What is the difference between a "moderate" Democrat and a "liberal" Democrat?

[kentuck]

Are "moderate" Democrats anti-choice? Are moderates anti-healthcare reform? Are moderates "pro-labor"? What specifically distinguishes the moderates from Republicans?

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Guts...

;)

[Winterblues]

28. I would say Greed. The guts to put Greed first and formost..

:shrug:

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Most will claim to be financial conservatives and socially progressive. But it really means that

they have one or two issues where they disagree with liberals, such as abortion or labor unions.

[get the red out]

6. + 1

My take as well. Most people I know who call themselves "moderate" Democrats are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. By fiscally conservative I don't mean spend all you want on war and leave Americans to die in hurricanes (like Republicans), I mean actually fiscally conservative. And even as a "liberal" myself there are some issues that one group of people will claim liberals must feel a certain way about and I and others will feel the exact opposite. Often those are women's issues, and I supposed that if I am honest I am more a feminist Democrat than any other label.

We have a pretty big tent, and to me, that's just civilized.

[kentuck]

7. I know few liberals that want to spend like crazy...

I think that is a fallacy about "liberals".

[YOY]

9. +1.

n/t

[get the red out]

26. True but

some are much more conservative regarding spending than I am when real need exists.

[Romulox]

21. Which is bogus, since economics is not separate from the rest of our societal activity

In other words, homelessness, e.g., is a "fiscal" issue, as well as a social issue...

[anonymous171]

43. Not to them. They believe that just as society has no business deciding

what goes on between two consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes, they have no right telling businessmen what to do with their money. Or that they do have some right, but that it is limited to regulations on actions that have a direct public harm (like pollution or climate change.)


That's the gist anyways. I don't really get it either.

[FormerDittoHead]

3. I'm thinking how easily their state could elect a Republican instead...

Consider Arlen Spector as a case study. PA's had many Republican governors.

You drive West into PA from Philly, the urban radio stations start to fade out, and all you have is religious and right wing talk on the air...

[YOY]

11. That's Ohio as you move south from Cleveland too.

n/t

[daleanime]

4. I always thought....

that a "moderate" Democrat was a reformed Republican:hide:

[kentuck]

5. I'm still looking for an answer...

that distinguishes them from Republicans??

[LiberalFighter]

8. Moderates straddle the fence. Test the winds. Don't get their feet wet.

Say a lot and yet say nothing.

[Zywiec]

10. Moderate Deomcrats probably wouldn't mind a Soldier

coming to a child's career day.

A liberal Democrat would object on grounds the military is good for nothing.

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Has any liberal Democrats in Congress stated that "the military is good for nothing?"

:shrug:

[anonymous171]

45. No. Only anti-war activists who invaded the democratic party in the 60s would say that

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Well my Dad, all of my uncles and many of my dear friends

are or were liberal Democrats while being Veterans. So if you would like to rethink that position, feel free.

[anonymous171]

44. FDR would probably disagree. A soldier is an agent of the government.

If you say that soldiers are bad, then you are implying that the government is bad as well. Soldiers just follow orders.

[SIMPLYB1980]

47. I think you have liberals and "progressives" mixed up

a little.

[dionysus]

63. what's the difference? to me "progressive" is what people say when they're afraid to say "liberal"

because the RW made liberal such a dirty word. i wish peopel would stop saying progressive and reclaim the word liberal, myself.

[Kansas Wyatt]

12. The Moderate is a Republican & the Liberal is a Democrat.

That is the bottom line.

For 30 years this country has been pushed to the Right, but when the Democrats have a chance to correct that by pushing back to the Left, the Moderates are always there PREVENTING it.

[Echo In Light]

22. +1 what makes it so heinous is how it affords the surface trappings of being sensible & bipartisan

... yet is clearly geared in favor of the already wildly powerful corporate, "conservative," pro-war, pro-militarization intere$ts even though it carries with it that bogus, elbow rubbing distinction of 'professionali$m' that's always touted quite falsely as being "for the best of the country." (= bullshit)

[michreject]

13. Are "moderate" Democrats" allowed a voice at DU?

That's the question for me.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Well their voice is being asked a direct question here.

