Well, it's official, a 100% increase

[guitar man]

Got the numbers on my family health coverage for 2010 today. The premium shows a 100.66% increase over what I was paying in 2006. Premium doubled in just 3 years!! :grr:

Mr President, Congress, ARE YOU LISTENING??!!! GODDAMMIT DO SOMETHING, NOW!!!!!!!

:grr::grr::grr:

[Captain Hilts]

1. You're just not working hard enough. nt

[stray cat]

2. What are you paying now? My concern is it my fall into what congress calls affordable

[guitar man]

4. starting next year

it will be $514 a month. I make $33,700 a year

[dflprincess]

14. Possible good news

the House bill says a premium can't exceed 11% of your income. So ($33,700*11%)/12 would equal $308.92 a month as the amount you can afford. It could be less as the premium cap is calculated on adjusted gross so if that's lower than the $33,700 it could be a little better.

What we don't know is what you'd get for the that $309/month and how high a deductible you'd have to go with to get that price. The out of pocket for a family is suppose to be no more than $10,000 in the first year but uncovered expenses (dental/vision) and the premiums won't count toward that max out of pocket.

[guitar man]

38. yeah, that's better

if we actually get something worthwhile for it. I think my current policy is $7k max out of pocket per year, I'd have to look to be sure

[kath]

90. The problem is that with these plans the deductibles, co-pays, and other out-of-pocket costs are

likely to be QUITE high - the $300/month for premiums alone squeezes the budget of someone in that income range a LOT already. To add that they should have other healthcare costs on top of that makes it NOT AFFORDABLE.

You do know that in British Columbia, a family pays only approx. $108 per month for healthcare, and they have NO co-pays, NO deductibles, no 80-20% split on medical costs (100% is paid), and get prescriptions at heavily discounted prices.

[DUlover2909]

95. Don't forget that we have to subsidize their...

profits, advertising budgets, executives' salaries (and bonuses), and the rest of their vampiric bureaucracy. They charge us extra so we can't have retirement plans and they can. They're like a bunch of busy little squirrels packing up for the winter with nuts we go around and find for them. The same thing goes for the telecom assholes that collude and overbill for phone charges because they lobbied state reps to allow them to overcharge for phone service, which is pretty much a necessity for most people. Try getting by in today's society without a phone. The corporations are sucking us dry and leaving us nothing in our savings accounts even with two income households.

[bjobotts]

99. Senators can "expand" Medicare to cover all through reconciliation with 51 votes

[bjobotts]

101. Since it is a budgetary issue they CAN do it that way.They just need the balls to do it

[Warren Stupidity]

157. yeah but the lines for a nose job are HUGH!

canadians hate their healthcare system but because canada is a socialist dictatorship they cannot unburden themselves of it as they are all stuck in long lines waiting for breast implant surgery when they could be voting the socialist dictators out.

[Fedja]

122. Bleh

All that'll do is make more and more needed services exempt from the basic package and labeled special services.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

143. I think the UK pays only 6% of salary for health and social security (the richer pay more)

in the US 13% for everyone and the rich don't pay more?

Is this true?

[SharonAnn]

183. Here, the rich pay less. Check the maximum slary that has FDIC withholding.

[stray cat]

43. Wow - that really is painful! You are likely to do much better with a reformed plan

[guitar man]

46. I really hope so

and I hope they get it done really soon, time is running out for me and my family :(

[truedelphi]

49. You are paying about ten percent of your income and at that rate

I am not sure you will find much relief from anything that Congress does.

Your premiums might be less under the House Bill of course, but then there would be deductibles. And those can be at least $ 1,500. Plus out of pocket co-pays etc.

One of the biggest problems that taxpayers face is that of the fact that those in office have no comprehension of what the money the lower incomed possess is all about. I remember Hillary on C Span way back in 1993 chortling how affordable her plan was - why, the guy out there supporting a wife and two kids on his $ 24K salary would ONLY pay four thousand a year.

I mean to them, if they cannot afford something, they just cancel that second trip to Europe. And they assume that we can or will do the same.

[SoCalDem]

56. or make an extra speech..or write another book..

the rich have NO concept of "paycheck to almost-paycheck" living.

Millions of people live that way, and fall behind a little more every month, until some emergency sinks them..

It can be a $500 car repair, or a kid's illness, or something as minute as a regularly scheduled rent increase..

If you cannot afford health care now, and some bureaucrat decides that you "can afford" it, where will the actual money for it come from?

[geek tragedy]

59. The OP is actually going to pay 20% under the current plan.

Under the House bill, they'd pay a max of 11%.

[truedelphi]

103. Well, doing the math

500 X 12 = 6,000. Divide the 33,7000 into that and you get eleven percent.

That is eleven percent of his 33,7000 salary.

So he is already paying eleven percent. He won't pay more under the new version of eleven percent max required by Congress.

[geek tragedy]

111. Your math is simply wrong. Way wrong.

12 * 514=$6168

6168/33700=18.3%

[onlyadream]

114. Correct!

A+ in math today!

[geek tragedy]

117. Maybe I'll be smarter than a 5th Grader by the end of the day. nt

[truedelphi]

178. My bad.

Grey matter no longer capable of watching weekly program "The Good Wife" and calculating at the same time.

[guitar man]

181. lol

I had to go to the calculator myself :rofl:

[DesertFlower]

93. that's really high for your salary.

[guitar man]

136. yes it is

The problem with our plan is that no matter how many or how few people are on my insurance, the premium is the same, so it wouldn't matter if I had just a spouse or a spouse and 18 kids, same rate, so I'm paying for everybody in the company that has a whole house full of kids too.

The saddest part of the whole thing is, my daughter qualifies for Sooner Care (SChips) which I am currently using as a supplement for her. It would be nice if I could drop her off my policy and have the rate go down for just insuring my wife and I but, no rate change unless I drop both of them and go to a single plan

it's absoultely maddening :grr:

[OnlinePoker]

138. Indentured Servitude

Is that $33.7 k your family's combined salary? I can't imagine paying 20% of my income (I'm assuming pretax?) for one expense other than housing. You make the money just to turn it over to an insurance company. This sounds like indentured servitude, except you are never freed from your bond. Are you allowed to claim any of that on taxes as a medical expense? I don't know how the U.S. tax system works regarding insurance premiums. Do they classify the money you receive in insurance payouts as income?

