Dad accused of forcing son into field, killing him

[cali]

By DAVID N. GOODMAN, Associated Press Writer David N. Goodman, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 14 mins ago

HIGHLAND PARK, Mich. – A 37-year-old father irate over hearing his 15-year-old son had sexual contact with a 3-year-old girl made the teen strip at gunpoint, marched him to a vacant lot and shot him to death despite pleas from the boy and his mother, a relative said.

Michigan authorities filed a first-degree murder charge Wednesday against Jamar Pinkney Sr. in the shooting death Monday of Jamar Pinkney Jr. in the Detroit enclave of Highland Park.

Defense attorney Corbett O'Meara said prosecutors should consider evidence of the father's state of mind over the sex abuse report.

"If something were to happen that would cause a reasonable person to lose control of himself, that is something the prosecution would have to take into account," O'Meara said outside Highland Park District Court.

<snip>

Cherry said the elder Pinkney arrived at the home with a gun, ordered his son to strip and marched him outside despite her protests.

"He got on his knees and begged, `No, Daddy, No,' and he pulled the trigger," Cherry said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091118/ap_on_re_us/us_father_son_slaying_2

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bridgit]

2. sounds like mental illness & oddities are clogging the filter in that gene pool

[MadBadger]

3. With a father like that, no wonder his son was so screwed up.

THe Dad deserves life without parole.

[thunder rising]

4. Where did the kid learn it? Just ask'n...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. Sounds about right for the DU punishment fetishists.

[spoony]

10. Yep.

But when it actually happens they all slide under their rocks.

Edit: I was wrong, some don't.

[seabeyond]

30. and here you are to endorse. nt

[spoony]

35. Is this where I get called a child molester apologist?

For not condoning a sadistic murder? I've really lost all respect for you lately.

[seabeyond]

36. no. i am pretty sure you get it is the "fetish" that is bothersome. nt

[spoony]

39. The fetish is DUers getting off on the idea of vigilante torture and murder.

It happens all the fucking time and THAT's what was said. Clean your bloody reading glasses.

[notesdev]

51. Probably wouldn't happen

if there was any sense that the law was just and a legitimate route to dealing with the scum of our society. Vigilantism is only popular in the absence of achievable justice through the legal system.

[EOTE]

149. So you promote this form of vigilantism?

Chances are, that kid would have suffered pretty dire consequences for his action. But now he'll never have a chance at redemption or contributing anything positive to society. His father is going to spend the rest of his life in prison, at the very least and the rest of his family will be without a husband, father, what have you. Also, that three year old is probably going to find out some day that her abuser was killed by his own father and that his father is spending the rest of his life in jail because of it, that's the kind of thing that could mess someone up more than even the actual abuse. And all because this stupid, vigilante father decided to take matters into his own hands and be judge, jury and executioner. There's a reason we're a nation of laws. No one benefits by getting rid of them.

[notesdev]

155. I don't promote it. The government promotes it.

You say "There's a reason we're a nation of laws."

Wake-up call: no we ain't. If the unprosecuted obscenities of Wall Street and the open bribery in Congress don't convince you, perhaps the endless examples of out-of-control law enforcement officers breaking the law with contempt may. How many years was Rep. Jefferson casting votes to determine what our laws are, even after having been caught by the FBI? Laws made by criminals may technically be laws, but no one could seriously describe this behavior as lawful. Also, does anyone really think that the amount of money you can spend on lawyers is not a major determinant of one's success in the legal system? Buying justice has been going on for so long that it is already a hackneyed meme.


You write: "No one benefits by getting rid of them."

Au contraire, Goldman Sachs has benefited magnificently by it, as have all the sudden millionaires among officeholders, and everyone else who gets away with crimes in the complete absence of enforcement, and all those who profit by assisting it. Post something here about enforcing, say, immigration laws, or drug laws, and you'll quickly find out that even among Democrats there is absolutely no respect for the law in and of itself - a lack of respect that is well earned by the train of, how shall I say it, "abuses and usurpations".*






*bonus points for knowing the source of that phrase without looking it up

[EOTE]

159. You either promote it or you excuse it.

And bringing up examples of times where laws weren't enforced is not a reason to get rid of them. We have an imperfect system of laws. Vigilantism is far, far worse than that.

[notesdev]

162. Examples are one thing

"pattern or practice" is quite another. And we are well into "pattern or practice". Our government is run like the mob.

I'm not the one saying get rid of laws. I'm telling you that they have already been gotten rid of, in substance, and that the reason the law exists in the first place - to protect the members of the society - has been destroyed.

Between the two of us, it appears to me that you are the one making excuses for unlawfulness, and I am the one fervently hoping to return to a state of just and equitable law. "Imperfection" is one thing, but the current situation goes FAR beyond that. King George III was "imperfect" in the application and administration of laws, too - do you think the colonies were wrong to revolt against him?

[EOTE]

163. Vigilantism is not an appeal to return to lawfulness.

Democracy is. Once we step toward the path of deciding that we as individuals have the ability to be judge, jury and executioner, we've lost any hope of becoming an equitable society. Vigilantism is bad.

[seabeyond]

28. fetish my fuckin ass. not the first time hearing missing with kids a mere fetish. is this the new

meme to bring this behavior into acceptance also?

sick anyone

[spoony]

37. Can you read? The poster said nothing even remotely close to that nt

[anigbrowl]

40. You have reading comprehension problems

'fetishists' refers to those who get off on discussing what kind of punishments they'd like to apply to people they believe to be guilty of child abuse. Your interpretation is the exact opposite of what was written above.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

42. Have an adult re-type that for you and so I can decipher what the fuck you are on about.

Maybe they can find your shift key too.

[seabeyond]

60. we just had a thread, fucking children is a fetish. i thought that was what you were saying.

if that isnt what you are saying, my bad

[anigbrowl]

61. If you can't tell the difference, then you should not participate in this discussion.

Really, because that level of reading analysis is sub-literate. It has nothing to do with your opinion on the subject, just that you seem unable to understand what was written.

[seabeyond]

65. ya, cause punishment fetishist makes sense. nt

[anigbrowl]

68. Yes, it does, at least to anyone fluent in English.

If you can't understand what was written, then maybe you should just ask a question instead of accusing people of promoting child abuse. You are acting foolishly and irresponsibly.

[EOTE]

152. +100. It's bad enough that the replies are usually a few notches below comprehensible.

But the fact that the posts aren't even read before responding to them makes discussing with a certain poster slightly less fruitful than banging one's head against the wall.

[Coventina]

172. Thank you! I don't use "ignore"

but I have sure been tempted to use it just because those posts are always so poorly written and nonsensical. When I see a certain poster's name, I just don't bother attempting to read it.

[EOTE]

188. Your mental health will be better off for it.

I know I'm a glutton for punishment when I get tempted and do reply. I don't use ignore either, but I've been trying lately to at least mentally ignore those posts.

[RayOfHope]

190. Whew! I thought I was the only one that felt this way n/t

[EOTE]

150. Please read and comprehend before responding. NT.

[elocs]

6. This story is nothing but sad. It goes to show that children are in more danger from their parents

than from any stranger.

[cali]

9. heartbreaking. And dad needs to spend life in prison for it.

[Fire1]

17. Everybody here is saying the same thing. I feel terrible.

Did you see the one about the mother pimping out her 5 yr. old daughter? The child is dead and the mother is pregnant AGAIN! FORCED STERILIZATION!!

[Texasgal]

77. Ummm...NO.

I don't think so. Keep your hands of my uterus. period.

[Fire1]

142. Um, Fuck YEAH! Just like some people don't need pets

there's an equal number who don't need children. If you're not one of them, don't respond with such angst and stupidity. Btw, how many cali's are there on this site?

[Shell Beau]

180. What does that mean? How many cali's are on this site??

[Shell Beau]

181. And are you willing to force steralization on men too?

What about all the men who father God knows how many children? I know of one man who had 36 children when he died at the ripe old age of 28 PLUS had two more after he was dead. Would he qualify?

[ZombieHorde]

14. I think that claim would require studing child deaths around the world.

How many kids have been killed in wars? How many kids will we kill in Iraq and Afghanistan next month?

Your claim may be true, but we should base such a claim off of research.

[rd_kent]

63. No it does not.

children are in more danger from their parents Really. You think so? From this one incident? You are an ignorant fool.

[elocs]

112. I may be a fool, but I'm not ignorant. You, however, are now on ignore.

:nuke:

[rd_kent]

175. Thats great, ignore those that may be able to teach you something...

Sticking your fingers in your ears and saying lalalalalala does not change things. You still are an ignorant fool.

[renegade000]

92. i think you're right, though it goes deeper than acute acts of violence like this

Parents, ideally, are supposed to teach their children right from wrong, and to provide their children with a safe environment to become a psychologically well-adjusted human being. Now, often due to socio-economic factors it isn't possible to achieve the ideal environment, despite the best intentions of a parent (which is why I'm here, as opposed to the other side, which thinks all people need are some bootstraps).

This story is so disturbing on many levels. First, of course, being the fact that the veracity and details of the allegations against the boy are unknown. Second, assuming the allegations are true, what sort of home environment did the boy have that caused him to develop in such a socially-maladjusted way? I'm sorry, but child molesters don't just randomly pop out of thin-air, despite our natural desire to dehumanize them. Third, he was still a child. The father, it seems, would rather defend his "honor", than get his son help like a parent should. Calling the cops would have been more beneficial than shooting the kid.

[spanone]

7. holy shit....

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightGardener]

15. Everyone deserves a fair hearing, ESPECIALLY at 15. This boy was summarily executed

by someone he probably loved and looked up to. Just sick and sad--there's no positive here for anyone.

[MercutioATC]

19. I'm not arguing legality...it's obviously illegal.

I'm just think we might have gotten an overall positive on this one. Maybe a twofer.

[TwilightGardener]

22. No. There's no positive to a fifteen year old being shot in the head

by his own father, I don't care what he did. That kid may have grown up to never touch another child (he did confess, so he possibly was troubled by his own behavior), but he never got the chance to grow up.

[MercutioATC]

25. The kid raped a toddler.

He's not ever going to do it again.

If you want to blame poor parenting for the kid's behavior, the father is going to jail.


Twofer.

[TwilightGardener]

26. Usually we wait until a court and a jury decide that, thanks.

[MercutioATC]

32. As I said, it's illegal.

But does the story give any indication that the kid DIDN'T rape a toddler?


Brutal as it wound up being, it looks like everybody may have got what they had coming...except the toddler (who has been particularly unrepresented in this discussion).

[PVnRT]

133. Do you know nothing of jurisprudence

One is innocent until proven guilty, not the other around.

"But does the story give any indication that the kid DIDN'T rape a toddler?"

Prove to everyone here that you don't rape dogs and then gouge their eyes out.

[MercutioATC]

158. The 15-year-old admitted to "laying on top of" the toddler...

...and, obviously in a way that made him feel guilty.

If I ever claim to have raped dogs and gouged their eyes out to my mother, you have an excellent point. Otherwise, not so much...

[anigbrowl]

33. I can't help noticing your lack of evidence for this statement.

but I thought perhaps you had read another article where the fact was made clear. However, all I've turned up so far is this:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091118/METRO01/911180394/1410/METRO01/Family--Father-shot-teen-son-over-contact-with-half-sister

Highland Park police officials said the shooting occurred after an argument between the suspect and his son.
Relatives said Jamar Jr. recently admitted that he'd had inappropriate physical contact with a 3-year-old several months ago.
Jamar's aunt, Yolanda Cherry, said a relative took the girl to a doctor to be examined on Sunday, and that there were no indications of sexual abuse.

I think there is rather more to this case than meets the eye, and that your conclusions are not well-founded.

[cali]

50. Say what? You have no fucking way of knowing that.

He may have touched the kid inappropriately. He may have done nothing. He may have raped her. Whatever he did, the father's sick, sadistic murder of his child, is a more heinous crime.

[MercutioATC]

54. I'm not condoning the father's actions.

The 15-year old DID admit that he had inappropriate sexual contact with a toddler.

The kid that fucked with a toddler AND the father who took it upon himself to shoot him are eliminated from society.


Where's the negative?

[TheWraith]

57. The negative? How the fuck do you know the kid deserved it?

How the fuck do you know the "inappropriate contact" he confessed to was anything worth him being fucking murdered for? Anything more serious than a teenage boy feeling up the only female he had access to? That may not be appropriate but it's certainly nothing to be dragged out into a parking lot and executed for.

[MercutioATC]

59. I don't know that he "deserved it"...especially by your standards.

We have only a few facts that are givens at the moment.

1) A 15-year-old had inappropriate sexual contact with a toddler and ADMITTED it.

2) The 15-year-old's father shot and killed him for this.


Whether the kid deserved to die or not, he admitted to inappropriate touching A FUCKING THREE YEAR OLD!

Whether the father just snapped or not, he's going to jail for a long time.


Twofer.

[TheWraith]

62. I'm sorry, I don't consider murdering a child to be a positive thing.

Even if he did something wrong. Hell, even if it was as bad as it possibly could be, and he sexually assaulted the little girl, that does NOT justify summary execution in any sane person's estimation.

How would you feel if somebody decided that your son was behaving inappropriately, without taking the actual circumstances or even anything more than a third-hand retelling into account, and decided to drag him off into a field and shoot him in the head? Would you still think justice had been done? Or just maybe this kid should have been submitted to proper authorities, rather than having his psycho father play judge jury and executioner like we were some third world backwater?

[MercutioATC]

66. As I have stated numerous times, I don't condone the father's actions.

...but I still think we probably netted a positive from this.

[Iggo]

79. Yea, but how do you feel about spanking?

[Papagoose]

80. You're right

Who needs police, lawyers, judges, juries or even laws when we have MercutioATC's brand of vigilante justice?

[RetroLounge]

118. You're an idiot

Thanks for outing yourself to all of us.

At least now I will know that anything you ever say here will mean exactly shit to me and anyone else who has read this drivel from you.


RL

[niceypoo]

128. I think you are projecting

...to be honest

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

143. That's the most colorful response yet!

Congrats!!

[Forkboy]

178. Almost as crass as you.

Guess the advice was too much for you.

