Assumptions about black men in Redneck World.....sigh

[Manifestor_of_Light]

Today my hubby and I went to a book club meeting at the local library. The town is little and we did not have a library until just a few years ago. A man bought the old Methodist Church when they moved and started a non profit. His mother, who is in her 80s, is the librarian.

A man who is a retired English prof led the group. He had passed out a New Yorker story and discussed it. Then he passed out a new story to read by John Grisham. There were a bunch of old ladies there.

If you have read my thread in the Science forum, we went to Stillwater to Oklahoma State to an alumni fundraiser dinner for the library last week. Husbo graduated from there in '69 with a BS in math/physics.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson, of NOVA fame, gave a very interesting talk about scientific literacy and many things. He has also written in his speech upon earning his Ph.D. that he was discouraged from going into science, because he was black, so he was told he should be a basketball player. However, when he discovered how fascinating math and physics were, he decided that was far more interesting than basketball. He has also written about being stopped by campus cops repeatedly when he was working late at the universities he went to (Harvard, Columbia, University of Texas at Austin), because they assumed he must be a mugger/rapist (his words, not mine). And that any of his accomplishments were attributed to someone else.

Sad-but-funny note: Hubby brought in his books by Neil deGrasse Tyson, and was talking about our trip, and showed the lady next to him, Mrs. Long, a picture of Dr. Tyson with a quote on it from him. Hubby added the quote to the picture in Photoshop and printed it. Please look at the picture before you read further.

You may see it here, on my blog: http://lavidacountry.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/saw-neil-degrasse-tyson-speak-in-stillwater/

Mrs. Long knew my grandmother (who died in 1985) so she must be about 112 years old. She saw the picture, and said, "Is he a football player?" and Ray said, "No he's an astrophysicist. You won't see football players on NOVA!!".

It occurred to us that since Ray wore his orange shirt with "Oklahoma State" on the front, and that was a picture of a black man, the woman must have concluded Oklahoma + Black man = J.C. Watts, former OU football player and idiot Republican former congressman from Oklahoma......!!!!!!

:wtf: :nuke: :wtf: :argh: :banghead: :grr:

:eyes: :wtf: :puke: :wow:

[Drunken Irishman]

1. I don't think that's a redneck thing.

We have a very small black population in Salt Lake (only 3%) and I've heard some so-called liberals wonder aloud if a tall black person at a restaurant or movie is a member of the Utah Jazz.

On a semi-level I get it because there are just so few blacks here that some people tend to just assume they're playing either for the Jazz or the Utes' football/basketball team.

It's stupid, obviously, but it's not just a redneck mentality.

[Ikonoklast]

2. I could see how she made that mistake, however.

I'd bet she's never watched NOVA, and Neil is a pretty big guy, well-put together.

She just has a very small frame of reference.

[KatyaR]

3. Yeah, 'cuz JC Watts is the only black guy in Oklahoma to ever wear a suit . . . .

This state makes me so tired. :banghead:

I didn't know Tyson was here--I'm an OSU grad myself (Class of 1979). I would have loved to have heard him--he really makes science enjoyable, especially for someone like me who was a music major and who didn't get a very good start with science and math in grade school, so I really hated it. Now I realize how much I missed.

Loved the photo, too--great quote.

[sandnsea]

4. You assumed that, she didn't

And the fact that you found the need to denigrate a 112 year old lady,

:puke:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

7. I don't know if she's 112 or not.

I know she's ancient.

And she did exactly what I thought she would do: Invite me to her church like I didn't know where it was. She said "This library used to be the Methodist Church". I said, "Yes, I KNOW. My FATHER'S FUNERAL was held here".

:grr:

And the only logical conclusion I could come to from the evidence was the conclusion I came to.

Now, if you have some other reason for why a little old lady would think that a black man wearing a suit, in an astronomical observatory, surrounded by models of planets, and telescopes, is a football player, I would like to know what it is.

[sandnsea]

11. She's an "ancient" old lady

No matter what she thought, her age and upbringing are an excuse for her. There's none for you. Taking offense at the ramblings of an old lady is just bizarre.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

15. I did not "take offense".

I said NOTHING to her at the time or after the meeting was over. I merely concluded it at the time she said it.

After the meeting was over she invited me to the Methodist church, and I said "Thank you" instead of going off on her like I wanted to. I was polite. Telling her I was not interested and getting mad would have accomplished nothing.

She wore a necklace with a big cross on it. She also had on a charm bracelet with a bunch of smaller silver crosses on it.

From that, I conclude that she must have a problem with vampires that we don't know about.

