Palin To Vegans: "If God had not intended for us to eat animals, how come He made them out of meat?"

[kpete]

WTF???

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-14/top-10-palin-book-leaks/3/

15. She Really, Really Loves Meat

You won’t find veggie burgers in the Palin household. In a Huffington Post excerpt from her memoir she describes her carnivorous urges:

If any vegans came over for dinner, I could whip them up a salad, then explain my philosophy on being a carnivore: If God had not intended for us to eat animals, how come He made them out of meat? I love meat. I eat pork chops, thick bacon burgers, and the seared fatty edges of a medium-well-done steak. But I especially love moose and caribou. I always remind people from outside our state that there's plenty of room for all Alaska's animals—right next to the mashed potatoes.

[flvegan]

1. HAHAHA! The same response some DUers commonly give!

:rofl:

Sorry, I'll stop.

[graywarrior]

10. !

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[RadiationTherapy]

18. double-plus funny.

[SallyMander]

25. I thought the same thing!

In case I needed yet another reason to be glad I'm a vegetabletarian... one LESS thing in common with SP! :D

[Ignis]

62. A DUer would have said, "That question makes me want a steak."

Oh well, big tent and all that, so plenty of room for the asshole wing! :hi:

[Arugula Latte]

75. Exactly! They think it's so clever ...

Here's a clue ... If Sarah Palin says it, it has jumped the shark!

[proteus_lives]

109. Actually I say if they didn't want to get eaten, they shouldn't be so delicious.

:rofl:

[JeffR]

122. Bravo!

:rofl:

[superduperfarleft]

135. +1. n/t

[fascisthunter]

144. lol

[Karmadillo]

146. Palin Eating Tasty Animals.

nt

[Ignis]

152. I see what you did there.

Well played. :thumbsup:

[ddeclue]

172. DUZY...PETA and Palin opposite sides of the same screwed up coin.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

177. Yeah I have heard the exact same thing on DU

Wow, that has to sting!

[marmar]

2. People are made out of meat, so did God intend us to eat each other?

Setting aside arguments over eating meat, her statement is inherently stupid.

[dana_b]

15. exactly what I was thinking

she must have flunked logic in school.

[prolesunited]

39. Maybe logic was the class that she got a D in

Although it seems like she must have had worse grades than that

[old mark]

173. She has a degree in journalism-(!)- no logic required. nt

[Vehl]

47. well said!

[Touchdown]

52. Those Chilean soccer players lived off of their mates.

[LynneSin]

194. They were from Uruguay

they happened to crash somewhere on the Chile-Argentina border

[Capn Sunshine]

80. That's why he made fava beans and good chianti

duh.

[guitar man]

160. Well um...

I guess it depends on exactly what you mean by "eat each other "

:evilgrin:

[emsimon33]

180. I posted the same thought before I read yours

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

3. Dear Sarah Palin

If God had not intended for us to eat human beings, how come He made THEM out of meat?

[TroglodyteScholar]

43. Even though I eat meat, this was my first thought, too.

What a maroon.

[ixion]

4. we're omnivoures, at best

and there's a strong argument to be made for our species being largely herbivore.

But hey, I know Mooseburger not one to let science stand in the way.

[Johonny]

36. that's what I was thinking

[Kerrytravelers]

5. I love how Caribou Sarah really tried to understand other views on things.

It is what makes her such a powerful leader.

:eyes:

[rd_kent]

6. Probably the ONLY thing palin and i agree on.....

Meat is good.

[Paladin]

198. Aw, Don't Be Modest.

I bet there are LOTS of things you and Palin agree on......

[Drunken Irishman]

7. No, no, no Palin.

If God had not intended for us to eat animals, why'd He make them so tasty?

:D

[BrklynLiberal]

..and she forgot to mention the wolves that she condoned being shot from helicoptors

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_f8HQ8QpcUVU/SOBm0UF-gmI/AAAAAAAAAoE/tt2LjY4B58g/s400/palin+bags+statue+of+liberty.jpg

[bif]

8. The next president of the USA

Because Americans want stupid!

[Bobbieo]

14. Right On, bif

[TheDebbieDee]

26. Speak for yourself. We've already had 8 years of STOOPID!

[The Gunslinger]

58. That would be funny is it wasn't a true possibility.

[Arkana]

72. It's not.

[The Gunslinger]

97. we can only hope

Republicans love her, and would vote for her in a heartbeat.

[Cha]

9. Everyone is different, genius..we don't all

have to be like you..oh, and she's lookin' like she's eaten one too many moosechops.

[Bonn1997]

11. If an alien species took over our society and didn't need to eat humans to be healthy but simply

liked how we humans tasted, we'd consider it immoral--even evil--for them to eat us.

[Ignis]

66. That's frighteningly close to a Shaw quotation:

"If a group of beings from another planet were to land on Earth--beings who considered themselves as superior to you as you feel yourself to be to other animals--would you concede them the rights over you that you assume over other animals?"

-- George Bernard Shaw

:hi:

[Bonn1997]

70. Wow! I had no idea. I like mine more though! :-)

[krispos42]

130. No, but I don't think it would matter

Setting aside that animals are not self-aware, if they're interstellar we don't have a choice but to submit. If we don't, they'll drop a dinosaur-killer on us and take us anyway.

[Ignis]

133. So might makes right?

Well, fair enough, everyone has his/her own ethical code. :shrug:

Also, the past decade of research into the behavior of chimps, dolphins, elephants, parrots, etc. would seem to at least call into question the blanket assertion that "animals are not self-aware."

But frankly, I think we only have to fear a "dinosaur-killer" (:thumbsup: :rofl:) if the aliens in question like their homo sapiens cooked.

[superduperfarleft]

134. I know, I facepalmed at that one as well. n/t

[Vidar]

132. "How to Serve Man. .. .It's a cookbook!"

[Ignis]

136. Yessssssssssss...

And did you know you can buy your very own toy Kanamit alien?

[derby378]

143. No fair! You didn't provide a link!

:grr:

[Ignis]

151. They're no longer being made.

They're ridiculously hard to get a hold of, those dolls. They originally sold for around $30, but it's tough to find one used for less than $150, if you can find it at all.

http://www.entertainmentearth.com/item_archive/items/Twilight_Zone_To_Serve_Man_12inch_Figure.asp

Oh, here's one on Amazon for $200+. Ugh.
http://www.amazon.com/Kanamit-14-inch-Figure-Twilight-Zone/dp/B0006JGHN4

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[usregimechange]

13. Um, Sarah, people are made of meat as well

[slackmaster]

157. Yes indeed, and here is a video version of a great short story about just that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFZTAOb7IE

[StarfarerBill]

16. So I guess they really will be serving Levi for Thanksgiving...:P

As a vegetarian, I can say in all sincerity, "Sarah, go Beck yourself."

[wtbymark]

17. and this person graduated from high school????? really?!?!?!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

19. I'm not a vegan by any means, but...

....that is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Good lord, woman.

[Berry Cool]

20. I bet that's a fake quote.

It's just too obvious.

[Kali]

21. oh ha ha

that was funny the first 500 times I heard it (and confess said it too) but um, that was like 10 or 15 years ago.

I'm sure the base still finds it amusing though.

[treestar]

22. That is 20 kinds of dumb

:rofl:

[Cartoonist]

23. Actually, Sarah is close to the truth.

I don't believe in god. Nature, during millions of years of evolution, made some species vegetarian, some carnivores, and some omnivores. Humans are omnivores. Vegans are freaks of nature. We'll have to wait a few thousand years to see if that is good or bad.

[yewberry]

29. Vegans are freaks of nature?

Well, seeing as this is going to be deleted anyway, shove it.

[flvegan]

35. He's agreeing with Palin.

What to expect from his likes to begin with?

:shrug:

[prolesunited]

41. You're a freak of nature

What an idiotic response

[yewberry]

49. Okay.

Thanks, I guess.

[Ignis]

63. Hopefully just a misplaced reply.

But you never know on DU these days. :shrug:

[prolesunited]

71. My bad

I screwed up. I'm for vegans. Sorry

[yewberry]

85. 'Salright.

We're for you, too.

[Cartoonist]

68. Jeez Louise

I guess vegans don't have a sense of humor either. And no, I do not agree with Sarah. And obviously none of you understood my remarks.

Humans are, by nature, omnivores. That means they need a diet of different foods to keep their bodies working in proper order. Vegans are acting in direct opposition to their nature by eliminating meat protiens from their diets. This may or may not have unintended consequences for the worst. It will take hundreds, if not thousands of years for it to sort itself out.

[flvegan]

74. Ignorant. n/t

[Ignis]

86. If no one understands your remarks, you have two options:

1. Find readers who are not woefully undeserving of your rarefied wisdom, or
2. Write better.

[Batgirl]

92. But maybe some of us just lack the proper scientifical mindset

that would enable us to grasp the factual statements regarding the "meat protiens"

[Ignis]

93. That requires a very scientificous answer that you wouldn't comprehandle.

The meat protien originatles from a frantabulous mammalian that is collonially known as the Supermarket. It has five leggy appendices, and ambulances with a locomotivory gate. Its only porpoise is to pro-deuce happy meat protiens for hungry humanitarians like us.

:crazy:

[yewberry]

87. Can you point to the humor in your post?

I must have missed it.

And just so that you're aware, this human doesn't need meat or animal protein to keep her body in proper working order, and it certainly won't take hundreds or thousands of years to figure that out.

But thanks for the name-calling thing. We humorless vegan freaks of nature so love that.

[Ignis]

156. Perhaps it's a regional dialect.

I'm going to experiment by walking up to random strangers, calling them "freaks of nature," and recording their responses.

I regret that I have only two eyes to be blackened in the name of science. :patriot:

[Codeine]

98. There is no such thing as a "meat protein."

Just proteins, made up of amino acids, all available in plant matter with little to no special effort to find.

[paulsby]

101. you are right

if we evolved to eat only plant life, then there wouldn't be certain nutrients that are difficult if not near impossible to get sufficent quantities from a vegan diet. and unless one resorts to supplements, etc. it's pretty clear that having to precisely engineer a diet in order to get the basic substrates of life is pretty clear evidence that we evolved as omnivores. cites available upon request. i totally respect veganism, as a moral stand. but from a science/nutrition standpoint, when they claim it's HEALTHIER, that's another story.

[flvegan]

102. Really?

Then you don't "get" nutrition.

[paulsby]

105. apparently, you don't

like i said, cites available upon request.

there are many essential nutrients that one has to PLAN one's vegan diet in order to get enough of. otoh, an omnivorous diet doesn't have to be planned, especially if one is eating animals that aren't farm raised, but that feed on their natural diet.

for example, cows that are grass fed have a much better EFA profile than cows that are grain fed. and game meat is phenomenally healthy and low fat.

i like elk, myself

[flvegan]

106. Oh, I assure you that I do.

I don't have to PLAN much of anything.

Back to school with you.

[paulsby]

108. the science disagrees

but don't let that get in the way of yer prejudices.

men evolved as omnivores.

i respect veganism as a moral stance. but it is clearly very unnatural and is certainly not optimal for performance

[flvegan]

110. Omnivores include mammals that are largely herbivores.

There's some science for you.

Performance. Is this where you start to blather on as you did in that other thread about how you're this epic trainer and competition athlete? If so, spare me YOUR prejudices. Espousing the dieting down for competition one day, then preaching health another? Yeah, shredding is the best thing to do for the body. Obviously, you practice the healthy lifestyle you preach.

Tell you what. If you think veganism can't be optimal for performance, I'll meet you at the fucking gym.

[paulsby]

112. i'm not saying one can't do quite well

LARGELY herbivore. i am saying being a pure herbivore, iow a vegan, is unnatural, and it is only because various foods are supplemented with (for example) b12, etc. that they are very difficult to get in a pure vegan diet, but not that difficult if you are eating store bought, adulterated foods

also, you obviously can't read. i never said i was an epic trainer.

i also explained numerous times that i am not a bber, i am a strength athlete. i have never in my life gotten SHREDDED. that's bbing. bbing is about appearance. i have great respect for bbing. strength sports are about performance.

hth

fwiw, i have posted numerous cites in my other post, reinforcing the unnaturalness of eliminating animal products from one's diet.

since you apparently can't read, and make false assumptions based on your prejudices, i am not very confident that they will help you, but after all... hope is the thing with feathers. and it's quite tasty

in this day and age, especially with excellent protein powders etc. it's quite easy to get great performance out of a vegetarian diet. heck, eggs are an incredible food. vegan diet? not so much.

[flvegan]

114. Yes largely

because science can't register if a mammal is completely vegan (see koalas, for example). You can call it unnatural all you want, exposing yourself to your archaic beliefs and cites. And I don't really care what you compete in. Making weight is 99.9999% of the time unhealthy, but then, I've met hypocrites before. Didn't you say you had to drop 12 pounds in 3 or 5 days? For a strength athlete, that's a significant % most of the time.

"vegan diet? not so much." again exposing yourself to your lack of continuing education.

Back to school with you. Seriously.

[paulsby]

115. no animal i am aware of

is vegan. they are herbivores. it's not the same thing, although it's similar.

these are not archaic beliefs and cites. they are modern science.

for example, b12.

b12 is simply not present in the plant kingdom.

it occurs ONLY in animal products.

period. the reason that vegans often (but certainly not always) get enough b12 is because they eat enriched foods.

i never said making weight is healthy btw. it most definitely is not. i never said nor implied it was. here's a hint for you. sports performance and health are only loosely correlated. is running a marathon healthy? in many ways it isn't.

sports involve risk taking. i've been off work 4 months due to a sports injury. i wouldn't even CONSIDER competing if i didn't have bitchen insurance, because i know that if i get injured (and sooner or later it;s going to happen), i'll be covered. if i was interested in health, i would not train like i do. don't get me wrong, it is healthy, but not as healthy as a program designed for health vs. performance, and with much higher risk of injury.

it's like downhill skiing. is that a healthy form of exercise? sure. but it's also risky and you will get injured, and there are far healthier ways to build up the same muscles you build via downhill skiing with much less risk

when you drop 12 lbs, you are dropping mostly water. this allows a fast drop, and also one that doesn't result in catabolism. i know how to monitor my electrolytes and keep them balanced while dropping weight for contests. but is it HEALTHY? of course not

again, you keep making up silly strawmen, fail to understand BASIC nutrition, etc.

get some understanding.

and address b12

[flvegan]

117. Sigh.

B12 is "created" by bacteria. Animals eat it, and folks draw from that. Sooooo...technically, it's a supplement drawn from production outside the source, just as it would be for a vegan eating nutritional yeast or something. Meat being "enriched" so to speak. Want to try again?

Sports performance and health CAN be more than loosely "correlated." By not eating meat, even. That knowledge is the difference between you and I, I guess. It's an actual understanding of nutrition. Your fail.

[paulsby]

118. you are still wrong. my source, a vegan site lol

yeast doesn't contain b12, UNLESS it's SUPPLEMENTED with it.

which again, reinforces my point

your ignorance is astounding. of course you won't admit you are wrong.

but you mentioned yeast. and you were wrong

again. see: enrichment, which was my point

i'll say it again. it's relatively easy for vegans in modern society to get decent diets because there are so many enriched foods, that are supplemented with things that are NOT naturally present in vegan sources in nature.

hth

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources
Brewer's and nutritional yeasts do not contain B12 unless they are fortified with it. At least two vegan B12-fortified yeasts are currently on the market: Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula and Twinlab Natural Nutritional Yeast (verified to be fortified with B12 via personal communication with Twinlab June 3, 2003). Unfortunately, there are some drawbacks to relying solely on B12-fortified nutritional yeast for B12:

•Nutritional yeast often comes from bins in health food stores. If not careful, it would be easy for a store employee to order the wrong nutritional yeast out of the distributor catalogs which often list many yeasts. It would also be easy to accidentally put the wrong yeast into the Vegetarian Support Formula bin.
•B12 is light sensitive. Nutritional yeast is likely to be exposed to the light because it is often stored in clear bins or plastic bags.
•At least one vegan who thought he was getting B12 from nutritional yeast developed B12 deficiency symptoms that cleared up upon taking a B12 supplement.
If you are trying to use Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula for B12, make sure you are actually getting what you think. It is also best to keep it in the refrigerator or freezer, out of the light

[flvegan]

120. I apologize for not including the brand in my haste.

I usually have this discussion with intelligent and open-minded folks, and not with clueless idiots.

