Sen. Webb - Wrong on Detainee Trials

[babylonsister]

http://crooksandliars.com/jason-sigger/webb-wrong-detainee-trials

Webb - Wrong on Detainee Trials
By Jason Sigger Monday Nov 16, 2009 2:00pm




When James Webb became a Democratic senator for Virginia in 2006 after beating George Allen, I thought it was a wonderful thing. Here was this former Reagan administration official and military veteran, recognizing that the Dem party had more potential for representing the great people of Virginia. I should have known that he was actually a conservative Democrat, at best, that it was too hard for him to hide his background. Talking Points Memorandum notes his view on the detainee trials in New York City:

"I have never disputed the constitutional authority of the President to convene Article III courts in cases of international terrorism. However, I remain very concerned about the wisdom of doing so. Those who have committed acts of international terrorism are enemy combatants, just as certainly as the Japanese pilots who killed thousands of Americans at Pearl Harbor. It will be disruptive, costly, and potentially counterproductive to try them as criminals in our civilian courts.

"The precedent set by this decision deserves careful scrutiny as we consider proper venues for trying those now held at Guantanamo who were apprehended outside of this country for acts that occurred outside of the country. And we must be especially careful with any decisions to bring onto American soil any of those prisoners who remain a threat to our country but whose cases have been adjudged as inappropriate for trial at all. They do not belong in our country, they do not belong in our courts, and they do not belong in our prisons.

"I have consistently argued that military commissions, with the additional procedural rules added by Congress and enacted by President Obama, are the most appropriate venue for trying individuals adjudged to be enemy combatants."

Now I don't know where Sen. Webb gets his history lessons, but I don't remember any Japanese pilots being tried in a military court for their attack on Pearl Harbor. In fact, the Tokyo War Crimes Tribunal was, in fact, a specially appointed international court made up of (gasp!) civilians.

As for Webb's charge that a civilian court would be "disruptive, costly, and potentially counterproductive," exactly how is it beneficial that we hold these detainees for six to eight years as the military tries to figure out how it can impartially judge and convict these individuals without looking like a kangaroo court? It's not the military's job, Sen. Webb, to judge non-state actors such as these terrorists. They're base criminals - they need to be treated as such. Don't give them the benefit of being judged as "combatants" equal to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. They aren't worth it.

If Sen. Webb believes that these detainees do not belong in our country, courts, or prisons, then he ought to direct the US government to let them go free (although, ironically, the US government can't seem to get rid of those detainees that they want to release). But Gimto is still a US interest, a military court is still "our" court system, and it's our responsibility to use the rule of law - a foreign concept to many in Congress - to dispose of these cases.

The Repubs want us to be afraid of trying the Gitmo detainees in US courts, because not using special military tribunals might actually be the successful way to do this. Get behind your party, Sen. Webb. Either support the quick disposition of the Gitmo detainees or let them go free. This subversion of US and international law has gone on long enough.

[cynatnite]

1. Webb beating Allen was a wonderful thing...

Imagine what it would be like had Allen won instead. Webb has always been conservative...nothing new there.

He also has to be able to keep his office, too. Part of that is to remain electable and you don't do that by pissing off the majority of your state which is made up of a lot of conservatives.

I understand why he's doing what he's doing, but at the very least Jim Webb should get his history straight.

[pscot]

6. I understand him too

and he's still wrong. These thugs are not soldiers. Mafiosi refer to themselves as soldiers, but we do not dignify them with that title. Terrorists, like mafiosi, are thugs and criminals in the employ of a secret organization. Our courts are perfectly capable of judging them. There's no need to reach outside the Constitution to punish them for their crimes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. It sounds like Webb is playing to the hometown audience in Virginia. knr

[NRaleighLiberal]

3. Another case of thinking we were electing a Dem....our tent is TOO BIG

and is being hijacked by center rights (blue dogs) and worse.