[REP]

20. Age is no excuse for rudeness, racism or any other bad behavior

Never has been; never will. If she's old enough to be ancient, she's old enough to know better.

[sandnsea]

24. Oh puhleeze

She might just as well have said the same thing if a big white guy were in a photograph, if a person wearing a college jersey showed the picture. She's an old lady, probably couldn't even see well.

The poster had issues with her otherwise, for reasons I don't get. The old lady had the audacity to tell her the current library used to be a church - OH MY GOD!!! The horror of telling her that.

I have no idea what crawled up her ass, but she was looking for a reason to be offended by this woman. I've never even met anybody over 100. Fascinating opportunity to learn was missed, as far as I can see.

[NoSheep]

12. Just wanted to let you know I get your point entirely.

[Kaleva]

5. I think you were looking for a racist where there wasn't one.

Big man + orange Oklahoma State shirt = football player. As I rarely watch Nova and had no idea who Dr. Tyson was, I probably would have made the same assumption upon seeing his picture as the elderly lady did.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

8. DId you see his picture?

Dr. Tyson was wearing a SUIT AND TIE, NOT an orange Oklahoma State shirt.

That's why I think she was confused. Hubby was wearing the orange OSU shirt.

[Kaleva]

10. Just posted an apology for my error.

[Kaleva]

9. Apologise for the error in my post

Read the OP again and it was your husband who was wearing the orange shirt. But still, I wouldn't read much into the elderly woman's comment.

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. I love Tyson's Nova stuff. Thanks for posting.

[StarfarerBill]

13. Neil DeGrasse Tyson...

...the Carl Sagan of the 21st Century. :7

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. Ignorance, Bigotry and Sterotypes

You can find 'em anywhere - in every circle. Seems to me that you are jumping to conclusions based on your own assumptions - assumptions based on your own views about folks you describe as "rednecks" and "ancient".

I don't watch NOVA. Nor do I want to. I haven't a clue who Neil DeGrasse Tyson is and I have no interest in astrophysics. I suspect there are lots of folks like that. Guess what? I'm not Republican. I tend to have rather liberal political views even by standards in the Democratic party. I'm not 112 years old and I live in a metropolitan area with a populaiton of over 1 million.

Me thinks either your mind reading skills are a little lacking or you have some biases of your own.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

16. This incident reinforced Dr. Tyson's statement about his ambitions.

If you had looked at the picture I directed you to and read the quote, it says:

It is remarkable what can be accomplished when you are surrounded by people who believe in you;

people whose expectations are not set by the short-sighted attitudes of society

--people to help to open doors of opportunity, not close them.


Which is a positive way of saying that Dr. Tyson ignored the people who thought he should be a jock, merely because he is black and large and was good at sports, and listened to the people who told him he could be an astrophysicist if he wanted to be.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

17. kick

[Taverner]

36. Kick again...

NDT is awesome!!!!!

And he's great at explaining Astrophysics to us non science folks!

[guitar man]

18. What's really offensive

Is for somebody from OSU to be mistaken for a $&"#% Sooner!

:rofl:

[Capn Sunshine]

19. Why doesn't Texas break off and float into the Gulf of Mexico?

Because OKLAHOMA SUCKS!

//endtexaschannel

[Behind the Aegis]

21. And the reason Oklahoma has so many tornadoes?

Because TEXAS REALLY BLOWS!

;)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. thank you for that bit of football humor....

to lighten up a thread where some folks think i got in the woman's face and said something. I said nothing to her.

[proteus_lives]

22. Calling a little old lady names.

Wow, you're impressive.

[TicketyBoo]

23. I'd rather have a little old lady

mistake a black astrophysicist for a basketball player than have a neighbor who thinks a great Halloween yard display includes a life-size dummy with black face and black hands chained together, hanging by the neck, lynched, with a big rope from a tree in his front yard.

Maybe you don't know redneck? (The cops wouldn't do anything about it.)

If it happens again next year, I'm going to turn him in for disturbing the peace, because it certainly disturbed MY peace.

I've been contemplating going over in the dark of night and slapping an Obama bumper sticker on his car, tee-hee.

[hfojvt]

25. it's kinda less insulting for her to assume he's a football player

than it is for you to call them rednecks.

it hardly seems to be worth all the seeming rage. Especially given the fact that, even in a suit, the man looks athletic. He appears to be about twice the size of Carl Sagan.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

27. Hey I live in redneck east texas. Very racist and Republican/Libertarian.

East Texas has lots of black people and is quite racist. Social life for most white folks is all about church. I do not go to their churches. I am not interested.


I did not say anything to this woman to her face.

I did not say anything to anybody at the meeting about it, either. I did nothing that was impolite. After the woman invited me to her church (which I KNEW she would do) I just said thank you instead of what I really thought.