Thanks for proving my point, though.

[paulsby]

121. you are still wrong and not admitting it

i said that b12 was not present in plant sources UNLESS supplemented, and you spouted yeast.

sorry, but yeast products only have b12 if they are supplemented with it.

so, why can't you just admit you were wrong about b12?

you did not cite foods that were natural sources of B12 and were vegan.

i already explained to you that it is much easier for people to do vegan diets in modern society, because commercial producers SUPPLEMENT foods with essential nutrients.

are you still not understanding this?

you can slink away, you can evade, or you can simply admit you were wrong about b12.

and fwiw, b12 is but ONE nutrient. there are other reasons that vegan diets are clearly not the kind of diets we evolved to eat. but b12 is ONE example.

and you still haven't demonstrated intellectual honesty about it.

[flvegan]

123. It's not present in animal sources either unless supplemented with it

via an animal eating it. You know, much like a human animal eating it.

But again, thank you for proving my point about a vegan diet. You've been such a good little helper.

[paulsby]

129. way to be intellectually dishonest

an animal eating a b12 source is not a company supplementing it

you are just too immature to simply say you were wrong.

i can go into nature and eat any # of animal products and get some b12.

you can't do that with a NON-animal product. thus, the only way it appears in a vegan diet is for it to be artificially introduced.

sorry, but these posts just prove you are too childish to simply say "my bad"

that reflects awfully on you.

i said several times that there were necessary nutrients that could not be obtained in a vegan diet UNLESS they were supplemented.

you claimed that was false, and you are wrong

sorry

being wrong is minor. being intellectually dishonest is major.

[Ignis]

142. You have the patience of a saint.

I think I'm just going to start redirecting armchair nutritionists here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=231x13102

[Bonn1997]

192. This quote will help you understand certain people's behavior

“Most people adopt a personal philosophy that amounts to little more than a rationalization of all the things they want to be doing anyway.” –Jed Gillen

[deaniac21]

187. Oh, my heart is racing. A manly man. A true keyboard warrior!

[Bonn1997]

107. I request the cites! All I've seen is evidence to the contrary

[paulsby]

111. ok. cites here

“Position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada: Vegetarian diets”. Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 2003, 06

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Rosell MS: “Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets” Proceedings of the Nutrition Society, 2006, 65:35-41.

plenty more if requested.

look at, for example, vitamin b12

vitamin b12 is NECESSARY (iow you have to have it) . plant foods are only a source of b12 if they are contaminated with microorganisms

vitamin b12 deficiency can result in anemia and even death

it is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT IN PREGNANT WOMEN.

also,

Institute of Medicine, Food and Nutrition Board: Dietary Reference Intakes for Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B-6, Folate, Vitamin B-12, Pantothenic Acid, Biotin, and Choline. Washington, DC: National Academy press, 1998.

Herbert V. Vitamin B12: Plant sources, requirements, and assay. Am j clin nutr 1988;48:852-858.

let me be clear. if one is eating a vegan diet in modern society, it's not an issue. why? because various foods, especially those targeted to vegans (but also many common garden variety cereals, breads, etc) are FORTIFIED with various nutrients.

that's great. but it reinforces the point

a vegan diet, unless carefully planned, NEEDS supplements added to basic foods in order to sustain life. for those shopping at a grocery store, it's not a big deal. but in nature, where added supplements weren't available, it would be dangerous

man evolved as an omnivore. if we were meant to (not trying to anthropomorphosize nature, but you get my point) eat solely plant life, then there wouldn't be numerous essential nutrients that are rare, and some that are nonexistent in most of the plant kingdom

[Bonn1997]

131. Here is the first sentence in your first source

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases."

Also,
"Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12778049

As to your last point: There is nothing in veganism that rules out taking a supplement. Many non-vegan foods are supplemented and many non-vegans take daily multi-vitamins actually. You could easily use your reasoning to say that we were not "meant" to eat most meats because we need human made weapons or tools to capture and kill the animal and then must cook the meat. (If we were meant to eat meat, surely we'd be able to just like wolves or any other animal in nature. For convenience, we might not do that in the modern world but surely we'd be capable of it.) Also, what we were meant to do is irrelevant, as it has nothing to do with morality or with what promotes optimal functioning anyway: Info on the nature fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

[Ignis]

158. Someone reposted my ADA study link? I'm touched.

It's great to see the information getting out there, even when people are unwilling to see the scientific data staring them in the face.

But you can't argue with Four Food Group Fundamentalists. At best, they'll just tell you that you'll die unless you eat all the essential amino acids in a single serving at every meal. :eyes:

[paulsby]

161. you are missing my point

first of all, i am not critical of VEGETARIAN diets, i am critical of VEGAN diets. there is a huge difference. lacto-ovo vegetarians can easily get more than enough EAA's, EFA's, etc. the issue i have is with vegan diets. a perfect example is that b12 literally DOES NOT EXIST in the plant kingdom. Modern vegans generally get it from fortified foods, in other words, corporations ADD these essential nutrients to foodstuffs that normally would not have them e.g. bread, yeast, etc. This supports my point that vegan diets are very unnatural, suboptimal and clearly not the kind of diet we evolved to eat, as opposed to , say a mediterranean type diet rich in EAA's, EFA's, lots of fresh greens, etc. It should be a clue to people that a diet that is not merely deficient, but that doesn't have ANY of certain essential nutrients, is not the way we are evolved to eat (or supposed to eat if you want to anthropomorphize it.). Think about it. If vegan diets fit our bodies, why do companies need to ADD nutrients to foods in order that vegans can literally live, cause they can't live without them. This goes double for adults who feed their kids vegan diets. i respect vegans, but i look down on those that feed their kids vegan diets, in the same way i look down at parents that feed their kids sugar laden overprocessed crap. b12 is but ONE essential element of diet that is not present in a (non supplemented) vegan diet.

[Bonn1997]

162. Here is the simplest explanation:

"B12 is not an argument against the "naturalness" of vegan diets, because:

1. Humans, as plant eaters, would naturally ingest B12-producing micro-organisms by eating unwashed and naturally grown fruits and vegetables. However, in the sanitised modern world where vegetables are sprayed, washed, sterilised, transported, stored etc, the poor little mites are all gone by the time we eat it. Therefore the lack of B12 is not caused by the plant-based diet, but rather, by modern methods of prdoucing food."
http://www.vegetarianaction.org.au/Living/VLB12.htm

You missed the point of my point and simply repeated yours anyway, though: What's "natural" is irrelevant anyway, as it's often suboptimal in effectiveness, morality, or both. Please read about the nature fallacy. Before arguing against the point above on B12 in unwashed plants and fruits, please explain why it even matters whether or not something is "natural."

[paulsby]

176. more on veganism

first of all, the microorganisms that have b12 are part of the ANIMAL kingdom, not the plant kingdom. i repeat. b12 does not exist in nature except in animals. period. if it's ok to eat insects (this is where animals such as rabbits get their b12), then why not eat clams, oysters, etc? you are already breaking veganism. so, like it or not, if you are eating them, you aint eating plants. as for the "natural" argument, that is relevant because it's VEGANS who claim (wrongly) that a vegan diet is more natural than a meat eating diet, that our bodies aren't designed to eat meat etc. that's a common them amongst vegans. as for b12, it is ONE element that is lacking from a non-fortified vegan diet, hardly an exhaustive list. let me give you another example. creatine. yes... creatine. creatine is now available as a supplement, but has always been available in meats. that's where we get it. salmon, tuna, beef, etc. i am not the one who creates the nature fallacy, btw. it is vegans who claim that vegan diets are the way we are DESIGNED to eat, which is complete hogwash. i can respect veganism as a moral choice. as a intelligent, science based choice for better nutrition, otoh, it's ridiculous. veganism, like many religions, inspires its followers to ignore evidence contrary to their belief system, and often to blindly follow. you can see this attitude, for example, in the way some vegans go off the handle (i got a response of "fuck you" which is unusual even for du) if anybody DARES criticize the efficacy of their religion.

[Bonn1997]

186. I have never heard a vegan say those things. I would say that there is nothing unnatural about a

human eating meat so long as the human kills the animal with their hands or other objects found in nature (like a tree branch) and then either eats it raw or cooks it with fire. (Nature has nothing to do with morality, though.) Let me fine tune my previous question and ask it again: Among those who admit that meat can be eaten "naturally" (thereby restricting the question to those to whom the rationale you gave for the importance of the nature argument does not apply), why should it matter whether or not veganism is natural?

Also, you failed to address the point on Vitamin B12 existing in nature in plant-based diets and simply being removed by the unnatural sanitizing the food industry does to vegetables. You just repeated your original misguided claim instead.

[yewberry]

190. The reason you got that

"fuck you" response is that you posted "vegans suck."

Of course, the "fuck you" remark was deleted, but it's fine for you to post that we suck and that veganism is ridiculous and a religion.

[Ignis]

191. Selective enforcement: Vegans are fair game on DU. (nt)

[Bonn1997]

193. That's it? You started with the broad generalization that veganism is unnatural based on the

mistaken belief that B12 wasn't available to vegan diets in nature. Then when someone explains how it was actually available, you just disappear? Maybe with a little luck it's because you've decided to become a vegan now that you know it is natural and you've been too busy reading about veganism to find time to reply here!

[paulsby]

178. more on veganism

first of all, the microorganisms that have b12 are part of the ANIMAL kingdom, not the plant kingdom. i repeat. b12 does not exist in nature except in animals. period. if it's ok to eat insects (this is where animals such as rabbits get their b12), then why not eat clams, oysters, etc? you are already breaking veganism. so, like it or not, if you are eating them, you aint eating plants. as for the "natural" argument, that is relevant because it's VEGANS who claim (wrongly) that a vegan diet is more natural than a meat eating diet, that our bodies aren't designed to eat meat etc. that's a common them amongst vegans. as for b12, it is ONE element that is lacking from a non-fortified vegan diet, hardly an exhaustive list. let me give you another example. creatine. yes... creatine. creatine is now available as a supplement, but has always been available in meats. that's where we get it. salmon, tuna, beef, etc. i am not the one who creates the nature fallacy, btw. it is vegans who claim that vegan diets are the way we are DESIGNED to eat, which is complete hogwash. i can respect veganism as a moral choice. as a intelligent, science based choice for better nutrition, otoh, it's ridiculous. veganism, like many religions, inspires its followers to ignore evidence contrary to their belief system, and often to blindly follow. you can see this attitude, for example, in the way some vegans go off the handle (i got a response of "fuck you" which is unusual even for du) if anybody DARES criticize the efficacy of their religion.

[Cetacea]

104. Meat proteins that come from animals that are vegan.

Protein is protein.

