Slavery, abortion and civil war

[nadinbrzezinski]

today when Shaeffer was talking about the American Taliban, and after listening to the KO show and how they want to change the status quo, I again had that look of a civil war going hot. No abortion and Slavery are not equivalent, but people are willing to die to prevent it. There are many cultural reasons for that, but here is the point. For 25 years in the 19th century people tried to keep a status quo regarding that particular institution. Kansas was one of the places where the Southern Compromise exploded. Folks we may be facing a similar moment... the Stupak-Pitts Amendment is an attempt to reel back the Hyde compromise, and this little bomb may still explode and the right is using the same religious language.

Just sharing some happy thoughts.

[Larkspur]

1. If the Right succeeds at abolishing abortion, they already have planned to re-ban

artificial birth control. It's not about saving the unborn. It's about punishing women for having sex.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And that is what could very well lead to a hot civil war

this is just one more of those factors... that have me going, we are going there. FAST.

Yeah happy thoughts indeed.

[Libertas1776]

3. Even if they ever

succeed in banning abortion again, it will simply go back under ground. Look at Brazil, abortion is illegal there and yet they have some of the highest abortion rates per capita in the world. The anti-choicers will never learn nor will they ever give a damn. Poor women will once again have to suffer in back alleys with coat hangers while the more affluent will have their own private, clean clinics that the law looks the other way on. Fucking idiots, I despise these people so much. It's their way or the highway, or more specifically a bomb in your clinic or a bullet in your head. :mad:

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I took care of patients in the back of my ambulance

three of them, in Mexico. They were septic, they died... from botched abortions.

I cannot describe the smell of death, but I wish I could show Stupack what that looks like. Him and the rest of his ilk...

[anonymous171]

5. One problem: There is no money in abortion. Or gay marriage.

Or any culture "war" issue for that matter. The only reason we had a war over slavery is because monied interests on one side were making a killing off of it and monied interests and labor on the other side wanted to them get rid of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. This is not about money, but control

social control.

Money is just one reason for the civil war...

And truth be told if we have a civil war go hot, abortion is but one of the many reasons.

[anonymous171]

7. Social Control for what purpose? No one wants to control women just for the hell of it.

Social control is only useful if you can make a profit off of it. We are already subjected to large amounts of it on a daily basis in the form of corporate advertisements and promotions. The economic elites care little for our culture war. To them culture is largely irrelevant, outside of its affect on profits of course. Same with ideology. We saw how google, a large capitalist corporation, bowed down to the Chinese communists' demands for them to censor their website. They don't care one bit about religion or politics when they are not directly related to business. So it follows that they wouldn't care about abortion either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Social control has one goal and one goal in mind

order, and this is not your social elites, but the extreme religious right wing that is losing their America. When they say that they mean it. THey are losing a white, male dominated, america... and this is damn scary. And people who get desperate enough and feel that they have no way to create their kind of change, in this case preserving traditional society. are willing to shot

Now white america also fears the other traditional bugaboo of US culture, miscegenation.

It is an ugly world but this is what this is about.

Oh and the true elites, I am willing to bet that the religious taliban is a threat to this social control as well. So the tensions are getting interesting.

[imdjh]

11. Saying that slavery was not a moral issue is rather like saying it wasn't really an issue.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. I did get what I think he meant

that it was very much economic as well... but it was very much a hot moral issue as well.

[imdjh]

13. I can't recall ever seeing numbers on the relative profits of slavery and sharecropping.

But I'm willing to bet that sharecropping was more profitable to the planters. It must have been a real shocker to the Pennsylvanians and the Ohioans to see that after the war the South was still undercutting their prices.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Read on the period of reconstruction

but you are correct.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. What makes a civil war is a small minority who feel opressed face a hopless...

situation and turn to violence.

Only a few people kill abortion doctors and blow up clinics, but a lot of people approve of what they do and protect the few who go active.

If a Senate bill passes, and the Stupak ammendment is lost in combing the bills, it will drive the culture warriors into a frenzy.

What will they do?

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. That is why I made a reference to the Kansas Little War

and why the signs that this is possible are there.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. You could also have made reference to Harpers Ferry.

John Brown's acts are not unlike the typical civil war we see around the world today.

[cali]

16. Drama. I mean melodrama. not one of you puffed up predictions has come to pass

this one won't either.