For comparison, I pay $648 a year for my wife's medical here in BC. I myself am covered by my employer.

[1monster]

177. I would be grateful for a premium that small. I was paying $536 for four people when

the insurance company pulled out of the state. The replacement policy I was offered was $1,369 per month for three people with a deductible that was $500 (from $2500 to $3000) more per year per person.

I'm uninsured now...

[Skittles]

3. why do you hate America, guitar man?

get two more jobs - it's the American way :(

[guitar man]

5. then I'll have 5 jobs

:(

[Skittles]

8. and finding even ONE in this economy is a feat in itself

I commiserate my sweet

[safeinOhio]

20. I know a guy that did a bank job.

He now has free medical.

[druidity33]

81. Dental too!

depending on the facility...

;)

[gmoney]

89. "that's uniquely American..." (n/t)

[David Zephyr]

6. Grrrr....

100% is simply criminal.

[jgraz]

7. Oh come on. They ARE doing something

They're making sure our premiums will continue to skyrocket for at least another four years.

:banghead:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. Pull harder on the bootstraps.

:think:

[Blue_In_AK]

10. Our insurance premium went from $300 a month to $800

a month between 2004 and now. This comes out of my husband's fixed pension, basically a 15% paycut, if my math is right. $800 a month for two healthy adults who never need medical care...it doesn't make sense.

[RKP5637]

36. This whole country doesn't make sense to me. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

64. +1

:thumbsup:

[RagAss]

76. Stop thinking of it as a country......it's not a country...it's a rape in progress !

[Mari333]

135. +2!

[RKP5637]

148. Well Said!!!!!!!! n/t

[Hissyspit]

104. +1

[tblue]

11. They're jacking up the price so that when there is reform (?!), they can cut premiums

and still make the same profits. Evil evil evil evil evil! I'm sorry. This is so WRONG!

[bjobotts]

98. These profiteers are ruthless.They won't cut anything.Eliminate CEOs salaries and costs will go down

[Paper Roses]

113. Same with current drug prices. Jack them up now and then when

any reform (ahem) takes place, they won't feel the pinch.

Disgusting.

[newportdadde]

12. From 2000 to 2010 -> almost 600 % percent increase, also next year my deductible goes up 40%.

[guitar man]

137. that's criminal

just.....criminal :(

[quiet.american]

13. Why are you yelling at the Prez & Congress? They ARE doing something.

The House bill contains passages that would make it illegal for insurance companies to do this.

Harry Reid has said if Republicans et al. want to play games with delaying Senate passage of healthcare reform, they will keep the Senate in session 24/7 if that's the way they want it, but healthcare reform will be passed.

Of course the President and Congress have been listening.

edited: I meant Senate Leader Harry Reid, not Steny Hoyer

[dionysus]

15. if a tree falls in the woods, it's obama's fault.

:shrug:

[quiet.american]

21. Thanks for the chuckle. nt

:hi:

[dflprincess]

16. But will it make illegal retroactively or, like credit card "reform"

with the insurance companies have time to jack up their rates before anything starts "keeping them honest".

I will never understand Obama and Congress insisting these crooks be protected and embedded even further into the system.

[quiet.american]

18. There are caps on premiums, and out-of-pocket, per year --

Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if it's retroactive, but I know there's enough ways the bill goes at it that should get the job done of getting the OP some relief from this situation.

[dflprincess]

24. The caps on both premiums and max out of pockets

are 11% of income for premiums plus out of pockets (not just deductibles) of $5K for singles, $10K for families, plus anything not covered. These caps may go up annually.

The caps on premiums and out of pockets (cutely called "cost sharing" in the bill) are high enough that there will be a lot of people who are paying for "coverage" but still won't be able to afford to access care. We may see the number of uninsured decrease but the number of underinsured will continue to increase and, as we learned from "Sicko" being underinsured isn't a whole lot better than being uninsured.

And no, it won't be retroactive. We will not see the government force their pals in the insurance business to roll back their premiums. We'll just continue to pay more for less - and how that is different from the "system" we have now is something I don't see.

[quiet.american]

29. Fine. If the bill doesn't work for you, fine. There are some it will help.

And yes, there is a sliding scale in which premiums go up annually, but you left out affordability credits entirely.

[dflprincess]

51. Single people making more than $43,000 and a family of 4 making more

than $80 something thouand will not be eligigle for any subsidies.

Once a single person starts making more than 150% of the federal poverty level (currently that would be $16,125 the amount of subsidy you qualify for will begin to drop.

Subsidies are based on adjusted gross income.

It will help some but it will do more no good at all and may leave some worse off than they are now. Besides the insurance companies, the other big winners will be the credit card companies as out of pocket expenses continue to climb and many have no choice but to pay premiums and out of pockets with plastic.

The bill is a scam and nothing but a gift to the crooks who have been cheating us for years. It does nothing but prop up a failing system by forcing most of us to continue to buy into it without guaranteeing us better access to care.

[quiet.american]

73. When I was making more than that, I had insurance through my job.

And it was about $70/month. (Speaking as a single person).

If the bill doesn't work for you, I understand. But there are too many it would help to merely dismiss it out of hand. Could it be better? Yes. But as it is now, it will help those who really, really need something, rather than just being handed a palmful of unrealized ideals.

[dflprincess]

80. In the long run, the bill isn't going to work for anyone

the public option is being set up to fail by covering only the hard to insure. It will not be able to compete with the private companies and will become more expensive as time goes on. The only way a public option can work is to make the pool as large as possible and include as many low cost members in it as possible.

