I think Danny Pearls father had a good point today

[blues90]

On how if the terrorists know they will get trials in the states that this may boost their actions. This is just a general idea of what he said. Not word for word . I did not get the impression he was for torture.

[JuniperLea]

1. I don't think so...

And I'll take it a step further... them's RW talking points ya got there, Pilgrim.

[optimator]

2. He is an idiot

Terrorists usually die in their actions, and every human has the NATURAL RIGHT to a fair trial, even guilty people.

[derby378]

18. Very good point

Suicide bombers don't usually plan for what happens after they survive the attack - they're not supposed to survive. They don't want to. They've been hoodwinked by some crackpot into thinking this will earn them a one-way ticket to paradise.

[TheCoxwain]

20. Judea Pearl is a genius- inventor of the famous Algorithm for computing Bayesian networks

He probably knows more about decision making and event probability than all of us here at DU.

So you might want to reconsider your statement.

[arcadian]

29. Let's bow and worship why don't we?

Apparantly he's not a genius when it comes to global isues. I say the guy is an idjit.

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. Judea Pearl is a documented fucking genius

Try cracking his book "Causality" sometime.

[EFerrari]

34. And? Even "documented fucking geniuses" can be idiots

as he is being in this instance.

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. Beth, seriously, crack a book. Don't even take my word for it.

Just crack a book.

[EFerrari]

38. Doubting you isn't the issue.

(That may be a first. We can't let that become a habit.)

[JuniperLea]

42. Exactly...

You can also be a genius at some things, and an utter moran at others... and the truly genius know what they know, and what they don't know.

His son was murdered... genius or not, his ideas on the subject just might be tainted by emotion.

[EFerrari]

45. Einstein used to need help from campus security to identify his own front door.

Doug probably had thirty points on me and he didn't have the sense to open an umbrella in the rain.

And if my son was brutally murdered, I'm pretty sure my thinking wouldn't be untouched by that fact. :(

[JuniperLea]

47. Einstein is a perfect example...

And if you look at his Wiki page... among others... you'll see he made many famous mistakes, even in the areas where he is clearly a genius.

There is no such thing as a perfect human.

[TheCoxwain]

35. People here who call him an Idiot wont know the difference between causality and correlatedness

even if it bit them in their ass.

I guess we have our own 'You are either with-us or against us' Brigade .... Asking them to 'think' and take a measured stance is, perhaps, asking for too much.

[EOTE]

48. Correlatedness? Are you sure that's a word?

And just because the guy is brilliant in some respects, doesn't mean he's not a dolt in others. My father is a brilliant Epidemiologist (posts here under the name Time For Change), but in other areas (like anything pertaining to modern technology), he's so hopelessly naive, it's humorous. Mr. Pearl's remark is foolish regardless of his intelligence in other areas.

[EFerrari]

49. Or you have your own brigade of people who have lived with geniuses

and who have helped them close their mouths in the rain. :)

[Sparkly]

3. Did he suggest an alternative?

:shrug:

[blues90]

10. He only said he hopes it's a closed trial . nt

[JuniperLea]

15. One must ask who is served by a closed trial...

Only the guilty, really.

It needs to be open for the entire world to see, just like Nuremberg.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/nuremberg.htm

[supernova]

4. How does having the trials here "boost" their efforts?

There is no advantage to would be terrorists to having a trial with evidence in open court.

They get more recruitment milage out of saying that we are subverting our own values when we try them in military courts. These people aren't even any kind of official military anyway.

[Overseas]

14. That would be the free publicity their trials give their ideas. However,

the several trials already conducted for past terrorist crimes did not flood our airwaves with pro Al Q propaganda.

[FightingIrish]

5. If, by that logic, the terrorists can take away our true system of justice,

the terrorists win again.

[AzDar]

11. + 1

If "9/11 changed everything", then the terrorists have triumphed.

Don't people understand this?

[LostInAnomie]

6. Do you really think terrorists are really concerned with where their trials will take place?

I don't.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. It's a shame Danny Pearl's father doesn't want terrorists to receive justice.

Why does he hate America?

[Wounded Bear]

8. I disagree...

I think it is about two things, and the terrorists "rights" are not really in play for me.

1. It is about US. We're talking about our legal and ethical system, and if we don't follow our own rules, we have lost. We lost a lot under Bush on that ground. I guess their rights apply somewhat here, but it is more about our legal system than that IMO.

2. It is about their image, to themselves and around the world. Treating them like POWS just elevates their stature. Hauling them up in front of a judge on civil trial treats them like what they really are, a criminal gang committing crimes against civil society. These guys are not heads of state, nor generals in some army. They are criminal overlords. Kerry was right. The real fight against terrorism is a police/intelligence operation, not a military one. Or at least it should be. Any successful ones in the past have been.

[JuniperLea]

12. Well said!

We've invaded other countries under the guise of giving them the rights to the same democracy; it's the only way to prove without question the atrocities of their crimes and leave no loopholes.

