Unless we come up with a coherent media strategy to counter the Repuke message machine

[DainBramaged]

I am very fearful we are going to lose seats in the coming election. Our leaders (Reid and Pelosi) are totally ineffective at countering the noise from the RNC and Faux bullshit. We don't have ANYONE even remotely like Frank Luntz, and because of this the Pukes are put out front EVERY DAY shooting their message like fireworks in a black sky, while all we can do is deny and look foolish trying to deny their lies.


I don't care what some of you may think about the high ground, the high ground doesn't win elections, and it's obvious from the health care reform debacle, he who is in charge of the media wins.


We have to take back the media and learn to attack instead of always giving ground. Our lines in the sand are meaningless. Someone on the Left needs to take the proverbial bull by the horns and coordinate OUR message to the media, not the RNC's.

And those of you who unrec without comment, cowards, simply cowards, and YOU are the reason we lose. No guts, just hide behind that mouse.

[timeforpeace]

1. The media is hard on the party in power. It has been ever thus. It's the price of winning elections.

[DainBramaged]

3. The Pukes have been out in front of the message since 1993

You can't have been asleep since then?

[Toots]

23. Yes that is why they beat the Democrats so badly in the last couple of elections

D'Oh...

[DainBramaged]

25. Does it bother you one iota that Gramps and Palin even had a chance?

give me a break.

[Bitwit1234]

9. No way. They are the ones who kept dropping and negative

news about bush and the republicans. You could never ever find any thing bad about him. They treated him like he was god.

[dreamnightwind]

17. Not balanced at all

The media is way harder on Dems than on Repubs. Bush was allowed to literally run this country into the ground. If we hadn't finally gotten a couple of progressive voices on MS-NBC and Comedy Central to expose some of the Bushit and the MSM distortions, they'd have continued to let him slide.

And I don't remember them being very hard on Ronnie RayGun or GHW Bush either. Quite the opposite.

[DainBramaged]

20. How quickly and conveniently, some here forget that point

Bush got a pass for 8 years. Clinton was hounded for 8. John Ensign had an affair and it gets swept under the rug and he continues to serve in the Senate, as do all of the other Repukes this year, and the MSM gives them a free pass as if nothing happened.........And Hannity and the clowns on FAUX are silent while they went after Clinton as if he was a disease.

[spanone]

26. i saw little proof of that during the bu$h* mal-administration

[mdmc]

2. How about that Markos dude from Daily Kos?

Obama should tap him. Obama has the charisma, but he is also the president.
We need someone on the outside that Obama can get his words out through.

And Howard Dean..

OR

OBEY BERNIE SANDERS! (if the dems followed his lead, we would be gold.)

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Atticus]

5. I wish I could rec this twice, once for the substance of the post, and once for the italicized

last line. Those who unrec without comment lack both character and courage.

(And, those who throw spittin' shittin' hissy fits for no apparent reason should probably get back on their meds.)

[JNelson6563]

6. This has been the case for many years.

For the life of me I don't understand why our side can't get their shit together on this.

Julie

[treestar]

7. But if that were such a problem, we would not have won this time

People aren't sponges. Only a few idiots believe everything they are told to believe. Just because something is on teevee doesn't make it true. And opinion is all it is, so when people don't agree they in fact get annoyed. Only a few are so brain dead that they simply adopt an opinion because Glen Beck tells them to.

[DainBramaged]

12. We have been OUT of power since 1994

we had a brief respite in '06 when we took the House, but the Rich-wing STILL blocked the Senate and harry Reid didn't do SQUAT to stop the RNC machine, to this DAY. If you call ONE YEAR a success, I'll change my name to Annabelle.

[treestar]

13. Well Annabelle, how did we win this last election?

With the right wing media machines against us? Answer: because not everyone obeys the right wing media machine or takes it seriously.

[DainBramaged]

16. We won the last election because YOUTH voted for once

for this thing called hope which is fading fast for us cynical old bastards who are tired of dog and pony shows.

[treestar]

22. In the next election there will be two more years worth of youth

all that exuberance and hope! Let it work on you, Annabelle.

[DainBramaged]

24. Where were they in NJ and Virginia when we needed them this year?

they were playing with their Xbox. They will sit out 2010 because there is no one 'cool' running.

[Bigmack]

27. Two more years of youth unemployment, too! nt

[treestar]

31. They'll be 18-22

In college and not worried yet! The POTUS will get them going. Chin up, people! This is no way to start the new year!

[Bigmack]

32. Holy shit.... college?...

Where have you been? College is superexpensive, and mom and dad can't help much anymore, for a lot of kids. Tuition is going up like a rocket, and part-time burger-flipping jobs are being taken by the older "kids" (25-55).

Anyway, I was talking about the "youths" from about 18-35 who are being clobbered in the job market. Jest when they are getting their careers on track, they get laid off.

I see it this way.... no jobs... no younger vote. No younger vote... the Repubs win.

My chin is up, just not in the sand.

[dreamnightwind]

18. Economic collapse

McCain/Palin were AHEAD in the polls when the financial collapse happened. McCain was more of the same Bush policies, and seriously bungled how to "play" the collapse.

2008 was a perfect storm of dire circumstance, a charismatic Dem candidate, epic failure by the Repubs both while governing and while campaigning, and a never-before-seen black and youth vote that came out in droves.

Even with all of that, MSM spin, and presenting both sides of an argument as "false equivalents" even when one side is clearly ridiculous, kept McCain/Palin in the game. Don't count on these circumstances again, it won't happen.

We won in SPITE of the MSM.

And let's not forget how the MSM refused to take Kucinich seriously, worked to marginalize him as a nut because he'd seen a UFO, largely ignored his policy proposals even though his were the only ones that truly addressed the problems we were facing. If the MSM and their corporate masters had wanted for Dennis to be a serious candidate he would have been.

[treestar]

21. I read some polls to the effect the majority agrees with Dennis

So you're right, it's the media that undermines that. And I am corrected that people are generally dumb enough to let the media misguide them away from the candidate they agree with most.

So you're saying a bad economy just gets the other side in? That could be so. Though IMO Palin was likely enough to sink McOld, and if the economy had still been good, she would have been a liability.

And in 2010 the media will make the entire economy the Democrats' responsibility if it is bad, but won't give them credit if it is improving.

[dreamnightwind]

37. Yes MSM and right-wing lies are effective

"And I am corrected that people are generally dumb enough to let the media misguide them away from the candidate they agree with most."

Thank you, I think this was my main point which led me to post a response. It's dangerous for our side to underestimate the effect of the right wing noise machine. Many many many of our citizens are politically naive and respond to the most transparent manipulation.

Case in point is a recent poll on which party you'd most likely support in a hypothetical congressional race: a Dem or a Repub. Well, I forget the exact numbers, but the Repubs were ahead. That's insane, Repubs have absolutely nothing to offer the average American, but you wouldn't get that message from the MSM, quite the opposite.

And this, I think, is what the OP was all about, that we need a way to counter this.

[prestonPjr21]

8. David and Goliath seems like the theme!

We know that most of the power and money is in the hands of the far-out right.So,how can we get something rolling when it comes to the big media? Media is gossip, basically right. We need to stand up for our beliefs and be our own media. Voice our opinions in public, even if it is just a casual conversation. I know,you will meet people who will say that our government is not a topic to discuss. Bull! In our times right know this is very important, if someone says they don't want to talk or hear about it. I am turning up the mouth amps, loud and clear. This needs to be spoken out for all ears to hear! The righties want me to think I am defeated, but the little guy ALWAYS wins. Hand me my slingshot and get out of my way!

[FLAprogressive]

10. Dems will lose and continue losing if they don't act like Democrats.

[defendandprotect]

15. That's the truth -- !!! But it's also the problem . .. more corporate-Dems than real Dems now !!!

That's what co-opting the Democratic Party has been all about over these 40 something years!!

[HughMoran]

11. The Republicans always shoot their wad too early

When the time comes, the Dems will be swinging full force.

[defendandprotect]

14. IMO, Pelosi and Reid are DLC and spend more time fighting liberals/progressives than the right!!

[dreamnightwind]

19. Agreed

Pelosi less so IMHO, but I agree with your point. The earlier post that suggested using Dean, Markos, and I forget who else was way off-base since the Obama administration and its policies are to the right (or the "corporate", whatever direction that is) of these people as is most of congressional leadership.

The OP voices a concern I share, and one that needs to be addressed. It would be easier if the policies were more removed from corporate goals. It's tricky to get your message out when your policies are about not fully revealing your goals, trying to play all sides, working within all existing systems (instead of working to CHANGE these systems which is what we thought we were voting for), how do you effectively sell that?

I think the OP wants someone to more aggressively go after the idiocy of the right. Not a bad idea, and this could be done if our leaders wanted to.

My theory is that many of the Dems don't mind the right's crazy attacks too much, and they don't mind that the public buys into it either. It makes it easier for them to serve their corporate masters by crafting a "middle road" that sacrifices progressive reform for right-wing appeasement.

[Bigmack]

28. Dems need to hire Jon Stewart.....

His video clips of the Repubs saying dumb shit should play in ads 24/7.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[rucky]

30. If we're just talking about cable news...

we don't really need to worry that much. If you're one of the 1% of the population that watches it, all the noise could seem pretty overwhelming, but it's just a small slice of the pie and viewership hasn't grown since 2000:

http://www.journalism.org/charts/chart_builder2.php?id=370&ct=col&sort=&dir=&chartback=None&chartgrid=LightGray&labelincr=1&scalemin=Auto&scalemax=Auto&scaleincr=Auto&rot=0&3d=1&depth3d=10&showtitle=0&ran=10166&legendloc=1&scalemin=Auto&scalemax=Auto&scaleincr=Auto&chartsize=Large&chartpalette=Standard&r1=1&r2=1&r3=1&r4=1&r5=1&r6=1&r7=1&r8=1&r9=1&r10=1&c1=1&c2=1&c3=1&c4=1&c5=0&c6=0&c7=0&c8=0&c9=0&c10=0

Folks get residual messages - mostly from reprinting or showing clips on the internet. Looks like Murdoch is putting an end to that by taking clips off of YouTube and going after bloggers that violate copyrights. Seems they're more interested in radicalizing their current viewership - protecting it from scrutiny and keeping their faithful in the echo chamber - rather than expanding their viewer base.

Plus, they're so over-the-top now with the addition of Beck, promoting the Tea Parties, etc - they've relegated themselves to the fringe. They're not growing - in fact much of their viewership will continue to die out - literally:

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/05/05/average-age-of-fox-news-viewer-is-65/

[defendandprotect]

35. It's typical right wing behavior to shut down any outlet for truth getting thru . . .

their lies and myths work as long as they have the megaphone and no one else

can be heard.

But, truth is a huge danger for them because one bit of truth can shatter their

myths instantly.

It's like a large mirror -- if you get close enough to pitch even one pebble of

truth at it, it shatters instantly!

[quiet.american]

33. And here's how DU can help as well -- "don't think of an elephant."

Actually, we do have someone who understands the power of language on our side -- linguist Dr. George Lakoff.

After reading Lakoff's book, 'Don't Think of an Elephant,' which focuses on how to rebut right-wing frames, I often cringe when I see what's usually a first reply to a thread on DU -- usually in response to something positive Democrats are doing, that will read something like this:

'SOCIALISTS!'
'Hey, y'all -- I just got my DEATH PANELS on!"
'Dirty hippies!'
'SOCIALISM!'

Even though yes, it's funny, or spot-on sarcasm (assuming it's not from a professional troll who understands this concept) -- according to Lakoff's analysis and study of the subject, using right -wing phrases, even jokingly, perpetuates and cements the GOP's framing of an issue. In the book, Lakoff uses the example of asking his students at the beginning of a class to "don't think of an elephant," and of course, from that point on, it's impossible for them to not think of an elephant.

He then points out how those on the left unwittingly do their part to keep people thinking of an elephant -- that is, perpetuate GOP talking points by repeating the exact same phrases Republicans use when speaking about whatever the topic is -- I've cringed at seeing this play out in real life --everywhere from the WH, through DU, and even through Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann -- yes, Keith and Rachel are brilliant and funny -- but at times their repeated use of the exact words the GOP is using, while even helpfully providing background graphics featuring the very same words, extends the echo chamber for the right-wing's frame. (To their credit, though, in recent months, they haven't provided this kind of unintentional assist nearly so much as in the past.)

But still, across the blogosphere, it goes on -- people are just not aware of how using the very same GOP-generated words, over and over, allows the GOP's framing of an issue to increase in strength. And yes, sometimes it's impossible to talk about something without using the actual words (I'm just as guilty as anyone of doing a fair amount of this myself), but I try to do it consciously and sparingly, rather than unconsciously and prolifically.

Two more things: I don't quite agree with the OP's verdict that Pelosi and Reid have been ineffective (well, Pelosi in any case -- Reid appears on my screen of life as a blank); Republicans swore at the beginning of the healthcare reform push that it would never, ever get this far, and in spite of every dirty trick under the sun, they've failed. Plus, Democrats did just win two more seats in Congress, and polls indicate that nationally, Democrats come in ahead of Republicans in just about everything (and no, I'm not betting the farm on polls, but it is encouraging.)

Another sign of encouragement is that the White House is actually getting out ahead of right-wing attacks in a much stronger way than Democrats have done in the past (calling out FAUX for what they are; already on the offense against the 'report' the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is producing on the healthcare bill, etc.), and a new WH Communications Director is on the horizon, so I'm hoping that this person will be someone who eats raw Republican for breakfast (so to speak.)

Okay that's it from me.

[dreamnightwind]

38. Excellent post

that was well worth reading, thanks.

[wiggs]

34. Agree. It's a miracle that we did well in 2006 and 2008 in the face of

constant fear mongering, hate, smearing, misinformation, polarization, etc.

9 out of every 10 talk show hours on the radio, still, are conservative.

[DainBramaged]

36. And that is the problem. They are so afraid of a balanced media it isn't funny

counter their programing with facts and comedy, and they lose the message. And the war.