restaurants and waiters' wages

[justabob]

Everytime there is a thread about restaurant service, people chime in saying they wish restaurants would just raise their prices and pay the waitstaff minimum wage. I am curious what other waiters/restaurant people think especially, but I am curious what the general public thinks too.

I have worked in many roles in restaurants for the better part of 15 years and have always been conflicted on this. As it stands, I currently make $2.25 an hour plus tips at a higher-end casual dining place, mom & pop cafe. I average about 10-15 dollars an hour working 3-4 hours a day. We have had to raise prices something like 3-4 times in the last two years because of the incredible increases in food costs we had, especially last year. I do not think we can raise prices again; we are already pushing the boundaries of what people will pay for fancy-ish breakfast, sandwiches, and salads. If Cafe X, where I work, had to pay wait staff $7.00+ an hour I am certain we would have to shut down. If we didn't shut down, we would be running with far fewer waiters and service would definitely suffer, and on top of that I don't think it would make the waiters happy either. Unless it is completely dead, we do better at the 2.13/hr+ tips rate and the restaurant makes more money too. I really think the prices would have to be raised more than 18-20% (the going tip rate in our neighborhood) in order to accomodate that (especially if you don't want to start buying shitty frozen stuff from Sysco/BEK et al to cut costs).

I guess my question is this.... how much would you be willing to pay to go out to eat in order to have the waitstaff make more than a couple of bucks an hour? Oh! And if there are any waiters reading, would you work your job for minimum wage vs the current set up? What say you, DU?

[Brickbat]

1. I spend as much at union restaurants as I do at non-union restaurants.

The prices are generally about the same at restaurants that serve pretty much the same food and have the same clientele, where I'm at.

[doc03]

6. There are Union restaurants, never heard of such a thing n/t

[justabob]

9. me either, but I am in Texas

Unions are few and far between down here.

[Brickbat]

10. Up here in the promised land, there are some.

Minnesota. :hi:

[doc03]

11. Wow I honestly didn't know there was any such thing n/t

[Brickbat]

13. It's the R in HERE.

Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees. In most places, if the hotel is union, the restaurant/s at the hotel are union as well, and in some places (such as a few in Minnesota, and in larger cities), stand-alone restaurants are organized as well.

[CreekDog]

2. In California the base wage cannot be less than minimum

the $2.13/hr is not legal here.

in San Francisco, minimum wage is $9.82/hr I believe.

[LynneSin]

3. Hell NO would I want minimum wage as a waitresses, I lived on my tips for 3 years

Seriously, if you are a good waiter, you should easily pull in 20% off your bills. You'll end up tipping out to the other staff about 3-5% (busboys, runners, bartenders) but can still make a great salary far higher than minimum wage.

[justabob]

19. yeah, that is where I am too

I sure wouldn't do what I do for less than $10 an hour. I wish I could work more hours, but I love the flexibility and the money per hour is *usually* pretty decent, even with tipouts. There are days when you only make $30 bucks, but you are only there for a couple of hours.

[Johonny]

37. I think it depends on the place

My good actor/comedian friends do a lot of waiting and their ability to make good on tips depends heavily on the kind of place that they work at. A good high end place can net you tips that will clearly pay you better than minimum. Terrible chain places where they pool tip money/ or you receive almost no tips can make you work long hours for close to minimum.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

4. If waiters made double the wage (ohio tipped vs min wage) then

people would likely tip half as much - I probably would. Waiting just TWO $20 tables in one hour would get you $8 @ 20% and $4 @ 10% tip rate. So I'd guess a waiter would loose about $4/hr in tips just to get an extra $3.65 in taxed wages. Not very smart. The only waiters this might help are waiters @ midnight shifts or unpopular restaraunts.

Ohio min wage is $7.30 and tipped min wage is $3.65
It's always been about a 2:1 ratio here.

