Is Spanking Of Children Appropriate?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

[melm00se]

1. it depends upon the transgression n/t

[ixion]

3. then your answer would be yes

because there would be some transgression worthy of spanking.

[brendan120678]

2. When the situation warrants it, it is appropriate. (nt)

[cali]

4. No. There are better ways to discipline kids than hitting them and

no matter how you try and justify it, it's hitting.

[ixion]

5. this whole "no spanking" thing is inappropriate

I see so many rude kids running around stores and restaurants these days, and their parents do nothing about it. These rude children grow up to be rude adults.

I think teaching children to behave politely in society is important, and spanking is a part of that education, ultimately, because children will always push boundaries.

[DrDan]

6. I don't think anyone would disagree with you about the rudeness of children these days

and that the parents are probably most responsible for that boorish behavior.

However, you seem to indicate that spanking is a necessary punishment. Not sure that follows.

Sure - teaching children to behave is important - and when they do not do so, don't you think there might be punishments other than hitting that might also work?

[cali]

8. I never spanked my kid. Not once. His manners were always good

by the age of 5 he could dine in any restaurant without causing any kind of fuss. As a young adult he has beautiful manners.

[ixion]

13. That is so rare these days...

very nice to see that some parents still care, and I'm glad it was able to be done without spanking. :)

I guess I advocate it only because I know there were things that I did as a child that merited a swat on the butt. Mind you, I'm not talking about being "taken to the woodshed" and being whipped with a belt. I remember that being fairly common, and I think it's destructive.

[cali]

19. It's not rare around these parts

Virtually all of the young people I know have good manners and their manners seem to be based on consideration for others.

And I'm not saying it was always easy not to swat or spank or that my kid was some angel.

[Horse with no Name]

35. There are ways to enforce boundaries without beating the shit out of someone half your size

It is called consistency.

[ixion]

41. and a swat on the butt is NOT "beating the shit" out of someone

please don't exaggerate this.

[immoderate]

59. You think those rude kids have never been spanked? I wouldn't bet on it.

:shrug:

--imm

[Shagbark Hickory]

7. I can't think of any instance it would be appropriate. If you must resort to spanking your kid, it

demonstrates what an inadequate parent you are.

[SidDithers]

14. Agreed. Well said....nt

Sid

[redqueen]

38. +1

[JohnnyLib2]

9. yes, with (my) narrow definition of "spanking":

For some children, one quick pop on the rear, maybe only once in childhood, registers.

Seems to me, we need to resist any one answer solution for millions of children; it simply isn't logical.

[Ava83]

24. I was

Just going to say that each child is different and as we are not the parents of said children we cannot say what is the best way to handle discipline in that family.

I personally do not spank...but I do discipline...I think the key with my girl was finding what effected itty bitty the most (bye bye toy, no tv or computer) and sticking to it.

I may have been too effective though because the child will come from school and tell me right away if she got in a bit of trouble and punish herself.

[pipi_k]

30. Now see, I think you had the totally right idea...

because too many people think the word "discipline" equals "punishment" when it doesn't. Or shouldn't.

That's why I said that parents who spank instead of using some form of discipline are lazy. Too much trouble for them to figure out what privilege, when taken away, will have the most effect on teaching.

Rewards and consequences.

I applaud your efforts and I don't think you overdid it. You merely raised a child who has an INNER guidance system...someone who will act properly even when nobody is watching. :)

[Ava83]

40. Thank you! I am trying

There are moments though I need to walk away but she seems to have been born with a reasonable gene(most of the time...her idea to live in the closet because she was mad at me did not work out)...I am lucky I get to parent her you know?

[JohnnyLib2]

47. For sure.

And inner guidance system hopefully is the goal.

[Bettie]

42. My 8 year old son is the same way

If he does something wrong, he spills his guts right away and suggests a punishment. His choice is usually more harsh than I would give too.

People tell me constantly how polite and kind my boys are.

Sadly, in my experience, it is the kids whose parents use spanking regularly who are the most ill-behaved.

[tularetom]

10. When I was a child I thought it was not

When I grew older and had children of my own I changed my mind and believed it was appropriate.

Then I had grandchildren, watched my kids spank them and changed my mind again. I thought it was inappropriate.

