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Sebass1271 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 02:40 PM
Original message
An exchange of views from an ex Obama supporter
(voted for Obama) who now thinks he is a failure. He sent me the video below telling me how sorry he was he voted and suckered into voting for such "salesman", he called Obama, a black version of bush. he was waiting for obama to repeal bush's unconstitutional policiesk, end both wars and stop stuffing wall street's pockets with taxpayer money. He accused him of not having a glimpse of courage or leadership. It's just business as usual as he has shown himself to be little more than a puppet for the financial tyrants on Wall St.

He then, went to want to include me in his disappoinetment, telling me how can't i be disappointed? I replied to him, i defended and explian the mountain of shit P. Obama found once in office. I tried to bring senses back to this guy that without him as president, we will be in major shit and worse!.

so, this is what he replied to me after my e-mail:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

oh c'mon, Obama's been a media darling since day one. His halo is only now starting to wear off because of his lousy approval rating and the crap job he's been doing...
Sure, he can change course and start doing right by the American people, but I don't expect he will. It pisses me off when people say you have to have HOPE, as if that's a real policy or some tangible kind of plan.


All he did with his stimulus is to reappropriate obscene amounts of taxpayer money try to stimulate more consumer spending to get Americans more into debt and improve bottom-line GDP. Cash for clunkers was a bone he tossed to the automobile industry. If you look at the numbers, auto sales have collapsed after that little government buzz wore off. The home tax credit was another government handout designed to reinflate a bursting housing bubble. All of that has done almost nothing to stop unemployment, which continues to rise drastically (it's now at about 17.5% even though the gov't says it's only 10.2%)


Obama is doing just what every other politician has been doing for the last 20 years-- being a politician. That is, buying time... and kicking the can down the road so that the tough decision has to be made by someone else and so that they won't have to feel the political backlash.
What he's really succeeded in doing is covering Wall Street's failed bets by insuring their losses. So the government gives these big banks billions and what do the banks do? Do they proceed with sound lending after having learned their lesson? Not at all... they are taking that money and buying Treasuries and foreign exchange reserves to try to make the best return possible. They know that it's too risky to lend it out even to credit-worthy borrowers. Banks are playing the equities markets with taxpayer money. So essentially, they're clouding the markets and confusing real investors as to where the capital is flowing. Look at Goldman Sachs and the others. Last year they were all hanging on by a thread and needed a lifeline from the government. And now, a year later they are having record profits and the huge bonuses keep flowing. I mean, think about it. What business can turn around from almost going bankrupt one year to having the best year on record the next? It can only be a criminal one.

They've resorted to flooding the stock market with 'liquidity' and staging an impressive, but artificial rally since March based on flash trading. That means most of the buying is being done by computer algorithms and not actual people. So the common dimwit sees that the DOW is up and figures the economy is getting better, but closer examination of key economic indicators tells a completely different story. Real trade and production have collapsed and the only jobs being created are non-productive government jobs and more jobs in the FIRE sector, most of which are more of a drain on the US Treasury than anything else. (But they do help prop up jobs numbers a tick)

Unfortunately, the recession is the necessary medicine for all the years of excess we've had ... housing bubble, internet bubble, commodities bubble. The economy needs to contract naturally and come down from these hyper-induced levels. It would be unpleasant because standards of living would surely decline, but we would get through it after a few years and be able to bounce back. But the US has turned into this fat, dumb kid with A.D.D. on ritolin with this mentality of 'bigger is better' ..and exponential growth is the only way to have a viable economy. That is how all of the great empires in history have fallen --Overconsumption of resources, plain and simple. We are already experiencing depression-level figures and the longer we paper it over, the deeper it will be.

In the long run, this is an unsustainable course. But unfortunately, the people running the show (Bernanke, Geithner, Summers ) are taking their cues straight from the Keynesian economics playbook... that is pile on more debt and inflate the currency.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the ugly side to the nice stock market rally we've been having in the last 8 months is a 12% depreciation in the value of the dollar. Good if you are a nation with an enormous debt because the dollars that you owe in the future are cheaper. Not so good if dollars are what you buy your groceries and pay your rent with.

