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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:56 PM
Original message
6+ C
Wow, 6+ C degrees. Think of that.

4 C rise is a civilization ender. 6+ C rise is extinction.

I work at my job, people mill about and go through their day. Pushing the papers, planning the plans, taking the meetings, continuing to be the good worker bees and grinding the wheat.

It's so amazing. Kind of amusing really.

I have been on this kick lately of reading "end of the world" sci-fi novels. You know the type: comet hits the earth and kills everyone with the exception of a few hardy souls that survive to start all over again or the earth is invaded by gelatinous beings out to eat our hearts and use our supermarkets as breeding grounds. You get the idea.

The one common thread that all of these "end of the world" (must be spoken in an ominous voice) have in common is that there is a period of panic. Where society as we know it, completely breaks down and people go ape shit.

Lots and lots of car wrecks, always many things burning, the random gruesome death explained in intricate detail and the hapless expendable character(s) die from over urbanized stupidity.

We have heard two things this past week, that under ordinary sci-fi circumstances would cause wide range sci-fi panic, but alas, real life does not always imitate art.

IEA states that oil reserves have been grossly over blown and that the concept of not having enough for the worlds population is going to happen much much sooner than much much later (as the oil corps would like us to believe). Where is the panicking? Where are the accidents, fires and overflowing toilets?

Pfft. We say. We are a hardy bunch, right?

No. I just don't think people care. They can get their gas, drive across several states to get to work, have their daily latte' and be back at home before the late late late show. Life goes on, nothing interrupted.

Then...

A group of British scientists stated that we are going to see a 6+C rise in temp by the end of the century at our current pace of CO2 spew-age. Negative feedback and methane release will kick in causing biblical type circumstances. So where is the rioting? The wanton looting? The road warrior survivalists?

Pfft! Yet again!!. Here in the northern hemisphere we are entering into the winter season. It's still getting chilly, so what's the big deal, right?

What? Me worry? Followed by: about what? The holidays are coming up and the rug rats need that new what-the-hell-ever!!

It hasn't hit people on a personal level.

Sci-fi novels suffer from one thing regarding end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it type scenario's. They are too optimistic. They believe people really care. That in those worlds of fictional disasters, the various characters give a damn enough to riot, loot, cause accidents and start fires.

In the real world, people will riot when they believe they have been personally wronged. Okay, fine, pent up anger, whatever. But not a thing when presented that, this, the whole world as we know it, basically ends in less than 100 years.

I responded recently to someone in another post regarding what it will take for people to get pissed off enough to demand change. My answer was: it will take the price of gas to go to 5 bucks a gallon (at least) before people get off their collective asses. Because, the patriot act has certainly put a fine point on the fact that people, honestly, don't give a damn about their rights.

Freedom of speech has morphed into "I have a right to drive!!! And no pencil neck politician is going to take that away from me!!!"

Or my personal fav, rather than protest, the gun right loons would rather believe the talking heads who are supported by the gun lobbyist, who state, "Obama is going to take away your guns!!! buy a dozen now!!!" So like good little lemmings, off they go to fill their gun racks and ammo boxes. But who is the real winner here? It's not the gun owner, he's out umpteen hundred bucks. He maybe worked up into a paranoid lather but he's still out the money. It's the manufactures. Notice how they never really have sales? Oh I get the circulars, there are "sales", but they are nothing more than mark ups of already grossly marked up items or they are just moving out old stock. They don't need a sale in the atmosphere we currently live in. Fear is their sales tactic.

So while the tea baggers froth at the mouth over their roguish princess, the world burns. So while we on the left scream and yell about health care, the world burns.

Yes, I would love to have single payer or a public option, but I just have this concept of wanting to live on an earth that, well, is still around and around long enough to allows us to be concerned about that stuff or for it to even matter.

Lastly, I have predicted $100 a barrel oil by the first of the year. $150-$175 by the end of next year. I stand by that.

6C divided by 90 years is: (roughly) .06C rise per year. PER YEAR. So that's little over 1/2 of a degree rise every 10 years.
By 2050, we will be at +2C from current levels.

Move north, young man! Who will be left at the very top of the world in their little row boat in 100 years?

Not me. I'll be long dead, but oddly, I still care. Go figure?
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Before that, they'll come North
As the majority of the southern latitutes becomes uninhabitable, either by being under water or hotter than hell, people will migrate North.

The problem is, of course, that there's other countries there unprepared for a flood of newcomers, especially bearing firearms.

