Where did this new pic of KSM come from?

[Dennis Donovan]

And, why is it now being used instead of this one:



Is there an effort on to make him "look scarier" because of the legal decision? The bottom pic makes him look like the batshit-crazy buffoon he is. Just something I've noticed...

[rockymountaindem]

1. Beard Enthusiast Quarterly?

[Jackpine Radical]

6. I'm not really sure if

he combed his face hair down or his body hair up.

[undeterred]

8. ...

:rofl:

[Amy6627]

45. Good one! Or maybe "Crazed Lunes Monthly". n/t

[Atman]

2. That's not even the same person.

Different nose, different eyebrows, different cheeks. NOT the same pic.

.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. That's what I thought! Something is very strange about the emergence of this new pic...

:shrug:

[phasma ex machina]

61. Occam's Razor indicates M$M stupidity. nt

[SteppingRazor]

3. The top photo was taken in July 2009. The bottom one in 2003.

Obviously, the more-recent photo is going to be the preferred photo in most journalistic outlets.

[Dennis Donovan]

7. He looks like that NOW?

After being tortured for years?:shrug:

[SteppingRazor]

9. Yes.

Incidentally, the photo was taken by the Red Cross, so unless you think the ICRC, long a critic of our policy in Guantanamo, is now involved in some sort of cover-up there...


On edit: Also, it's worth noting that the current photo certainly matches the only other visuals of KSM to surface: the courtroom sketches of the military tribunal:
http://gothamist.com/2008/06/06/accused_911_mas.php

[Atman]

23. To say that sketch "matches" the photo is ridiculous.

It's practically a cartoon of a generic 'terr'ist.

.

[SteppingRazor]

30. No, ridiculous is saying that...

Despite the fact that a long-time critic of our prison in Guantanamo admits to having taken the picture, despite the fact that the picture resembles courtroom sketches, and despite all other evidence to the contrary, this is some weird conspiracy, based solely on the fact that a picture taken six years, almost two hundred torture sessions, and god knows how many pounds ago doesn't seem to resemble the recent picture. :tinfoilhat:

[Dennis Donovan]

42. I don't think anyone, including myself, thinks the Red Cross took the pics to frame him

...my question is "why is this pic being used EVERYWHERE all of a sudden?"

[Atman]

58. And my question is...

Why is a very loose pastel rendering of a man with a beard being compared to a portrait-studio photos as some sort of proof that it's the same man?

My point is, if you look closely -- CLOSELY -- at the two photos, the most basic facial features are simply DIFFERENT. In the top photo, the very structure of the man's face, the lines of his cheeks, are just not the same as those of the man in bottom pic. The line of the eyebrows -- not just the bushiness or the thickness, the actual shape of the eyebrows -- is different.

No tin-foil hat here. There could be, if you want to start a new thread. But I'm just pointing out what I feel is obvious, without passing any other judgement. As a professional who has drawn hundreds upon hundreds of faces from photos, these two photos are not of the same man.

.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

12. Maybe they put itching powder in the robes.

[notadmblnd]

10. Really? They dressed him up like that while residing at Gitmo

What? they have a picture day there just like at school? I thought their uniforms were orange jumpsuits:shrug:

[SteppingRazor]

11. No, they allow the Red Cross to photograph all the detainees.

The Red Cross then sent these photos to KSM's family, one or several of whom then leaked the photos to pro-al Qaeda sites, where the photos surfaced late this summer. The Red CRoss has confirmed that they took the photos. All of this was reported, at length, a couple months ago.

See here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/09/10/2009-09-10_experts_warn_new_khalid_sheikh_mohammed_gitmo_photos_being_used_to_inspire_attac.html

Here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/new-khalid-sheik-mohammed_n_281009.html

Et al.

[notadmblnd]

14. so your answer is yes, they do dress them up for picture day.

[SteppingRazor]

16. Yeah, pretty much. It's not really in the military's interests...

to let the Red Cross photograph a bedraggled, sickly, tortured fellow in an orange jumpsuit.

[notadmblnd]

19. Why not? They've done it thousands of time before

It can't be because they're trying to win the hearts and minds of the enemy now, can it?

[SteppingRazor]

21. That, or they don't want their prison camp shut down...

and are trying to win hearts and minds at the Pentagon and in the White House.

[Dennis Donovan]

46. At least their Moms aren't there slicking down their hair with spit...

:D

[Atman]

13. Where the hell was the top photo taken in 2009?

They dressed him in at Gitmo and took his nice picture against a clean white background? I mentioned differences in his face -- does anyone really believe that KSM used to trim off nearly half his eyebrows back in 2003? Look closely -- mouth, cheeks, nose, all are different in each pic. VERY suspect.

.

[notadmblnd]

15. shaving eyebrows must have been one of their torture tactics

:sarcasm: I agree, it's not the same man.

[SteppingRazor]

17. Once again, this photo matches the only other recent picture of KSM...

that being the courtroom sketches:

http://gothamist.com/2008/06/06/accused_911_mas.php


And again, this was all reported out a couple months ago. The Red Cross has admitted taking the picture. The military would certainly want their detainees to look well-fed/cared for.

[JackRiddler]

39. How did the Red Cross confirm it's the same KSM as the one killed in 2002...

oops, sorry, captured in 2003? My bad.

Because they'd have no means of confirmation. They are told they may visit a prisoner under conditions dictated by the prison. Possibly they get to briefly interview whoever it is, and they take a picture. They're not an investigative agency, they're not going to ask if it's really who the prison says it is.

Which means, if anyone has doubts whether this is the "real" KSM, that doesn't mean they're casting suspicion on the Red Cross.

Even if it's physically the real person, six years of solitary and torture by an entity that's been doing experiments in mind control for 50 years may have made him someone else altogether.

[eShirl]

different angle, better lighting, better clothes, better personal grooming, not drugged or groggy

[brendan120678]

22. The nose looks the same...

just taken at a different angle.

The top photo is almost straight ahead, while the photo (which IIRC was taken right after he was arrested in the middle of the night) is more from above and to the viewer's right (his left). The height and tip of the noses look about the same. As for the rest of his face, it's difficult to determine because of the beard.

[Atman]

26. No, it is much wider on the person in the top photo.

Look at the shape of his cheeks and the angle of the "parenthesis" on either side of his mouth. Unless he was smiling widely in the top photo, which he's not, he'd have similar contours to his face. Also, the nose, IMHO, doesn't look the same at all. It is wider/fatter in the top photo.

.

[imdjh]

5. For some reason, the top photo reminds me of Annie Lennox

But between the two photos, I think he looks more sympathetic in the top. Taking a guess at the answer to your question, I would think that some flunky at the news was assigned to determine whether most celebrity and/or political defendants were shown in their mugshot, drug induced stupor, or glamour shot and glamour shit was the winner.

[Rhiannon12866]

18. The new photo looks like a clip-art photo of a "terrorist."

It doesn't look particularly real, but it does resemble the scariest being on the planet... Osama bin Laden. So it's being aired at every possible opportunity... :scared:

Did he pose for it? Sure looks like it. :shrug:

[Dennis Donovan]

36. Straight from Central Casting...

:D

[Rhiannon12866]

56. Exactly!

There's something just too perfect about it, definitely posed... And it looks like Osama bin Laden, not the undershirt-clad guy in the pic we're used to seeing... :shrug:

[bikingaz]

62. From the annual Gitmo yearbook perhaps?

eom

[Rhiannon12866]

65. Behind that beard, he could be anybody...

I did know kids at school who tried to confuse things by switching identities. For my ID pic at boarding school, I wore white makeup and borrowed some thick glasses. :silly:

Welcome to DU, bikingaz! It's great to have you with us! :bounce:

[kenny blankenship]

20. his Facebook page?

[thenooch]

24. That's a nice beard....

only a diet filled with pork/shellfish can grow a Jerry Garcia envious beard...

either way, he gets whats coming.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

25. When the new picture appeared on the front page of my

newspaper, I mentioned to my husband they had made a mistake. These pictures are not of the same person.

Very strange.

[orwell]

27. I like the Belushi photo...

...the bottom one.

I can just hear him yelling Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!

I miss John...

[sabra]

28. ABC News reported a few years ago that the CIA changed his appearance for propaganda use

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/09/how-the-cia-bro.html



<snip>

And just yesterday, an intelligence source told ABC News that the dapper man behind the most successful terror plot against America was not rumpled and disheveled when he was apprehended. He was as well-kept as ever.

But the CIA, conscious of the propaganda value of appearance, messed his hair and pulled his shirt from his pants, leaving us with the image of KSM we have today, and according to days of NSA intercepts, leaving his fellow al Qaeda terrorists chagrined over the changes to their esteemed colleague.

[Dreamer Tatum]

29. So, if you're being tried by the Great Satan, do you show up looking like Ron Jeremy at 3am

...or do you show up in full regalia, including flowing robes and beard?

He's going to be Islamic Irving for the trial. This will burnish the meme that we are putting Islam on trial.

Prepare for your orbital muscles to get a real workout on this one.

[Heddi]

31. it makes him look more like Osama Bin Laden

even though most USAAmericans are rather blah about OBL (didn't we catch him? didn't he die, etc), it's an Emanuel Goldstein face that has been shown and shown and shown for the last 8 years to drum up hate and fear, and to froth us into supporting war and destruction.

When people see the bottom picture they think RON JEREMY ha ha ha oh funny that guy doesn't look too horrible.

The top picture, though:

1) typical "muslim" dress
2) OBL style face and beard
3) Much more scary than the hairy hedgehog in the bottom picture


It's also a more recent picture, however, I don't think that it's being shown because of some sudden surge of journalistic integrity to show only the most recent and relevant images. I think it's being shown for the psychological affect such a figure, such dress, such a beard has on people.

The bottom picture has lost it's oomph. Been photoshopped, laughed at.

The top picture--that's scary. Reminds me of someone, someone we hate, someone who hurt us, hurt our country....Much more effective in drumming up negative support.

[Dennis Donovan]

34. Ding ding!

:thumbsup:

[DU GrovelBot]

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[doc03]

33. The old John Belushi look alike picture isn't

scary, now you show a guy with a beard and a rag on his head that is scary.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

35. Damn. I wouldn't have the patience to grow my beard that long.......

I'd be afraid of something taking up residence in it.

[Stinky The Clown]

37. I'm kinda on the flip side ..... why do we hear "KSM" all the time. It comes off to me as a ......

..... too-familiar moniker that makes him less scary.

I don't see him as scary, but if that's the choice ......

[Dennis Donovan]

48. I dunno, STC...

:D

[Stinky The Clown]

55. ....

;)

[SoCalDem]

38. Because the first one looks like Osama bin Laden

and we must all be afraid...run away run away

These guys should be clean-shaven, and dressed in orange jumpsuits.. their "power" partly comes from their persona...strip them all down to the generic criminal, and they lose their power.

[JackRiddler]

40. Looks to me like the contrary.

They want this image to go out, like this.

[HughMoran]

41. He looks like the Muslim Jesus now

:shrug:

Are we that creepy about people with long beards and Middle Eastern clothing?

[Dennis Donovan]

44. We, as in the USA?

Yep...;)

[HughMoran]

49. The US of (BIGOT) A

:)

[crazyjoe]

43. snap, torture has done wonders for him

[Amy6627]

47. He was a runner up to Johnny Depp for People's Sexiest Man Alive. n/t

[Dennis Donovan]

50. He's a Chic Sheik...

:D

[Amy6627]

51. Very nice! n/t

[Canuckistanian]

52. He looks like a ruling Sheikh

Or a Royal Saudi Prince.

Was that intentional?

[Generator]

53. Are you sure that turban one isn't Sacha Baron Cohen

aka BORAT? I think zo.

[Dennis Donovan]

54. The fact that it's even possible is a testament to both the campiness of the pic...

...and to Sacha's talents.;)

[spanone]

57. glamour magazine? sheikh quarterly????

he's quite groomed....maybe it's guantanamo's graduating class???

[FarLeftFist]

59. The top one would make a nice profile pic for his facebook page.

I didn't know terrorists did photoshoots.

[Rhiannon12866]

60. As for the bottom pic, the largest of the three...

What is that? Ghostly images of 9/11 victims, coming back to haunt him? That's definitely the scariest photo of the three... :scared:

[spanone]

63. top pic looks like professional make-up job/lighting etc.

[yurbud]

64. because the tee shirt photo made him look like a pizza maker with a hang over

[dreamnightwind]

66. Looks like the same guy to me...

I know that wasn't your point, but so many posting here say it looks like someone else. I stared at them awhile (aaarrrrghhhh!) and decided they look like the same guy. Now to get his pic out of my psyche, maybe a sinus rinse will do it...

Excellent post (#28 above), thanks Sabra! I hadn't heard that info, how they prepped him to look like the Belushi/Ron Jeremy pic (way too funny, Belushi and Ron Jeremy). Sad that they did this, let his appearance speak for itself, we need real info not central casting icons.

[HamdenRice]

67. An explanation for why the military "allowed" KSM to look like a Mullah

It's important to keep in mind that many detainees at Gitmo continue to be engaged in forms of "resistance." You might think this is impossible, especially if you can only conceive of the view of Gitmo that involves torture and absolute control of detainees. Even in these circumstances, dedicated people carve out whatever forms of resistance they can. I was very good friends with a man who spent many years in Robben Island (South Africa's political prison) with Nelson Mandela and dozens of other prisoners, and in a similar way the prison becomes the focus of the struggle despite what would seem the overwhelming odds.

Keep in mind that in an attempt to sanitize Gitmo, the later Bush administration and Obama administration allowed for less harsh treatment, and above all, respect for the prisoners' religious beliefs. By framing their appearance as a religious matter, it seems it was possible for some of them to "self represent" themselves as mullahs. KSM has clearly created an image of himself as a "holy man" for the benefit of the other prisoners, and for the benefit of anyone on the outside who gets to see his image.

The bottom picture, you may recall, is KSM at the time of his arrest. His hands are tied or handcuffed behind is back, and this was just after a raid on a house in Pakistan.