The "exchange" won't be ready until 2013 and then will only let smaller employers pick plans from it (though employer size allowed in will increase annually). Private plans will not be required to join the exchange. If this article ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20... )
in the Washington Post is accurate about what's in the Senate bill, you have to wonder why any private insurer would join the exchange.

Again, in the long run, this is a disaster. Most of us are going to see our premiums continue to go up while we get less and less and that will be true whether we have a private plan or managed to get on the public option. The Democrats had the opportunity to enact real change and secure their majority, instead they have chosen to ignore what the public wants and to sell us out. They are creating an expensive mess that the Republicans will eventually point to and say "See, 'government' healthcare doesn't work and we didn't cause this."

The very least they could have done was to allow the states to work on real solutions but they wouldn't even throw us that bone.

And the Democrats will wonder what happened when their voters stay home.

[quiet.american]

119. There are still inaccuracies in what you say, but I see you've already decided not to vote.

So, alright, if that's what you want to do.

[dflprincess]

163. Well, pray, tell me what these inaccuracies are.

One of the things I notice about the defenders of the insurance bill is that they keep telling us who aren't happy about it that we're wrong, but they rarely bother to detail just where we're misunderstanding the scam.


I've never said I won't vote. I'll show up - whether I vote in every race is what's up in the air. Thirty-seven years I've been active in the DFL and stuck by it through thick and thin often voting for candidates I really disliked because they were the lesser of 2 evils. It has finally dawned on me that the party is going to keep letting me down if I keep letting it and I'm no longer voting for the someone just because they slap a D or DFL after their name. A corporate sell out is a corporate sell out no matter what party they claim to belong to and a "D" doesn't mean I'm not voting against my own interests.

[quiet.american]

167. Here's where you can read it straight from the bill.

DFL, I really don't mean to be disrespectful, but I've posted ad nauseum in many, many posts on DU page numbers from the bill, excerpts from the bill, the bill itself, summaries of the bill & excerpts from summaries of the bill in great detail. I've come to realize, though, that there is a point of view that despises this bill and there's just no turning that around, so I've found myself losing interest in posting detail after detail after detail -- the bill is out there for everyone to read for themselves.

Immediate Reforms
National High Risk Pool
Essential Benefits Package
Health Exchange
Affordability Credits

If you download the bill and search those terms, these sections reference why I believe your comments contain inaccuracies.

[dflprincess]

170. I've read most the bill

and you're ignoring many of the flaws in it.

The fact is, there is nothing in this bill that guarantees improved access to care. All it guarantees is that most of us will be forced to continue to pay the same crooks who have been cheating us for years - even if all we can afford is a policy with out of pocket expenses that are so high we still can't afford to see a doctor. Covering preventitive care is nearly meaningless if a person can't afford any follow up that may be needed.

It is clear that the Democrats are only concerned with passing "something" and have no interest in meaningful change - especially if that change would put a dent in their campaign treasuries.

I've said again and again if the corporate stooges had had any intention of really reforming the system they would have left the amendment allowing the states to develop their own programs in the bill. At least then we would have had some hope for eventual change in some areas of the country that might spread nationwide but apparently even that sop was too much of a threat to the insurance companies and had to be stopped.

[quiet.american]

172. I'm sorry to hear you feel that way.

I still have to disagree with your perspective on what you've read in the bill.

[pundaint]

105. If you keep your interests "special" WE will never win

The only way to stand up against this kind of money is to all stand together. We all must demand universal single payer, or fire Congress in it's entirety and demand universal single payer from the new congress. Otherwise we're in competition with our brothers to see which of us doesn't get screwed. I say none of us will be screwed, damn it, even if we have to fire congress.

[quiet.american]

131. Idealism has it's place; but people are suffering now. They can't wait for utopia. nt

[Truth2Tell]

161. Helping those suffering people is very compelling.

That's why there is some help for the suffering in this bill. To get people on board. But it's a trade-off. Immediate relief for some people, in exchange for a much smaller likelihood of ever finding relief for the rest. Short term help for some in exchange for long term suffering for more. The Insurance Cartel has accepted this bargain because it's in their long term interests to insure their own survival and live to prey on people another day. And I promise you they will.

[quiet.american]

166. Just curious -- on what do you base your projections?

On what in the bill, as it is now, do you base your projection of "Short term help for some in exchange for long term suffering for more."

[Truth2Tell]

168. First, I firmly believe that a for-profit insurance system

leads to vastly more suffering than a government financed program. So in the long run the strengthening of the for-profit system at the expense of a government centric system (single-payer, public option, expanded Medicare, whatever) causes more suffering IMO.

Second, I believe this bill is designed to insure the long-term survival of the current system. The watered-down "Public Option" and the government mandates are designed to be the nails in the coffin of government centric insurance systems. That is their primary purpose in this bill.

In exchange for that, we get reforms from the Insurance Cartel that ease the suffering of many now in and out of the system.

So my "projections" are based simply on two assumptions - that for-profit insurance kills people, and that this bill is designed to ensure the ultimate survival of for profit insurance. If you disagree with those assumptions then we may be too far apart in our views to resolve our differences with any statistical or numerical "projections" about anything.

[quiet.american]

169. I think we can agree we are far apart in our views.

But the thing I most disagree with is that this is a static environment in which no change on the side of moving towards single-payer can ever occur. Someone posted elsewhere an ActBlue link to help elect more progressive candidates. We hear a lot about how Democrats have the majority, but I think that's as much an illusion as anything else in politics, given that the "majority," is rife with "ConservaDems," whom I blame more than anyone else for standing in the way of single payer.

If I understand you correctly, I understand you won't be satisfied until insurance companies are extinct, but I still have to give credit where credit is due to the bill, in terms of the reforms it does include that in real-world terms, eliminate the insurance companies' ability to "kill people."

[Truth2Tell]

171. I also give this bill credit for the real reforms

that will save lives and force the Insurance companies to clean up their act in many ways. They are very real and substantive and I'm not arguing against this bill by diminishing those things.

And yes, I think that we need to gradually move to a system of paying for health care in America that doesn't include for-profit health insurance companies at all. By definition, the inclusion of that "profit" removes resources from the system that could be saving lives. But I'm prepared for that to be a long term objective, as you describe. Let's elect more progressives, lets educate more people, etc.

My opposition to this bill isn't based on not getting everything right now. My opposition is based on my belief that this bill sets back the fight for government centric health insurance drastically. Maybe 30 years or more.

[quiet.american]

173. Fair enough. nt

[RKP5637]

54. Yes, exactly, just like the credit card reform that gives them plenty of time to screw us all! Why?

They want to be sure the contributions continue to flow. This country is run by greedy corporations, lobbyists and cornered wealth via a government bought and paid for by the same. And, how can we expect congressional millionaires to really have any empathy for the majority of the citizens. The yearly wages of many in this country are pocket change to congressmen.

[StreetKnowledge]

17. Yeah, they're aiding and abetting the cocksuckers.

If they were doing something to stop this, at the very least everybody could have the public option. They're playing politics. "See we have a public option!!" even though it only can cover 4% of the population. What we need is single payer, but that doesn't add to the profits of the health insurers, so of course they don't like it and spend nine-figure sums to make the ass kissers in Congress and the dumbest people in America agree. The people who work in health insurance might be good people, but I don't know how they have the ability to do what they do and still sleep every night.

We voted for Obama. Us progressives put him in the White House. Since then, he has ignored us. I've already decided I'm not voting Dem in 2010 or 2012 - and I would encourage progressives to do the same, because then they'll listen to us when they realize we won't support them if they ignore us.

[quiet.american]

19. Whatever. I'm done with the "let the Republicans win" crowd. nt

[dflprincess]

26. It isn't so much that the Republicans will win, it's that the Democrats will lose

and have no one but themselves to blame - though they will never admit it.

They could have gone for real change that might have helped the dwindling middle class and the working poor in a number of areas but so far they have chosen to protect the status quo instead. There is no point in continuing to elect Democrats who pretend to be our friends while selling us out as quickly as the Republicans do.

[quiet.american]

31. Fine. Go for it. nt

[kurtzapril4]

91. Re: Whatever

They already have.

[quiet.american]

132. Pithy and clever, but not true. nt

[geek tragedy]

61. Hmmm, homophobic title plus encouraging people to not vote Democratic.

Spidey sense is tingling . . .

[guitar man]

23. will it be in place before January 1 ? nt

[quiet.american]

27. Bottom line, I don't know -- probably not by January 1 --

The Senate is looking at recessing Dec. 18. Sen. Harkin's view:

The health care debate will be restarted in earnest tomorrow as Senate Democrats expect the Congressional Budget Office to score their version of the bill, which includes the opt-out public option.

But Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) today on a radio show laid out a schedule that would put the bill on Obama's desk in January, another delay.

Harkin was not very optimistic about the timing of final passage, saying on the "Bill Press Radio Show" the Senate would need to work every weekend in December to pass the bill by Christmas, according to The Hill.

As TPM reported yesterday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has no qualms forcing a delay.

Harkin, chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, said Democrats have mischief planned for the Republicans if they do that type of obstruction.

"If the Republicans want to stay here this Saturday and Sunday to read the bill, then let them stay here," he said. "We are planning to do something that would require Republicans to be there 24 hours a day, and if they leave the floor, we'll ask unanimous consent to dispense with the reading, and that'll be the end of it."

Harkin said he anticipates the score will be out tomorrow when the chamber returns for votes and party lunches. It's been more than a week since the House narrowly passed its bill.

Amendments won't start until after Thanksgiving, he said.

[guitar man]

32. well it's not going to do me any good then

Because that's when the rate increase hits and I simply can't afford it. I haven't been able to afford the last two, but have managed to struggle through....no raise last year, probably not going to get one this year....checkmate :(

[quiet.american]

34. You may qualify to get insurance thru the Exchange, if that survives the Senate.

Look, I hear you. And truthfully, I can't make any guarantees to your specific situation. But there just may be something in this bill that can help.

[guitar man]

37. I hope so

Because as it is, I'm going to have to sacrifice something yet again or go uninsured...probably my modest little '03 Dodge pickup truck, I will have to let them repo it because I doubt I can sell it for enough to get out from under the loan :(

[quiet.american]

40. I hear you, man -- can see that's definitely not a place you want to be.

If you have to drop your insurance because you can't afford it, it does sound to me like you would qualify for affordability credits/National High Risk Pool.

(Assuming these things survive the Senate. I've been pretty supportive of the House bill, but I may get as angry as some here if the Senate guts even what that offers.)

(And for the record, I'm currently uninsured -- so, the sooner the bill is passed, the better as far as I'm concerned, too.)

[guitar man]

41. What's going to happen

is if they don't get this shit under control, I will just quit my damn job and go sit down...I can not work and do without, why the hell would I want to work to get the same result? seriously

[quiet.american]

42. Not sure I'm clear on what you mean. nt

[guitar man]

44. What I mean is

It is getting to the point where going to work is no longer profitable, by the time I pay for health insurance, taxes and expenses incurred from working it's getting to the point where it's just not worth doing anymore. If I can work and be broke or not work and be broke what's the use?

[quiet.american]

45. Ah, I've had similar thoughts myself. nt

[AlecBGreen]

63. yeah i hear ya

a farmer near here had a dad who used to say "Doing nothin' for nothin' is better than doing somethin' for nothin'"

[guitar man]

71. Good one!

My dad was a die hard teamster and his favorite saying was "son you can get all the work you want if you'll just work cheap enough ". How right he was.

[laughingliberal]

74. I'm there. Have been out of work for 2 years this month

We are pretty desperate now but we were struggling when I lost my job. Am starting to think it's better to be poor and not have to show up at a job every day than it was to be poor while working my ass off. Have also started to see how much of the money we were spending was going to things I needed to keep working: $600/month in gas, work wardrobe, lunch (even packing my own meant food I wouldn't buy if I was home), haircuts and color to maintain 'professional look,' wear and tear on my car. Add in the toll on my health and everything it took to deal with the stress and I think it's not worth it anymore. I just can't do the running faster and harder to stay in the same place or fall slightly behind every year.

[alarimer]

118. Because this bill actually WILL NOT HELP.

It will make things worse and not for three more years at that. Somewhere up thread someone mentioned that co-pays, etc, UNDER THE PUBLIC OPTION could be as high as $10K. That's fucking highway robbery and it is all a giveaway to those criminal insurance companies.

Fuck that shit. This is not real reform. Fuck Obama, that lying piece of shit.

[quiet.american]

134. "Somewhere up the thread...." -- why not read the bill for yourself?

(The bill actually eliminates co-pays for preventive services.)

The bill caps out-of-pocket per year for families at $10,000. This means that if you need over $10,000 in medical services in a given year, you can never be charged out-of-pocket more than $10,000. (It's $5,000 for an individual.) That means people would not be forced to sell their homes or file for bankruptcy in order to pay medical bills. That looks like "help" to me.

[Kermitt Gribble]

156. You talk about the

10,000 and 5,000 out-of-pocket like it's nothing. A lot of us can't even dream of affording this.

"That means people would not be forced to sell their homes or file for bankruptcy in order to pay medical bills. That looks like 'help' to me." - what a joke.

[quiet.american]

162. I can't afford it either, but you know what I really can't afford? $50k out-of-pocket.

Note that that is the 'cap.' There are other things in the bill that subsidize costs so that the cap would be the most helpful towards catastrophic health crises. The lower one's income, the higher the subsidies.

If I have a heart attack tomorrow, they may as well just unhook me from the life support, because there's no way I'd be able to afford the cost of surviving. If I had to come up with $5k, though, I could find a way to do it -- it wouldn't be easy, but it wouldn't be as hopeless as looking at $25k or higher.

[fascisthunter]

152. yeah, like fucking us over, while rewarding a corrupt and disfunctional system

now THAT'S doing something, I guess.

[RockaFowler]

22. Oh yeah and they don't cover anything

I have insurance that I have to wait until I hit my deductible before they pay anything. It's such crap. What the HELL am I even paying them if they don't pay for anything??

[krispos42]

25. 25% a year?

Bah, you're lucky the free market gods have blessed you with such a modest increase!

[guitar man]

78. Yeah I should be grateful lol

Funny you mention the "market" , I was having this discussion with a right leaning friend the other day and he kept mentioning the market. I told him that the free market was fine for things, not people and that healtcare was about people . People do not belong on the market . I left him scratching his head

[krispos42]

100. Tell him the first thing the companies do it destroy the free market

Monopolies are so much easier and more profitable. You don't have to do any of that "innovation" stuff.

I asked my supervisor about this... I said "Okay, if there's a town with a McDonald's, and one day a Burger King gets built on the next block, is the owner of the McDonald's going to be happy or sad?"

"Sad, I guess."

"Okay, how will McDonald's have to compete with Burger King? Better pricing?

"Sure."

"Coupons? Advertising?"

"Yup."

"Maybe sponsor a Little League team?"

"I guess so."

"And hope headquarters comes up with a new nationwide product or promotion, right? Like Monopoly? Or a tie-in with a blockbuster movie?"

"Sure."

"Okay, now let's say the owner of the McDonald's doesn't have to follow the law. What's the best way to deal with the Burger King?"

"I dunno, what?"

"Five gallons of gasoline and a highway flare."

<He raises his eyebrows>

"Or a bribe to the mayor or the city counsel or the health inspector or the building inspector."

<He thinks for a few seconds>

"See? They don't want to compete. If it wasn't for laws, one would destroy the other or they would simply collaberate on price-gouging. Like when they charge ten bucks a gallon for gasoline whenever a hurricane nears Florida."

<He nods>

"Competition benefits the consumer, not the seller. It forces innovation in products, in customer service, and in advertising, and keeps prices low. See?"




I'm paraphrasing, of course. But I think I got to him.

[Romulox]

28. The solution is to force teenagers to pay your bill (and give them a taxpayer subsidy if they can't)

Under no circumstances should costs be controlled.

[Bobbie Jo]

30. Single Payor...or NOTHING.

:sarcasm:

[DU GrovelBot]

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[guitar man]

35. hey asshole,

did you even read the OP?!!

:rofl:

[L0oniX]

58. LOL

[geek tragedy]

62. +1 nt

[NoSheep]

86. I don't know how to spell snicker...hnmph-phfumph?

[cutlassmama]

39. Pretty soon we'll all have to have 2 or 3 jobs just to afford health care

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. Uniquely American, and Obama has said that the health ins cos DESERVE their profits.

So QUITYERBITCHIN' :evilgrin:

[dflprincess]

68. And don't forget you need to be putting money away for your retirement as well

Soon all our income will be used to pay for necessities, "someday" and "just in case". It would be nice if we could keep a few bucks to have a little fun with now - just in case someday never comes.

[MercutioATC]

47. Mine's increasing 80% just this year.

I'll be switching plans.

[guitar man]

48. Damn that's steep

I wish I could switch plans, we only have either individual or family, that's it. What's the real pisser with ours is, it doesn't matter whether you have one dependent or 20, it's the same rate once you step up to the family plan :(

[ecstatic]

50. I went to the doctor once this year and my rate is increasing by nearly $100

I wonder if the Senate is going to try to cap these huge increases?

[dugaresa]

52. mine were $600 a month, but it went up by 30% so I had to switch plans

to the lower monthly rate but it has much larger deductibles.

Soon people will have to choose between ever owning a home and healthcare.

It is very ugly.

[guitar man]

53. I wish I could switch

Where I work we either get a single plan or family plan, that's it, no other options, except going uninsured :(

[Bitwit1234]

55. Don't knock me.

But my health insurance has not increased for over 7 or 8 dollars a month for the last almost 10 years. I get it thru the state. And maybe since they have such a large bargaining chip CareFirst won't raise it. I pay about 98 dollars a month for health insurance and prescriptions. Dental is 7 dollars. Then of course 98 for Medicare. I am so so lucky. If I didn't have prescription coverage I would be dead. I could not afford the medicine I have to take under Medicare.

[guitar man]

57. I won't knock you

I just wish we could see fit as a nation to make healthcare that affordable for all of us....

[dflprincess]

69. What???? Your "government run" healthcare premium isn't increasing

at the same rate as private plans?

My Mom also has great insurance through Medicare and a state supported Medigap plan. Her income is low enough that she pays nothing in premiums for either plan; her drug copays are $1.00 generic and $3.00 brand name and I think she has a $3.00 copay for office visits. She was in the hospital overnight in July and paid nothing except the copays on the prescriptions she took home. Even the ambulance was covered. However, the dental coverage isn't so good - the reimbursement rates are so low that it's hard to find a dentist who takes it.

These are the programs that need to be expanded to all of us. I would have no problem with my taxes going up to cover it and I doubt they'd go up anywhere near what my employer and I pay now for premiums and out of pocket expenses.

P.S. Don't apologize for having this.

[rucky]

126. No knocks here. This is the program we support. n/t

[L0oniX]

60. Good ...the more people who can't afford it means there are more that will fight for SPHC.

[guitar man]

72. I'm ready to fight to the death for sphc

But in the meantime, I'm fooked :(

[earth mom]

66. Sorry, but Obama isn't listening and doesn't give a shit. nt

[Echo In Light]

77. Can you image the potential people would have if only they let go of their illusions?

[EVDebs]

67. Wall St. wants us in those HSA's during 'open enrollment' nt

[dflprincess]

70. That's what my employer is going to next year.

The HSA is "managed" by J.P. Morgan. When the "advantages" of this system were being explained to us by the Cigna rep, we were told that once we get $2,000 into the savings account we may put it into a mutual fund (fortunately, that's still an individual decision, my money will stay in the savings account which I was told is insured). Both the Cigna stooge and the person from our HR department did not appreciate the skepticism expressed about putting health care dollars into the stock market. Remember - if you get sick, try and do it during a bull market.

The funny thing is, IRS regulations limit how much you can add to the HSA each year and that amount is less than what my maximium out of pocket ($3,700) can be starting next year. However, my employer is not raising our share of the premium by more than a couple bucks, but I would rather that had gone up so I didn't have to worry about having enough cash or "savings" to cover expenses when I need the doctor.

I have moments when I just can't believe how screwed we are.

[Indenturedebtor]

75. Mine doubled as well. They're raising as much as possible before an anticipated lock

Insurance companies should be crushed.

[RoadRage]

79. What MORE exactly would you like Obama to do?

I think if he could just snap his fingers.. he'd have done it by now. But, there are these pesky people called REPUBLICANS and some Blue Dogs that are holding this up.. NOT Obama. In fact, he's dedicated his entire first year, and a hell of a lot of Political capital to get it to where it currently is.

So, perhaps instead of asking what MORE Obama could be doing for your health care.. you should be asking what more can YOU do for your health care. Make phoe calls, call Senators - especially the blue dogs. And then get your friends to do it.. and their friends.

But yelling at Obama on a message board about his "lack" of effort in this is not the way i'd go if I wanted to see actual reform.

[guitar man]

83. If you'll notice I included congress in the op

And I have written and called, called an written then written and called again. It's just maddening to see it crawling along and I needed to vent. As far as health coverage goes for my family the world ends on 1-1-10. I've worked my ass off and done all I can do to keep paying for coverage, I can't do anymore :(

[RoadRage]

85. I'm really sorry for you & your family..

and I thank you IMMENSELY for doing all that you have done to help the cause. I just get frustrated when I think people really are upset because they don't think Obama has done anything - and I think he's doing as much as he can both on the surface and behind the scenes. If this was easy, it would have been done 70 years ago.. but sadly, there is a very large group of American's who have their silver spoon and don't think that they need to share their medicine with anyone else.

I will think of your family as I continue to push for this epic change.. and I really do think it will happen - but sadly, not before you need it in less then 2 months. :(

[guitar man]

87. Thank you

I'm going to keep pushing too. I guess I'm just going to let the bank come repo my pickup truck so I can pay for the increase, I can't think of anything else to sacrifice, I'm damn sure not letting my bike go, I have it damn near paid off. I am so damn sick and tired of sacrificing for the sake of the wealthy few....

[LeftyMom]

97. "Actual reform"???

He's not even TRYING actual reform. He's not even rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, he's just asked Congress if they'd be kind enough to authorize some nicer cushions to be installed in a few years.

[RoadRage]

120. Right... and so far, no one is even WILLING TO DO THAT.

He's asking for baby steps.. and people are fighting him every inch of the way on even that.. so he's suppose to say, screw it - I want a full single payer system in place, since you're not even willing to give me a small public option, i'm just going to ask for something 10,000 times more difficult to get approved.

How is that even logical. OBAMA DOESN'T MAKE LAWS - he signs them.

[urgk]

82. I hear you. Mine tripled. For moving to a lower-cost area.

What I don't hear the MSM doing is talking about how this kind of rising cost will destroy small businesses. Both in terms of direct cost to overhead and in lost business because people have less disposable income.

[guitar man]

84. Exactly

It's a net pay cut every year any way you look at it

[MannyGoldstein]

88. This Is What We Get When We Enable DINOs

Pom-pomers take note.

[TicketyBoo]

96. A little consideration, please.

If we didn't have Ben Nelson, we would have another Republican, not someone who is a more liberal Democrat.

We already have one Republican Senator, and it is very hard for anyone with a "D" beside their name to get elected out here, no matter how good they are.

My Congressman is a Republican.

It's easy to wish, but wishing ain't gonna make it so, and that's just the way it is out here in the cornfields. So you may want to take that into account when you're putting down the DINOs. Still beats a Republican, at least in my book. Just no choice in the matter here.

[MannyGoldstein]

112. There's A Reason That We Imprison Uniformed Enemies

but shoot spies.

I think that nothing's more dangerous than one of them pretending to be one of us. If a politician is going to sodomize the middle class, I want the Republicans to own it.

[TicketyBoo]

165. So you're suggesting

that I vote Republican next time?

Just go with the flow?

[MannyGoldstein]

182. Vote Third Party nt

[TicketyBoo]

184. Get real.

There is very rarely a third party candidate here for whom to vote.

[DesertFlower]

92. we got ours last week. there's no charge for hubby

(he's the employee) but my coverage went from $115 a month to $127. the deductible went from $742 to $900 for each one of us and there are co-pays. the dental went from $69 a month to $76.

BTW. the insurance company is united health care.

i've been eligible for medicare for a few years, but hubby's plan is still better deal (prescriptions are included with co-pays), but i'm going to take a closer look at medicare for 2011.

[UrbScotty]

94. THEY'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING!!!!!

BUT BIG MONEY WON'T LET THEM!!!

[guitar man]

129. well then

Maybe it's time to drag the big money guys into the street and beat them within an inch of their miserable lives....enough!! :grr:

[FirstLight]

102. Guh...that's awful

Here's HOPE-ing that we will see some legislation that actually HELPS.!!

[earth mom]

106. I thought this thread was posted under a different user's name?

:wtf:

[Capt13]

107. The "REAL" cost

Everyone seems to gloss over one of the biggest hidden costs of employee health benefits. I am fortunate enough to have my employer co-op 60%. Three years ago they paid 75%. Does anyone understand the concept of DEFERRED WAGES ? I pay $3744/yr meaning my employer takes $7488/yr out of available payroll funds to cover this.
The last two January's they broke out the crying rag and whined they just can not afford to pass out raises using the EXCUSE of increases in premiums.When I voiced my objection to this last year I was told "if you like we can give you a 5% ( .86/hr)increase and you can pay the entire premium" and later was sat down and asked "Would you be happier working elsewhere?" (we have a 13% unemployment rate here).
I worked for small businesses for 20 years and understand the concept of making sacrifices in tough times to help keep things afloat.
This is just another strong arm tactic in this case as I am presently employed by a member owned (equity) country club with a buy in of $250,000.00 and $15,000.00.+ in yearly dues. We recently hosted a members daughters wedding where the bar tab was 2 years my net income. The membership is comprised of mostly wall street investors.
I have 35 years experience and am considered amongst the top in my field. How do young or unskilled people even survive when people like me can't? What's it doing to their children?

[RockaFowler]

108. My husband's company had to drop the insurance

They couldn't afford it anymore. So now I have to put my husband on my plan. It will cost me $150 every other week for the 2 of us. It was paid for entirely by his company, so that is a major increase for our family. Oh yeah and no pay increase this year, so I'm getting paid less next year and working more. Gotta love America. :patriot:

[madrchsod]

109. they only listen to who gives the most money to get them reelected

it has nothing to do with what is best for you or i, it`s best for them.

the fatal flaw in all of this is the government`s basing everything on gross wages not net.

[Ganja Ninja]

110. We're at war.

The American people are at war with corporate America. We're losing 45,000 people a year on the health care front alone. We need to understand that the longer we delay the more casualties we will suffer. We also need to understand the criminal nature of our enemies and make them pay through the nose for what they're doing.

[Bluenorthwest]

115. Obama says your Insurance Company deserves to profit

and that profit has to come from someplace. Why don't you want to do your part to make sure the Insurance Companies get what they 'deserve'? They deserve it, he says, without explaining why, what they have done to deserve it.

[Wizard777]

127. They deserve to be thrown in a cell with Madoff.

If only Madoff would have called them policies instead of shares. He would still be a very free and wealthy man. Because then his illegal ponzie scheme would have been legal wealth insurance. The only thing he would have had to change is the name of the trading instrument.

[Shagbark Hickory]

116. So why not just cancel your policy.

If you're actually getting the bills for your policy, chances are it's an individually separate plan and we all know those are worthless.

[guitar man]

133. I'm not getting the bills

It's coming out of my paycheck, this is the insurance I get through my job

[Shagbark Hickory]

185. Have you brought this to the attention of your HR department?

They may not be renegotiating or doing the necessary shopping around every couple of years that is required. It's all part of the game. I know someone who does the HR shit for an office and they said they have to change insurance companies every couple of years because of the rates. They bounce around. It's not competitive per se but one will offer a lower rate then jack the rates up then the next company will do that and so on and so on. There is no loyalty and the insurance companies don't give a crap. They have more customers than they know what to do with.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

121. Maybe we need massive civil disobedience

in the form of canceling our individual policies and refusing to buy the mandated insurance unless the price comes down.

Figure out how much you are paying per year in premiums alone. Then consider how much medical care you could buy with those thousands of dollars. Look at your deductibles and copays. Would you have to declare bankruptcy anyway if you had to pay them?

Maybe completely overloading the bankruptcy system is the only way to get the message across.

[Haole Girl]

123. I feel the same way about jobs...

as if things aren't changing quickly enough.

Obama warned us it will take time. How much time do we have, though? And will we ever recover from the damage done by the * administration?

I guess time will tell. Hang in there. :hug:

[guitar man]

128. thanks HG

I think this could be a case of where fixing one problem would go a long way to fixing the other. If my health insurance premium rolled back even just to where it was in 06, imagine what I could do with another $250 a month. I can think of a lot of things I would rather do with that money other than fork it over to an insurance company. For starters, my wife could use a new car, she's driving a 15 year old car with 220k miles on it. Or if we didn't get a car, there's a whole lot of places that money could be going back into the economy.

Now multiply that times millions and millions of people who are in the same boat we are.

[davidwparker]

124. "DO SOMETHING, NOW!!!!!!!" - Vote all of them out. How could this

happen with Democratic majorities? I'm so shocked.

[Wizard777]

125. All the money the insurance companies are spending on defeating health care has to come from -

somewhere. Do you think the CEO's are going to take it out of their lavish salaries or obscene bonuses. HELL NO! Maybe they will take it out of the share holders profit & dividends? HELL NO! You will pay 100% - 200% of their total costs in defeating health care to ensure you have no other alternative to being their over charged and under cared for customer. Or as they call you, "SUCKER!" As I've been saying for the longest time. Even if health care doesn't pass Premiums are going up. Somebody has to pay for all those lobbyists to screw you over and it won't be them. That much you can be sure of.

[valerief]

130. Bootstraps, dammit! And emergency wards! That's the Republican way. nt

[closeupready]

139. Can you get a second job, you bum?

:sarcasm:

[Incitatus]

140. Don't get sick

If you do, die quickly

:patriot:

[ddeclue]

141. Doesn't your 125% salary increase in the last 3 years cover it with room to spare?

:sarcasm:

[guitar man]

149. !!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[barbtries]

142. my boss just called me

and said today is the day to call our senator (hagan, NC). get on the phone and tell your story to your congressperson's office, today.

[guitar man]

144. thanks

I'll do that yet again, but with the likes of Inhofe, Coburn and Lucas I don't expect it will do much good :(

[revolution breeze]

145. My Catch-22 situation

I have advanced rheumatoid arthritis and Sjogren's syndrome. I will be in a wheelchair withing 3-5 years and my wrists are completely fused. I am currently working in order to have medical coverage through my employer. My doctor has advised me to quit working and apply for SSI and medical benefits, but because that process is so difficult and takes so long, I have to continue to work in order to be able to go to the doctor, which serves as "proof" I am not disabled. They don't understand there are days I have to drag myself out to the car to make my appointments and use voice recognition software to prepare my reports because typing is so difficult.

[TZ]

146. Yeah its a bitch

My Uncle is on a pension and I believe his health care premiums are now about 70-75% of that pension. Fortunately his house is paid off. Otherwise, I don't know what he'd do (and he has health issues).
This is why I tell people we cannot just go with the Status Quo!

[HughMoran]

147. Switched from BIG company to SMALL company - RATE TRIPLED!!!!

Hello!!!! HELP!!!!!

:mad:

[fascisthunter]

150. oh they will... they'll give the health insurance more business

and tell us all it's for our own good.

[phasma ex machina]

155. +1 You can bank on big gov colluding with big biz every time.

Big biz reckons that it owns sizable chunks of big gov. Ergo "too big to fail."

Some writers make credible arguments that big banks established the Federal Reserve to simply limit competition. Others say that big food and drug companies created the FDA for the same reason.

[phasma ex machina]

151. Premiums typically take a big hike when you and/or your spouse enter an older age bracket. nt

[guitar man]

153. Hey!

Just what are you trying to say here? :spank: :rofl:

jk :D

You know I wouldn't have as big of a problem with that. But that doesn't apply here, insurance is the same all the way through my company, whether you're 18 or 80 it doesn't matter, we have two rates, single or family, that's it.

[phasma ex machina]

158. My own family's premiums skyrocketed for a good 5 years straight it seems.

Then we must've entered an older bracket because the crazy increases stopped.

[Vidar]

154. K&R

[abelenkpe]

159. Our coverage has gone up

every year for the past nine years. Went up again this year, of course....


Single payer is what we need.

[debbierlus]

160. This is the system they want to enslave you in - without a public option available to everyone

This is your only choice.

And, they will STILL be able to deny care when you need it. Not under a preexisting condition, of course, but they have a zillion and one other reasons.

[truedelphi]

179. + 10. n/t

[bkkyosemite]

164. My premium for Medicare advantage plan is going up 60% in January because Obama is cutting their

subsidies which I agree with ...but the insurance companies are dumping the cost on the seniors. We need COLA for the next two years. We need 100% coverage thru Medicare so we don't have to put up with the insurance companies killing us out here with their premiums...

This is a crime for all Americans.

[nonconformist]

174. Ours is doubling at the first of the year, too. The kicker is it used to be free.

Well, reimbursed. There was a weekly premium that came out of my husband's paycheck, but the company would reimburse you for the premiums paid twice a year. His company told everyone a few weeks ago that the premiums will be doubling, and no more reimbursement.

[MidwestRick]

175. Suck for you

Our insurance premium isn't going up at all. The only additional charge is our co-pay goes from 20 a visit to 25 a visit.

[lib_wit_it]

176. Highway robbers! You have my sympathy. Mine will be over 50% higher than last year. My husband

doesn't even have insurance due to the cost and the fact that he can't get my plan, which isn't the greatest even for the price. Fucking greedy politicians and corporations!

[guitar man]

180. Wow

When I posted this little rant to vent yesterday I had no idea it would have 143 recs and all these great responses by today.It is obvious that so many are in the same boat with me and so many more are worse off when it comes to trying to take care of our family health care needs.

As I was writing the OP yesterday, the thought ran through my mind that if a Bu$h could stand before congress and throw out his little yellowcake speech about imaginary threats and crises and get congress to snap to and jump right on it, why the hell can't our President point out a legitimate crisis that millions and millions of us are facing and get a similar response?

It's clear to me that it's time for them to get tough about this, especially in the senate and get it done now. To hell with the opposers and naysayers and to hell with their precious "free market". I've said it before and I'll say it again, the market is for things, not people, and this is about people. People's needs and people's lives hanging in the balance. Let the market handle cars, big screen tv's, cell phones and blue jeans and the like. It is time to take families out of the market equation where the biggest of vultures are allowed to prey on our desperation....enough! If the obstructionists won't get the hell out of the way then yank their damn committe chairmanships or whatever it takes to get it done. :grr:

And a note to any lurking freepers: No I am not asking for a scot-free handout here, I'm just asking as a working man to be able to take care of my family's medical needs at a price I can afford. I grew up on a farm and have been working since I was 5 years old and at 46 can still work circles around people half my age so save the insults regarding laziness etc. for someone who might buy that bullshit. I have always paid my way in life and will continue to do so as long as I'm able. I just cannot continue to take unreasonable increases and be a productive working member of this society. I just cant....