Things I like about the Senate Bill, Things I don't like, and things that I need more explanation

[AllentownJake]

The Bad

Pre-existing conditions are not banned as a reason to deny coverage till 2014.

Employers not required to provide coverage

The subsidies are in the form of Tax Credits

The worst plan is only required to cover 60% of medical expenses

The Government plan has an opt out provision for states


The Good

Taxes on elective cosmetic surgery

Increase on the Medicare Tax to those making over $200,000 a year

Fees on employers who employees receive government subsidies.

Mandate tax/fine is less than the punishment than the house version.

The Government plan has the government negotiating fees from providers.

Voluntary long term care insurance provided by the government

Need more information

The drug research provision gives a 12 year exemption to drugs for deadly diseases. It also comes with an 80 billion dollar contribution though for Medicare drugs.

There is no anti-trust provision but one is expected as an amendment.

Medicaid is capped at 133% of the poverty level.

State based purchasing pools for the uninsured.

What the tax credits are for small employers and how large are they.

What does the Senate's bill version of Stupak look like.

This is based on a limited review of an AP summary document

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gm81TTE7a0EUL9JlzVML1dnH2N2gD9C2A7E80

If they took the best parts of the House bill and the best parts of this bill...It wouldn't be that bad of a bill. If they take the worst parts, it is going to suck.

[Nikki Stone1]

1. I still worry about the taxing of health plans

That means union health plans mostly.

[AllentownJake]

2. I can't see that surviving conference committee

Too many House members rely on Union Support to win their elections in the fall.

[emulatorloo]

5. yes n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

8. I hope you're right.

The Dems were supposed to count on the votes of women too....

[AllentownJake]

11. They can get away with Stupak

If you are a progressive you can come some sort of way to defend that against a primary challenger and it isn't going to kill you in a General Election.

For many reps, without labor the last two weeks of a general election they are completely fucked.

[emulatorloo]

3. Schumer says they have worked it so most union members wont be affected

but I would rather see a tax on the rich like the house bill has.

Hopefully in conference it will swing more to the house side and the tax on health plans will get weaker.

[AllentownJake]

6. There appears to be a rich person tax

It comes in the form of an increase in the Medicare tax. Don't know if it is as much as the tax in the House Bill.

[emulatorloo]

16. Ah yeah I remember Schumer saying that now, raised by .5% I believe on wealthy medicare recipients

[AllentownJake]

18. Elective cosmetic surgery tax as well

Not many poor people getting nose jobs or boob jobs...too bad they didn't tax Carrie Prejean before she got hers.

[Nikki Stone1]

29. Well that I can understand, as long as it is elective

Injured soldiers, burn victims, kids with cleft palate--that should be covered.

[AllentownJake]

30. That isn't elective

That is the treatment of a medical condition...I hope the elective surgery includes hair plugs...but with the boys club in the Senate, I doubt it.

:rofl:

[Nikki Stone1]

31. You have mail

:)

[waiting for hope]

4. This -

"Pre-existing conditions are not banned as a reason to deny coverage till 2014."

Too long to wait for coverage, imho, and a death sentence to those who can't get insurance for that very reason.

[AllentownJake]

7. That by far is the biggest issue with this bill

The biggest selling point of the House Bill is the pre-existing condition denials are banned upon signing.

[MNDemNY]

9. Not so loud, you'll wake the sheep.

[AllentownJake]

10. Sheep are being quiet

Talking points aren't fully written yet, don't worry our favorite DLC blogger has been busy all day in conference calls. Once she speaks, they will awaken.

This is called the quiet phase where they sense reactions and get ready for posturing.

[MNDemNY]

12. They are busy cuttin'-and-pastin'

They will have some stuff (other peoples) to post tomorrow.

[AllentownJake]

13. I'm sure

and quotes from various people saying this is the best thing that ever happened in the history of America.

Sad thing is if I cut and paste the two bills, I'd have something I could live with...of course we aren't the ones cutting and pasting.

[chill_wind]

25. It'd be easier if we could drag Kucinich into this version somehow

every 10 minutes for about 72 hours.

[AllentownJake]

26. If Bernie Sanders or Al Franken object to the Public Option being eliminated through

amendment, I'm sure they will fit the bill.

[Nikki Stone1]

32. + 1

Baaaa. :rofl:

[emulatorloo]

17. They will need to fix that. . .

[AllentownJake]

19. Dupe

To all those suffering without Insurance coverage because you have a medical condition, help is on the way...in the 6th year of the Obama Presidency.