[BoneDaddy]

150. Many people in here

do not have a sense of humor. It has become a vestigal experience that has been replaced by a sense of outrage, superiority and the same rigid fundamentalist attitude that they claim to fight.

[Ignis]

153. Perhaps you can help those less fortunate, then?

Because several people have asked that poster to explain the humor in the following statements:

1. I don't believe in god.
2. Nature, during millions of years of evolution, made some species vegetarian, some carnivores, and some omnivores.
3. Humans are omnivores.
4. Vegans are freaks of nature.
5. We'll have to wait a few thousand years to see if that is good or bad.

I've helpfully numbered the individual sentences, so you can explain which are funny, and in what way.

Thanks! :hi:

[BoneDaddy]

169. Typically

they are responses to the incredible judgements about people who choose to eat meat from anything such as calling them immoral to murderers.

[Ignis]

174. Which sentences? And how is that funny? (nt)

[yewberry]

189. Care to point to those

"incredible judgments about people who choose to eat meat" that led to all vegans being declared freaks of nature and to you defending that swipe?

[yewberry]

159. Many people in here,

when they lack anything of substance to add, choose to insult people for no apparent reason, even when those people are doing nothing other than responding to being called names.

Imagine that!

[BoneDaddy]

170. That is true too

in fact both are true.

[Codeine]

38. Freaks of nature?

Seriously, fuck you.

[Bonn1997]

56. There's nothing "unnatural" about veganism...

Non-meat eating humans have been around for as long as recorded history. Many cultures have gone thousands of years on vegetarian diets. Breeding cows just to kill and eat them is a lot less natural than anything vegans do. You're also embracing the "nature fallacy": the idea that what is "natural" is best or right. If you really believed that in any context other than food eating, you'd advocate for banning vaccinations, banning all pills, banning all forms of travel other than by foot (well maybe by horse would be OK), and basically entirely changing the daily lives of humans. You may not have thought much about how "unnatural" the life you are leading (like the rest of us) is.

[Codeine]

77. Holy shit,

all of the ideas you've just described are advanced daily by some of the nuttier contingent of DU.

>banning vaccinations,

I read this all the time.

>banning all pills,

BIG PHARMA!! OHNOEZ!!

>banning all forms of travel other than by foot

Well, some of them will allow us bicycles.

[Bonn1997]

81. well you could add banning the internet, telephone, and even light bulb.

[Cartoonist]

79. In some respects, yes

Every deviation has consequences. But that is what evolution is about. I don't think all medical practices are good. The argument can convincingly be made that we are an overmedicated society, but since many medicines are derived from nature, there is no sense in calling it unnatural. The travel argument is absurd. What the human mind can accomplish is 100% natural.

I won't comment on what vegetarianism has done to the human condition in India.

I never said or implied that veganism is bad, just that it is a departure from our human nature. I regret that my word choice offended.

[Bonn1997]

83. What the human mind can accomplish is 100% natural...Obviously that would include veganism. If it

wasn't human minds that developed veganism, I do not know what it was!
If you look up "nature" or "natural," it will not include things the human mind has created like cares or airplanes or light bulbs. Here's one fairly representative definition (from dictionary.reference.com): Nature refers to "the material world, esp. as surrounding humankind and existing independently of human activities."

Did you know that vegetarians outlive meat eaters? Did you know that vegans on average have fewer nutrient deficiencies than meat eating humans? There's no scientific evidence that we need to eat animals to thrive.

[Ignis]

89. "I won't comment on ... vegetarianism ... in India."

Good. I don't comment on dressmaking, because I don't know the first thing about it.

It is sometimes best to remain silent, so as to leave a doubt. :dunce:

[Ignis]

61. People have been lifelong vegetarians in India for millenia.

Back under your bridge. :spank:

[paulsby]

100. vegans suck

their meat is all stringy

[Name removed]

103. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

197. Vegans are far healthier than you are. Try reading up on the facts

before you post such absurd bullshit.

[NRaleighLiberal]

24. kind of like jessica simpson's "chicken of the sea/tuna" comment in her reality show!

[Fla_Democrat]

27. swish

:eyes:

[krabigirl]

28. I am so embarrassed to be a meat-eater, lmao.

[sharp_stick]

30. I always say

that if God didn't want us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them so yummy.

Meat is Murder... Tasty Tasty Murder. ;-)

[Ignis]

67. Well, it's good to find things on which we agree with Republicans.

I guess. Big, big, big tent.

[Texasgal]

88. HA..ha..ha.

That joke is so freaking old... get some new material. :eyes:

[petronius]

31. What a crappy hostess. If I invite vegans or vegetarians over for dinner

I certainly do more than "whip them up a salad" and lecture them. However, I'm somewhat curious about her ideas of a salad - is it iceberg and preshredded carrots, or does she go the 'open cans and pour together different sorts of beans' route?

[yewberry]

34. Probably Caesar salad.

Nothing like feeding a vegan fish paste, cheese, and raw egg!

[DU GrovelBot]

32. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

[bleever]

50. Please don't eat me, Grovelbot!

I'm made of tofu, I swear it!

[yewberry]

33. Remember her parents' bumpersticker?

"Vegetarian: old Indian word for bad hunter."

:eyes:

[TheCowsCameHome]

37. Because vegetables like Palin make people sick.

[Codeine]

40. Is that a real quote?

It's a fucking collection of bumper-sticker slogans tacked together into sentences. What a dumbass.