Sure I will cut her lots of slack for what she said, because she is very old & not the sharpest crayon in the box. But she undoubtedly was raised to be a racist. She knew my grandparents (born in the 1890s), and they voted for George Wallace and I was horrified. They were polite to "nigras" to their faces but didn't accept them as friends.

Hubby and I independently realized what she seemed to be thinking, right after it happened....Oh, she thought that was J.C. Watts.

I talked to a woman the other day who went in the library and checked out "GOD IS NOT GREAT" by Christopher Hitchens. She said the woman who checked her out read the title loudly, like she was embarrassing the woman by telling others she was checking out a book by an atheist.


What should I describe these people as? What name would you call them? They are white, mostly uneducated, conservative mostly evangelical Protestant, vote Republican, wave flags, and often go to these tea party protests that have been in the news lately. They hate Obama with a passion, all of our politicians up thru the governor say that Texans don't want government take over of health care, but don't you dare get rid of their Medicare. They tolerate black people but sometimes will say racist things to me if they don't think I will object.


There were white people driving up and down the street in front of the house in pickups screaming "FUCK OBAMA!" and flipping their middle fingers at me last year when I had a big Obama sign in my yard before the election. I did not see more than one other Obama sign in town.

I was afraid someone might drive by and shoot at me or my house because of my Obama sign. The county went 2/3 for McCain.

Not everyone here is like that. The woman who is the head librarian is educated and values education. I have to watch what I say around people until I get to know them better. I've had a few angry ones confront me in stores.

What would you call them? I'd like to know.

[hfojvt]

31. Why do you need to label these people at all?

"She undoubtably was raised to be racist".

You don't know that. You assume that because of the color of her skin and where she lives. Your parent, apparently, was raised to be racist too, and perhaps you were as well. You can give yourself credit for getting past that upbringing, but can't believe it is possible for that woman. She guessed that one black guy is a football player and you score that as the moral equivalent of the n-word. What an awful thing it is to look at a person and immediately assume - "skilled athlete". Oh the horror.

And then look at those people. They are 'the Other'. Not like us. They actually goto church. Oh the horror.

Well, I take shop. My sisters goto church. My parents goto church.

You were afraid somebody would drive by and shoot you or your house, and yet, nobody did. Your neighbors are apparently voters and citizens and passionate about their politics, just like lots of other people. Just like me, a name I call myself.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

32. yep.

And they go to these tea bagger rallies, and scream about how they don't want government health care, but don't you DARE take away their Medicare and Social Security! And MY representatives, state rep, state senator, U.S. Congressman, U.S. Senators and Governor ALL think that way! They all think Obama is a dirty Socialist (Governor Perry said that) and that we are all going down the evil road to fascism and socialism.

I will call 'em like I see 'em. Most (not all of these people) are Republicans and hate Obama, as I said.

I don't mind them going to church as long as they stop bothering me about going to THEIR church.

I don't tell them about my beliefs and how wonderful they are.

:wtf:

[Coyote_Bandit]

28. Ummmm......

Welcome to my frickin ignore list. Whether you said anything at the time or not you were clearly offended. You jumped to conclusions based on your own frickin biases - which means that you had your own prejudgments of that woman. Something which makes me wonder if you are bigotted against old people and/or rural Americans. And, finally, you felt it necessary to actually NAME and identify the woman here while making racist allegations against her. That is commentary I find completely unnecessary to voluntarily entertain and will not tolerate.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

34. Maybe you've met her husband??? I have.

His name is Lazarus. Lazarus Long.

:rofl:

[Brewman_Jax]

29. All black guys are football players

or basketball players, don'tcha know! They just CAN'T be scientific professionals. :banghead:

[Doctor_J]

30. What a great quote. who wrote it for him?

:rofl:

I crack myself up.

Good story. These things take time, but will eventually be gone. And the problem of minorities in the sciences is one that still is a long way from being solved. Finding a setting in which a person can thrive in the hard sciences is difficult regardless of his/her demographic, and for minorities there are still not a lot of role models. It is changing, but slowly. FWIW, women have made great strides over the last 40 years, due in part to organizations like this. it will happen for other underrepresented groups too.

BTW the others' comment that you might be over-thinking this one could be correct. She sees Ray in a OSU jersey, is told that the Prof. is an old pal, and might well translate it to "old football buddy". Reasonable, IMO

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Manifestor_of_Light]

35. Yeah I live in a real sea of enlightenment and reason (SARCASM).

Looked up the sex offenders database online.

I got TWO sex offenders living directly across from me. Twin brothers.

:wow: :wtf: