How to Avoid Unnecessary Car Costs

[Swede]

Just a PSA

Jon Bartunek, owner of his family’s Union Street Garage in San Francisco who has worked in the car repair business since he was ten years old, has some empowering tips and guidelines to offer.

“Many car repair shops are in the business of selling auto repair, not the business of repairing autos,” says Bartunek. “Keep in mind that any good shop is a combination of both, but you want the mechanic you work with to have your best interest in mind.”


http://www.mint.com/blog/how-to/how-to-avoid-unnecessary-car-costs/

[liberal N proud]

1. Finding a mechanic you trust can be difficult

And when you find one, you hang on to them with everything you can.

I moved to my current location 10 years ago, I was more interested in finding a good mechanic than doctor. My wife didn't understand.

I found one by luck. This guy keeps my old cars running, he knows which ones I need road ready and which ones we are just keeping on the road safely.

Example, my youngest daughters car exhaust broke. This guy welded it vs. another place that would have wanted the whole exhaust replaced. $25 vs $1000 for a 20 year old car.

When you have found a mechanic or shop you are comfortable with and they are reasonable make sure you tip the guy working on your car.

He will want to work on your car next time and you will get priority treatment.

[tridim]

2. DIY is the only sure way to avoid getting scammed.

And it's much easier than most people think. $50 in basic tools can save you thousands of dollars over the lifetime of a car.

[MineralMan]

3. Sure. You can do simple stuff with your $50 toolkit.

Change oil, filters, install a new battery and things like that. However, beyond basic maintenance, today's cars aren't really suitable for home repairs, in most cases. In fact, even figuring out what is wrong is a tough nut for home mechanics.

Add another $250 to that tool kit and you can do more, but you can also get yourself in major trouble...unless you know what you're doing.

People with the knowledge to do car repairs already have the tools. People can buy all the tools they want, but the knowledge is harder to come by, and anything beyond simple diagnosis and repair require much more of an investment.

The best the typical auto owner can do is make sure routine maintenance is performed on schedule, whether they do it themselves or have it done. With proper preventative maintenance, most new cars are trouble-free for over 100,000 miles. You'll probably need brakes during that time, but I don't advise that amateur mechanics service their own brakes. That's gotten more complicated, too, with ABS and other systems.

I worked for about ten years as a mechanic, back when cars weren't as complex. Today, I hesitate before taking on major repairs. I did replace a radiator in my GMC Jimmy, but had to solve some problems and buy some more tools. For example, that radiator has push in connectors for the oil and transmission coolers in the radiator. Removing the jesus clips that retain the lines is a real challenge without the proper tool, especially on the lower ones, where access is severely limited.

I did that job, and saved about $800 over the shop's estimate, but it took a lot longer than it should have and forced me to buy a tool I'll probably never use again. I have a lot of tools like that...ones needed for a particular job, but useless for anything else.

Yes, you can pull the codes from your car's computer, and that's a help, but, again, the knowledge is hard to come by unless it's your profession. You can do it. I can do it. I'll venture to guess, though, that fewer than 10% of DUers can do it. And most shouldn't even try to do repairs. Maintenance is another matter, but repairs...I don't think so.

[tridim]

5. I was thinking more along the lines of routine maintenance.

Oil changes, air filter replacement, fluid top offs, windshield wiper replacement, tire rotation, even front brake pads, etc. All things that are "add ons" that people get hit with routinely at Jiffy Lube.

I've always done my own oil changes, but one time decided to go to jiffy lube instead (feeling lazy) and was appalled by the extra shit they tried to force on me. I think I said "just change the oil" about 20 times before they got the hint. I never went back.

[MineralMan]

6. Sure, you can do that stuff, and it's a good idea that

will save you money. Of course, even then, some things can be challenging. I defy you to change the oil filter in my Jimmy. It's a remote one, behind a panel, and you can't use a normal filter wrench. Worse, it's obstructed by a steering arm. It can be done while lying on the ground, but not easily.

On most V-6, front wheel drive vehicles, replacing spark plugs is a major challenge. Of course, spark plugs these days last almost forever.

Anyhow, it's rare that I do my own oil changes any more. Since people who do them steeply discount the job so they can sell you more crap, it's usually cheaper to have someone else do it and just tell them, no thanks to the new air filter and other crap they try to sell you. You can buy that stuff at the parts house and change it yourself for a lot less.

In any case, it's wrong to say that you'll save thousands by doing routine maintenance yourself. Hundreds, maybe. The stuff that really costs the bucks is beyond most driveway mechanics. I wouldn't recommend that most people take on things like routine timing belt changes (60-90,000 miles), cooling system flushes (every couple of years), water pump replacement (these days a lot of them are inaccessible without considerable dismantling of other systems), or brakes (yes you can change pads, maybe, but you can also get into trouble there, too.) In the worst case, you can end up with a car you can't drive to the shop, so add a tow bill to the job.

Cars are expensive things to own. That's the bottom line. Buy new ones every five years or when the warranty runs out or buy older ones (10 years or so old) and drive them until they break. The second option is the cheapest in the long run. For example, I have a 1991 Volvo 740 wagon with 170,000 miles on it. I've had it, now, for three years. We paid $1800 for it, and I looked for a long time before finding a good car in that price range. The only thing I've had to replace were the front brake pads and rotors ($300). I do the normal oil changes, etc., and my wife drives it to work and elsewhere. It's also our road trip car for any trips shorter than about 500 miles. Longer trips and we rent a car and have no worries. I added a trailer hitch to it (craig's list, $50), and now it tows my boat around, as well.

The other car, the 1999 Jimmy is the worst vehicle I have ever owned, but I paid too much for it, and so have been paying for repairs. No more. We've had it for five years. Next thing that breaks on it and it gets donated and I look for another 90s Volvo.

It's a crap shoot, buying older cars.

[Swede]

7. I changed the oil in my car and the "service engine" light came on.

Thankfully I new someone that knew how to reset that.

[taught_me_patience]

8. I would recommend buying a code reader

Cost about $100 and can save a lot of money in older cars. They are super easy to use. You can google the type of repair job and see if it is easy enough to perform yourself. You can rent many specialty tools for FREE at autozone.

Easy jobs:
Transmission oil <--easiest of all jobs I've ever done
Oil change
Air filters
Disc Brakes <-- a complete novice can do brakes in 1hr
Spark Plugs <--new cars only need to be changed every 100k miles
Bushings <--did this on the wife's BMW and it took 2 hours. I saved $400 by doing it myself.

Medium Jobs (i'd rather pay for but you can do it yourself):
Tire rotation <--time consuming without an air compressor
Engine coolant <--fluid gets everywhere
Fuel injectors <--gas gets everywhere
Drum brakes <--springs are tough, but they only need to be done every 150k or so

Tough Jobs (not recommended):
Head Gasket
Timing Belt
Radiator
Water Pump
Fuel pump
Valve job

[MineralMan]

12. Sure. You can do it. I'm just saying that it's not all that simple,

and even the most basic jobs do require some skills with mechanics' tools. If you do that kind of stuff, you can do that kind of stuff. If you don't already have such skills, I wouldn't advise it.

My neighbor decided that he could replace the front hubs and bearings on his Jeep Cherokee. He finally came over and asked for some help. As it turned out, I did have the special socket needed to properly remove the recessed bolts and we managed to get the job done...eventually. Busted knuckles all around.

I've helped a lot of people who had some skills and thought they could take on a repair. Halfway into it, they find that it's really beyond their skills and the tools they have. If they're lucky, they have a neighbor like me who has a full set of auto mechanics tools and is willing to get them out of the jam they've gotten themselves into. If they're not lucky, they get to pay for a tow truck to take the vehicle to the shop, where it finally gets fixed.

Of course, you can get shop manuals for your own vehicles, too. You can usually investigate a particular job and assess your abilities and tools to do that job. IF you have the experience to know what you can and cannot handle. The internet can also help, and more extensive repair manuals are available at most larger libraries.

Another problem for the driveway mechanic is the temptation to shortcut things. Things like having the proper torque wrench for critical fasteners. Parts come off if they're not properly torqued. Some assemblies even require thread-locking chemicals. Some assemblies require new fasteners for safety's sake. Too often, the amateur rationalizes not following the procedures, and it can be costly and dangerous.

Modern automobiles and trucks aren't like the old ones. You don't replace wheel bearings any longer. You replace whole assemblies. Assemblies that were once tolerant of error are now precision assemblies that depend on proper fastener torque and thread-locking chemicals.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but advising people that it's not hard to do this stuff is a bad idea. Unless you already have some considerable skills as a general mechanic, it's best to leave it alone and let a pro do most of these jobs. If you want to learn, buy a car from the 60s or 70s and learn on it. They're more forgiving. Or work on your power equipment like lawnmowers and garden tractors. If you screw them up, your family won't die in an accident caused by your inexperience.

[Cleita]

4. Take the bus. n/t

[taught_me_patience]

9. The #1 thing is to do maintenance according to Manufacturer recommendations

and not the bullshit "dealership maintenance schedule"

Honda Recommendations:
Spark Plugs - 100k miles
Coolant - 120k miles
Transmission oil - 90k miles

Bullshit dealer maintenance has all of these changed at 30k miles.

[tridim]

10. I still wish someone would invent a lifetime timing belt.

Or at least make the job easier for home mechanics.

That one always hurts.

[taught_me_patience]

11. The job is incredibly difficult

I've replaced entire engines but have been foiled by a timing belt. My 2005 Accord I4 has a timing chain... no maintenance required!

[MineralMan]

13. Some timing belts aren't too hard. Others are terrible.

One of the big problems is that you have to remove so much crap to get to the point where you can remove the cover over the belt. Then...you have to get all that stuff back on correctly. Oddly enough, the manual never seems to cover that very well, and amateur mechanics get themselves in all kinds of trouble when it comes time to reassemble all that crap they removed to access the timing belt cover.

I've done several timing belts, out of necessity due to poverty. I hate that job.

Working on cars used to be fun. I'm an old geezer, and I've done every job there is on a car. In the old days, with the 50s and 60s cars, the backyard or driveway mechanic could take on just about anything, from fixing the brakes to a complete engine overhaul (with the help of the friendly local machine shop). No more. A valve job is out of the question today. In fact, nobody does them any more, almost. By the time a modern car needs a valve job, the cost of doing one is more than the car is worth.

And you'll be down on your knees, praying to whatever deity you prefer, if you need to fix your car's heater. That's run by a computer, too, these days.

I hate cars! I used to love 'em. Now...I just hate them.