[AllentownJake]

20. I can't see them surviving the political firestorm if they don't

To all those suffering without Insurance coverage because you have a medical condition, help is on the way...in the 6th year of the Obama Presidency.

[Schema Thing]

14. Does the bill provide something for people who are denied coverage

due to pre-existing?


The house bill did.

[AllentownJake]

15. In 2014

Till than, no dice.

[truedelphi]

21. Really stinky thinking here.

The Big Insurers have enough sway to continue to let 44,000 people die every year. Unless the seriously ill and already denied can struggle on till 2014.

Fuck this medicore system of government. This damn oligarchy of ours.

[AllentownJake]

22. The Senate is pretty tone deaf

Take the best and most popular provision of the House Bill and delay it for 5 years.

[truedelphi]

34. How many times last week were we pessimists told to

Shut up already about the House Bill - that after all, we could count on the Senate to offer us better provisions.

Yeah like that will be the day.

Both bodies of Congress are totally sold out.

[AllentownJake]

35. Anyone who was making that argument

either had a lobotomy or was flat out lying.

[MadHound]

23. This thing could be a nightmare coming out of conference committee

The worst of both bills, all wrapped up and tied with a big bow. Stupak amendment, pre-existing conditions still allowed for years to come, I'm really disappointed with what I'm seeing here, and quite frankly think that they need to scrap this entire thing and start over fresh. The trouble is, given this gang who can't shoot straight, they would do even worse.

There's going to be a lot of blame to spread around on this, and sadly I think that if this becomes law our healthcare system will become even more of a nightmare. The Dems are quickly proving Nader's point, that there's not a dimes worth of difference, and in the past eight years since he made that statement, that dime has shrunk to maybe a couple of cents.

[AllentownJake]

24. Yes that is a strong possibility

If the worst provisions of this bill were combined with the worst of the House bill, it would result in a real big piece of shit.

[chill_wind]

27. Thanks AllentownJake. K & R.

[Blue State Blues]

28. Abortion Compromise - Not the Stupak Language

Closer to the original House compromise that kept Hyde, but still allowed private coverage.

More analysis and full text on Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/read-the-abortion-comprom_n_363117.html

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Nikki Stone1]

36. Grovelbot?

:D

[saracat]

37. I just read the abortion component and it still sickens me that a

woman would have to pay for her reproductive health care out of her own pocket while other care is covered. And I don't give a flying you know what about whose ever "morals"are offended. I am offended by my tax dollars going to fund faith based iniatives, wars, and charter schools catering to the rich and the religious while our government dismantles "public" education. Why do the Fundies, RW and the Family get to choose what they pay for and I don't? And exactly why is it that no one attempts to repeal Hyde?

And I also find it offensive that subsidies come in the form of tax credits but we would have to fork over genuine cash for mandates.

Even merging the best parts of both bills together this still isn't any kind of real health care reform, as far as I see it.

[saracat]

38. And Lookee here! Surprise, Surprise!

Health insurers will continue being exempt from anti-trust laws.
Probably, based on this:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/11/with_...

"And, to address one of (Senator) Ben Nelson's concerns, (Senator Harry) Reid stripped out a provision that would have overturned the insurance industry's anti-trust exemptions."

[Political Heretic]

39. The subsidies is a deal breaker for those standing on the side of social end economic justice

That is the clincher. This bill currently:

-- does not have sufficient benefits for the poor
-- has critical problems for the poor
-- the benefits do not outweigh existing problems for the poor
-- all things being equal, further work on legislation would be more helpful to the poor than harmful.

It is a bill that does not prioritize the needs of ordinary Americans first, and the wealthy and financial elite second. Because of all these things, I can't support it in its current form.

[AllentownJake]

40. The bill appears to be weaker in government support

It is probably why it was cheaper.

[chill_wind]

42. Was my first thought

when we were all supposed to be cheering the reports of the costs alone, without any of these further details.

[AllentownJake]

43. Yeah the thread touting that 2 hours before the bill was passed raised my eyebrow

I figured it was the public option or subsidies.

[chill_wind]

41. kick

[chill_wind]

44. 8 recs and 12 DU posters. Am I missing The BIG BREAKING Thread on this somewhere?

The correct talking points sure seem to be taking some time this time around.

[AllentownJake]

45. Wait till Pro does her cut and paste from the bill

The sheep don't move until she gets back from her DLC meeting.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. Excellent points.

I applaud your balanced approach, and I find it refreshing to see this issues discussed with out the use of cut and paste parrot points, as has become the dominate style of one side in this debate.