And none of them seem willing to answer it. You can not simply 'have a voice' you have to be willing to speak with it, clearly and specifically. Answering a question with another question which you declare to be more important to you, that strikes me as evasive and whiny. And of course, ironic in this case because you are being asked to speak out, refusing to do so, and complaining about not being heard all in a few short words.
The OP's question is excellent. You should answer it for yourself, and thereby gain your much wanted voice.

[michreject]

32. Wrong

I never laid claim to any slant of the Democratic party. Progressive or Blue Dog. Just the Democratic party. Please show me where I did so.

My question was in the fact that when a moderate Democrat offers their view point, they are literally ran out on a cyber rail. This is Democratic Underground. Not Progressive Underground or Liberal Underground.

I was born and bred in NE Tennessee in the early 50's. My Mother is from Harlan County, Kentucky. I was raised a Southern Baptist and a strong Democrat.

Now back to my question............

[anonymous171]

46. The only requirement for continued membership is support of gay rights and a WRTC

[michreject]

55. Since you are the membership head

What is WRTC? I do want to be compliant.

[Echo In Light]

14. Moderates generally abide the 2 party ruse, & the phony National $ecurity State & its WAR$

[greendog]

17. Moderate = moving rigthward. Liberal = heels dug in. n/t

[kctim]

19. The difference is no more than the amount of degree

of government intrusion a person is willing to accept in order to address an issue.

[Romulox]

20. Many modern day "moderate Democrats" are similar to old school Yankee (NE) Republicans

:hi:

[rrneck]

23. Desired rate of cultural change. nt

[Kaleva]

24. Few are a moderate on all issues and few are liberal on all issues.

Many here support the use of the death penalty in some circumstances. I don't in any case as I think it does no good, is costly, and there's a chance an innocent can be put to death. I support the legalization of marijuana and the decriminalization on the use of hard drugs (transporting and selling of hard drugs is another matter). I think illegals already in the country ought to be allowed to stay and given a chance to gain citizenship. I like the idea of using run off voting but highly doubt that will ever be adopted nationwide.

However, I don't consider myself to be a liberal overall. More of a moderate who has liberal views on some issues.

[bunkerbuster1]

25. Moderates are happy to sell out people who haven't got another major party to call home

These days you have to add "...and when they get a Democratic President, they're happy to work with Republicans to screw him over."

[arthritisR_US]

27. one is a DINO and wants limited rights except for corporations and the

other want progressive change for the masses.

[Kaleva]

30. Even if they don't want it.

A die hard liberal, like a die hard conservative, knows whats best for everyone and they get pretty upset when the "masses" don't go along.

[kentuck]

31. Right, like the healthcare issue, for example?

Liberals think we need it.

[Kaleva]

35. I do too and I think a single payer system would be best.

[kctim]

34. Seeing how you state that so matter of fact like

perhaps you can explain to us all what rights us moderates wish to limit?

[kentuck]

29. Sounds like a scam going on...

We are "moderate" Democrats until you need to pass something for the benefit of the people, then we are "fiscal conservatives". We are saving the people's money. But nothing ever gets done. Because they are on the other side on every important issue facing this country. But, they say they are "Democrats". We have to have a "big tent". Otherwise, their states will elect "Republicans". We wouldn't want that, would we??

[Walk away]

37. That's right..."nothing ever gets done" like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid,

Health Care for children, Unemployment Insurance extensions in times of national crisis, increase in the minimum wage and all of the other things that never get done by Liberal Democrats. Let's face it. Moderates want all the social rights for themselves but really feel fine about keeping money they decided is theirs while others suffer.

I think they are more like Libertarians. Socially liberal (when it comes to their rights) and financially greedy.

[kentuck]

38. Fifty to seventy-five years ago..

There were some needs addressed by the Democratic Party? What have they done lately?

