Just wanted to summarize the things that made the United States a Great Economic Nation

[AllentownJake]

1) Free education for a generation of men for their service to their country in World War II. Those men went on to innovate, produce, and create the prosperity of the next 50 years. For those that didn't serve, the state college system didn't cost nearly as much as it does in 2009.

2) We didn't have free trade. In fact, free trade policies weren't instituted till the 1970s. Coincidentally the free trade policies were implemented at the same time of the environmental movement and the beginning of the decline of American Manufacturing. Do I blame the environmental movement for the loss of American jobs, no. When you offer free trade with another nation that has no restrictions on how it's manufacturing process effects the environment the outcome is rather predictable.

3) Public education. At one time, the United States boasted the greatest Public Education system in the world. Today, not so much.

4) Organized Labor. Organized Labor provided a working class population with a livable wage who could buy the products being manufactured at the plant they worked out, or other plants.

5) NASA and other Government programs. Including the Military in some cases. These programs developed technologies that later had consumer uses. I'm communicating on two such inventions right now.

6) Public Infrastructure. FDR and Eisenhower invested in building in the roads that connected the country. FDR invested in providing electric power and public sewage to all areas of the country he could.

7) A regulated financial system. It protected both the consumer and the lending institutions from themselves.

8) Social Security, it provided a security blanket for our elderly population to prevent them from going into poverty.

9) An active engaged electorate, they didn't make the greatest choices sometimes, but they paid attention. Glass Steagall's repeal would not have been able to occur in 1960.

10) A community based lifestyle. People invested in their hometowns, took pride in them, and tried to support businesses that supported their community.

[msongs]

1. you forgot slavery nt

[AllentownJake]

2. Actually the North was more powerful economically than the South

hence them losing the war. Granted, labor policies resembled China in the 1860s.

[earth mom]

4. The OP was talking about the creation of the middle class-which is what made this country great..

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd say that while slavery made some people rich, it did not create a middle class.

[Therellas]

22. yeah and hemp.....

jus sayin

[leftstreet]

3. Well, those things briefly made the US a great Middle Class Nation

but that was something of a blip on the American screen as it were

[AllentownJake]

8. Yes the blues and the hospitals are no longer non-profit organizations

even if they still have the tax statuses.

[depakid]

5. You forgot an accountable, regulated broadcast media

Much of what's torn the nation down would have been much more difficult to accomplish with a responsible and ethical mass media in place.

[AllentownJake]

7. That is true

The modern day media is controlled by 6 organizations who collect their advertising revenue from all the other organizations.

Hard to present a fair opinion on something when you benefit from the implementation of the opposite.

Of course, Michael Moore did put it right when he said Newspapers have been advocating for their own destruction for years by attacking public education and endorsing candidates who do so.

[valerief]

6. Affordable not-for-profit health insurance which died in the Reagan years. nt

[Nikki Stone1]

9. Speaking of education, the UC system just raised fees (tuition) by 30%

They said. "We don't have the money."

[AllentownJake]

10. One of the biggest reasons for their prosperity over the past 50 years

has been their public education universities which were subsidized by the State of California. They are essentially throwing away the future of the state right now.

[Nikki Stone1]

12. Yes they are.

They no longer care about the future, or maybe they see a different future.

[AllentownJake]

13. Colorado is going to be an interesting state in the next couple years

From what I've been hearing, there has been an exodus from California into the Rockies.

[Nikki Stone1]

14. I think that is a huge part of the problem

Middle class Californians started leaving in the late 80s, early 90s. The last 20 years has seen an exodus of the tax base. We'll see what happens with Colorado. I don't know much about their state spending. Any thoughts?

[AllentownJake]

15. A friend who is a political consultant is thinking about taking a race out there

He said there is an interesting dynamic going on where the "native" population isn't as anti-immigration as the whites moving in from Southern California. However, some of the whites are also more liberal and less evangelical on other social issues and economic issues than the natives.

[Nikki Stone1]

16. That sounds about right.

There will be culture wars until everything settles down.