[tblue]

4. He has no power to change it, so he can squawk all he wants.

It won't make any difference. Once we get the convictions, no one will complain anymore, except the Bushies who believe it will make them look bad. Which it will.

[moondust]

5. Republicans fear

that civilian courts and public exposure might soften/humanize the horrific evil image of their new terrorist bogeymen that they are counting on to provide the long-term justification for hardline warmongers.

[babylonsister]

7. I think they fear repercussions...

But the possibility is what's got the rufftuffcreampuffs on the right quaking in their booties, that American law will actually shine a light on the murderous, torturing, incompetent, insanely frightened, paranoid, corrupt, and completely out of control Bush/Cheney regime.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7021681

[moondust]

11. Absolutely.

Republicans have MUCH to fear if these guys ever see the light of day.

[RC]

12. Don't forget the fact that the United States trained Osama bin Laden

when Russia were having their ass whoopen in Afghanistan. Then promptly forgot all about him when Russia pulled out.
Another example of us, U.S. making our own enemies.

[chollybocker]

8. I had high hopes for Webb.

Even pegged him as V.P. material.

Alas.... :(

[babylonsister]

9. I did, too. This is disappointing, and I don't really understand

where he's coming from. Is he such a military guy he thinks the military is the only body that can handle these trials, or is he kowtowing to his constituents?

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. Perhaps he anticipates a worthless media circus, a parade of Ramsey Clark

do-gooders denouncing the system & years long trials & appeals.

[vadawg]

13. +1, or worse the sight of KSM walking free to continue his jihad or criminal enterprise

whichever way you look at it, you can kiss re-election goodbye if this comes to pass and you were not seen to be against it...

[babylonsister]

15. What makes you think KSM will be walking free? You sound like the

rethugs.

Glenn Greenwald: The Right's textbook "surrender to terrorists"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7014273

[vadawg]

16. so you dont think KSM will be getting a fair trial, where he may be found innocent

where the fact he was waterboarded may make the evidence against him inadmissable. If you already think that with 100% certainty that he will not walk away then whats the point of the trial, and remember OJ looked a lock for jail time as well

[babylonsister]

17. No, I don't think he'll walk away free. I think they have plenty of

evidence to convict him other than his being tortured (illegal and wrong, but someone else needs to be held responsible for that). Here's another goodie and yes, I do form my opinions from what others write who are more knowledgeable than I.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x496501


snip//

...What are you afraid of? What about a Mohammed trial here in the States makes you so angry? Do you think he shouldn’t get the same rights as you? Okay, that’s fair. But so what? The Gitmo tribunals were stalled, dead in the water, so aren’t you willing to sacrifice your feeling of indignation for the quicker conviction and sentence Mohammed’s civilian trial almost surely will bring? Aren’t you willing to set aside your rage at his treatment for the diplomatic and political benefits America will receive from giving the guy an open trial? Don’t you think that treating Mohammed and his colleagues like common criminals is precisely the right message to send to the world about terrorism and al-Qaeda? Don’t you think it hurts their cause to be considered murderers and not jihadist soldiers?

Are you distrustful of the federal judiciary? Why, because you believe the dangerous lie about how judges are ruining the rest of the government’s war on terrorism? Have you taken the time to look at the track record that federal prosecutors have in successfully trying terror suspects in New York? Can you name a single case where the feds lost a major terror trial since September 11, 2001? Can you name one from before the terrible events that day? Is Tim McVeigh walking around Buffalo today? Is Terry Nichols walking around Kansas? Is Ramzi Youssef back in Brooklyn or Zacarias Moussaoui out on an airfield trying to fly planes in Minnesota? Have you heard from Jose Padilla or Richard Reid lately?