Now I have a great grandchild, and I think I finally understand. If spanking is used out of anger or frustration with the child's behavior it is highly inappropriate and probably ineffective as a disciplinary tool. On the other hand at a very early age it is probably useful in defining limits if used calmly and moderately. I wouldn't advocate spanking a kid older than 3 or 4.

[pipi_k]

11. Oh, spanking teaches kids, alright....

it teaches them this:

If you don't do what I want you to do, or act the way I want you to act, I will hit you.


Every time one of these debates comes up I ask spanking supporters why it's "appropriate" to spank kids when they misbehave, but they wouldn't even think of doing the same thing to an adult.

I never get an answer.

To me, that means the person doesn't want to admit that it's safer to hit someone smaller than they are. Or safer to hit someone who's not going to have their asses in court on charges of assault.


So, IMO, people who spank kids but wouldn't think of laying a finger on another adult in the same manner are cowards.

[AndyA]

16. What bullshit.

Parents spanking their children for bad behavior is very different than striking an adult. Parents have an obligation and a duty to teach their children. I would hope spanking a child comes as a last recourse, after all other punishments have failed. The punishments should progress, starting with telling the child that what they did is wrong, not acceptable, and they are not to do it again.

Next time, they get sent to their room, or grounded, or banned from watching TV, playing video games, listening to music, whatever.

Too many children today aren't taught how to act when around others, which explains their poor behavior in restaurants, movie threatres, stores, and other places where they bother or disrupt others. Apparently sparing the punishment doesn't work so well.

One of the lessons my father taught me and my brother, one that has remained with us both to this day, was when we got caught toilet papering our neighbor's yard. Not only did we have to clean it up right there on the spot, but we were told that we were going to get spanked. My father put ten pieces of paper in a bowl, and told us that each had a number from 1-10 on it. Whatever we drew would be the number of spankings we got.

My brother went first, and got the paper with the number 1 on it. He took his spanking and went to bed. I knew I would get the paper with 10 on it. After much resistance, I finally drew out a piece of paper and to my surprise, it also had a 1 on it. Dad said he must have made a mistake and put two 1's in the bowl. I took my lick and went to bed.

Years later, we were told that all the pieces of paper had 1 on them.

I wasn't spanked often as a kid, but I did know that I had to be quiet and not disturb others when I was in public, I didn't yell or cry out in restaurants, didn't run around stores bumping into people and knocking things over, or any of the other things I see kids doing today, without so much as a concerned look from their parents.

If you're going to have kids, TEACH THEM. If they don't behave and bother others, DEAL WITH IT or LEAVE THEM THE HELL AT HOME! Don't expect society to tolerate your child's poor behavior, and don't think that others will find them as cute as you do.

Parents have an obligation to teach their children, and if that means spanking them so be it, if that's all that works. By the time people reach adulthood, if they haven't been taught to act properly in society, it's too late. Their parents failed them.

[pipi_k]

26. If spanking really "taught" kids anything, it would only have to be done ONCE

right?


I mean, if spanking really worked.


Were you spanked more than once?

I was.

If the only thing that gets kids to "behave" is fear of being hit, then a parent isn't instilling the type of inner control that he will need later as a functioning adult. You know...a conscience.

This is the same idea behind many people's disdain for religion. Because if it's only FEAR that's making people behave, then what happens when nobody is looking?

As a child, unbeknownst to my parents, I did have a conscience. I didn't need to be hit in order to behave. All I needed was for them to spell out to me in clear terms exactly what they expected of me. They didn't. The rules seemed to change all the time.

Just someone looking at me crossly would bring me to tears. Along the way I developed a conscience, so even though I don't believe my "good works" on earth will get me into Heaven, I do try the best I can to be the best person I can even though my behavior isn't going to affect some future "afterlife".

Anyway, the argument that spanking "teaches" kids anything is a load of bullshit. Because like I said...if it were any more effective than grounding or taking away privileges, it would only have to be done ONCE.

Trouble is, too many parents are too goddamned lazy or weak to invest the time and gumption it takes for a long term plan of action...i.e. teaching kids by making them earn things instead of whacking them and then thinking they have "taught" the kid anything other than that it's OK to whack others when they don't do what we want them to do.