[Posteritatis]

5. Wait staff in my neck of the woods get at least minimum wage

The restaurant owners' whine about every two years over the fact that they have to pay their staff at all, but it never gets anywhere.

[sharp_stick]

7. Depends on where you work

a decent restaurant, like you're at, you can pull in pretty decent tips as long as it's busy and you don't get stuck working on flatware too often.

The poor people working at Friendly's, Denny's etc. don't seem to pull in anywhere near the same tip average. Hell, I know one lady working at a Denny's who ran out to thank me after I gave her a 20% tip. Maybe it was just that restaurant but the tips really seem to be lower.

[justabob]

18. yes, that matters too

I am very fortunate where I am, nice restaurant serving an affluent community. I could never do the Denny's thing. I work breakfast, but we charge ridiculously high prices for eggs & cakes etc and most people tip the standard 20%, which is pretty rare for breakfast.

[doc03]

8. They raised prices 3 or 4 times last year due to

food prices primarily caused by the high fuel costs. Why haven't food prices gone down this year?

[justabob]

12. always slower to go down than up

plus other costs have increased.... Beer went up a lot recently etc. But there are other factors in play at Cafe X, where I am. I am pretty sure the last two increases in prices are in effort to save our third location that opened two years ago because it has been an unexpected money pit, problem after problem there. Our two established locations have had their profits go to keeping the third store open. I am not in management anymore, so I am not entirely sure.

[doc03]

16. I suspect for the same reason that hiring is the

last thing businesses do after a recession.

[SoCalDem]

14. the ratchet effect.. every ratchet up defines the new "floor"

if people are used to paying $15, and the price goes up "temporarily" to $18 & they get used to it, most places will not ever go back to $15 again..

I would just like to see restaurants offer two sizes of meals.. Regular & half..they could even charge 2/3 for the 1/2 size & probably still make money:)

We always take the extra home, but lots of people do not & so much food gets wasted.

[Gormy Cuss]

15. I live in CA where servers are paid the minimum wage.

I believe it's about $8.00 at the state level, and some cities have higher minimums like San Francisco where it's almost $10.00. Some of the fast food joints and low end chains do charge a bit more here, but it's not that big of a difference. For the sit down restaurants, the entree prices are maybe $2-$5 more than in other areas of the country where I visit, but it's hard to say how much of that is related to the cost of paying minimum wage and how much is related to other costs, like the space rent, taxes, and in the case of San Francisco, the mandated employer contribution for health insurance.

There are plenty of restaurants here, even mom & pop places in the one horse towns.

Servers also get standard tips averaging about 15-20% for good (not exemplary) service, and since tabs are a bit higher that percent translates into more money in tips.

So to answer your question, I'm apparently paying what it takes to give the waitstaff a guarantee of at least minimum wage and it suits me just fine.

[LeftyMom]

36. Same here. I haven't noticed meals being any cheaper out of state, either.

:shrug:

I'm going to Oregon next week, I sure haven't noticed prepared food there being any cheaper (other than the lack of sales tax for take-out) on previous trips but I'll make a point of finding comparable items and comparing.

[justabob]

38. I wish I knew what the profits are

and the margins. Several people have mentioned that prices in high wage markets are inline with us 2.13 wage markets and I just don't see how that is possible without making unacceptable cuts elsewhere. Especially since rents are surely much higher in those markets as well. (I am assuming based on the fact cities like NYC and SanFrancisco have much higher wages for waiters based on cost of living). I am not trying to deny what I am being told, just trying to figure it out. :)Any west coast restaurant managers out there?

It is hard because the only place I have management experience (and a look at the numbers) is CafeX and it is unlike any other restaurant I have ever worked at.... totally eccentric and backasswards from any corporate stint I have done.... Cafe X is the anti-corporate poster child - it is organized chaos, and until the economy blew up, wildly successful.

on edit... y'all still have to tip even with waiters making that wage too, right? That is the second part... waiters won't do it for minimum wage, well most wouldn't.

[Gormy Cuss]

44. Yes, as noted above we tip.

Separate from paying the full minimum is the argument of doing away with tips for normal service (that is, tipping people who are just doing their jobs adequately.)

If we moved to a default where tips were unusual, only for extraordinary service, the incentive for servers would have to be provided by management via merit pay just as it is in other industries. For example, a beginning waiter may be paid the minimum wage. A good waiter may make 20% more than that and still get a few tips from customers. A great waiter may make 50% more and garner a lot of tips.

Why would the management give higher base pay to good and great waiters? Because they want to retain the staff who turn one time customers into regulars and who help build the restaurant's reputation as a comfortable place to eat, just as they want to keep those good cooks in the kitchen producing the food.

The obvious benefit to servers is that pay isn't wholly based on whether your customers are cheapskates or spendthrifts, in a good mood or cranky, et cetera. Your boss would be responsible for actually paying you based on your value to the restaurant.

[Gormy Cuss]

43. IIRC though OR is like CA and servers are paid full minimums.

Where I've had enough time to really notice it is when I go back to Boston. MA has a waiter subminimum wage and stand alone independents tend to charge $1-$2 less per entree than here. Mid-range restaurants, no noticeable difference. Again, it's really hard to know how much of that is attributable to the lower server costs and how much is a function of other business costs like rent and state/local taxes and fees. Boston is a high cost market in general but in the specifics of food service I don't know enough to tease out a comparison to here.

[southernyankeebelle]

17. I have a son that works at a nice restuarant as a cook for 10 yrs or more.

He has to wait for a raise and he had 2 weeks vacation time. Now they took away one week vacation from all the employees. They have to make sure they can at least get 32 hrs a week to make sure they get one paid week vacation. They get no sick leave. He pays almost $400.00 a per month in health insurance. If my husband and I didn't help him I don't know what he would do. He isn't the type that goes out drinking and partying. He doesn't have a phone or even a TV. He has one child who he shares with his ex. He is such a good daddy. I hope things start getting better for everyone. The way I see it he still has a job.

[MidwestRick]

20. Not sure

what the wait staff makes here. I start their tips off at 20% and deduct from there.

[Sabriel]

21. You're still making $2.25?

Geeeeeez, I made $2.00 back in 1988, when I quit serving. That's a crime.

To answer the question, as a former server, I'd love it for servers to make more base pay. And I'd also rather hustle for tips than make a straight wage. But that's because I believe in tipping well for good service, something not everyone does.

[justabob]

22. yeah, wages haven't gone up AT ALL

Seems like waiter pay used to be tied to min wage... back when I started waiting tables in 1990 the waiter rate was half of minimum wage. I guess when they decided to raise the minimum wage recently, waiters were excluded. I don't know. I would much rather be making 3.75 (or whatever half of current min is), but I don't want to give up tips either.... but I am a good waitress. :)

[tyedyeto]

39. Here in Arizona, the minimum wage was increased above the federal minimum

in January of 2007. When it went into effect, tipped positions can be paid up to $3 per hour less than the minimum. As of now, the minimum is $7.25 so tipped position wages have to be at least $4.25 per hour. If you make less than minimum, the employer is supposed to pay at least the set minimum wage. BUT... it is not based on daily wages/tips but weekly. So, if you have a really shitty tip day and a good one the next, it cancels out the shitty one.

I moved from California where you got the entire minimum and was appalled by the wages here. But it is much better than when I moved here and was making $2.15 per hour as a server. Of course, all sidework before and after your shift was paid at the lesser amount and that could add up to 2 hours of working when no tips are earned because the restaurant is closed.

It sucks to work for tips in states like this.

[justabob]

41. ahhh sidework

Yeah, sidework is a bitch, definitely cuts into the hourly average, especially when you work somplace where roughly 25% of the waiters actually do all of it for the group. Sigh. On our crew at Cafe X, there are about 3-4 of us who actually do the sidework, whether it is setup/close or running stuff like stocking glassware and ice and plates etc during the shift. Nevermind running hot food....:eyes:

Since you were in CA at one point, do you have any insight how they are able to pay such high rates for waiters, and still be profitable.... assuming it isn't the hottest cafe in town with waits for hours. Did you have gigantic stations, and run with a short staff or what? Are there less guys working on the line BOH? Perhaps I am dense, but I don't see where the money comes from to pay the waiters that much, unless the cafes are making much bigger profits than I ever figured, which is always possible. :)

[justabob]

23. .

kick for the evening crowd

[juno jones]

24. In WA waitstaff recieve full minimum wage, around $8 an hour.

The restaurant prices here don't seem to be out of line with the rest of the country.

But yeah, the gas gouge of a couple of years back really took a toll on food costs and the food prices and service charges for delivery haven't gone down again even tho gas did. It does put a lot of stress on smaller places.

[justabob]

26. that is part of why I wanted to ask the question

A few places, mostly on the west coast, have much higher wages, but apparently the restaurants do alright. I am curious how they are able to do it. I suspect some of the food costs are lower in California because that is the origin for so much of the produce and if you don't have to ship it 1000 miles it helps, but that can't be all of it.

The food cost thing last year was incredible. We rationed lemons! No lemons in water unless requested. Sometime we didn't buy blueberries and raspberries for months at a time because the cost was just too high to bear. It is better now, but it took a toll. Our owners tried to ride it out for a long time, but the had to raise prices repeatedly to get over it. We have some other things going on that have added extra burdens that have made further increases necessary, but food costs last year started the downward spiral. I feel for our owners. They are trying really hard to keep all three cafes open and profitable.... and they don't want to be responsible for dozens of people being out of work(if our newest store closes). Obviously they want to make money too, but they DO give a shit about their employees.

[Capn Sunshine]

25. Can't help but think those complaining don't like to tip

How else to explain it? The tipping system evolved because ther variation in tipping is wholly up to the guest. And tipped service experts know this. Someone totally cool like Lynnsin probably averages a lot more in both sales and tips. All tipped employees put up with the occasional stiff. It's part of the romance of the biz. :)

[justabob]

27. no doubt that is part of it

I wanted to bring this up for a number of reasons, not least of which is because so many people are oblivious to how restaurants work, and how waiters work. It is not so simple as paying people minimum wage. I guarantee the level of service will go WAY down if waiters were on a flat minimum wage and no tips. I left a job paying 8.50 an hour to beg my 2.25+tips job back because I had the power to control (to a certain extent) what I make. I am a good waiter though, and I care if you get your food right and on time, and refills etc. I think, the bottom line is that there are so many levels of restaurants that there is no cure-all.

[Fool Count]

28. In Australia the minimum wage is about $15/hour and that is how much

all waiters make here. Of course, they expect no tips and very few customers pay any. I can't say that, if the tips are taken into account,
australian restaurants on average are any more expensive than american ones. Just pay your waiters a living wage and get rid of that
bizarre tipping "culture" - everybody wins this way. I must admit, I have no idea how profit expectations of australian restaurant owners
compare with those of their american colleagues. That may throw off this whole calculation.

[Ter]

40. Depends

$15 an hour is good for Denny's, but some high end servers wouldn't wipe their ass with $15 an hour. These people can make a few hundred dollars per day.

[nikkos_71]

29. From my experience

making $2+tips is much more desired to making minimum wage. What I have a problem with is people espousing what they believe to be true in that we make SOOOO much money. For the amount of work we do, I feel we deserve the money we make. The big money making night of $200 makes up for the last 4 shifts where I barely made 40 dollars. Besides, the general public is not aware that we have people on our payroll we have to pay. For example, I have to tip out a food runner, a silverware roller, a bartender, a busser and a coffee bar person. What people don't realize is that along with the rise in cost for the cost of living so too the rise in the tip. It is so archaic to still tip 15%. The bare minimum should be 18% and the "norm" should be 20%. If you can't afford to tip then don't go out to eat. I bust my ass to ensure you have everything you need and more often before you even know you need it. The tip is To Insure Proper Service and if you get good service then 18-20% should suffice but if you get excellent service then by all means 20-25% should be expected. I can tell you that if I got minimum wage you would get minimum service. That's just being honest.

