslidingaway]

44. knr .... me too ...

Summers to Join Obama White House, Boosts Fed Chances
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4515237&mesg_id=4515237

http://www.newyorkfed.org/newsevents/speeches/2007/gei070323.html

"...These concerns have been heightened in some quarters by the problems currently being experienced in the subprime mortgage sector. It will take some time before the full implications are understood and the full impact can be assessed. As of now, though, there are few signs that the disruptions in this one sector of the credit markets will have a lasting impact on credit markets as a whole...

By spreading risk more broadly, providing opportunities to manage and hedge risk, and making it possible to trade and price credit risk, credit market innovation should help make markets both more efficient and more resilient..."


Geithner - Not in favor of banning naked credit default swaps
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=290531&mesg_id=290531

[chill_wind]

50. You go waaay back, ssa...

and never dropped the ball.


:thumbsup:

[slipslidingaway]

52. You and others do as well....

:hi:

[blindpig]

47. Bad choices? Guess it depends on the objective...

Seems like Wall St likes them just fine.

People get what they pay for.

[saracat]

49. i always thought the appointment of those that lent a lot to

architect the recession was a bad idea.No new ideas entered the mix and the old weren't working.