Wanna fix the economy and protect the planet?

[Octafish]

Answer: Stop funding War and start funding Peace.

Without devoting a trillion dollars a year to killing people or preparing to kill people,
the nation could afford a number of "Manhattan Projects" to make existence better for the living. For instance:

1. Energy Manhattan Project for clean, renewable energy we were talking about before Wall Street needed the Big Bail Out.

2. Transportation Manhattan Project to develop passenger rail service that would connect the nation's cities and neighborhoods and reduce the need for the polluting, gas-guzzling airplanes and automobiles.

3. Food and Water Manhattan Project to develop new ways of feeding all people and providing them with clean drinking water.

4. Education Manhattan Project which would serve to provide the brains needed to solve the global and national problems we know about, as well as the know-how to tackle the ones we don't.

5. Outer Space Manhattan Project to explore and develop the Final Frontier, creating a way for humanity to utilize resources on the moon and asteroids, rather than despoiling the planet; colonizing other worlds would also provide a way to alleviate earth's exploding population.

Even after funding all that, with all the associated funding for jobs and training, I'd bet we'd still have many hundreds of billions left over each year to do more. What other peaceful ways can our nation invest to make life better for living?

[leftstreet]

1. K&R

[Octafish]

7. Thanks, leftstreet!

Our nation has largely been in a state of war since 1941.

Here's some light on the subject from Matt Yglesias, courtesy of LeisureLife:

Civil Society Requires Constant State of War

It's way past time for some un-civil society.

[liberal N proud]

2. Think of how many lives that would save and jobs it would create

[Octafish]

9. No better form of Govt investment than jobs that make the nation and our world a better place.

Thanks, liberal N proud. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Here're details from Frida Berrigan:

Then, This is the Year: Imagining Our Way to the Peace Economy

It's a fixed game, though. There's always money for war -- and bailing out the rich.
The Congress seems never to find money for peace -- or the poor and jobless.
Soon enough, the middle class may find there's no money for social security, let alone health care.

Nevertheless, let's do our best to make this "The Year."

[daleanime]

3. Oh hell yea...

:bounce:

[Octafish]

11. What JFK said in regards to COs...

"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

-- John F. Kennedy 35th president of US 1961-1963 (1917 - 1963) (Letter to Navy friend. John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. retrieved 01-07-2009)

May we work toward the day when the Peace Hero is as important as the War Hero.

[phiddle]

4. How 'bout an overpopulation Manhattan Project?

Arguably even more critical than some on your list.

[Octafish]

12. How do you define overpopulation?

I agree that planet Earth cannot support the billions we have at current levels. And the world's most populous nations are fast becoming industrialized economies, making ever-greater demands on the earth's carrying capacity.

Planned parenthood is better than exploding birthrates. My point is: We can better utilize the resources we have, from natural to economic. It just takes the political will and wherewithal to accomplish.

In the past, the powers-that-be would engage in war or support their proxies in war to keep the population down. That's the easiest and cheapest way of going about it.

[The2ndWheel]

5. Not a single one of those projects would protect the planet

[Octafish]

15. Help me understand why you feel that way.

From what I know, these may appear unworkable, pie-in-the-sky ideas, but they are better than continuing down the path we are on. The only ones who now truly benefit from America's continued 63-year war footing are the world's war profiteers and America's ultraright-wing.

Here's where they got the idea:

Know your BFEE: Reinhard Gehlen

For change, let's see some action that benefits the peaceful folk.

[The2ndWheel]

20. Human beings with limitless energy

We have to assume here that clean and renewable energy will allow us to run this global civilization. If it doesn't, then it'll be a different world.

Think about humans with cheap limitless energy at the drop of a hat. We increased our impact and changed environments when we hunted with sharp sticks, let alone our activity at the scale at which it is today.

Massive transportation networks, increasing control over food and water, education in an attempt to further increase that control, and then colonizing outer space. How do these things save the planet? They increase our reach, increase our activity, increase our needs and wants.

"From what I know, these may appear unworkable, pie-in-the-sky ideas, but they are better than continuing down the path we are on."

I just don't see how any of the steps is discontinuing the path that we are on. The path is older than America, it's older than oil, it's older than the BFEE. We're just fueling our trip down the path in a seemingly different way.