[Shell Beau]

160. That is disgusting.

[Occulus]

165. Those two statements directly contradict each other.

They are two diametrically opposed lines of text. Pick ONE, Mercutio. You don't get this one both ways.

[varelse]

191. We only have the mother's word for that

the child is no longer in a position to cooperate with investigators. I'm wondering why the mother did not call the police instead of the father. She did not respond properly to this confession, if in fact it happened at all as she described.

[Mixopterus]

192. There is a flaw in your argument

The 15 year old's admission is reliant upon his perception of a wrongdoing, which can include an innocent action that the teen misinterprets as not being socially acceptable and therefore feels guilt for the non-crime. It's a common occurrence in children and adolescents, and is one of the primary reasons that confessions from children and adolescents are considered so unreliable. Furthermore, a medical examination revealed that no sexual abuse had been inflicted upon the three year old, making this case more than murky and only resolvable by a court of law, if need be.

Because of this, you are making an incorrect logical leap in assuming that the teenager's own perception of his guilt is the same as guilt in actuality. You are essentially finding a beneficial result in an illegal, summary execution where it is well within the realm of possibility that the teen did nothing.

In addition, I would state that summary execution for any crime is illegal, unethical, and in direct conflict with the notion of human rights and dignity. Your justice is not a true justice, it's shallow moral gratification and has no place in proper society.

[TwilightGardener]

209. Excellent reply.

[Posteritatis]

187. In other words, you do condone the father's actions. (nt)

[havocmom]

88. Aren't a lot of child rapists victims of sexual abuse themselves

A trial was gonna come for the teen. Perhaps dad didn't want him testifying?

Just wondering why dad would be opposed to the legal system doing its part, and yes, I can understand mindless rage, but one might consider a wider range of possibilities.

[tonysam]

141. The kid did not. Read the article. It said no such thing. n/t

[EOTE]

153. You're one sick puppy.

No, the kid did not admit to raping a toddler. He admitting to touching her inappropriately. And you think it's good for that 15 year old to die because of that CONFESSION. That is so fucking sick and disgusting, I don't even know how to deal with it other than to say that you'd be much happier in Somalia or Afghanistan where vigilante justice is expected. Sick, sick sick.

[lolly]

213. What did he do to the toddler?

I just glanced at the article, but it said 'sexual contact." Is that necessarily rape? And how much evidence is there?

Second, does anybody else find it particularly telling that the father made his son strip naked, marched him into a public place, and shot him and left his naked body for everyone to see? Does it really take a Mensa member to figure out where the kid (assuming he was guilty) leaned all about taking advantage of children?

[JNelson6563]

126. You are correct.

The boy wasa obviously disturbed and needed help. One of the few who was obligated to help shot him to death.

This whole episode is just so incredibly sad, I can't believe anyone sees any good in it at all.

Julie

[TheWraith]

31. How the fuck do you know the boy DID anything worth dying for?

The story says he admitted to "improper sexual contact." If that consisted of teenage hormones driving him to grope the girl or put her hand in his pants, do you still think he deserved to die?

[Raschel]

93. Dad sounds like a real sicko, executing him while the mom and his son beg for mercy. And

what's with the stripping naked part? Yep, sounds like a real abusive dink who either molested or straight out abused this boy.

[RetroLounge]

116. Bullshit.

:puke:

RL

[Romulox]

127. Why is this goddamned website FILTHY with "compassionate conservative" types?

:puke:

[BlooInBloo]

11. Makes me wonder if there's something the dad didn't want the kid to say at trial.

[stray cat]

41. Most parents don't want it shouted from the roof tops that they raised a son who molests toddlers

[havocmom]

89. If the intent was to not have the neighbors talking about a trial, it missed, didn't it?

Consider that a lot of abusers of children were, themselves, abused. Dad just might have been more concerned about his own hide if the son were put on trial and testified.

[Shell Beau]

194. Or that he molested his son.

Usually it is a vicious cycle.

[PassingFair]

13. What a nightmare.

I feel so badly for that mother.

[bikingaz]

203. Dreadful situation all a around - no positives at all

Toddler - potentially messed up for life
15 yr old - dead
father - going to jail
mother - without husband or son

contrary to some posts here there is no upside to this story.

[jobycom]

16. I wonder if the 3 year old was related to him.

Not defending anyone, just trying to understand. If it's mental illness, that takes logic out of it. Otherwise, if the father is related to both victims, he's in a horrible situation. Or maybe he's just evil, I don't know. Or maybe the son was. I had a brother who was pure evil, and did things I might have killed him over if I had known at the time. I think my father would have, too, and there's not a violent bone in either of our bodies.

Horrible story. Wish I hadn't read it.

[ecstatic]

91. The 3 year old child is the father's daughter, and the half-sister

of the deceased.

[jobycom]

97. Good God. nt

[Xithras]

111. Well, I can understand the fathers reaction a LITTLE more.

The horror of realizing that your 3 year old was raped can only be exceeded by the horror of knowing that your other child was the one that did it. I can see where normal thought processes might go out the window.

[Ikonoklast]

114. There was no rape. Read the OP.

[Xithras]

173. Any sexual contact with a person incapable of consent is rape.

Quit splitting hairs. As a victim of child molestation, I personally think that most molesters should be tied to a pole, doused in gasoline, and incinerated alive. Not very liberal of me, but we all have our pet "issues". This happens to be mine.

[katkat]

207. not other child

If what has been posted here is true, the father's three year old daughter was the victim of the 15 year old boy who was unrelated to either the daughter or the father.

In those terms, I can understand the father going nuts,

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

18. I hope the 3 year old child will be okay.

Mom would have better off calling the Police after that confession. So sad all the way around.

[Fire1]

24. The boy is obviously disturbed. I think the little girl was his

step sister. This boy pleaded for his life while being pistol whipped in a vacant lot naked. I hope that SOB rots in jail and then hell.

[stray cat]

43. sounds like the punishment given to the son....

[Fire1]

55. What??? n/t

[Fire1]

56. huh????

[Tim01]

20. So you find out you have produced a 15 year old son who is raping toddlers. What do you do?

Sit him down and have a talk with him?

This is a really bad situation. Is the kid going to stop raping toddlers because of some therapy? I don't believe that.
He is only 15 years old. How many toddlers is he going to get ahold of before he is caught, then how many more before he is sent away forever?

So, the kid you produced is probably going to rape a whole bunch of other peoples kids. Or...not....


I can't totally blame the guy. If my dog was killing other peoples pets and I couldn't stop it, I would shoot the dog.I would hate myself,and I would feel bad for as long as I was alive, but I would do what needed to be done.

I don't think I would make the same decision as what that guy did, but I can understand.

[TheWraith]

44. Who said anything about raping toddlers?

The kid admitted to what the news article called "inappropriate sexual contact." Can you say definitively what that means? Do you have a psych report detailing expert opinions that the boy was a sociopathic pedophile? Do you know, in fact, that the boy did ANYTHING other than let his hormones drive him into inappropriate touching?

[stray cat]

Is that why adults sexually molest children - hormones?

[TheWraith]

52. Do you know exactly what happened?

Can you detail what the boy did, and how serious a transgression it was compared to, say, something a fully grown adult would do?

[Tim01]

64. You know, it was a 3 year old.

I don't think for a second that 15 year old boys do sexual stuff to 3 year olds as course of normal behavior.
I don't know exactly what did happen, but what ever it was it was enough for the boys father to put a bullet through him.

[anigbrowl]

76. Talk about circular logic

"I don't know exactly what did happen, but what ever it was it was enough for the boys father to put a bullet through him."

The whole reason the guy is on trial is because we as a society have found people who engage in vigilante 'justice' are highly unreliable guardians of public order to start with.

[Fire1]

48. He IS still a child. Who cares whether you believe therapy

works or not! Many children have been helped through counseling and intense therapy. Who knows what kind of an environment he was in and the effects of that environment. It sounded like the father was absentee, as well, and that certainly didn't help. I hope that "father" rots in jail.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

49. To be fair, rape is not mentioned, it was inappropriate touching. We do not know

yet just what was inferred here.

[cali]

53. Your post is sick and disgusting. I hope like hell YOU don't ;have children

Even if the kid did rape a three year old, what his father did is beyond sick and sadistic.

[Tim01]

70. Your childish emotional reaction is touching.

Keep living. The world is waiting for you.

[cali]

73. I've lived plenty long enough to know that the sadistic murder of a child

is a heinous act regardless of what that child may have done. Vigilante justice is simply an oxymoron.

[PVnRT]

135. "Childish emotional reaction"

You mean, like yours?

[Cali_Democrat]

72. WTF?

Summarily executing a child is understandable?

:wtf:

[LeftishBrit]

113. Murdering your child is NEVER understandable or OK

'So you find out you have produced a 15 year old son who is raping toddlers. What do you do?'

Turn him in to the police? Call social services? At any rate, not murder.

No wonder the boy was messed up, with that sort of father. Not that the father's character excuses the boy's actions - but the same is true the other way around. Even more so, as a 15-year-old has more chance of reform than an adult.

[Shell Beau]

195. You don't compare killing a child to killing dogs.

Dogs kill instinctively at times. WTF is wrong with you? How can you possibly understand how any parent could shoot their child who is begging for their life??? I am here to protect my child NO MATTER WHAT she does. Fuck that noise. The child could have been helped. I seriously hope you aren't a parent, and if you are, I seriously hope your child is perfect.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Irreverend IX]

23. If the son did indeed molest a 3-year-old...

There's not much reason to mourn his passing, although the father still needs to be held responsible.

[ecstatic]

86. The article failed to mention that the 3 year old is his daughter nt

[Shell Beau]

196. I am sure the mother who watched her child beg for his life from

his father would beg to differ. Good God what is wrong with some of the people here.

The boy confessed to doing something inappropriate. Was that not a cry for help? And who knows what kind of abuse this boy may have faced under a father who could shoot him while he begged for his life. This should be mourned because it is so disgusting. The boy needed some help. He will never have the chance to get it. The poor little toddler is now without her brother and her father.

Some people here were so quick to forgive Roman Polanski. I am so confused.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[pipi_k]

29. So he shot his son over allegations

Apparently the kid hadn't been convicted of anything.

I hope this fucker finds out that the allegations weren't true. I hope he has to live with himself the rest of his miserable life.


This isn't even like a 30, 40, 50 or older man doing disgusting things.

It's a teenager. Still a child, from where I am.

And something else that gives me chills...people tend to do to others what has been done to them. So if the kid DID have some kind of sexual contact with that child, there's a reason for it. That sort of thing doesn't just pop up in a vacuum.

[stray cat]

45. Supposedly the kid confessed to his mom based on the article

[TheWraith]

46. He confessed to "inappropriate contact."

Which could mean anything... and in any event is NOT a fucking excuse for MURDER.

[pipi_k]

122. Thank you!

Inappropriate contact could be just about anything, from kissing her to feeling her up or even making her touch him.

Inappropriate contact probably wasn't rape, and you're right...whatever it was didn't justify murder...

[jobycom]

106. By the time my brother was 15

he had raped or tried to rape maybe a dozen girls, including a close relative. He would sneak into a bedroom, hold them down, rape them until he was bored of it, and tell them if they ever told anyone he would kill them. The relative he raped is still a mess to this day from hiding it from everyone and living through it. She won't even tell us how many times it happened, but she was probably about six or seven when it started. He also tried to rape my girlfriend when she was about twelve, I guess. Same thing... He broke into her bedroom and told her if she made a sound he would kill her. She got away--at least she tells me she did--and ran out of the house screaming, and he bolted. She never told anyone until she was 40, and then she told me, alone. Never told her husband or her parents, even. She said she still has nightmares about it, about the cold look in his eyes, and the certainty that he could kill her as easily as look at her. I actually saw that look a few times, though he never raped me or any boys I've heard of.

Before he was 18 he had raped I don't know how many girls, from probably around six to about his age. One got pregnant, and to keep her father from killing him, he married her, then fled to Florida where he lived by pimping her for drugs and food until she finally left. After that he lived by convincing elderly women he met at churches or soup lines or other charity services that he was a reformed derilict who just needed a chance, so that they took him in for a while, until he robbed everything he could from them. Probably raped a few of them, too, from the stories I've heard.

He died six years ago of a drug overdose, in his mid 40s, having lived a life they write horror stories about, ruining more lives than anyone knows. I don't know if he ever killed anyone. I'd honestly be surprised if he hadn't. I saw the look in his eyes when he knew he could get away with something. Pure sociopath.

I have no idea if the 15 year old in this story was like that or not, and I'm not going to jump to conclusions either way based on what a fifteen year old is not supposed to be like when I have no other details on the story. I will say that I don't approve of the death penalty under any circumstances, and that nothing justifies what this man did. He has to be punished to the full extent of the law, with consideration of any extraneous circumstances. I will also say I'd have killed my brother myself if I had known what he did, and if my father had killed him I'd have been proud of him for it. I never talk like that, and I'm as nonviolent a pacifist as you will find around here.

You could say he should have just been put into jail, but as far as I know, my brother never served a day in his life in jail. No one would testify against him once they saw that look in his eyes, and he knew how to work the sympathy angle. He could look anyone in the eye and swear any lie he wanted and they always, always, always believed him. Cops, psychiatrists, social workers, judges, preachers... people you'd think would by cynical enough to see it.

I hope the father gets a fair trial. If he's a monster I hope he is punished in the extreme for it. If he's not, it probably won't matter what they do to him, but I hope he gets a fair trial, anyway. I've learned never to form first impressions, to always wait until you know the facts. I've also learned not to trust the media, because they don't give a damned about facts. They just want a story to make people mad, so people will read them.

[eqfan592]

107. Wow, that's a powerful story.

I think this is in part what Tim01 and others were trying to convey as well. Thank you for sharing this with us, it does bring things a bit into perspective.

[pipi_k]

125. I understand how painful it is...

my daughter (and at least five other little girls) were molested by my brother-in-law. Not raped...molested, although I never did find out exactly what happened and I don't even want to know the details.

This was over 30 years ago, and my daughter still suffers from lots of problems associated with it.

I can't say I never wanted to kill the pervert, but I never would, and I wouldn't have applauded anyone who did. For him to die would have been too easy.