[justabob]

35. right, tip sharing is another consideration

Most people don't understand about tipshare. Just about every person working in the dining room gets a bit off the waiters. 1% here 2% there... it adds up. I have had to share over 50 dollars of my tips with bar/bus/runners on a good day. It is significant.

on edit....

What do you think about paying bussers/bar a bit more so waiters wouldn't have to payout so much? I'd rather the busser take home the same amount of money, but paid by the company rather than the waiters. That would have less effect on the overall labor cost than raising waiter pay, and would raise waiter pay by a percentage point or two.

[EndersDame]

30. California Pizza Kitchen Pays its Cali Employees 8.25 and its TX employees 2.13

I worked in Texas at CPK. There were some other waitresses from Cali that said they made $8.25 an hour plus tips. They said the restaurant did better because they had a low turnover and didnt spend as much on training and had better repeat business. I believe the prices are just about the same in both locations and clearly they were not hurt in Cali

[justabob]

31. It is a lot easier with a national company I think

But I am really curious what the profit margins are in TX vs CA, for example, and how restaurants are able to keep food quality up, and costs down to compensate for the added labor costs. I have never understood that. Different business models I guess, but I don't know how you can pay waiters so much if you are also prepping fresh food vs having frozen, premade shit trucked in from corporate. The managers I worked for at On the Border would freak out if labor was more than 12%. Where I am now the benchmark is 30% for labor.

[EndersDame]

42. I would figure there are probably plenty of thriving local restaurants in California

It probably is harder the first few years and the owners probably take in less profit for themselves. But then again from what I hear most people in min wage + tips states take waiting tables more seriously than we do here(I am sure you do but for many they are throw away jobs as evidence by the extremely high turnover rate) and spend fewer $$ on training and employee related problems

[astral]

32. I totally believe in tipping over the expected amount

but I don't eat out all the time. So many people either don't think tipping is mandatory for THEM, or they think the total amount on the table already has an effect on how much more THEY should add.

I get indigestion going out with a group of people and having the waiter want to put us all on the same check so we can calculate it out. I want my tip to be credited to my meal, and if I want to tip $3-$4 for my lunch I don't want someone else thinking that means they only have to throw in a dollar -- or not -- for theirs.

Maybe this is a regional thing. I know, though, that waiters / waitresses can be cheated out of their fair share of tips if they want to write one check for one table of a group of people -- of course if there is no mandatory gratuity involved.

My minimum exposure to restaurant work makes me even more appreciate of waitstaff and how hard they work. Even if someone isn't any good at what they are doing, if I can see they are trying I still tip them nice, and even if they are a rude POS I still tip them nice enough. I remember getting tipped out by the waitresses when I worked as a hostess/busser and I would usually end up with $5 a day (part time work) and I appreciated it because that was a meal's worth of money. If I got more than that I was especially blessed.

I know restaurants generally work on a paper-thin profit margin so I don't know what to think of the way-less-than minimum wage they pay waitstaff in general. Don't waiters and waitresses still get taxed on an 'assumed' amount of tips besides?

[justabob]

34. yes about taxes

Where I work the computer won't let you clock out unless you have claimed at least what you earned in credit card tips. I believe the IRS assumes 12% of what your sales are to be your income, but I have no idea how they check that, besides an audit. Somedays I have to claim more than I actually made because of tipsharing with bar/bussers/runners as others have mentioned. Granted sometimes there are cash heavy days where you make more than the computer knows(rare in the age of debit/credit), but it usually evens out over time.

[DU GrovelBot]

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