this broke my heart re flu shot

[medeak]

not H1N1...but devastating... this girl is just like my hubby with Parkinson's...he can walk backwards perfectly but not forward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScGC7nFDxM&feature=popm00us04

[kestrel91316]

1. What evidence is there that a flu shot caused this?

[medeak]

3. doctor friend had study translated from Germany

that proved Lipitor can be a cause of Parkinson's. Studies here are all funded by pharmaceutical companies through university and research firms.... so no...I don't have proof but strongly suspect.

[Warpy]

4. In the absence of proof, you have nothing, in other words

Coincidence is rarely cause. Undoubtedly this will be studied and if other cases turn up, some day a link might be established, but that's a very big "if" and an even bigger "might."

Antivaxers are going to point to every coincidental morbidity as proof that vaccines are the work of the devil.

Come on, you're smarter than this.

[medeak]

5. pray tell

are you a pharmaceutical rep? LOL

[Warpy]

32. No, but I know how the system works

and that, while no vaccination is 100% safe, they're a lot safer than the diseases they prevent.

The truth is that so far, they have seen far fewer side effects to the H1N1 vaccine than they expect with the seasonal shot every year.

That speaks well for its safety and posts like the OP speak to the hysteria and grabbing at straws the antivaxers are guilty of.

[Th1onein]

6. res ipsa loquitur

eom

[medeak]

7. totally agree

husband was symptomatic with Parkinson's 5 yrs ago just months after taking lipitor..oncologist friend was diagnosed the same exact day after taking lipitor for a few months. Coincidence? Am just grateful husband is not as bad as doctor friend who is having trouble breathing now...dystonia. the point of my post was this girl's symptoms were so like my husband's and we think his was caused from toxicity to something. Michael J. Fox foundation did complete dna study of my husband and validated caused from toxin. So go flame me people.. live in my shoes.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. Sorry for your husbands situation.

If you are easily offended it might be wise to not post information that evokes strong emotion on your behalf. The simple fact is two people that you know developed Parkinson's months after beginning to take one of the most widely prescribed drugs in the US. It likely is a coincidence. You are hurt and angry and you want someone to blame. If you and the 1 are correct it should be an easy case to win in court. Good luck.

[medeak]

13. like I said Fire Medic

German study has proved link to lipitor and Parkinson's...UCSanDiego is now doing statin study as well to prove the same...only US study not funded by pharmas

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. I'll be happy to look at the German study, just post a link.

I was stationed there for years and was engaged to a beautiful german woman, I'd be interested in reading it.

[medeak]

17. oncologist paid for a translator

and sent me link in german 3 yrs ago. I don't have it. My brother was stationed there as well and married german woman who died of cancer we think was from war.. she had horrible scars on her face from burns. So sad and such a wonderful person

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. So a study about Parkinson's proves the flu shot caused a reaction?

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. Number of adverse H1N1 vaccine reactions reported in Canada:

36 out of 6.6 million, which translates to 0.028% chance of adverse reaction (less than three in ten thousand). Nothing is ever without risk. Compared to the risk of serious effects, hospitalisation and death from the virus itself, those are pretty good odds. (See here for CDC estimates on infection rates, hospitalisations and projected number of deaths from H1N1.)

[Th1onein]

8. First, do no harm.

Shaw CA, Petrik MS. Aluminum hydroxide injections lead to motor deficits and motor neuron degeneration. J Inorg Biochem. 2009 Aug 20.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. Link please?

[Th1onein]

16. Here you go:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

You might have to type in the first few words in the title.

On edit, here's one where you don't have to type in anything:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=aluminum%20hydroxide%20injection%20lead%20to%20motor%20deficits&cmd=correctspelling

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. Thanks, I'm curious about the doses given but it should be further investigated.

[REP]

20. In mice.

[Posteritatis]

39. I love the risk evaluation failures around here about these things

I was in more danger walking to the clinic to get my shot than I was from the shot itself, but people keep moving the goalposts to this one to the point where the only acceptable risk is zero reactions out of infinity shots.

It's depressing, and I wish they'd just be honest enough to say they care neither about facts nor how safe the thing is. If they weren't holding it to different standards, after all, they'd have no business setting foot outside of their houses.

(And, for the record, I have yet to exhibit signs of cancer or CBS or projectile schizophrenia or the purple itch or whatever else people claim the thing causes. I hear the 70-year survival rate on the shot is terrible, though.)

[Feron]

10. Here's more about the case:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/11/desiree_jennings_cured.php

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. The cheerleader again. Are we back to this?

[Th1onein]

18. Another one, for your edification

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114826?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. So Ms. Jennings was given a vaccine with aluminum hydroxide used as an adjuvant?

Is that your contention? Do you also believe that adjuvant caused her dystonia 10 days after the vaccination? Do you believe detoxification cured her almost instantly?

[medeak]

22. fire medic

what exactly are your qualifications besides being an EMT to torment everyone? I worked in medical field for 20 yrs before starting 3 durable med companies. Really I just put something out there and don't understand your multiple responses on here. Please go to my more important thread re OMB analysis of HRC that was posted online tonight. And if ANYONE can find the HRC bill that is said to be posted online tonight please tell me!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. What qualifications does one need to ask questions?