I'm a firm believer in divine retribution, even though I'm an Agnostic/Atheist. This guy has been punished by Life far worse than any punishment I ever could have thought up for him.

Every so often I'll hear about some new awful thing that's happened to him and I have absolutely NO empathy whatsoever. He's reaped what he sowed...and more. But he was a grown man when he chose to sexually abuse all those little girls. Probably long past any help.

I feel awful for that 15 year old kid who was merely a babe (IMO) and might have been helped by counseling. :(

[jobycom]

My brother wouldn't have been helped by counseling, that's my point.

He had plenty of counseling. People don't understand true sociopaths. They don't struggle over doing wrong, they just don't see a difference between right and wrong. Counseling assumes that the person has at least some internal desire to do the right thing. A person who has no such instinct at all won't change. Bobby would put up a show of resisting, then slowly caving in, then vowing to change and do good, but it was just his way of manipulating the situation. He would use people's sympathy and confidence in his new self to get away with more. He liked to hurt people. That's what he thought was moral and good, I guess, or else there was just nothing in him that could have decided between moral and good and evil. He even felt--like Hannibal Lector although he was more like Forrest Gump in intelligence--that his way of seeing the world was superior to those around him who cared about right and wrong, and who sacrificed their pleasures so as not to hurt people.

When I talk about killing him, there's no thought of revenge in that. That's not what motivates me at all. I'm talking about stopping him from hurting more people. I wouldn't have found any joy in killing my own brother. I'm glad he's dead now, but I don't feel any happiness or satisfaction over it, just a sense of completion that he's not hurting or maybe killing anymore. It's the old conundrum they always ask about Hitler--if you encountered him as a child, would you kill him to prevent what he did? I don't believe killing Hitler would have stopped what happened in Germany, but you know what the question means.

If you knew that someone you were responsible for was going to kill and hurt a lot of people, and had already killed and hurt a lot of people, and that he would never go to jail for it because he could always fool the courts, and that he would NEVER change because he took pleasure in hurting people--and understand I left out the really bad stuff in the story I told--what would you do? What would you wish done? It's not an easy question.

And no, I don't condone what the father in this story did, and I have no idea what the son he shot was like. My point isn't about the specifics of that case, it's more about the people who respond with absolute severity to a story when they have the barest of details about it.

[The Doctor.]

131. The boy in the OP was different;

"The boy's mother, Lazette Cherry, told the Detroit Free Press that her son told her he had improper sexual contact with the girl."

He was looking for help.

[jobycom]

157. You don't know that.

Sociopaths confess to things when they are cornered. They weigh the odds of whether they have a better chance of surviving by confessing or continuing to hide. My brother confessed to stuff all the time. He stole a car, he robbed a neighbor's house... When he had no way out, he confessed and relied on his ability to fool people. There's no detail in that simple line in the story. No idea of what made him confess, of the emotions going on. She may have discovered it on her own and forced him to confess. You can't decide someone's life or death based on one line in a story. Or their worth.

Like I said, I don't know what the boy or the father were like. I know the boy did a horrible thing, and the father did a horrible thing. Maybe the kid was a saint who accidentally brushed against his little sister, or just felt aroused by her, and felt guilt so horrible he confessed, and his father was a violent psycho who had delusions of honor killing. Or maybe the son was a sociopath who had done things like this continuously through life and the father finally snapped when his own daughter became the victim and decided in an emotional breakdown to end the problem for the world. Or maybe it's a more normal story somewhere in between, of a man under tremendous stress becoming enraged over a painful wrong done to his daughter by a slightly rebellious but otherwise normal son who immediately regretted what he did.

The whole range of possibilities is included in that story, and there are no hints of what really happened. People are reacting to buzzwords like "father," "son," "killing," "gun," as well as the way the story is crafted to create sensational outrage (remember that the writer is a salesman trying to sell this story) and they are filling in their own experiences and judging accordingly without knowing the facts. That's the only point I'm making.

[FedUpWithIt All]

161. Isn't that the point? Nobody will EVER know. The boy was killed.

He could have been a decent kid that felt shame for the admitted act of laying on top of his sister while thinking sexual things or he could have been a raging sociopath.

The evidence in the stories point to the former. Even medical evidence supported the boys claims.

[jobycom]

166. The point was that people were going off on the original story without knowing.

As more details come out, we have a better idea of what happened. We had almost nothing in the OP story, but people were ready to kill the man anyway. Which is darkly amusing, that they wanted to kill a man who killed his son without having all the details without having all the details.

[seabeyond]

34. this is a horrible, horrible story. for all around. breaks my heart. nt

[stray cat]

38. So tragic all the way around

[msongs]

47. the defense attorney needs to be disbarred asap nt

[Silent3]

58. If the kid had instead told his father that he'd gotten drunk then drove a car...

...and hurt a three year-old girl, even killed a three year-old girl, and his father then executed him in cold blood for the offense, you wouldn't have anywhere near as many people saying "Well, maybe it didn't turn out so bad after all" or worse, outright cheering on the father's actions.

But "inappropriate sexual contact".... DIE, FUCKER! DIE!!! THAT FATHER IS A HERO!!!

[jobycom]

109. "Father kills teenager who raped his three year old daughter."

I imagine if they had gone with that headline, and hidden the fact that the teen was his son instead of that the raped toddler was his daughter, a lot of the "EXECUTE HIM!!" folk would be saying "Give him a medal."

People are too easily manipulated by headlines.

[tonysam]

67. More from the Detroit News

Highland Park police officials said the shooting occurred after an argument between the suspect and his son.

Relatives said Jamar Jr. recently admitted that he'd had inappropriate physical contact with a 3-year-old several months ago.

Jamar's aunt, Yolanda Cherry, said a relative took the girl to a doctor to be examined on Sunday, and that there were no indications of sexual abuse.

"There is nothing normal about killing your child," Cherry said. "I don't know why he shot him. He was a good boy. This is so sad."

More

[TexasObserver]

69. Such vigilante action is abhorrent, irrespective of the alleged misdeed.

First, we know only that the boy was accused of something. Maybe he did it. Maybe he didn't

Second, we do not know the level of his misconduct, if it did occur, but the terminology does not suggest penetration or sodomy.

Third, the father killing the boy could be something far more sinister. If the boy is sexually twisted, the one or ones who twisted him are likely very close to him, such as his father.

We have a process because it's stupid to jump the gun and mete out frontier justice. The nature of the accusation doesn't change that. For all we know, this could be the wrong boy. Perhaps the child didn't identify him, or intended to identify another.

[tonysam]

71. It sounds like there is a lot more to the story, especially, as noted in my link above,

this alleged incident happened some months ago but had recently admitted it.

In any case, there is a legal system to handle such matters. Parents don't play judge, jury, and executioner.

[Jkid]

74. There are other ways to deal with this.

The criminal justice system was available instead of him murdering his own sun extra-legally. He could have gotten counseling for the incident, he could have gotten help. Instead he murdered his own son. He'll be sent to prison, and then labeled in prison as a child killer, and will die before he reaches old age.

It's inevitable.

[slackmaster]

75. Wow, what an asshole

:nuke:

[latebloomer]

78. This story is just horrific

and I cannot believe that there are DUers who actually think this sick man's execution of his child was a good thing.

I don't even recognize this place.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

81. Yeah, really sick

There is no indication that the kid raped the child. The level of inappropriate contact is not disclosed. Vigilante justice is never appropriate, no matter what the crime is.

I respect "freepers" much more than the sadist that post on this site. At least the freerepublic crowd are open with who they are.

[Liberal_in_LA]

82. tragedy. horrible

[deutsey]

83. Sometimes I hope the Mayans were right and 2012 is the end.

These kinds of stories are becoming too frequent.

[ecstatic]

84. I'm curious about what some of you would do if you had access to

the person who molested/raped your daughter. Just curious. What makes it even weirder is the fact that the person who did that was his own son. The father works at the post office too, which I'm sure didn't help much.

[latebloomer]

85. If it were my son?

I would get him the help he needs, pronto.

I wouldn't strip him and march him into a field and shoot him in the head while he pleads for his life.

Jesus Christ.

[ecstatic]

87. The boy did try to seek help... so I think there was a good chance

he could have been reformed. It's tragic all the way around.

[pipi_k]

129. As I posted somewhere upthread...

I may have wanted to kill the man who sexually abused my daughter, but I never would have. I didn't even lay a hand on him when, after being confronted with the evidence, he calmly said that "They misconstrued it" (meaning the girls mistook whatever he did as being dirty and nasty but it really wasn't).

I only know part of it. It's hard to "misconstrue" someone's hand inside your pajamas, on your private parts, as they're "fixing the blankets". There's more that happened that I don't even want to think about.

And you know what really pisses me off?

My sister...his wife...I feel she knowingly aided and abetted him. They would have kids stay overnight at their home. The kids slept upstairs in a loft area. Instead of going up to "check the kids" in the middle of the night, she let him go up, even when it was only girls staying over. He always insisted, and she never said, "Let's do it together". And she never questioned why it took him so long to just check on the kids.

We were the best of friends before all this came out. Now we've barely spoken since 1985 or so. This broke the entire family up.

Nobody believed he did what he was accused of. Not until one of my nieces (his daughter) tried to commit suicide and confided in another one of my sisters that her father had done some inappropriate things to her when she was younger.

Anyway, even the legal system failed these little girls. He got four months in county jail and two years probation. Moved to Florida, where he no doubt continued his sicko shit.

[lonestarnot]

90. OMG

:cry:

[Odin2005]

94. What the father did was wrong, but...

given the sick thing the teen did I don't think the dad was is a rational state of mind.

[FedUpWithIt All]

99. The teen laid on top of the 3 yr old. n/t

[Libertas1776]

95. Am I taking crazy pills or something?

What is with some of you people. If the kid did commit the sex offense, then he should have been arrested. And if he could have been given help, treatment whatever somehow or just plain locked up, that's for the court to decide. YOU DON'T FUCKING take somebody, let alone your own son, and pull an old yeller on him because you think you are judge jury and fucking executioner. We still live in a society with laws last I checked. This isn't the old West or the deep South where you blow someone away with your Winchester or tie a rope to a tree.

[Odin2005]

104. I'll admit that I have very personal reasons that this gives me irrational blood-lust.

I have a close physically disabled friend who was raped several months ago, I honestly would have beat the brains out of the rapist had I got a hold of him. I know it's irrational and wrong, I can't help it.

[cali]

117. your comment is eminently sane. some of the comments on this thread, however,

are horrifying. As shocking as anything I've seen here.

[kwassa]

96. I'm wondering if the father had sexually abused the son he shot.

Many of these abuse situations are cyclic, passed on from one generation to the next.

[FedUpWithIt All]

98. The boy admitted to "lying" on the 3 yr old. He told his mother he knew it was wrong.

Those saying the boy deserved to be executed should be ashamed. Sick.

>>>There wasn’t a rape, Cherry said her son told her. But he confessed to his mother that he knew lying on top of the baby was wrong, she said.

So she called her son's father and told him what she believed happened in his home on Newport on Detroit’s east side.

“I called and told his father this isn’t something you sweep under the rug,” the devastated mother said today.

His father showed up at the house Monday afternoon with a gun, she said.

“He started beating him right here,” Cherry said from her living room. “I said, ‘No, please stop!’ ”

But the father marched Jamar Jr., a sophomore at Martin Luther King High School, outside.

“He got on his knees and begged, ‘No, Daddy! No!’ and he pulled the trigger,” she said. “There wasn’t nothing that my son wouldn’t do for his father. He loved his father so much."<<<

http://www.freep.com/article/20091118/NEWS01/91118026/1318/Mom-says-dad-shot-son-after-hearing-of-abuse

[mzmolly]

102. "Yolanda Cherry, said a relative took the girl to a doctor to be examined on Sunday, and that there

were no indications of sexual abuse."

The child told. He must have wanted help?

Such a sad story all around. :(

[FedUpWithIt All]

103. I agree. Horrifically sad.

I really cannot bear to think of the terror and heartbreak he must have endured. Too horrible.

[SidDithers]

124. Kick for additional, accurate information...nt

Sid

[applegrove]

100. The poor mother. She was living with 2 sickos.

[proteus_lives]

101. Not going to mourn a pedo's death but the father deserves to be in jail too.

[cali]

134. I mourn his death. I mourn it deeply. The poor kid was forced to strip

and kneel in a field where his father executed him as he pleaded for his life. Anyone who can't exercise a little compassion for this child is a sick shit.

[proteus_lives]

168. Sometimes I wish I could do the same to the pedo that ripped up my sister's family.

I try to feel "a little compassion" for a pedo but then I see my niece's crying face and I can't summon up any compassion anymore. I'm not applauding what the father did but I'm not mourn the death either.

[TicketyBoo]

137. A 15-year-old

is not a pedophile.

[proteus_lives]

167. If he molested a child, then yes he is.

[TicketyBoo]

204. He is a child, himself

and naturally curious. It's quite unlikely that someone who is this immature is going to continue this sort of behavior with children as an adult. (Not inconceivable, but unlikely, especially if counseling and proper sex education is provided.)

[proteus_lives]

214. Sick.

Molestation is being naturally curious? He's 15, he knows better.

Such behavior at that age is evidence of a new-born predator. Rapists and pedophiles often start young.

So if you caught your 15 year-old son raping his little brother/sister, you'd chalk it up to "just being curious" and send him to sex-ed?

[TicketyBoo]

215. Except

nowhere in any of the accounts was there anything about penetration.

None of the accounts says it was rape.

Maybe at 15 a boy would "know better" than to lie upon a little girl (which is what the news accounts indicate happened) or maybe he would not. It would depend on the individual, his maturity and his mental capacity.

[Shell Beau]

140. He was 15. He needed help.

I mourn the fact that he died at the hands of his father while begging for his life. How terrible. How sad. While the mother was pleading as well.

[Jester Messiah]

151. Well, no, the father should have shot himself next.

The way I see it, killing the kid was the father's way of taking responsibility. "I brought you into this world, you are a monster, it's my responsibility to see that you don't hurt anyone else." BLAM.

The next step would be to say "The child I brought into this world became a monster and hurt somebody. My culpability is no less than his." BLAM.

If you're going to do something, don't do it half-assed...

[budkin]

105. Boy I was having a shitty day until I read this...

Fucking terrible.

[ZenKitty]

108. Both acts are beyond abhorent

What a tragic situation. Hurts my heart. :( Hope that baby girl has all the love and support she needs and then some.

[tmyers09]

110. Such a sad story.

No matter what somebody has been accused up, straight up murder -especially that of your own son- is beyond comprehension.

"No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another no matter how reprehensible the behavior -- that is why we have laws," Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said today in a statement announcing the charges.

Vigilantism never works. Shame on those who have said this story is justified. A fifteen year old kid is dead.

[Echo In Light]

115. Maybe dad being so fucked up contributed to son's inability to control unhealthy impulses?

Either way, for a guy who hates sexual predators, he just ensured that he'll be spending the rest of his days w/some.

[TransitJohn]

119. So where are all the DU guys cheering this murderer?

Where are all the DU members who fantasize about doing exactly what this murderer did?

[TwilightGardener]

120. Did you NOT read the posts in this thread? The wackos who think

the father was justified, or think this kid deserved to die AT FIFTEEN??? DU is a sick, sick place sometimes.

[rvablue]

121. Why must DUers turn on each other every time a tragic story like this is posted?

I don't get it.

It's a horrible, terrible sad story.

Threads like this always have people pushing some agenda, squeezing out some broad societal meaning from it.

Others love to join in on the thread, specifically to attack and call out straw man DU apologists.

I don't get it. And it only adds to the awfulness of having to read a story like this. Sad.

[Romulox]

130. There are people upthread excusing summary child executions...

Do you reckon they do so because they aren't looking to elicit a response? :shrug:

[Hassin Bin Sober]

136. And it's the one of the handful of douche-bag freepers we have on this board ..

... who jump in to these threads with their freeper bullshit. It's the same people over and over. Why they haven't been banned is a mystery.

[EnlightenedOne]

123. I haven't read this whole thread

BUT - if all the boy did was lay on top of the 3 year old - perhaps all he wanted was to feel close to pure love - it may not have been sexual at all.

[TicketyBoo]

138. It was sexual

or he wouldn't have felt "wrong" about it. Closeness one time may have led to something more the next time, and I believe that's why he confessed. He likely was afraid of and confused about his feelings.

However, this was a 15-year-old boy with raging hormones, not some pedophile.

He needed a little counseling to sort out his feelings. He did NOT need a bullet in the head.

[Thickasabrick]

201. Your assuming that what he felt was "wrong" was actually wrong.

We don't know - and never will. Maybe he was playing around with her and wrestling or something and got a boner. Maybe that's what he felt bad about or wrong.

We will never know.

[TicketyBoo]

205. Not really.

I wasn't really assuming anything about what he actually did. The fact that he felt the need to confess says that something sexual happened, at least in his own mind.

That was my point, and nothing more. I think it was tragic.

[Coventina]

139. Well, this is so downthread that no one will ever read it, but here goes:

The bottom line of this story is that a man murdered his son. Premediated murder.

It really doesn't matter how old the son was, 15 or 51. What that man did was MURDER!

For heaven's sake people!!!! Do we believe in the rule of law or not?!?!?

Vigilanteism is NOT JUSTICE!!!

And don't give me any crap about how "you would feel differently if it was your daughter."

This is correct. I would feel differently. That is why laws are not based on emotions. That is why people have to recuse themselves from investigating, representing, judging, or serving on a jury when they have a personal connection to a case.

If that boy had molested my daughter, it is entirely possible that I might have harmed him (I can't picture cold-blooded murder, but you never know). Guess what? It would still be a crime. And I would still deserve to be arrested, and possibly convicted, and serve whatever sentence I was given.

This is how civilization works. If you don't like it, go live in the jungle.

[MercutioATC]

144. I read it.

I completely agree, that the father's actions were criminal.

I also see that he'll likely be punished for that crime...and a child molester (whether 15 or 51) will not molest another child.


Odd and unfortunate sequence of events, but except for the molestation victim, everything seems to have worked out.

[RetroLounge]

145. Still cheerleading murder I see.

:eyes:

RL

[cali]

147. Not just murder but sadistic child murder is what he's cheering. sick

[cali]

146. Nothing worked out. A child was heinously and sadistically murdered

as he pleaded for his life, and you call that working out? As is reported upthread the three year old was taken to the doc and evidently NOT raped. So for perhaps touching her inappropriately a child was murdered brutally. That is what you call working out.

Your posts in this thread are jaw droppingly vile.

[MercutioATC]

148. I guess it depends on one's perspective.

We have a dead child abuser and a murderer that's going to prison. In today's society, that's a win.

Hopefully, the toddler is too young to feel long-lasting effects from the abuse.

[FedUpWithIt All]

154. In your limited perspective i do not expect that you would be able to fathom the EXTREME consequence...

the toddler will likely experience as a result of her FATHER'S actions.

Too young to feel the long term affects of the abuse of having her brother lay on top of her? Possibly.

Probably not too young to recover from having her father MURDER her brother in cold blood. Likely, the one year old halfbrother of the murdered boy will also live an altered life as the result of the actions of the heinous murderer's selfish actions. Certainly, the mother will never be the same.

I was sickened by your responses in this thread so i wish you enlightenment in the areas of empathy and compassion.

[MercutioATC]

156. My experiences aren't that limited.

You may disagree with my appraisal, but that disagreement isn't based in my supposed ignorance.

I've had people I loved really screwed up from early childhood abuse by another, older, child...and I have very limited tolerance for people who abuse children, regardless of their age.

Thanks for your "enlightenment", but I don't consider 15-year-olds who molest toddlers worthy of compassion.

[FedUpWithIt All]

164. I said your perspective, which IS limited. Not your experience.

I see you have drawn back your initial "rape" justifications for your sick comments. Notice how facts have a way of changing "perspective". The boy was not a rapist like you initially tried to claim. He was a young boy who laid on top of his sister. That is the ONLY information you have to go on.

The guilt he felt could have come just as easily from fantasizing about the swimsuit model her saw on tv the day before while he had physical contact with his sister. Some children are made to feel shame for ANY sexual feelings or fantasizing. The point is that YOU have no idea what the boy was thinking. Neither did his father. The only thing known is that the the boy felt a sexual feeling or thought (about what, precisely, nobody knows, and the boy is no longer sharing his feelings) and laid on top of his sister, (even the details of this are not clear).

You are not the only one, by a very long shot, who has been affected by child abuse in some form. Many of us also have low tolerance for child abuse and this is why we are sickened by your comments that the murder of a CHILD (the affects of which will affect countless innocents) is a WIN situation. You, sir, are applauding child abuse and it is shameful how easily you appear to do so.

[Shell Beau]

183. What about the effects of knowing her dad murdered her brother?

Or the effects of having a father in jail for life? I can see you are really concerned about her welfare all the way around here.

You know the kid could have gotten some help and worked through his issues. But now he is dead at 15 by the hands of someone who should have done anything in his power to keep him safe. And I am just guessing here, but this child more than likely had issues because of his nasty ass father.

[uppityperson]

186. Shame on you. Seriously, shame on you

[Occulus]

169. You are one sick puppy.

Get some help.

[Coventina]

170. Thanks for reading, but you completely missed my point.

You say that the father took criminal action by killing his son, but then conclude that "everything...worked out."

No, the committing of a crime does NOT allow the committing of ANOTHER crime. This is what civilization attempts to prevent. Personal revenge is not justice.

***********************

I hesitate to comment on the boys actions, because no matter what he did, his father's act was criminal. Even if he had raped her in every orifice and then set her on fire, what his father did was STILL PREMEDITATED MURDER. (Granted, if he had caught the boy in the act, that would be a totally different story).

However, from what we know at this point (we may or may not ever learn more) it seemed that all he did was lay on top of his sister and think sexual thoughts.

Now, I'm the oldest sibling in my family, and I couldn't count the number of times I laid on top of my younger siblings while playing, rough-housing, fighting, etc. Now, I never thought any sexual thoughts about them while doing it, but in theory (as long as the boy didn't fondle anything) what he did to her wouldn't be any more damaging than what I did to my brother & sister.

I apologize in advance if there was more to it than that, and I missed the information.

[Forkboy]

182. I don't know what you do to make you so stupid, but it's working.

[dionysus]

212. !

:rofl:

[Thickasabrick]

202. You don't know he was a fucking child molester!! nt

[jobycom]

171. That's a pretty unfair interpretation of law in America

First, it's not murder until a jury rules that it's murder. Second, it hasn't been proven to be premeditated. The man may not have intended to kill him, but in a rage pulled the trigger anyway. That's often second degree murder, or sometimes even manslaughter. Hell, Jayson Williams just got sentenced for "aggravated assault" for shooting his limo driver point blank in the chest with a shotgun.

Third, the law always considers the details before making a decision. Killing someone doesn't have to be murder. Sometimes it's not even a crime, as in self defense or a justifiable accident. Sometimes it's a lesser charge, based on what motivated the killing. The law isn't perfect, but it isn't that callous as to immediately convict someone of murder without a trial and without knowing all the details. It does not allow vigilantism, but it does take into account things like emotional state, mental wellness, past history of crime or violence, extreme duress, and any other factor. It could be that when we know the whole story the man seems more of a monster, or maybe we'll learn something else.

Either way, the law waits, at least ideally, until it has the full case before making a decision as to whether it's murder or something else.

[Coventina]

174. You make some excellent points. It is very true that at this point

the father is alleged to have murdered his son, but has not yet been found guilty of the crime (and may never be).

If we assume (which is dangerous, I certainly agree) that the facts as they have been presented to us in this story are correct, then it does appear as if the crime was premeditated. He was not at the scene at the time of the alleged molestation.

He found out because the boy confessed it to his mother, who then called his father. The father then came to the house with the gun (or got the gun at the house). He then ordered him to strip, forced him into the field, then kneel in front of him, and then shot him in the head. If that sequence of facts is correct, that sounds pretty darn premeditated. I don't know how it could be more premeditated, really.

Finding your son in the middle of molesting your daughter, grabbing a gun and shooting him could certainly fall under 2nd degree murder or even manslaughter or perhaps even less than that, depending on the circumstances.

I do firmly stand by my overall point, which is that the committing of one crime does not excuse the committing of another.

On edit: corrected the order of events per the OP

[jobycom]

177. On premeditation

He may have meant to scare the kid, or he may not have had any clear idea of what he was doing, which is often the case with emotional duress. He may not have intended to kill him at all. For all we know, he may not have even intended to kill him when he did. There's also an argument about whether premeditation is possible of the person isn't in their right mind.

Some other details in another story--the father has no history of any kind of violence or arrest. The kid was supposed to have been a great guy, too, with decent grades and a lot of friends. The mother claims she took the daughter to the hospital and that there was no sexual evidence, but the police say there is no record of that and there should be, and they are following up on it. Just some interesting details. It's a horrible story.

http://www.freep.com/article/20091119/NEWS02/911190378/Father-is-accused-of--killing-teen

[Coventina]

179. We can certainly agree that it is a horrible story.

I just can't imagine shooting a child of mine in the head no matter what he may or may not have done.

I can imagine being so disgusted that I would never want to see him again. But to shoot him in the head as he kneels in front of me begging for his life?

I don't think I could do that to anyone, not even Hitler. But then, I also admit to being a bleeding heart liberal.

[jobycom]

184. i don't think I could, either. But remember one of his children was the victim of the other.

So that's got to be a hard thing to bear. Especially if the father thinks it's likely to keep happening. (No evidence that's the case, just saying it could have been).

I described my brother somewhere upthread. Some people are evil and parents really don't know what to do. I don't know if this son was anything at all like that. I just know that when a man whom everyone thinks is a great parent and has never been in trouble before kills his own child, something out of the ordinary has happened. It makes me ask and try to understand "Why?" It may still be that the man is a monster. I just don't see anything yet which proves the story to me one way or the other. I've seen first hand what rush-to-judgement decisions do and how often they can be wrong, so I try to avoid them. Can't always, but try to. :)

[U4ikLefty]

206. So you believe your brother was a bad seed? n/t

[Gman2]

176. The guys EGO was involved. He was SR. JR. was a child rapist.

[cali]

185. The three year old was examined. She had not been raped.

[Bryn]

189. What a sad, sad story!

That sweet 15 yr old boy did not deserve to be executed like that by his own father in cold blood style in front of his mother. 3 yr old girl wasn't even raped. Boy confessed because he knew it was wrong so that alone should have been a good thing instead of being a pathological rapist with no regard of feelings or values. The father obviously loves his 3 yr old little girl and was feeling very protective of her, forgot that boy was his own son who wasn't even a rapist. Little girl was fine, wasn't hurt.

I am so sorry for the whole family, the mother especially. She did what she thought was right, but it turned into a nightmare that she may never wake up from. The father destroyed the whole family, his own life, his own son's.

:cry:

I am shocked by many replies by DUers in this thread. I don't think I want to be here anymore.

[Mixopterus]

193. I'm shocked at what people will justify

The summary execution of a teen that may or may not have inappropriately touched a three year old (not raped) is a good thing? That is twisted thinking, period.

What are people like that even doing on a progressive board?

[BlooInBloo]

197. It's just how Americans are.

[cali]

198. In all the years that I've posted on DU, no thread has ever shocked me and

saddened me, and yes, horrified me, like this one.

[Mixopterus]

199. Was reading about this THAT other site

Lots of the replies look pretty familiar.

I could definitely see some people in this thread and freeper types high-fiving one another over this execution style murder.

[Coventina]

211. Sadly, I've been shocked, saddened & horrified here more times

than I can count.

But really, IMHO, this story isn't about being "liberal" or "conservative", it's about whether you believe that the rule of law applies to all people, regardless of circumstances. In other words, no crime justifies another.

Of course, this story is especially horrific with all the circumstances, but really, for me, the underlying message is that who the people were shouldn't matter.

It is disheartening to me that so many here are willing to throw out the justice system and go back to the jungle. I have to believe that they simply haven't thought out the ramifications of their way of thinking.

[JVS]

200. Honor killing, American style.

[Iggo]

208. Nailed it.

:fistbump:

[dionysus]

210. that's just messed up on all levels.