I think I found out why the fundies don't give a damn about the poor/homeless/hungry...

[Ghost in the Machine]

2 Thessalonians 3:10 (King James Version)

10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thessalonians%203:10&version=KJV


just sayin'...

[bluestateguy]

1. Oh yes, I've heard many in their crowd say exactly that

nt

[Phlem]

2. hmm...

Can't quite picture Jesus doing that or have I rubbed to much cannabis oil on?

-phlem

[LuvNewcastle]

3. Then there's John 12:8

http://bible.cc/john/12-8.htm

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. Jesus wasn't RECOMMENDING that the poor be always with us

He was stating it as a fact when the disciples criticized the woman who anointed his feet. They grumbled, "She should have used that money for the poor." Jesus is actually telling them that it's a lame criticism because they can give to the poor anytime, when he is going to be around only for a short time.

It's a great example of fundies quoting verses out of context, like the anti-gay verses surrounded by verses that the fundies would never dream of following.

[Richard D]

4. Written by Paul

Who, if he were alive today, would be a right wing nut.

[KT2000]

5. Fear is the strongest and

most unpredictable emotion. A civil society must be organized to manage fear. I believe we are in an eternal battle on how to manage fear.

Some have their fear relieved by knowing that there are others below them. Those below are deserving of their situation (bad decisions)and those above them are safe because they are better people (made good decisions). The poor, homeless and hungry are a constant reminder that those that "have" are safe. To give to them would be to deplete the safety of the "haves." (Republicans)

Some believe that fear is relieved by making sure everyone has enough - therefore there is less to fear from others. Sharing enhances the feeling of safety and contentment. (Democrats)

You get into an intense discussion with a RWer and it eventually comes down to fear and money.

[tblue]

7. You nailed it. Fear and money.

Does that sum up SP or what? All of them. ALL of them!

[arcadian]

24. To eliminate fear you have to eliminate desire.

[KT2000]

50. Like desire to survive?

I know what you mean - the less you desire, the less you have to lose, less fear. The Stoics worked on that.

The basic need to survive is served by fear though.

[Sinti]

6. They believe the rich are blessed by god

with wealth for being pious and the poor are cursed with poverty for being sinful. I can't remember which verse they use to excuse their weirdness. It's ain't Jesus talking, that much I'm sure of.

Even with that verse, it's not a matter of "would not work." People in the modern age are prevented from working. They cannot build themselves a house, grow food, or even gather a few nuts from a tree without permission from their owners.

[tblue]

8. Calvinism was all about that, I think.

But what do I know at this time of night?

I live how they use the Bible to justify their hate and their greed.

[Sinti]

9. Poor Jesus - he must be rolling in his... never mind n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

12. Yep, Calvinism.

Predestination. Good people, being blessed by god with wealth, are preordained to go to heaven due to their piety and hard work.

John Calvin has the distinction of barbecuing the first Unitarian, Michael Servetus, in 1553 in Geneva.

He was barbecued for being anti-infant baptism and for non-trinitarianism.

QUOTE from wikipedia:

On 27 October 1553 Servetus was burned at the stake just outside Geneva with what was believed to be the last copy of his book chained to his leg. Historians record his last words as: "Jesus, Son of the Eternal God, have mercy on me."

Servetus was also a physician and described the function of pulmonary circulation in 1553, before William Harvey in 1616.

Western historians of science have since learned that a separate discovery of pulmonary circulation was made in the 13th century by Ala-al-Din Abu al-Hasan Ali Ibn Abi al-Hazm al-Qarshi al-Dimashqi (known as Ibn Al-Nafis), who was born in 1213 A.D. in Damascus.<37> Because of limitations of culture and language, his discovery was not transmitted to or understood in Europe.
END QUOTE

[Lydia Leftcoast]

32. Calvinism said that God created some people for heaven and some people for hell

From there, it was a short step to believe that good fortune in life was a sign of God's favor, a belief that is actually condemned in the Bible.

[alfredo]

47. The Family,(C Street assholes) are Calvinist.

[GoCubsGo]

22. That explains the "lazy welfare queen" meme...

They bought it all on themselves because they're lazy, dontcha know? I hear the same crap from atheist Libertarian types, too. "You are in your bad place because you made "poor decisions", blah, blah, blah. Get a job. You just don't want to work, you parasite." It's just a pile of excuses from a bunch of greedheads, who make them to absolve themselves from any sort of responsibility toward their fellow human beings. And, they actually believe they earned their "wealth" all by themselves through their "hard work." Forget the inheritance/marriage/theft/government tax breaks...