[cynatnite]

42. Oh, please run for president, Sarah...please, please, please. n/t

[spanone]

44. and there's honest to god talk about her possible 'presidential bid' ? this country is fucked up

[tilsammans]

45. It's like people who have no problem wearing fur . . .

. . . because "the animals are already dead."

:puke:

[Bjorn Against]

46. Ummm Sarah...you do realize that humans are made out of meat too don't you?

[glitch]

48. Oh God, not another "public figure" that sounds like they're straight out of The Onion.

:scared: so sick of the people the cancerate media promotes ad nauseum.

[handmade34]

51. Sarah Palin's God

gave us 'free will' so we could make wise choices about our health and protecting the environment. Along with Joe Lieberman, she is a pimple on the butt of progress...

[RedCappedBandit]

53. Does this mean I can eat people? nt

[1]

54. gotta go with palin on this one. mmmmmthick bacon burgersmmmmm...

[Ignis]

91. So it's salad and a lecture at your house, too?

I fear I must decline your kind dinner invitation, in that case.

I'll just have the salad to go, instead. :hi:

[1]

95. nah, i don't lecture. i'm sure we could whip up something tasty for you...

i'm a whiz in the kitchen!

[Ignis]

127. Oh, you're no fun.

I'm poking fun at your agreement with Palin, because in the article she says she'd give a vegetarian dinner guest a salad and a lecture. What a classy lady, eh?

[1]

138. honestly, i try not to read anything she says. i tried here, but got stopped at thick bacon burgers.

mmmmmthick bacon burgersmmmmm.....

[Ignis]

139. Fair enough.

Palinese will rot your brain. :crazy: It's probably best to avoid her languification all together.

[NoSheep]

55. That's becasue she's a gard darned real American!

[Quantess]

57. If God didn't want us to be cannibals

how come He made humans out of meat?

Really, the same logic applies.

[Toucano]

59. That's something Homer Simson would say.

And we would all laugh at how stupid he is.

This woman is a joke.

[NoSheep]

94. But Homer's creator was a genius!

[Nyquil Man]

60. I want to believe these excerpts aren't real, if only to believe that people are not this stupid. nt

[nickinSTL]

64. uh, yeah well...

I'm not a vegan, and I can't eat meat because of a medical condition.

Don't miss it a bit.

I think she's an @$$hole, though. Pushing your carnivorousness on those who choose, for whatever reasons, not to eat animals, is being an @$$hole. IMO.

I much prefer wildlife out in the wild, in some cases eating each other, rather than on the plate of someone who could find other sources of meat.

[gleaner]

65. This is a dong, dong, ....

Hit yourself on the side of the head kind of Palin thing.:wtf: An easy answer would be that birds are made of meat but very few of them eat meat. Only the Raptors, Owls, Ravens and Crows. Ravens and Crows tend to favor things like lizards and carrion, although we had some that used to bring taco shells to soak in our birdbath.

Also people are omnivores. They eat a variety of different things from fruit to veggies to meat and other interesting things that kept them from starvation over the years. There is no one way to eat. If people want to eat vegetables they can do it.

Palin is a dumb ass. That is one of the few words I can actually type in a public place to describe her.

Yes, people can eat people and in some cultures it used to be considered an honor to your ancestors if you ate their brains when they died. Unfortunately that often led to a degenerative neurological disease called Kuru. Here's the link which describes it, if you're curious and have a sudden desire to eat your ancestors. https://health.google.com/health/ref/Kuru

In cultures where it is not a form of ancestor worship or a local custom, eating people is called cannibalism and is generally frowned on and the activity is limited to serial killers who have other unusual habits anyway.

[Arkana]

69. *WHAM*

My head just hit my desk in exasperation.

I give vegans just as much shit as other omnivores, and even I think she's being completely fucking stupid.

[Mari333]

73. She is a murderous twit, isnt she (I changed it to twit by the way)

I find it delicious that someday that sorry old bat will be eaten by bacteria and worms. Karma.

[bermudat]

76. OMG!

No one told me her memoir was a satirical comedy?

[Codeine]

78. Her tribal name is Speaks in T-Shirts. nt

[Batgirl]

82. Just more dial-a-cliche prose stylings from dear Sarah

The funny part is that people who utter such shopworn phrases as "animals are made out of meat" invariably seem to be convinced of their own originality and hilariousness - which is I guess understandable in her case

[UTUSN]

84. *I* will do the K&R #5 for this!1 n/t

[MisterP]

90. "if you liked this..."

http://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Cliches-James-Rogers/dp/0345338146/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258428268&sr=8-1

[Rage for Order]

96. It's a valid question

Also, why did he make them so damn tasty???

[JanMichael]

99. Humans, dogs and cats, are made of meat.

Eat them you fucking psychos.

EDIT: Cows are vegetarians (except when we feed them the remains of their comrades)...No irony there.

[johnaries]

113. "medium well-done steak"? She's not a carnivore. She eats boot leather.

It's ok to sear the outside of a steak to hold the juices in. And, yes, the smoke from the fat is what gives a good steak it's flavor. But by the time the steak gets to medium, there are no juices. The more you cook a steak, the tougher it gets. By the time it gets to medium well - it's so tough it's time to make it into boots or a jacket. It ain't fit to eat.

And, I'm sorry, you can sing the praises of Gore-Tek all you want but nothing matches a good pair of leather boots loving cleaned with saddle-soap and carefully softened and waterproofed with lanolin.

Just sayin'

[Mixopterus]

140. No kidding

A steak is simply not a steak unless it's at least medium rare, although I do prefer a Chicago rare/medium-rare so I can get the best of both worlds.