[Berry Cool]

29. You're making the same mistake someone above did.

You're assuming a false dilemma--either you discipline your children and teach them to behave via spanking, or you allow them to be little hellions who do whatever they want and make everyone miserable. No middle ground, eh?

Seems to me a lot of spanking advocates do that. They posit that the only alternative to spanking is NOT TEACHING YOUR KIDS TO BEHAVE AT ALL. The other thing they like to do is imply that all the other alternatives are weak, wimpy and stupid: you know, imply that all parents who don't spank are idiots watching little Jeffy destroy the restaurant while they sit in their chairs pleading helplessly: "No, no, little Jeffy, we don't do that, please stop." Or that all parents who don't spank are idiots obsessed with the idea of their children as "perfect little angels" who never do wrong--even when they're horribly behaved. It's yet another way to set up an easy straw man to knock down.

I do believe in telling the child that what they did is wrong, not acceptable, and they are not to do it again--and, most of all, making it very, very clear how disappointed you are and trying to get the child (if old enough) to think through why that is. I believe in grounding, banning privileges, etc. It's all part of teaching them that they are not the center of the universe and they need to learn how to behave in society.

Your father seems to have taught you that physical punishment was some kind of lottery (not really, but you didn't know that at the time). Well, that's certainly one way to instill fear in your children and get them to behave out of sheer fear of punishment (and the randomness of how much they will get) rather than out of the logic that dictates they are not alone in the world, that there are dangers they should stay away from, and that other people have feelings that don't deserve to be violated thoughtlessly. Obviously, very young children can't comprehend this, so when they misbehave in public they just need to be removed from the scene. But when they're older, they can be taught in other ways besides hitting that they need to behave, and why.

The parent who resorts to hitting them is revealing he/she is out of ideas, and is teaching the child the law of the jungle: People who are bigger and can hurt you physically can always make you do what they want you to. And, what's more, that's OKAY.

Edited to add: Before you ask me the NEXT question spanking advocates ALWAYS ask in order to trump you and win the argument--"But what would you do if your kid ran out into traffic?"--I will say: First, as a parent I'd better do what I can to make sure my kid CAN'T run out into traffic. Second, if there's a chance of my kid running out into traffic no matter what I do, I'm going to brief him or her very graphically on why NOT to, and it's not going to have anything to do with getting a spanking, it's going to have to do with what happens when cars hit kids. Third, if the kid does it anyway and gets hit, well then, it's a bit late to be punishing, no? Fourth, if the kid does it anyway and hasn't been hit yet, I'm going to grab the kid and pull 'er back (assuming I can) or yell "BACK HERE! RIGHT NOW!" at the top of my voice. Then we're going to have a talk about what I said, a reminder of what happens to kids who get hit by cars, and a non-physical punishment.

Obviously, none of this is going to work on a two-year-old. But then again, I really wouldn't allow my two-year-old to run around that close to traffic.

[Warpy]

12. It depends on the kid and the context

An open handed swat on the diaper the second time a toddler tries to run out into traffic is certainly appropriate, enough to get the kid's attention and convince him that Mom means business but not enough to cause a lot of pain and violate trust.

Older kids can be reasoned with and hitting them is inappropriate in most circumstances.

If they're on fire, beating the flames out is certainly a good idea.

[T Wolf]

15. The only "excuse" to hit your child is when YOU lose control. And then you damn well better

apologize to them immediately afterward and explain that adults, even parents, are not perfect and sometimes do stupid things.

It is important to teach them that lesson, as well as the one that says they are loved no matter what they do.

[RoadRage]

17. I take the same stance on spanking as I do on abortion..

I wouldn't do it personally - but it is not my place to tell anyone else what to do. If they think spanking their kids is the best way to raise their kids (and it's not constant beatings.. AKA Abuse), then that's their choice - and not for me to judge.

[Echo In Light]

18. I disagree w/it, and we've never spanked our daughter

[MyNameGoesHere]

20. If a grownup did some transgression

would they liked to be spanked? How about if you boss whacks your ass when you screw up? I cannot even believe this is a question.

[Echo In Light]

21. Exactly. And kudos on offering perspective w/ this basis for comparison

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Indeed

I'm utterly shocked that this poll isn't 96%-4% NO. I often got The Belt as a child, but I would never, ever lay a hand on my kids that way.

Many disgusting and despicable assholes at DU, surprisingly.

[Echo In Light]

23. Director John Waters refuses friendship, or will end one, if it's discovered they like sports

My wife and I take that approach re how other couples we know, or have known, who haven't any moral qualms w/swatting their children...or worse. A deal breaker or sorts, I guess you'd call it.

[pipi_k]

28. I already asked this question...

and got one really foolish reply as justification as to why adults don't hit people their own size, but will slap, swat, or spank a child.

And it makes about as much sense as people who think housetraining a puppy is so very different from potty training a kid. How many people think nothing of rubbing a puppy's nose in its own mess, but a kid who empties the contents of its diaper all over the living room doesn't get the same treatment. Their intellectual capacities are pretty much the same, yet somehow people expect their pets to be smarter than their kids. Or maybe it's just easier to rub a dog's nose in its own shit than to train it properly...

Seems like the shit (no pun intended) really does roll downhill. People do things to XXX group that they wouldn't even think of doing to YYY group.

[Soylent Brice]

25. ...

:popcorn:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. yeah. if you want to teach your kid that you get frustrated easily & cant handle things in an adult

fashion

[WI_DEM]

31. My guess is that there is a generational divide in some of the responses

younger people probably are less in favor of spanking while older folks are probably more supportive because it was more of a norm when they were growing up.

[pipi_k]

44. Could be...although...

I'm 57. It was the "norm" when I was growing up.

I don't believe in it now

[TexasObserver]

32. No. It's an adult's way of saying "I can't handle you except by hitting you."

It's the coward's way out. Always has been.

[CTyankee]

51. As a grandma, I have developed a "look" that seems to terrify my grandkids when they are

REALLY in trouble! I don't even have to say a word. The message is received and the trouble stops. I have used it with an out of control 13 year old granddaughter and 5 year old grandson with great results!

[TexasObserver]

55. Hitting refocuses the dispute and its resolution in a way that is negative.

Hitting says "I'm bigger than you, I have more physical power than you, and because of that I can make you submit to me." That sends a powerful message to a child, and it's a major factor in the pattern of toddlers and infants bullying other children or abusing their pets. When children are hit by their caregivers, they learn that behavior and repeat it immediately.

The message "I can hit you, but you can't hit others" never sells to kids, because they recognize that they can get away with bullying others, as they have been taught by their parents.

[CTyankee]

58. Of course. You are absolutely right.

I try to get across disapproval of inappropriate behavior that I will not put with. There are limits, but hitting is definitely NOT to be used. Ever.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Horse with no Name]

34. No. n/t

[MercutioATC]

36. Spanking just teaches kids that it's O.K. for big people to hit little people.

...and it works counter to non-physical resolutions to problems.

[Iggo]

37. I'm against the death penalty.

What? Wrong recurring poll? Sorry. My bad.

[dusmcj]

39. only if spanking of parents is appropriate /nt

[951-Riverside]

43. Of course The same goes for Women, Elderly and the Disabled, if they step outta line hit 'em

...oh right you're only supposed to strike defenseless children :eyes:

[pipi_k]

45. The really sad/scary thing is...

that some people WOULD hit women, the elderly, the disabled...for the same reason...

they're defenseless...

[Echo In Light]

52. Remember the story here a few weeks ago about the 2 teachers torturing an autistic child?

[aikoaiko]

46. Spanking works in the short term and sometimes that is what counts

But its not a good long-term solution to behavioral problems. Spanking as the normal everyday discipline can backfire.

[ZombieHorde]

48. Only if you are really really angry and need to release some rage. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. Intersting

-

[butterfly77]

50. Yes,Yes,Yes...

Definitely yes..only when absolutely necessary..

[WhollyHeretic]

53. Nope. Not at all. It's a pretty poor parent who has to resort to violence

to try and "teach" their children. I have never hit my son and he has always been very well behaved.

[Quantess]

54. Mostly no. But maybe in rare instances spanking is justified.

Overall, there are better ways of dealing with bratty children.

[snooper2]

56. I think somebody in the thread needs a spanking

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

57. Other. It depends on the definition of "spanking", by whom, etc. eom