Are you really worried that Mohammed will go free? Why, because O.J. Simpson went free in 1995? Do you really think that a judge and jury are going to let this guy walk? The United States in United States v. Mohammed has the biggest home-court advantage in American legal history. Not only will the government have enough evidence to convict him, it’s likely that Mohammed will gleefully help convict himself. Did you pay attention to the Moussaoui trial when he proudly declared his al-Qaeda allegiance in a Virginia courtroom? Have you paid attention to Mohammed’s incriminating statements made to tribunal officers in Cuba? What about all of that makes you think he’s suddenly going to turn into a John Demjanjuk and deny, deny, deny it all?

Are you worried that Mohammed will try to turn his trial into political theatre? So what? The world already has heard what he and his al-Qaeda pals think of America. The world already has seen the photos from Abu Ghraib. The world knows about waterboarding. It’s old news. Mohammed is just a man, and soon he’ll be a defendant, and then he’ll be a ranting, shrieking crazy person in court, then he’ll be convicted and then he’ll be sentenced. Don’t be angry about it now that is going to occur. Don’t fear it. Welcome it. And at the same time embrace your own role, and your own responsibility, for ensuring that it had to happen this way, at this time, and in this place.

[vadawg]

18. i got no idea how the trial is going to go, all im saying is that if KSM goes free there will be

fallout, whether you choose to agree with that or not dosent matter to me, but you can bet a lot of politicians are casting an eye at this and trying to innoculate themselves just in case...

[Jazzgirl]

14. Japan was a country that attacked us.

These assholes are part of a terrorist group of assholes that attacked us, not their entire country. I just don't understand this bullshit!!!!!!!!

[dreamnightwind]

20. +1

Yes, I have always disagreed that this incident should be treated as an act of war. The terrorists represent no country, no government, no military, no tribe, nothing, just a bunch of co-conspirators carrying out a crime.

If they represent anything more than that, it's more likely to be that they're one faction of our quasi-government entities carrying out a false-flag op to justify radical changes to our system of personal liberties and to justify US intervention into the middle east. I realize many here do not agree with this position, but it should be considered as a possibility, regardless, there is much we do not know.

[dreamnightwind]

19. I still like him

I don't agree with Webb here, and he is more conservative than most Dems, but I think he's a keeper. He has incredible integrity, at least that's my impression. And he has the spine to back up his convictions. If our tent's not big enough for Webb it's too small.

By the way, I wouldn't say this about most of the DINO's. Feinstein is one of my senators, she needs to go away. Webb's different, he's not just a corporate MIC shill, he's much more real than that. My two cents.

[change_notfinetuning]

21. Very well put. I like that he stands for something, and his positions are not

up for sale to the highest bidder from K Street, unlike most Democrats today including the majority in the administration. Last year, I thought he would have been the best vice-presidential running mate - until I read his book, and wondered if we were missing something by not putting him at the top of the ticket.

Although my views are pretty much in line with Kucinich's, I still like Webb, too, and encourage everyone to read his book, "A Time to Fight: Reclaiming a Fair and Just America". Talk is nice, but I think we'd see more of the changes we'd like to see with a guy like Webb than the political hacks, in Congress and the White House both, who are now running the show. He means what he says, and he fights for what he believes in.

As for me, I won't lose any sleep if these four guys are tried in military courts. However, I do think a number of others at Gitmo should be tried in non-military courts - those whose detainments were much more questionable, and who would benefit from the additional rights civilian courts would extend.

[dreamnightwind]

23. Kucinich fan here too...

Dennis was and is my first choice.

Interesting what you say about Webb's book, maybe I'll find time to check it out. He writes fiction too, right? Interesting man.

[951-Riverside]

22. Yamsi Yusef, Aimal Kasi, Ahmed Ressam, Gazi Ibrahim Abu Mezer, and Hasan Akbar all were tried here.

Why the hell are boneheads like Sen Webb publicly wetting their pants over the idea of trying terrorists over here?

Afraid these terrorists will corrupt the cannibals, baby rapists, murderers, cop killers and serial killers already housed here?

Give me a break. :eyes: