Rachel Maddow Points Out The Pray For Obama Psalms 109:8 - But...

[unapatriciated]

The merchandise is also written as Prayer For Obama Psalms 109:8

"Prayer For Obama" has a much more sinister context that "Pray For Obama"

These people are dangerous

[hlthe2b]

1. I agree...

[GMA]

2. That just makes me laugh.

I'm surrounded by conservatives and Mormons (I won't speak for any other religion), and they are the most harmless people around. Let's be grown ups here. Unless, of course, you were just being sarcastic. In that case--I'm smiling at the irony.

[EOTE]

3. What don't you understand about this?

These people are praying for Obama to die. That's pretty fucked up and that mindset is pretty fucking dangerous. I don't understand where you're coming from. Religious fundamentalists are very dangerous.

[GMA]

13. What can any normal person say to something like this?

What a sad way to live.

[bobbolink]

23. "Normal"? You've been studying push-polling, right?

People see through this with every denigrating comment you make.

[GMA]

27. See through to what?

The fact that I think it's dangerous and stupid to say the things being said in this thread about anyone--even someone I may vehemently disagree with, makes me the target of insult and insinuation? My definition of "normal" is based on my experience as a human being. My experience may be different from yours, but I'm finding out how intolerant people here on du can be--with each other, no less.

[bobbolink]

28. You need a new playbook,

Seeing through to the way you are framing things. Now you're saying we are doing dangerous and stupid things.....just what we said about the RW thugs. So, you've turned it back around to us, just like in the playbook.

Second, YOU being the "target of isult and insinuation"???? Really??? Isn't that a bit of a stretch? YOU started out right from your first reply being insulting and laughing at US. PLUS, the danger and insult are what we see happening to Obama, by those you consider as ALL being "harmless".

Yes, your turning things around, your playing victin after you began with the insults, this is being seen by people reading your words. It's all very clear.

[GMA]

30. Good points, all.

Thanks for the logic, even if we disagree.

[bobbolink]

31. It's fine to disagree. I do it all the time.

And, I won't disagree with you that DUers can be just as nasty as the RW.

The point is, we can disagree with civility, and beginning by laughing at others doesn't work well. We've been denigrated for over 30 years, and we're fed up with it.

Good evening....

[Bluenorthwest]

39. Yours was the first post on the thread

And your point was that the religion that spends millions to come after the basic human rights of their neighbors are 'harmless'. Utter bullshit.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[a la izquierda]

57. honey, you don't live in the...

bible belt. i do. you have no idea how brainwashed some people are. i teach the products of brainwashed parents, 18 and 19 year old college kids, who don't know which was is up. i had a student shout out during a movie yesterday, because hugo chavez was on the screen.

so, keep doubting...until you live here, you pretty much don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Debbie Prince]

35. Fundies suck!

I agree - Christian fundamentalists love to bash Muslim extremists, but they fail to notice the log sticking out of their own eye.

[EOTE]

50. Welcome to DU, Debbie.

Yes, fundamentalists of all stripes love to bash each other. The funny thing is they don't realize how much in common they all have.

[Debbie Prince]

54. Thank you!

Each fundamentalist group thinks it holds "The Truth," and therefore everyone else is in error. That makes all the difference in the world, as far as they are concerned. As far as I am concerned, they are all like blind men groping elephants.

[Debbie Prince]

66. Where is the outrage from Christian leaders? nt

[mimitabby]

4. sure, generally speaking

but you're not saying that you believe that none of these families have messed up family members with dangerous tendencies.
It only takes one to assassinate a president.

[GMA]

5. I'm saying these people don't want our President to die.

That there might be someone out there who's messed up enough to try to kill the President is certainly is a possibility. That any real live grownup who actually associates with a broad cross section of people would think that this bumper sticker means death is just living in another universe, and it's insulting to honest, decent people everywhere, whatever their religion or politics. I thought du was about an honest exchange of ideas, and I totally disagree with yours. Simple as that.

[Debbie Prince]

36. Please reread the message

What part of "May his days be few" do you not understand?

[MattBaggins]

47. So what do you think psalm 109 is about?

Please interpret it for us.

[EOTE]

52. May your days be few and another take your place.

Let your children be fatherless and your wife a widow.

You must understand, I say these things in the nicest way possible, but I mean them none-the-less. Just little ol' me being harmless.

[Debbie Prince]

53. Have you read this verse in context?

The verse immediately following says, "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow." Does that clear it up for you?

[Atticus]

61. "Honest, decent" people don't display this bumper sticker, period.

If you believe otherwise, you probably should consider relocating your head. All that methane is seriously messing up your thought process.

[GMA]

6. I'm saying these people don't want our President to die.

That there might be someone out there who's messed up enough to try to kill the President is certainly is a possibility. That any real live grownup, who actually associates with a broad cross section of people, would think that this bumper sticker means death is just living in another universe, and it's insulting to honest, decent people everywhere, whatever their religion or politics. I thought du was about an honest exchange of ideas, and I totally disagree with yours. Simple as that.

[gratuitous]

15. My mind reader's license expired

So I can't say that I know what goes on inside someone's heart or head concerning President Obama. Perhaps they don't wish to take a personal hand in the early demise of the President, but there is certainly an ominous shadow being cast here, particularly considering the totality of sentiment expressed by frustrated right wing types who have seen their cherished beliefs take such a beating in the last eight years of reality: President Bush's swaggering foreign policy which turned out to be such a bust; torture that didn't pay off like it does on the TV shows; tax cuts for the overrich not ushering in a new Golden Age of Prosperity; termination of government oversight and regulation resulting in economic catastrophe; emergency legislation that doesn't bring a brain-dead comatose patient back to full, vibrant life.

These are people who don't impress me as being real stable in the first place. This new fad doesn't augur well for a group that trusts so heavily in the power of violence to redeem a situation.

[GMA]

19. Your first sentence is my point exactly.

I can't name a single professional or personal friend who would be anything less than horrified at the thought even wishing for the President's demise, and my circle hits a broad spectrum of political and personal beliefs.

[gratuitous]

24. It appears you draw a different conclusion

But with the nitwits walking around with their nooses and rifles and other paraphernalia, I'm not quite so sanguine about the absolute statement that none of the folks currently spouting this nonsense won't become persuaded that they're meant to become God's agent on earth and fulfill their own twisted interpretation of an out-of-context Bible verse.

[laughingliberal]

40. Some excerpts from Rachel's show where she discusses this with

former evangelist, Frank Schaeffer:

MADDOW: "And then there's this, a Biblical quote making the rounds in anti-Obama circles, as reported this week in The Christian Science Monitor: Pray For President Obama - Psalm 109 Verse 8. What's Psalm 109:8? Well, it reads 'Let His Days Be Few, And Let Another Take His Office.' Let his days be few. Uh, it's followed immediately by another verse: 'Let His Children Be Fatherless, And His Wife A Widow.'

And don't forget, that sentiment is now being merchandized on bumper stickers, on mouse pads, on teddy bears, on aprons, framed tiles - those are nice - keepsake boxes, T-shirts. Let his days be few, ha, ha, on a teddy bear. Is anybody else creeped out by this?

Joining us now is Frank Schaeffer, whose father Francis Schaeffer helped shape the evangelical movement in the United States. Mr. Schaeffer grew up in the religious far-right. He's the author of 'Patience With God: Faith For People Who Don't Like Religion Or Atheism." Mr. Schaeffer, thanks very much for coming back on the show."

SCHAEFFER: "Thanks for having me on."

MADDOW: "'Let his days be few and let another take his office. Let his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.' This is such strong language in secular terms about President Obama. Can you tell me if this means something less threatening to people hearing this in a Biblical context?"

SCHAEFFER: "No, actually it means something more threatening.


http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Hissyspit/7303

Anyone denying the truth of what we are discussing here: the marketing of items encouraging people to pray for Obama's "days to be few...," and his "children be fathterless, may his wife be a widow," either was not aware of the contents of the psalm referred to or is being deliberately obtuse. These are the modern day equivalents of the KKK and John birchers who threatened our lives and bombed my father's car during the civil rights movement of the sixties. They claimed Christianity as their own, also. One memorable phone call from when I was 10: picked up the phone and a woman screeched in my ear, "I'm a Christian, I'm a good Christian and all you n***** lovers are going straight to hell." This is not new, just a new incarnation.

[bobbolink]

7. So, you're enjoying laughing at this, eh?

"Harmless"? You do know that throughout history, it is these "harmeless" people who have done a lot of killing, right?

Including, of course, the ultimate one.... Hitler. God-fearing person that he was.

"Gott Mit Uns"

Yup, harmless. :crazy:

[GMA]

8. So now you're comparing "these people"

to Hitler? No more laughing. If you're really serious, then I feel incredibly sorry for you. Get past your stereotypes and there are many more good people out there than you might think.

[HipChick]

9. I not worried about the good people..

all it takes is one effin idiot..

[kctim]

12. That doesn't excuse lumping the two together

as "these people" in order to suggest they are all like that. Especially for these weak political purposes.

[bobbolink]

14. Why did I know that would likely be your response?

I certainly don't need your sermons... if you paid any attention at all, you would NOTICE that I get a lot of flak from DUers for my stand on understanding where teabaggers are coming from..... listening to their anger, and understanding their real pain, and hanging in there because they can be the most powerful "converts" when they really get the true reason WHY they are angry. So you can now apologize for your (wrongful) assumption about my "stereotypes".

But claiming that all these people involved like this are "harmelss" is not only ridiculous, its downright dangerous. Just like Hitler was. He used the same reasoning, and was successful.

If you can't see that, then I feel sorry for YOU.

[GMA]

29. Guess we're at an impasse.

Sorry to have gotten so hot under the collar, but I do stand by my assertion that the notion that these people are violent and hate Obama personally is just wrong.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tigress DEM]

59. GMA, people who really are harmless wouldn't call for the death of an elected President.

The people in your area, are they parading around with this Bible verse?

I do know conservatives and Mormans who are fine people. I also know that there are many who do awful things and just cover them up very well. Let's not get the two confused.

ANY action that is calling for someone else's death and is being used as a rallying device is not only inciting a riot but potentially treason when the person whose death is being called for is the seated President.

Now many of us wished Cheney or *ush would all do us a favor and expire during office, AND we pursued legal means to remove them, but those even here who wanted them dead -- really wanted them dead for reasons dealing with their illegal and immoral actions during their 8 year reign of terror -- weren't what I would call harmless. Neither are those on the right.

It isn't about religion. It isn't about political affiliation. It's about mob mentallity and what can happen when people are trying to make someone else a sacrificial example. FORTUNATELY on DU people will assert reason and a majority of us really believe in peace and non-violence.

[unapatriciated]

65. I'm surrounded by conservatives in the bible belt and many do know the complete passage.

They take their prayers very seriously. It only takes one nut job to make those prayers a reality.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/10/holocaust-museum-shooting_n_213831.html

[lunatica]

10. What do you expect from

[GMA]

11. Did that advance an idea or argument somehow?

lol. Come on, people, convince me through something other than insults about why you think I'm wrong on this.

[REP]

16. Why bother convincing you? Your mind is made up

If you wish to disregard what your lying eyes see, so be it.

[lunatica]

20. I didn't know this thread was about you

I was responding to the OP but what do I know...

[GMA]

32. wasn't it? lol

[tabasco]

60. No, you are the one that needs to convince.

You're not doing a very good job.

Someone who prays to their god for someone else to die probably desires that outcome.

You have convinced no one to the contrary.

[Joanne98]

17. They're terrorists!

[GMA]

18. Still waiting for any

actual evidence that an entire swath of American people are "terrorists". But you're right, I doubt you can convince me. I think most people are generally good and decent, and have nothing in my life's experience to suggest otherwise.

[KittyWampus]

21. you seem to have amnesia. Remember Palin and her crowds? They ALWAYS stay half a degree away

from outright calling Obama himself a terrorist, or saying "kill him".

But the pundits and thinkers on the Right know damned full well how to incite people.

[GMA]

26. Really? Times, dates, and explicit remarks would be helpful.

[Debbie Prince]

37. Maybe this will help?

Please read the following article and watch the accompanying videos:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/mccain-does-nothing-as-cr_n_132366.html

[cark]

41. How many people proclaimed wanting to kill GWB?

It cuts both ways - and is more of political statement than anyone actually wanting him dead IMO. This is silly and a waste of time.

Lumping all Christians together is like lumping all muslims together with the Hassan guy or OBL - it is wrong.

[devilgrrl]

43. So, "How many people proclaimed wanting to kill GWB?" Got links to back that up with?

:popcorn:

[cark]

44. Short Memory?

This is nothing new. I'm sure people were calling for Carter and Reagan to be killed as well.

Google Kill Bush Signs
http://images.google.com/images?q=kill%20bush%20signs&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

[spiritual_gunfighter]

45. They did yell out "kill him" videotape doesnt lie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw3o3y77MaA

[MattBaggins]

48. Are you intentionally being stupid?

What wide swath are people talking about? We are talking about folks that think a prayer asking for someone to die and for their children to be cursed as well. Do you think that these are good people?

[Atticus]

63. That last statement is such an obvious lie as to not really be worthy of actual discussion. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

22. people are actually praying this psalm for Obama?

I was saying the other day on another post about the psalm how I didn't understand how Christians could believe in Jesus for their salvation and then use the Old Testament to justify their anger and vengence, but I had no idea people were actually praying this psalm with Obama in mind. How can you believe in Jesus who teaches peace and forgiveness and then use the Old Testament to ask God to exact vengence on someone? These people have alot of hate inside them. Someone who has hate inside them does not know Jesus. These people are not Christians. If I had to guess how many true Christians(someone who actually follows the teachings of Jesus) there are in this world I would have to guess a very low number.

[Blue_In_AK]

25. These people ARE dangerous

which is why I say we can't just ignore Sarah Palin. These folks are her kind of people, and you will never, ever hear her admonish any of them for this kind of thing.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Debbie Prince]

34. Prayer against Obama

:wow: I think these people have reached a new low. I received this one in my inbox this morning, and I was actually kind of shocked by such a blatant expression of hatred against our president. I shouldn't have been, but I was.

[MidwestRick]

38. Got tinfoil?

:)

[HopeOverFear]

42. Got racism?

:eyes:

[MidwestRick]

46. ROFL

You have got to be kidding?

The difference between using pray and prayer is somehow some deep dark sinister racist plot against the president?

Really. I didn't watch the show but from the original post, it is severely lacking any backup for this conspiracy theory.

[HopeOverFear]

49. Take your bullshit back to Freeperville

[MidwestRick]

51. Ohhhhh, great comeback.

Disagree with some here and get labeled a freeper. Gotcha...Thanks, good to know.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. People disagree here all the time without getting called a freeper.

People think you're a freeper for entirely different reasons.

[Debbie Prince]

56. Romans 13:1-7

Oddly enough, I don't see Christians quoting this passage much these days.

[unapatriciated]

64. Nor do they quote Matthew 7:1-5