The other problem, of course, is going to be potable water. Armed frigates on the Great Lakes? What if Canada dams the Red River?
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, it's time we give others in the Animal Kingdom a turn at the helm.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. That will be the new most popular pet and from the looks of it will probably win blue ribbons for
Best of Show.






Although these guys may give it some competition.



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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Either that man is really smallish, or that's the biggest damn rodent I've ever seen.
Handsome beast, really.

:P
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gun owner. Voted for Obama. Gave to League of Conservation Voters.
If you are not an environmentalist, you're suicidal.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. You nailed it with this: "It hasn't hit people on a personal level." nt
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. I've often wondered what living on Venus would be like.
Downside: we'll all be dead

Upside: rivers of melted lead are neat-o
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. That prediction is BOGUS!
So far every thing that's been predicted by these so-called global warming experts has been happening much faster than they predicted. I suspect it will be more like +6C by 2050 that by 2100.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I think bogus is a little strong.
But, either way we are fucked. A little sooner or a little later, it ends up the same.

I think current models point to 6+ rise by the end of the century, however, if negative feed back kicks in earlier than expected, then your prediction maybe correct.

We just have to keep an eye on the permafrost in Siberia. When that goes, then, as they say, the game is over.

Methane burps are never pleasant.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Also the methane hydrates on the sea floor. When those burp it will warm up REAL fast. nt
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. This is true, however, they are locked in the ocean floor by immense pressure.
It would take a massive movement via an earthquake to get those to bubble in in the kind of mass to make it a climate changer.

The siberian melt would take of it plenty.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Dead men. Walking.
n/t
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Dead men driving is more like it.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The New Chrysler Oblivion!
It's the last car you'll *ever* drive...!
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Saboburns Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sorry, don't buy it
I don't think 6 degree C is extincton by a looooooooong shot.

Not. Even. Close.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. care to expand on that a bit?
according to some 4C is catastrophic

According to scientists, a 4C rise over pre-industrial levels could threaten the water supply of half the world's population, wipe out up to half of animal and plant species, and swamp low coasts.

A 4C average would mask more severe local impacts: the Arctic and western and southern Africa could experience warming up to 10C, the Met Office report warns.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/28/met-office-study-global-warming

what makes you think your scenario is more realistic? :shrug:
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Saboburns Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I'm not going to say we won't get our hair mussed.
But 50% is not extinction.

It could get ugly.

But extinction??

Not. Even. Close.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. well, for that 50% that go extinct it's extinction
perhaps not for mankind, but I think it will be a bit more drastic than 'getting our hair mussed'

YMMV of course, I'm an old lady, I'll be long gone before it's a bother
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Tell it to the Permians.
Oh wait ya can't.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. fine. check this out:
"They point to statistics that demonstrate that the extinction rates of animal species are much higher than had been predicted only a few years ago.

The worst affected - according to the scientists from the Diversitas group of biodiversity experts - are freshwater species like fish, frogs, turtles and crocodiles.

The scientists warn that these freshwater species are becoming extinct six times faster than their terrestrial and marine cousins.
"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8301858.stm

that's just a taste. I read an article a couple of weeks ago that by 2050 we will have lost 50% of all species that have ever existed to extinction and that most of them were lost within the last 150 years. If I find the article tonight, i will post it.

No, they are not talking about our extinction but how long will we survive if they keep dying?
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. thank you for posting this
I couldn't agree with you more. It's funny - you're the first person on DU that I've seen posting what I think. The bullcrap that we do and worry about everyday won't mean shit sooner than most think.

I do think that our governments know about this but aren't doing much because it might scare the masses. Either that or they just don't believe and/or care about it.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. FUCK! We're DOOMED! DOOMED! DOOOOOMED!
Wait. I mean, the oil is going to run out AND we're gonna have 6+ Degrees celsius from fossil fuels? Won't the first, at least, mitigate the second?

Eh, whatever. You're convinced the world is irredeemably fucked, yet also pissed that folks continue to go about their business. What would you have them do?

Personally, I wouldn't count the human race, and our ingenuity & problem-solving skills out- not yet, not by a long shot- but that's just me... and you're fully welcome to think I'm a pollyannaish idiot. If I'm wrong, it won't make much difference, anyway, will it?


In the meantime, in the spirit of your thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3CmXGKXOmk

Enjoy.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. Though, given your message, you may not care, you are a talented writer mr. Javaman. nt
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. +1
indeed.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. You're a great writer, Javaman
I'm afraid that you may also be a very good prognosticator as well...
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