I think the RW is fighting against this so hard because they have some skeletons that would be discovered.

[Are_grits_groceries]

9. I think trying them in Federal court

makes an important distinction. It was noted by a commentator that trying them in NY treats them as common criminals.

Trying them in a military tribunal would tacitly endorse their wish to be seen as soldiers in a war with infidels.

We are giving them no more status than murderers, rapists, robbers, pedophiles or any other class of criminal.

That should be pointed out a lot. Take them down from their supposed military pedestal.

(I don't remember the commentator, but I think this is important.)

[Mz Pip]

13. BushCo

had years to try them in military tribunals but didn't do it. They had their chance and now they want to complain about how this administration is going to handle it?

You don't get points for not taking advantage of your position of power and then complain when you didn't act on it.

Too late BushCo.

[blues90]

16. here is a link to the video from today

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/11/16/nr.intv.judea.pearl.cnn?iref=24hours

Judge it for yourself.

[Individualist]

17. I saw the interview

He spewed all the right wing talking points.

See posts 1-16.

[blues90]

19. He knows more about this than me or you

You can't simply classify everything as either left of right wing taking points.

[superduperfarleft]

21. Having your kid get his head sawed off doesn't make him an automatic expert on anything. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

23. His area of expertise is called Decision Systems, on which he is a pioneer

He's probably thought this through a little bit.

[superduperfarleft]

24. I just read up on him, and he sounds like, to put it bluntly

An absolute fucking genius. Makes me wish I'd paid attention more in math class.

Regardless, the idea that our giving someone a fair trial would encourage others to engage in terrorist acts is asinine.

[Dreamer Tatum]

25. He has his opinion, you have yours. His is news because

his son was decapitated by terrorists.

That's all there is to it right now.

[superduperfarleft]

26. Pretty much. n/t

[Individualist]

27. and it's also a right wing talking point.

[Dreamer Tatum]

28. To you, it's a RWTP. To him, it's an opinion.

His education and accomplishments don't make his opinion more valuable than yours, but since neither of us knows his politics, you might give him the benefit of the doubt.

Oh, and his son's head was sawed off on camera. I'll grant him a little latitude.

[supernova]

31. I watched the video, and he's wrong

on this issue, IMO.

We need to have this debate in the open (about the merits/demerits of western society/democracy and the merits/demerits of islamic theocracy. It is far better to argue it out in court room than to have live people suffer and die to make your "point."

If we can't argue our points in our favor in an open court, what good are we? But I bet we will.

Now, the downside is that the defendants won't participate in the due process, possibly dismissing their lawyers and trying to argue their cases for themselves. Obstinately not following court procedure or otherwise trying to disrupt and make a mockery of the process. That's a real possibility. That may be what Mr Pearl was referring to.

However, the judge keeping control of the courtroom has everything to do with how much they let the defendants get a way with such behavior. I am betting the NY judges won't let them get away with such foolishness.

[FarCenter]

30. Apparently the genius wasn't passed on to the son

A son of a former Israeli Defense Force officer should know better than to go to Pakistan and try to interview Muslim terrorists.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. Blame the vicitm. Classy!

[cali]

41. your comment is utterly repulsive.

And Danny Pearl was evidently not only very bright but very talented and a genuinely good guy. Take your ugly shit and shove it.

[EFerrari]

32. Well, how unAmerican of Mr. Pearl. n/t

[cali]

43. I think Mr. Pearl is wrong, but I think he views things through the prism

of his son's heinous torture and murder.

[EFerrari]

46. No doubt. I don't know how a parent could even approach such a thing.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[mitchum]

39. Is he afraid that it will come out that his son was working for the CIA?

[FarCenter]

44. More likely for Mossad

[cali]

51. yeah, all Jews are secretly Mossad agents.

[cali]

52. Evidence? Do you have even one scrap of evidence of any such thing?

Danny Pearl was an actual investigative reporter. Something we could use more of.

[mitchum]

53. He couldn't multi-task?

He could quite easily been both a journalist and an operative. It has been done before.
That's what cover is all about.

[cali]

54. anything is possible, but unless there's evidence of some kind it';s just a stupid

reach.

[FarCenter]

55. Yes, maybe they were just incredibly naive --

From page 34 of A Mighty Heart by Mariane Pearl, his wife:

Before hanging up, however, Ruth asks me the question that, I am certain, was the first to cross her mind: "Does anyone know we are Jewish? Does anybody know about us?"

I tell her, "Dont worry. Nobody knows."

But that isn't the truth, I remind myself as I hang up the phone. Someone does know: Kalid Khawaja. Former ISI agent, friend of Gilani, friend of Osama bin Laden, or so he claims.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. couldnt this logic be applied to all criminals?

[seabeyond]

50. terrorist that strap bombs on self and boom are concerned with death penalty? hm. nt