[beac]

116. If Gawd didn't want us to make fun of Sarah Palin, how come he made her out of

STUPID???

In a break from what is apparently an endless stream of "it's not MY fault" whining, the funniest thing she can come up with is this tired old clunker of a bumper sticker?

Pathetic.

[Bonn1997]

163. "made her out of STUPID"! Just hilarious!

[Ichingcarpenter]

119. What's sad is that she smarter than most of the population

in her 'real america' base areas.

[Ichingcarpenter]

147. And the replies on this thread ...... prove it.

Just be conscious on your meat eating environmentally,
its still possible to eat meat but not at a burger king habit.

Quality of life not quantity of life.

[liquid diamond]

124. This is why I don't want her to go away.

Love her or hate her, Palin is entertaining.

[Amonester]

128. Tina Fey! Tina Fey!

We Want Tina! :party:

She'll teach her lesson #2 if she decides to run! :rofl:

[Enrique]

125. I've never heard a vegan say God doesn't want us to eat meat

maybe that's what the vegans in Alaska say. :shrug:

[bamacrat]

126. Carnivore? So what are mashed potatoes...vegetables the word is Omnivore dumbass.

She is the biggest douche bag I have ever seen. I love meat too but damn.

[superduperfarleft]

137. Hopefully the heart attack she's setting herself up for will remove her from the gene pool

before she breeds again.

[KansDem]

141. She's just miffed because it's not as much fun to shoot soybeans from a helicopter

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_eiHlYjYd0_8/SOgFTVjUczI/AAAAAAAABoY/xRSJ2TJZ9Oc/s200/Columbus,+OH+helicopter.jpg
Let's go bag us some soybeans!!!

[Ignis]

154. Nah, Palin would use dragnet fishing, instead.

"Oh look, a small patch of soybeans in the middle of that old growth forest! Get the dragnet and rip it all down! Ahhh, I loves me some nature!"

[undeterred]

145. Fetuses are made of meat.

I'm just sayin'.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

148. And they taste like chicken. nt

[rucky]

149. She's recycling old jokes.

that is all.

[annabanana]

164. check check. . Flanders & Swann

From "The Reluctant Cannibal"

But people have always eaten people,
What else is there to eat?
If the Juju had meant us not to eat people,
He wouldn't have made us of meat!

Flanders: Well... I... I never heard a more ridiculous idea in all my born days. To think that a son of mine should grow up to be a sissy - me, chief assistant to the assistant chief! I suppose you realise, son, if this was to get around, we might never get self-Government.

Swann: I won't eat people!

Flanders: Have you been talking to one of your mothers again? You're not getting to be one of these cranks who think that eating people is cruel, are you? Seeing the man sitting in the pot and you think he's suffering. Oh, it's not like that at all. Why, he's just had an invigourating chase through the forest, sitting there in the nice warm water with all the carrots and dumplings and things, he's thinking, "Oh, the pleasure and happiness I'm going to give to a heap of people". That man in the pot there, he enjoys it!

Swann: Eating people is wrong!

Flanders: Look son, son, I admire your sincerity. Always be sincere... whether you mean it or not. But you're young, you're young, when you're young you think you can change the whole world overnight, even eating people - I know, I've been young myself. Take it from your old Dad, you've just got to learnt to take the world as it is.

Swann: I won't let another man pass my lips!

Flanders: I know why you say "Don't eat people", because you are a coward, Francis, that's your trouble. Yes, a yellow-livered coward. You wouldn't mind eating people if you weren't afraid of ending up in the pot yourself - how despicable! If you go on like this you're liable to get ME into hot water.


Going around saying "Don't eat people",
That's the way to make people hate'ya.
We always have eaten people, always will eat people,
You can't change human nature.

[beac]

171. The F&S lyric that Palin's quip brings to my mind is:

Then a joke (s)he will try as you stifle a sigh

And deny that you've heard it before,

Thinking Oh, Oh what a bore (s)he is, what a thundering thumping bore!






My parents had 'The Bestiary of Flanders & Swann' album when I was growing up. I must have listened to it a thousand times, but hadn't thought of it in years. Thanks for stirring the memories! :hi:

[and-justice-for-all]

155. Fuck you, you stupid wench...nt

[blindpig]

165. What do you expect from someone who doesn't understand

natural selection?

Of course, that could be said of vegans too, either party engages in magical thinking.

[LWolf]

166. People are made of meat, too.

I think Palin would make a tasty meal for some more valuable predators:

[zonkers]

167. Minimzing the unecessary misery of sentient creatures raised for food should be a priority for meat

eaters and vegetarians.

[michreject]

168. WOW!! She said something that I agree with

Who would have thunk it.

[Ignis]

175. Creationism? Salad and a lecture? What? (nt)

[michreject]

183. This part

"If God had not intended for us to eat animals, how come He made them out of meat?"

[Ignis]

184. Ah, Creationist Dominionism then. Gotcha. (nt)

[emsimon33]

179. God also made people out of meat

Does this mean that Palin is a cannibal?

[sakabatou]

181. God made humans out of meat, so why doesn't she eat humans?

As one DUer said.

[thelordofhell]

182. Who knew she was a Total Coello fan??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4O1A-mmBWw

[mb7588a]

185. So she eats eskimos? Ack! nt.

[BlooInBloo]

188. Vegetarians have PETA, we have Blithering Idiot. So it's a draw.

[jpak]

195. If God made brains, how come Sarah never got one?

:evilgrin:

[Lorien]

196. Why hasn't she cooked and consumed her entire family then? nt