A final note: I think getting caught up with Democrat this or Republican that is really the wrong battle to be fighting right now. The most important thing right now is our financial situation. Our sovereignty depends on us getting our shit together. The media uses this kind of political posturing to get us to debate with each other about who's right and effectively distracting us from the fact that our country is being looted from the inside.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


his e-mail is too much for me to respond to. He has a lot of information there that i feel i am not well informed or even qualified (like most of Duers) to reply to him. What should i do with this? Should i ignored this e-mail? if I do, I feel i would let his opinion stand and pretty much accept what he is saying, Obama hans' tdone shit good for the country.


Here is the first video he sent me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0&feature=player_embedded


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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd call him a liar...
and a McCain voter, and a worthless piece of shit.
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Sebass1271 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. no, he really did voted for Obama, he helped me canvassed
durign the campaign. I think is he is just following too much the media although he is complaining about it and how dishonest it is. how can i reply to him to all the shit he just said? he is making it seem like if all that mountain of bullshit he said it's Obama's fault. I think he was one of those delisional voters who thought obama was coming down as a God to save us from the devil. I supported President Obama and still do, but my support for him was not blind. I knew he the clucksterfuck mess he would find and how difficult for him it was going to be.

How come some supporters of his, can't see the reality of it?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yeah.
I'm still not buying it.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Chances are slim that he voted for Obama.
He thinks that pretending to change his mind gives him extra credibility.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sounds like a closet-PUMA to me!
Did she mention anything about a Kenyan Birth Certificate?

pnorman
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Don't call him names!
Like the other posters to this thread have done. Do the research, if you look for counters to his e-mail you should be able to find them.

Don't always depend on others to do your research for you.
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Ineeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Maybe you could ask him
what specific remedies he would recommend to address the massive problems that this president inherited. They would have to not be signing statements, but Constitutionally allowed remedies that the obstructionist repugs and blue dogs couldn't roadblock. Where was your friend when the problems were being created (mostly) by B*sh, including TARP? Was he complaining then?
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Send him this link to Frank Schaeffer on Rachel Maddow's show and ask him what he thinks
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 03:16 PM by Hekate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x403386

I'd like to know, just out of curiosity.

Hekate

edited for errant capital letter
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. So when he voted for Obama he thought he voted for the Miracle Worker? If he believes his own rant,
then what the hell did he think Obama was going to do to overthrow the corporations that run the show?
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. So he wants to go back to republicans tax cuts for the rich, more corporate deregulation, no health
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 04:43 PM by GreenTea
care for over 50 million people, the continued busting of unions, privatization of everything for corporate profits, more outsourcing of jobs to help corporations profit even further, more wars (Iran) for corporate profits, corporate heads in charge of EVERY federal agency...he wants to go back to corporate fascism....

After eight years of Bush and six years of total republican control of both houses in congress...and this is what your friend wants? He sounds like a bit of a racist as well and wants to go back voting republican.

A "black Bush" NOT calling Obama a Democratic version of Bush - as would be described if that's indeed was his point, but instead describing the "white Bush" & Obama as having the same policies, which wouldn't be said by anyone who is NOT racist.

Obama has been in office only ten months - January 20th 2010 will be one year in office.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. I believe the guy has doubts
because we have yet to see meaningful regulation on the financial services industry. Also, cheerleaders for deregulation, like Geithner and Summers, appear to be guiding the Presidents hand. Although I remain a President Obama supporter, I am none too happy about these things, either.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. He is correct on a few things, incorrect in others, and half correct on somethings
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 04:54 PM by AllentownJake
Geithner, Summers, and Bernake are inflating the value of the currency. The Financial Reforms that should have had happened after the bailouts have not happened yet, the banks are doing what he said in the stock market. Maybe tell him to wait to see what the new regulations are next year.

The GM bailout was done correctly and the firm will be returning to profitability hopefully sometime in 2011. Also the E suite was cleaned out...might be good to mention, but it might focus on how that was not done in the banking sector.

The stimulus bill was largely a bailout for the states. He is right on cash for clunkers, but primarily the stimulus bill was to help the states through this crisis. If there is no strong recovery, the states are going to be dealing with their 2009 problems in 2011.

If you are looking for a positive thing to talk about, I would talk about the government programs like extending food stamps and unemployment that have prevented people from going homeless or hungry during the period of high unemployment.

On the recession he is right it is medicine, but I'd focus on the stimulus projects that are investments.

Other than that, his email economically is pretty correct.

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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. yeah, he's all over the place...
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. There are things he is correct about
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 05:15 PM by AllentownJake
Denying them makes one lose all credibility. I'm considered to be an "Obama hater" by some on this site, but in reality, I think the President made the wrong assumption about the recession and grabbed the guys from the Clinton Administration to fix it. Let us be frank, the President is a lawyer not an economist and other than Paul Volker, a lot of the people he has chosen aren't exactly traditional party thinkers (Summers, Geithner, and Bernake). They are very pro-wall street and focus most of their belief system that it is the primary driver for economic growth. I view Wall Street as a necessary evil. An organism than when controlled facilitates good investment and a place to store wealth and savings, when left to it's own devices turns into a flesh eating bacteria, devouring the body of the economic system for personal economic gain. When it is profitable to buy a moderately performing business that is profitable, chop up it's pieces, and sell the equipment overseas or outsource the labor, Wall Street will do it regardless of the effect on society.

This President's accomplishments or failures will end up mostly being judged on how he works to turn that organism back to a symbiotic organism and not a parasite. Health Care reform is important, but since a good portion of it is focused on employer based plans, with a deflation taking place in the labor market wages and earnings, benefits are sure to follow, with employees being asked to pay more and more for benefits simply because the employer can demand it. Government regulation on employers paying for such benefits will result in a decrease in salary or a less competitive employer market. You need to attack the problem of American Competiveness and that involves a serious look at an equal playing ground with our trade partners (who are also our creditors oy ve). Wall Street is going to demand the profits, executives are going to demand the pay, and rank and file employees are going to continue to suffer under the current system.


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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. To reiterate for the slow-Obama has been in office only 10 months-January 20th 2010 will be one year
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Actually
that email, for the most part is dealing with things he supposedly did while in office. Best to respond to it as such than use the only one year argument.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Uh, actually ten month's...
Edited on Wed Nov-18-09 05:56 PM by GreenTea
"Obama is doing just what every other politician has been doing for the last 20 years-- being a politician. That is, buying time... and kicking the can down the road so that the tough decision has to be made by someone else and so that they won't have to feel the political backlash".

Get real EVERYTHING this clown is basing his bullshit (as well as you) is on time and not how things will evolve nor policy Omaba was forced into by the past administration (through time)...Do you recall the deregulation, wars for profit, tax cuts for the rich, trillions of dollar deficits Obama was left with?

Is unemployment suppose to just go away in two years? A republican party sabotaging everything by just saying no, stalling and putting up roadblocks on everything possible from day one....

I'm hardly an Obama fan far, far, too moderate for my taste....

But to suggest time has no place in the "argument" policy and implementation, time has everything to do with it.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-18-09 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Are you looking to convince someone the President is doing a good job
or are you looking to be "right" in your eyes.

Let us assume this is a disaffected Obama supporter. I think taking the arguments one by one and dissecting them is a much better approach than by saying he's been in office for 10 months.

Are Geithner and Bernake devaluing the US dollar, yes they are. You should construct your argument over why it is a positive thing or a necessary evil.

Are the banks taking their bailout funds and using it to inflate the stock market and pay themselves bonuses and engaging in other reckless behavior, yes but you should focus your argument on reforms that are being proposed next year.

As for the GOP. The GOP can't block anything. The House votes on majority rule and 60 Senators avoid a filibuster. Does the President have the democrats he wants in the Senate, probably not. I'm pretty sure the President would be happy if about 5 democrats in the Senate would resign tomorrow and be replaced with less corrupt or people ideologically in his world view.


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