[earth mom]

11. Great OP! And about #6- FDRs Civil Conservation Corps-there is a great documentary on PBS about it.

This really is a must see video:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/ccc/

[taught_me_patience]

17. Many of these are good but i disagree with some of them

I think the main reason for our manufacturing dominance was because Europe and Japanese manufacturing base was completely destroyed in WWII. America was the only manufacturer left.

Free trade has been beneficial to the U.S. economy

Our schools are still the envy of the world.

[AllentownJake]

19. America was doing well in manufacturing prior to the war

I do not believe free trade has been beneficial. If you look at the amount of debt and hours worked by US households and the amount of executive compensation since the beginning of free trade policies in the 1970s you see a negative correlation.

There might be a positive impact on GDP but the average American has been decimated by free trade policies.

Yes, our universities are the envy of the world. Our public schools, not that much. The fact is that in order to get an education from one of these universities the average American needs to go into ridiculous debt to obtain a degree. That and we opened up enrollment to people not from this country which compete with our own for admission.

Everything in our society is now a profit center, from our Universities to our Hospitals. The notion of Public Good is not something people talk about these days.

There is a large public park system that was bequeathed to my hometown and funded by a trust in the early 1900s. I wonder how much of that is taking place in 2009.

[taught_me_patience]

24. I fail to see how free trade has anything to do with ceo compensation

In fact, I think runaway CEO compensation is a result of the rise of the stock market. If a ceo can come in and raise market cap by billions of dollars, they are extravagently rewarded. Free trade has made American companies more competitive in the global marketplace.

[AllentownJake]

26. Productivity gains

Where do you think those are coming from? Do you think they are all coming from computers?

I'll let you in on a secret, if you pay people less, productivity goes up. CEO compensation has been directly going up in proportion with these gains.

The stock market is directly tied to free trade. If people weren't so heavily invested in their 401(k)s they'd be up in arms when an American company moves a plant to China, but since you indirectly own stock in said company, you are less concerned because you don't work there and you benefit when that company moves because some of those productivity gains from paying people less to do more goes directly to you in the form of dividends.

The 401(k) is the biggest Weapon of Mass destruction in the class war.

[laughingliberal]

28. Thank you. I was starting to have that 'through the looking glass' sensation again

you know, the one I get when I read posts from Democrats supporting supply side economics or the free trade policies that have decimated the American working class.

[AllentownJake]

30. Just read any report from Larry Summers or Tim Geithner

Heck Larry Summers once advocated using the third world as a toxic waste dump when he was at the World Bank.

[laughingliberal]

34. Yes, most of my emails to the president

generally include a line which says I'll believe he is ready to stand up for the working class when I read Rahm Emanuel, Tim Geithner, and Larry Summers have decided they need to spend more time with their families.

[AllentownJake]

36. Not going to happen

I loved listening to my President this week talking about a Pacific Rim Free Trade agreement. I was like, well NAFTA was a shining success for the working man....

[laughingliberal]

38. Yes, I found that alarming. Are we not becoming a third world nation

fast enough? Perhaps the thinking is like ripping the bandage off all at once.

[Nikki Stone1]

41. Too fast a fall might bring a real rebellion

Better to boil the frog slowly.

[HughBeaumont]

46. Forbesian lapdogs. On DU. That's what was missing.

Sorry, but I'm not really one of these people who believes destroying long term economic outlook and middle/working/poor class longevity (as Globalism/Free Trade so clearly does) in one country to lift those of another country is smart planning. All this leads to is a "race to the bottom". The proof for this lies in three elements:

1. Wage stagnation. Wages have not kept up with the cost of living, partially because exploitation of foreign workers (who have far lower costs of living) has devalued a great deal of blue and white collar skill sets. This leads to a negative household savings rate. The American worker absolutely cannot compete with foreign wages that wouldn't even allow us to live in a cardboard box under a bridge in this country. That's reality.

2. A ten year record of lousy job creation. Globalization started making headway in the Blue Collar world in the 70s to the mid 90s. It thrusted full throttle when corporate bean counters started looking at the white collar world and said "Hey! Why does cost savings have to be limited to the steelworkers? Let's get more bang for our IT/R&D buck too!" Destroy the middle/working/poor class, leave them with a just-above-poverty 26 unemployment insurance (if they qualify) and toss the cruelly displaced clever buzzphrases like "Retrain!", "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps!" and "a rising tide lifts ALL boats . .. hee hee hee!" Great plan. Only problem is, we happen to be a consumer economy, and not producer economy. So where is the money going to come from if no one can, you know, afford to buy products?

3. Products that no longer depend on quality, but planned obsolecence. How many horror stories about the longevity (or lack of) plastic, non-durable products made overseas are we going to hear about before we wake up? How many products are going to get recalled or have safety violations because toxic materials are being used to produce this stuff? Repair people are no longer needed, because the product is so cheap and low quality, it would better to toss it and buy a new one than fix it. Watch The Story of Stuff sometime. This explains how a consumerist society, driven by continual purchase of shoddy, low-quality garbage we don't need, damages economies and environments.

I'm not mad at other nations. They're just going with the opportunity presented to them. I'm mad at corporations and their bean counters for destroying this one for the purpose of making more money than any one person needs.

[HughBeaumont]

18. And then BOOM-bubble-CRASH came January 1981.

THE end. 28 straight years of Disasternomics. LOOK! Fear them evuuuuuuuuuuuul Soviets! . . . this way you won't notice your wages stagnating and your professions being shipped to Weng Zhou, Malaysia and Guadalawhothehellcares. Free Trade is WAY bettah than PROTECTIONISM . . . for us. You serfs, not so much. Trust us . . . a 401k is FAR better for you than a silly ol' PENSION or Social Seecurity . . .besides, we need that money to fund our unsustainable and forever war-on and bonuses!

[AllentownJake]

21. Ronald Reagan was the great perpetrator of this activity

Of course, the robber barons had to wait till the generation that survived the Great Depression as Adults were dying in order to start their policies. That generation had seen what they had done in the past. They weren't perfect, but they certainly weren't stupid.

[jgraz]

20. Depends what you mean by "Great"

If you're looking for a Great Economic Nation to funnel money to your wealthy cronies with a never-ending supply of uneducated, easily-exploitable drones, we're well on our way to Greatness.

[AllentownJake]

23. Once upon a time

even Republicans desired an end to poverty...Herbert Hoover did, even if his policies didn't lead to it, it was an actual desire of his. There are parts of his life prior to his Presidency where you can see him working to that end. Even Eisenhower had a great love for his common American probably because if it wasn't for going to West Point, he'd still be a Kansas Farmer.

Now, I think both parties are perfectly ok with it, as long as it doesn't disturb their lives in any fashion. Honestly, Barack Obama was temporarily on food stamps, but he also went to a Private High School.

Edited: because I think I have the flu and the sudafed makes me write things, even less comprehensible than normal.

[dysfunctional press]

25. after ww2, we were one of the few industialized nations not in ruins.

that helped a lot at the time.

[AllentownJake]

27. Prior to WW2 we were running a trade surplus

even in the depression we were running a surplus, also our debt load was less. More countries owed us money than we owed them.

[dysfunctional press]

29. and following ww2 we did even better.

for awhile, anyway.

[closeupready]

48. I actually recall the night Dan Rather read that we had officially become a debtor nation.

I was alarmed at the time, but it was no more than a one-line news item before the commercial break.

[LostInAnomie]

31. That's the big one that we often ignore.

While other industrial powers were trying to rebuild their countries after WW2, we sprinted ahead. Now, they're catching up.

[AllentownJake]

32. Actually we rebuilt them for free in two cases

We also stationed a large Military force so they wouldn't rebuild their own militaries which 60 years ago was sound policy.

Something tells me we don't have to worry about Japan and Germany sinking into fascism again right now.

[LostInAnomie]

35. That's not what I'm talking about at all.

The US was left relatively untouched by the war. Our infrastructure, cities, industries, etc. were all in one piece. Compare that to almost all the nations that took part in the European theater. Almost any industry that was capable of producing any heavy machinery or weapons was a potential target for bombing during the war. Their cities were bombed and burned out. Their roads were destroyed. Bridges had to be rebuilt.

Over the years that it took for those countries to get back on their feet, the US was charging ahead. Now that they have rebuilt and we've fallen behind in other areas they are catching up.

[AllentownJake]

37. Most of them have caught up

With the exception of England which had the same political climate we had for 30 years.

The standard of living is better in most of the EU with few exceptions.

Germany for a small nation exports a shit load of things.

[dysfunctional press]

44. which really helped them enourmously.

we had that much more military spending in our budgets over it, while they both had much much less- so we had less of our gnp to invest in other parts of our society, while they had more.

[AllentownJake]

45. Not to mention our bases are a nice little stimulus to their economies

in those areas. Japan wants us out (too many soldiers behaving badly over the years), Germany wants us to stay.

Either way, it is time to re-evaluate the treaty from 1945 that took away their ability to raise an army. I think it would be better for Asia to have a counter balance to China...that isn't us.

[dysfunctional press]

56. at some point, we should have been compensated for the occupation forces.

or pulled them out.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[DireStrike]

39. 11) Swooping in at the end of WWII to claim the top slot.

[AllentownJake]

40. We were on our way there anyway

The Europeans were having trouble with their empires with the locals, kind of like we are now.

[DireStrike]

42. Empires are such a pain in the ass.

Makes you wonder why they go to all the trouble, eh?

[AllentownJake]

43. Well it always starts out good for the wealthy class

They get to rob an indigenous population of their national resources with their superior technology and weaponary, sometimes they are even invited in. However, as they educate locals to control the lower tiers of the empire problems always erupt. Some locals begin to think they should be the kings and other locals think that the people of the country deserve the same rights that the people enjoy in the country that has taken over.

Invariably you need to pay more bribes to keep the locals who could cause revolt pacified, be more brutal to the ones who don't care about money, and send your own people from your lower classes to fight the revolutionaries. Eventually the revolutionaries always win because they have something to die for. Their Children's future and the lower classes of your country are just hired guns protecting other men's property.

[asdfa88550]

47. Great list

[cliffordu]

49. K&R X1000

[Swamp Rat]

51. speaking of great things...

Have you tried the new Ubuntu distro 9.10? I need an expert opinion before I upgrade, as I cannot afford to put my laptop out of commission if it is buggy, or requires a special install. (I'm using 9.04 on a dual partition with XP)

[cliffordu]

53. Not yet - I'll do it on the next couple of days......

I got a mac to do some music production - heavy sampling work and haven't been using my linux box much lately.

i am a fucking traitor, I know it.

[Swamp Rat]

54. No way dude.

You are NOT a traitor.... welcome to the light. O8)

[Chemical Bill]

50. I usually boil it down to a strong middle class.

Your list certainly contains policies and structures which provided for just that. I agree heartily.

Bill

[Laelth]

52. Organized labor belongs at the top of the list.

Otherwise, I heartily agree.

Our capitalists are too stupid to realize that we all prosper only when the working class prospers.

:dem:

-Laelth

[bvar22]

55. We could have all that again....

...IF we had a Political Party that represented the Working Class.

What a concept!
Who wants to start one?



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[tk2kewl]

57. and a formerly very progressive tax structure

that helped to fund the infrastructure projects etc that you mention while not preventing the working class from spending in a consumer economy

[freddie mertz]

58. My family benefitted greatly from these policies...

My dad was a WW2 vet, first in his family to attend university.

And he ended up a distinguished professor, writer of key legislation, mentor to generations of progressive thinkers and policy makers, and founder of a school of research at a VERY MAJOR university.

He credited it ALL to the progressive policies of the 1940s Democrats.

I'm here today, teaching and writing, because of the opportunities granted to my parents, and then to me, during more enlightened times.