In what capacity did you work in the medical field?

[Th1onein]

24. I don't know Ms. Jennings. Why should I have an opinion about her case?

I'm saying that we need to look into the adjuvants in these vaccines. I am saying that we can do better than this. I am saying that we need to keep an open mind. I am saying that we need to stop beating the shit out of anyone who questions the medical establishment.

On edit: And, by the way, if you are a part of the medical establishment, you have an OBLIGATION, a sacred reponsibility, to question.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. You responded to a post about her.

I already said we should look closely at adjuvants. What can we do better at? I have an open mind but considering all of the things that gulf war veterans like myself were exposed to it will be impossible to pinpoint one particular cause. I haven't beat the shit out of anyone, except at the golf course earlier today.

[Th1onein]

26. I responded to a post about the vaccine.

YOU might not be beating the shit out of people who are talking about the vaccines, but others are. It all adds up to a big "Shut the fuck up."

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. Your post #18 is a direct reponse to post #15 which is about Ms. Jennings.

[Th1onein]

28. I think you need to look at post #18 again, friend.

it's a link to an abstract in a scientific journal.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. And if it had been posted in response to post #9 then I wouldn't have thought it was about Jennings.

[Th1onein]

31. Is it really too much to understand that it's about the possible effects of the vaccine on Jennings?

Why do we have to quibble and split hairs here, FireMedicDave?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. So now it is about Ms. Jennings? What evidence do you have she was given a vaccine with adjuvant?

[Th1onein]

35. NO, it's not about her. It's about the fucking vaccine!

This really is getting stupider and stupider.

The vaccines have adjuvants. All of them do. Geez.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. Sorry but you are wrong about the use of adjuvants. Link included.

7. What is a vaccine adjuvant and will the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines that are currently recommended contain adjuvants?

A vaccine adjuvant is a substance that is added to the vaccine to increase the body's immune response to the vaccine.

Vaccine adjuvants will not be used in the United States during the 2009-10 flu season. This includes all of the 2009 H1N1 and seasonal influenza vaccines that will be available for children and adults in both the injectable and nasal spray formulations.


http://www.cdc.gov/Features/H1N1Vaccine/

[Th1onein]

37. I HOPE I stand corrected. But what about this?

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccine_safety_qa.htm

Will the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine contain thimerosal?
The 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccines that FDA is licensing (approving) will be manufactured in several formulations. Some will come in multi-dose vials and will contain thimerosal as a preservative. Multi-dose vials of seasonal influenza vaccine also contain thimerosal to prevent potential contamination after the vial is opened.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. Yes the multi-dose vials do contain Thimerosal, the single dose flu mist do not.

I believe there is a single dose injection of the H1N1 vaccine that doesn't contain Thimerosal but I don't think it is widely available.

[Th1onein]

41. So, then most of them DO contain these metals?

I don't blame the anti-vaxxers for being against them, if they do.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. Thimerosal isn't an adjuvant. There are plenty of thimerosal free seasonal and H1N1 vaccines.

My department still has 400 of the 500 doses of the H1N1 flumist that is adjuvant and thimerosal free. About 95% of the people we vaccinated opted for the H1N1 injectable vaccination that contained thimerosal as opposed to the thimerosal free H1N1 flumist. We are going to send it to the health department to distribute elsewhere.

[Th1onein]

43. This is a shell game. They still have METALS in them.

Aluminum hydroxide as an adjuvant and thimerosol as a preservative, what's the fucking difference? They are both metals that have no biological purpose. They should not be injected into humans. Period.

Most people, I'm sure, opt for the injection because they know it has dead virus in it, and they know that the flumist has a live virus (weakened, but live) in it. Why can't they make a vaccine without metals in it?

I would never opt for giving this to my small child. We have no idea how these metals affect the developing human brain. We SHOULD know that before using these vaccines with these metals in them on a mass scale. Wouldn't you agree?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. No they don't, thimerosal and adjuvant free vaccines are available as I said in my last post.

[Th1onein]

46. They are not the injectable though, are they?

They are the flumist, which contains live (though weakened) virus.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. Both types of both seasonal and H1N1 vaccine are available without adjuvants or thimerosal.

The flumist version is more widely available. What is the problem with the flumist version? The attenuated vaccine is safe and produces good immunity.

[Th1onein]

48. For one thing, like you said, it's not as widely available

For another, people are afraid of the attenuaged virus. I'm not, but other people are. And, no matter what you tell them, they will remain so. That's why they opt for the shot.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

49. I can't address irrational fears. Vaccines without thimerosal or adjuvants are available bottom line

[Posteritatis]

38. They'll be citing that cheerleader fifty years from now, too

Cherrypicking's awesome.

[uppityperson]

30. I don't understand what a flu shot has to do with Parkinson's and lipitor

best wishes to your husband and everyone with Parkinson's. It can be a heartbreaking disease.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[SidDithers]

44. It's OK, she's been cured...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x75804

And I ask the question again.

Is anyone really surprised when a fake treatment cures a psychogenic illness?

Sid