[arcadian]

25. I have a libertarian friend who thinks he pulled himself up by his own boot straps.

He's not the "hard work" type either, but always with the free market, I think he thinks being a libertarian makes him some kind of cool revolutionary, it doesn't, libertarians are assholes.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. During her interview with Bill Moyers, Anna Deveare Smith said something that I've believed for a

long time: that right-wingers disparage the poor as a kind of magical thinking to prevent poverty from ever happening to them.

[Ozymanithrax]

10. If you read verse 11 and 12, you will see it is about gossip.

not about being poor/homeless/hungry...

2 Thessalonians 3:11 (King James Version)

11For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
2 Thessalonians 3:12 (King James Version)

12Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Gossip is a cute way to put it

It is about minding your own damn business, which is more than mere gossip. Eating your own bread means my family is off limits to Tim Kaine's opinions. It means Prop 8 was against their teachings.

[Ozymanithrax]

51. Prop 8 violates American Ideals, but it does not violate Christian teaching.

Neither of which make a bug shits bit of difference to conservatives. Politics works like a religion and they hold their political beliefs as articles of faith.

[Zomby Woof]

11. You're assuming they have actually read the damn book

:D

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. Right

A lot of them just parrot whatever their self-appointed preachers say, just as they parrot what the talk radio guys say.

[tmyers09]

13. Aww! I was gonna go with:

They believe that homelessness/poverty is God's will for one's own failings, and in that same vein, it is also God's will if somebody dies early due to hunger/lack of health care?

[treestar]

14. Probably in context there was work to do there

But it doesn't account for disability.

But there are right wingers who, even today, just say go and get a job. Like that's so simple in such a complex economy, even in the best of times.

[gleaner]

15. I have a disability ....

I have had conservatives tell me it is a punishment from God for something I have done. They don't know what it is a punishment for, but they hinted darkly that I did. MS as the vengeance of the Lord. I don't think so.

When I was debating Freepers on stem cell research and argued that it might help people with disabilities like mine, I was told bluntly that a zygote's "potential life" is worth more than my existing life. Whatever. I considered the source.:crazy:

As for their Biblical references that they use to support the fact that the poor must work to eat and be considered "human," I used to give them back this quote.

Don't worry about food
For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?
Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?
And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?

Would you believe that most of them did not know it was from the Sermon on the Mount, or even what that was?

It is a great relief not to be a fundamentalist Christian. I'd rather be happy, I think.

[AllentownJake]

16. Tell them to read Job and to go fuck themselves

Job makes it very clear that rain falls on the just and unjust.

[gleaner]

54. I told them ...

to sit on it and rotate. If I had told them to read Job, though, they would have said it was his own fault as well and that he was probably causing the rain as well. The meaning is very clear to rational people like you, and to semi rational people like me ;) but we are talking snake biting fundies who move their lips when they read the Cheerios box.

[treestar]

23. OH man

that's enough to get me wishing those effers could have something disabling visited upon their selfish unchristian selves.

And yes, they don't know the Bible at all. Must get their ideas from the preachers directly. Sounds like prosperity preachers are they ones they heard.

[gleaner]

55. Probably....

I've never believed that a God of love would punish his children by destroying their bodies or minds, anymore than a good mother or father would. I tend to go with the stuff happens theory and that we grow within ourselves by getting through it as best we can and taking what it teaches us along the way and increasing ourselves with that knowledge, if that makes any sense. I need coffee, you see.;)

[FBaggins]

20. It does "account for disability"... THEY don't

"They" being anyone who reads it the way the OP jokes they do.

It is clearly implicit that it is "anyone who COULD work, but WON'T".

[Bluenorthwest]

18. First, this was written by Paul who also commanded that

"slaves obey your masters" and all of that. So if you oppose slavery, and quote Paul, you are in a pickle deluxe.
But I'd also add that this verse refers to minding one's own business, and also that the early 'church' lived communally, each giving according to his ability and each taking according to his needs, as described in Acts chapter 2. So contextual readings are different from cherry pickings. A cherry picker like Obama can quote Paul against gay people, while pretending the pro slavery verses do not even exist. If America followed Paul, we'd still have slavery. He said Master are God's proxy in the life of slaves. He also said women must be subservient, unadorned with fancy attire and other things that, for example, Michelle Obama is most certainly not following.
Paul. He's what many worship. He's an American Idol.

[Fumesucker]

19. They are Paulists, not Christians..

Paulists rarely quote the Christ and never, ever the Sermon on the Mount.

But they can quote Paul chapter and verse with no problem.

People take away from scripture pretty much what they bring to it, the Bible is large enough and chaotically self-contradictory enough that you can find justification for any damn thing you please, up to and including mass murder.

See: Canaanites, the slaughter of..

Or Elisha, the bears and the children.

[Orsino]

21. To avoid having to share, they have to pretend that the needy are unworthy. n/t

[arcadian]

26. That's Okay, hope they can change their attitudes before the Revolutionary council gets to them,

and decides they should be summarily executed for being a dick. Revolutions a comin' fundies, better run and hide!

[kctim]

27. You guys are funny

Do any of you actually know anybody from the right side of the aisle?

[Lars39]

28. Quite a few of us have fundy family members, co-workers, etc.

[kctim]

30. And none of them care about anybody else?

I don't buy it.

Pretty much all of us share the same goal with them, its how we reach that goal that we disagree with each other on.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. In the case of my right-wing family member, he cares about family and close friends

but not about people he's never met.

After I came back from volunteering with a church group doing hurricane relief in Mississippi, he made disparaging remarks about people "sitting around waiting to be helped."

I had to give him a few facts about how things were there, such as people not being able to get a FEMA trailer until their lots were cleared of debris, and that included homeowners who were elderly or disabled.

[kctim]

41. What's so wrong with that?

The more he cares and tends to his family and friends, the less you need to and you can instead concentrate on helping those YOU believe should be helped in YOUR own way.

You both are caring for others, so how can either of you be wrong?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. It's not an either/or situation--

There's nothing that says you can't care for both, and the right-wingers vote on the basis of not giving a hoot about strangers.

[Lars39]

36. For the most part, no.

They help members of the congregation.

[kctim]

42. If they are helping members of the congregation

they are caring for others.
You're issue seems to be with them not helping in the way you think they should, not with the not helping at all.

[treestar]

56. They are against helping people they don't know

What does that tell you about them?

[fascisthunter]

45. which means they only help those who share their beliefs

while judging everyone else, unworthy. It's a form of discrimination that actually goes against one of their Commandments, not to judge.

This is why I give no valiodity to their views when it comes to politics...

[fascisthunter]

38. yes, actually I do

and the few that I have had personal relations with use many things in the bible to justify their World view.

[kctim]

43. So what

most people use personal beliefs to justify their world view.

[fascisthunter]

44. the ironic thing is, it isn't their own view

but the view of someone close to 2000 years ago, so no, it isn't the same thing, and we all know how fictitious and outdated those "World Views" are, so it's silly for you to equate both the way you just did. You must have a higher regard for the bible than I and many others do here on DU.

[kctim]

46. It doesn't matter where their personal views come from

no more than it matters where our personal views come from, and it is silly for one to believe the other is wrong simply because it comes, or does not come, from a certain book, stone or animal.

The OP is about charity and condemning or denouncing a person due to the way they help or care, is ridiculous.

FWIW, I hold no regard for anothers religion, but my higher regard for my fellow Americans right to believe as they wish allows me to see past such petty contempt for them.

[fascisthunter]

48. well then test that theory... stone somebody for eating shell fish

show respect for all others, by not crossing this line between church and state... it really isn't that difficult.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I know to religious fanatics, this quote means nothing, but hating groups of people and shoving religious dogma down tax payers throats by way of using the COmmons is just fine with you and them. Our Freedoms from religion should be respected as well. This debate has been settled and I will not allow a religious fanatic who obviously has a few screws loose to ever demand I have to listen to their biblical bullshit while doing so on OUR dime.

If you and they want respect, ya better show us respect too... but ya don't, and you crossed the line too many times, so I and others are calling you all fanatics and the bible bullshit. Welcome to the World View, which includes ours as well.

[kctim]

52. What line does one cross when they help

their fellow American because their belief in a God says its the right thing to do? None.

The OP is about charitable giving, not the 1st Amendment or your interpretation of it. So there is no need for me to address your fear based opinion of religion.

You're last statement does exactly what the OP does in that it groups an entire group of people together as bad, based on the extreme actions of a few. One could just as easily say that you are fine with hating groups and shoving liberal dogma down tax payers throats by way of using the commons and be just as correct.

You know nothing of me, but in your haste to condemn all things religion, you allow your emotions to take over for rational thought. Why? Because I dare suggest that not all religious people share the extreme religious views you seem to fear.
I have crossed no lines and I am hardly deserving of the fanatic label you seem willing and happy to place on all who are religious. You see, I am an atheist who shares your world view on this, but unlike you, I do not fear their world view.

[treestar]

57. Actually not

their views do not match Jesus' very well.

[Echo In Light]

29. I figure it's just cause they're heartless bastards at best, caustic, sadist goons at worst

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[fascisthunter]

39. could be, but I think it's because they are generally overly judgmental

and use the bible to veil their disdain for others. In their case, they judge people to death, while most others just criticize.

[L0oniX]

40. Sermon on the mount ...Jesus and the disiples feed the people.

I guess they first checked to make sure everyone had a job.

[county worker]

53. My grandmother use to say that to us in Italian all the time.

I can't spell it in Italian but it sounded like - no fatigue no mange.

Her and my mom really were afraid that if we weren't busy we would get into trouble.