[Walk away]

39. Apparently, "Moderate Dems" can only read the first three items on a list.

That's something I didn't realize when I posted.

[kentuck]

40. Unfortunately...

The people face new problems all the time. We cannot rest on the laurels of our predecessors. Do we need healthcare reform or not? Do we need to bust up the big banks or not? Do we need to remove the anti-trust exemption from the big insurance companies or not? Do we need more jobs for our people? Do we need a better education system? The list could go on and on. But, we do not seem capable of addressing these issues anymore? Why? What role do the moderates play?

[Walk away]

41. They seem to be the ones obstructing reform....

and republicans are gleeful about it!

We need all of these things but moderate Democratic leaders are as bought and paid for as republicans it would appear.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[kentuck]

36. It's a stalemate.

Moderates act as if the "liberals" run the Party but when was the last time "liberals" got their way? It is always the "moderates", with their Republican friends, that call the shots. So who is representing the liberals?

[Sinti]

42. Social justice and equality imo

I think at this point the moderate Democrats are Goldwater Republicans, and the liberal Democrats are FDR Democrats. There's also the whole buy-in to "government bad" mentality. Govern (control) ment (mind), i.e., controlling the minds of the people has been badly abused to prove the "government is bad" philosophy to the point where even some FDR Democrats are buying the line. Government is just a tool, and can be used either to lift people and make a better society, or smack people and create what we're seeing now.

Moderates are basically republicans who reject the brand name "Republican," but are still infatuated with the ideology. Basically, they need to be shown how the liberal mindset actually does make life better for everyone - and by everyone, we mean everyone.

[kctim]

50. Moderates don't have a problem

with liberals believing their way is the ONLY way to make life better for everyone, we understand how such liberal and conservative thought requires such thinking. The problem comes because liberals believe that it is them and not the individual, who knows what is in the individuals best interest and what makes the individuals life better.

[Sinti]

52. This is not at all true

Liberals believe that all people have value. Liberals believe that all people should be given the opportunity to create value in society. For example, we like education better than prison, because it lifts all of us up. We do not want to tell people what is best for them. Actually, historically speaking the moderates and conservatives make more laws infringing upon the rights of the individual, generally in order to appease some group they hope to get votes from. We constantly hear them referring to "special rights" when we are taking about "human rights."

You apparently have bought their propaganda.

Liberals need to fight back with every breath to express their own vision of their philosophy - rather than the one proposed by conservatives.

[kctim]

54. Classic

What we think you are about is wrong and what you think we are about is right. A very typical and even expected response.

Despite the talking points, moderates do believe all people have value. Hell, even Republicans believe that. We also believe all people should be afforded the OPPORTUNITY to create value in society also. It's HOW we accomplish such things that gets everybodys panties in a bunch.

You're view of history is BS. You feel as if moderates infringe more only because they fight for their individual rights when you are trying to take them away in pursuit of your view on what anothers human rights should be. Moderates feel liberals infringe more because you guys put the wants and needs of some over the individual rights of all and the ONLY way you can accomplish that is by using the government to do your bidding.

You don't need to fight back against moderate Dems. Sure we have different values and beliefs on some things, but we agree on most and need to work together.

But, its a free country, so if you really believe you need to fight back against moderate Dems and make the liberal vision and philosophy the only one accepted in the Democratic Party, then go ahead. Its worked out so well for the Libertarian Party, seeing how relevant they are and everything.

[Sinti]

56. Equal value - not just a value

A value could mean a value as a $1 a day slave who gets table scraps and hand me downs.

I am only looking at the things moderates join with the conservatives to fight against us on. I don't mean it as a personal affront. I realize it is what the moderates believe will work the best, and I strongly disagree. I think they have bad information. I would suggest that you look at your nation today to see how well these policies work.

Please explain the "HOW we accomplish such things" you're referring to, if you don't mind. I don't understand what you mean.

I do know this:

Moderates resist raising the minimum wage.

They resist efforts to regulate corporations effectively.

They resist joining the rest of the civilized world in providing adequate health care to the citizens.

They resist granting equal rights to all persons and by that at the moment I mean Gay persons, as if they are not human beings.

They resist giving a woman the right to choose, and they resist giving people easy access to contraception. They worry about the "moral" statement that makes. You can't legislate morals.

They resist giving more money to public education and decent salaries school teachers, have no problem giving it to private or charter schools instead, and then complain that our education system is poor.

Moderates feel liberals infringe more because you guys put the wants and needs of some over the individual rights of all and the ONLY way you can accomplish that is by using the government to do your bidding.

Is this statement a clever way of saying we want to tax the super-rich? I'll confess, I think we do need to do something about the huge income gap in this nation. I'd prefer wage regulation rather than taxes, but that's just me. The rich won't starve if we expect them to pay the people who work for them a decent wage.

A man who just made $50,000 in the stock market in 4 months (like it's spare change to him) has employees who need to receive food stamps to feed their children. Do you think that's fair and right?

If they don't want to pay a living wage, then they can close their businesses and let fair-minded people take over. Don't tell me people can "choose to take that job or not" - if they choose not to take a job in a nation where the income gap is as high as this by choosing not to take that job they are choosing to starve.

Moderate Democrats are democrats who still believe in large parts of the conservative ideology.

Edited to change In to Is

[kctim]

57. How we accomplish things in reaching the common goal

Take something as simple as smoking. The common goal is to make it so non-smokers are not forced to breath in smoke. Liberal way says to use govt to ban all smoking in public areas. Moderate way says to let the businesses and customers make that decision on their own. Both reach a common goal, but one intrudes on individual rights while the other leaves the rights intact.

Moderates don't always resist raising the min wage and when they do, it is usually because they are being asked for it to be raised too much and too fast.

They don't always resist regulations on corps. Not sure if you have noticed, but there are some things moderates believe should be left up to the corps and some that govt needs to require.

The US is not, or has ever been, like the "rest of the civilized world." Her people are not accustomed to her providing for them, they are accustomed to providing for themselves and for her. While very charitable, we are also very cautious and demanding, which is why very few of us ever object to helping those who need help, but are very reluctant and critical of helping those who can help themselves but choose not to. When you listen to moderates complain about something like welfare, it isn't about the single parent of 4 who is working and still struggling, it is about how others abuse the system.
Healthcare is like this in many ways. Most of the Democrats I know are happy with their current plans and want nothing to do with the ones being offered. But, as the polls show, most do not mind a govt plan to help those who are not insured.

You cannot say moderates resist equal rights to all persons and be fair. Moderate views vary dramatically on such things like gay marriage. I believe myself to be a moderate, but I am for absolute marriage rights for ALL. NO questions asked. My neighbor, an Obama supporting, pick-up driving, UAW member, whom I consider a moderate Dem, does not believe in it at all. My grandfather, a lifelong Democrat, doesn't care one way or another.
Heck, as a group, black Americans mainly support the Democratic Party, but yet, as a group, they overwhelmingly vote against gay marriage. Should they be asked to the Democratic Party? Hell no.

Some moderates are pro-life and that cannot be denied. But not all are and we vote for the Dem who best represents us. I personally hold an extreme view on abortion, in that I believe I have no say on anything once the doc closes the door. Again, I consider myself to be a moderate.

No, it was not a clever way to say you like to soak the rich. That is common knowledge and I would have said it straight out. As far as your examples, they too show how our beliefs differ.

Of course some Republican beliefs bleed into the moderate Dems way of thought, that is why we are moderates, or centrists. We know that no govt involvement from the far right is just as bad as too much govt involvement from the far left.
We are the middle and we keep you guys honest.

[Sinti]

58. Thanks - your views are not what I was thinking of

and I'm glad to hear it. We are much closer than what I hear from many who call themselves moderate or centrist. Most moderates I talk to sound just like Barry Goldwater.

Actually, as far as the smoking thing, I agree with you. Of course, I also think almost all nanny-state laws are ridiculous. Wage and working standards are not, in my opinion, the state providing for someone versus the person providing for themselves. This is a huge cultural issue.

"critical of helping those who can help themselves but choose not to." - this is a very, very rare syndrome. There is no such thing as a welfare queen, unless it's the bankers. Unemployment and welfare keeps everyone's wages down while keeping people quiet in my opinion - your mileage may vary :)

"We are the middle and we keep you guys honest." - I agree, in a sense. You make us open our eyes to all possibilities, and that's vitally important for making good decisions.

Cheers :toast:

Edited to add:
I would never advocate throwing ANYONE out of the party. We are the party for the people, all the people, and we should listen to and when necessary show enough leadership to educate our people and work together.

[kctim]

61. And I thank you ma'am

I find it absolutely crucial for Dems to understand and respect each other if we wish to have any affect on how our country is ran and I can be very passionate about it. Most times when having meaningful talks with liberals, they discover that I am not the conservative they thought I was and they are not the govt is the answer to everything type.

I lurked around DU for a looooong time before I decided to throw my voice on here, and the main reason I did so was because of all the calls for moderates, blue dogs, centrists or whatever, to leave the party, we weren't needed. Despite the facts many on here would offer, showing how moderate Dems voted with the party 90+ percent of the time, we receive the right wing treatment: We are either with you or against you. I don't believe we are so far apart from each other for that to be true.

[Throd]

48. I consider myself a moderate

In that there are many on this forum far to the left of me. I really don't care if I am to be defined by someone else's litmus test of ideological purity on an internet discussion board.

[Echo In Light]

49. Maybe it's not so much about "purity" (only mods prefer to wield that term)

... and is simply about attempting to illustrate simple, obvious criteria as to the political philosophies people identify with, and hold to per their reasons, preferences and values ... the key is in determining where those properties stem from since none of our "personal" views are strictly our own, but rather, stem from one's birth-on deluge of a wide array of agenda-setting external influences that people pick and choose from based on an assortment of psychological determinants, coupled with the corporate culture's numerous social and professional inducements i.e. there are rewards and punishments attached to supporting or rejecting certain views and beliefs.

[kentuck]

51. But if it is "liberal"..

it is automatically assumed to be "impure". It is not that they disagree with the "liberal" viewpoint, it is that they disagree with the Democratic viewpoint. They are Democrats because it is easier to get re-elected as a Democrat. Once their scam is uncovered, they have to do what Joe Lieberman did, if they want to continue their political careers. They promote themselves as fiscal conservatives but actually said or did very little during the last Administration, even as they were doubling our national debt. They seem to only find their religion when the Democrats are in power...

[Echo In Light]

53. I was approaching your question from the perspective of how everyday people cast their political ID

... not so much from how Reps and candidates work to sell perceptions to the public.

[branders seine]

59. The magnitude of that difference

is approximately equal to the difference between a far-right nutcase and a "moderate democrat"

...or between a moderate republican and a liberal Democrat.

[Spike89]

60. The question has problems for me

I consider myself liberal, and probably way to the left of most in the party. I don't really have any dissonance on platform planks. However, being honest, I'd have to admit to being a moderate in methods. I believe we need guys like Kuchinich agitating and fighting against anything short of the best solution, however, I think we also need people willing to lead and guide the entire ship to the left. In other words, my goal is a long way to the left, but I'm willing to walk there if it can be sustained. I don't believe (in many instances) that jumping all the way to my "ideal" position is possible and I believe it also leads to a pendulum swing effect that actually hurts progress.

Hope that makes sense.

[dionysus]

62. i think it's a false label. nothing moderate about em. they should be honest and call themselves

conservative.

[Romulox]

64. LOLOLOL. nt

[dionysus]

65. ah yes, i'm not a liberal to you because i'm not ready to burn obama at the stake...

yawn

[Lorien]

66. One is a Democrat, the other is a repug who ran in a Dem district. nt