It's not so much the source of energy, it's the activity that we are able to do with the energy, because it's so cheap economically, but very expensive environmentally. Which is why, in my mind, fixing the economy while simultaneously saving the planet isn't going to happen. It doesn't matter what energy you use, we'll have problems. We can't escape them. CO2 may be the current issue, but it's not the only one.

[Soylent Brice]

6. indeed. we need a priority re-alignment/reality check.

:thumbsup:

[Octafish]

16. Why Won't Obama Give You a Job?

Joshua Holland examines a most interesting question about Wall Street's trillions and the big fat nothing for Main Street:

Why Won't Obama Give You a Job?

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet
Posted on November 17, 2009, Printed on November 17, 2009

Working Americans continue to suffer from the worst financial crash since the Great Depression, and Washington has so far offered up only band-aids to help them out -- extended unemployment benefits, small stimulus checks and deeply flawed mortgage relief programs that have done little to stem the tide of foreclosures.

The stimulus plan passed earlier this year appears to have been too modest in scope, as many economists warned at the time. While it helped halt the economy’s free-fall collapse, unemployment still topped 10.2 percent last week, and analysts warn us that “bleak data point to a stark future for job seekers and employers.”

But while caution’s prevailed in Washington when it comes to bailing out “Main Street,” Wall Street’s enjoyed a degree of socialism that would make Hugo Chavez blush. The Obama administration has essentially continued Bush’s policy of loading up dump trucks with tax dollars at the Treasury and dropping them on the banks with little oversight and next to no strings attached.

And it’s had an effect, at least on the banks’ bottom lines. AIG, the insurance giant whose near-collapse last year almost brought down the entire financial system, reported its second consecutive quarterly profit after being rescued by Uncle Sam. Unlike American workers, the company is getting back on its feet after an injection of an almost impossible-to-grasp number of tax-dollars.

AIG’s fortunes are not unique. All of Wall Street’s survivors are raking in massive profits and paying their execs and traders record bonuses.

CONTINUED...

http://www.alternet.org/story/143952/

Thanks, Soylent Brice! Very much appreciate that you give a damn!

[LatteLibertine]

8. If people

would resist the low level urge to be breeders we could help the planet.

[Octafish]

17. If it weren't for 'breeders,' we wouldn't be here...

...Breeding is the most natural thing in the world.
"Love" is another matter, as you probably know.

Before the "haters" get the final say, it is my sincere hope
We the People can figure out ways of better using what we have.

For example, We want to end two illegal, immoral and unnecessary wars,
provide universal health insurance and create a better economy.
Yet, nothing happens. WTF?

[Sinti]

10. This is awesome

and really how I believe we need to think. Bookmarked for later.

[Octafish]

19. Way back in the 70s...

A writer described how we could transform the world if we only were to use the money then going to the Pentagon and the Soviet Bloc military for peaceful uses. The sum, IIRC, was around $140 billion. Specifically, the author described how every town in the planet with more than 10,000 people without running water and sewage systems could get them; and every town with more than 10,000 without a hospital could get one. That alone would make existence better for billions. Of course, many would say that clean water would only make the planet even more over-populated.

Imagine what we could do now, with the Pentagon alone getting the first trillion off the top of this year's IRS haul?

PS: The author's name is lost to my memory. If anyone remembers who she or he is, I'd be very much obliged to know.

PPS: Most importantly: Thank you, Sinti. I very much appreciate you caring about this stuff.

[Sinti]

24. There are also many technologies

currently owned and/or used by the military that could really help us with reclaiming land, and water.

It's feasible to return brown-fields to ground, or pretty close to their original clean state. There are sensors which can detect the materials you don't want present, it shouldn't be that difficult to find a way to filter them. Then you move on to soil enrichment - there are very natural ways to do this, chemicals are not required or even desirable.

The same could be done with water. If we filter water for drinking, we could also filter out many contaminants in river water and return it to the rivers and so on, while doing no harm. It can be done, it requires the will to do it.

The military have robots that combined with sensor technology could clean up landfills and such, recycling all of the recyclables and composting all that can be composted. We have made a lot of stuff, just to throw it away, this is a foolish use of resources and I really feel we need to sort that mistake out.

Sensors on drones (some drones are really small) could figure out where trouble spots are, in terms of environmental pollution.

We've got to think in terms of not just profit in coin, but profit for humanity and the earth that gives us life. Dollars mean nothing if you have a low quality of life.

First step is absolutely to start thinking in these terms, though. If we've managed to survive this well working against each other, and abusing the earth, how well could we do if we worked together and in cooperation with nature?

Part of the problem is fear, fear allows men to go to war. They use fear tactics generously on the population, because they work so very well. The Peace movement needs to find good methods for taking the fear out of the hearts of their fellow man.

Most soldiers I've known (and I've known a lot) join the military at least in part because they want to protect us from a dangerous world - danger does not only come in the form of another human being, it doesn't even usually come in that form.

To change the minds of people out there we need to have worthwhile visions, potential plans, to communicate those things clearly, and make sense to and get input from those we communicate with. I think some of us need to let go of our anger, too. I know I did. :)

[Uncle Joe]

13. Kicked and recommended, that photo looks familiar.

Thanks for the thread, Octafish.:thumbsup:

[Octafish]

21. The photo's ripped off the GOOGLE -- I searched ''What to do?'' -- LOL!

It's so easy, a, a, a caveman could do it!

Speaking of primitive urges, guess who was instrumental in introducing Planned Parenthood to the world?

The Bush dynasty and Roe vs. Wade

Rubbery politics runs in the family

Vicki Haddock, Insight Staff Writer
Sunday, November 20, 2005

If the U.S. Supreme Court does someday reverse Roe versus Wade, a large share of the credit, or blame, is likely to go to the one family most responsible for reshaping the court -- the Bushes.

Between them, George Bush the Elder and George Bush the Younger will have nominated at least four out of the nine justices, including Bush's pending nominee to replace moderate Sandra Day O'Connor, the swing vote on abortion cases. There's no guarantee how new Chief Justice John Roberts or nominee Samuel Alito, if confirmed, will rule, but many court observers predict a court more skeptical of a constitutional right to privacy, much less any constitutional guarantee to unfettered access to abortion.

Although abortion activists on both sides have conspired to cast Bush as a fervent crusader on this issue, there's evidence to suggest that the current president may be less of an ideologue on the subject than he is a political pragmatist.

Certainly the history of the Bush dynasty suggests a lot of private ambivalence and political reluctance about the role of government in human reproduction.

Care to guess who was the treasurer of Planned Parenthood when it launched its first national fundraising campaign in 1947? It was Prescott Bush, father and grandfather of the two Bush presidents.

CONTINUED...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/20/INGH1FEL551.DTL

Prescott also was into controlling who got to reproduce: Know your BFEE: Eugenics and the NAZIs - The California Connection

PS: Love the Rodin, Uncle Joe! Is that the DIA in the background?

[Uncle Joe]

23. This one is in Paris,

I took it off Wikipedia.

Peace, to you.

[Gabi Hayes]

14. ever read Carter's Energy speech from 1977? if we'd done the ten/twelve things he suggested

back then, we'd be in immeasurably better shape today, including probably not having had our constitution destroyed by the over-reaction to the 'terrorism' resulting from our dependence on foreign oil:

here you go. I've linked this a brazillion times. don't have the, uh, energy to paste in the major points, but it's so frickin obvious that, had we done most of what he proposed here (an obvious quibble with the coal, but who really knew back then?)......

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_energy.html

[Octafish]

27. Carter was ''overthrown'' by Oilmen and Wall Street lawyers...

They couldn't wait to rip the sweater off President Carter and the solar panels off the White House roof. What have they done to America since then, besides rip the taxpayers off through subsidies, land giveaways and wars for oil?

Gee. What kind of country would they create? Oh, yeah. Well, perhaps President Obama can stop 'em...

Report: Obama to take on Big Oil, call for end to fossil fuel subsidies

IPCC head: Lack of action on climate change could cause ‘large number of failed states’

Share on Facebook By Daniel Tencer
RawStory.com
Published: September 19, 2009

If a letter from a presidential aide is to be believed, President Barack Obama is set to make an audacious call to end fossil fuel subsidies at the United Nations on Tuesday.

A letter (PDF) from Michael Froman, an aide to Obama, setting out the White House’s climate change priorities ahead of the Copenhagen summit, states that “eliminating fossil fuel subsidies would help energy markets work better and improve our energy security.”

That leads DailyKos blogger RLMiller to conclude that Obama “will ask the G-20 countries, including our own, to end the hypocritical practice of billions of dollars of subsidies to dirty, carbon-emitting fuels while preaching to developing countries about their carbon emissions.”

In making such a call, Obama would be echoing the arguments of many environmental groups, as well as the United Nations Environment Program, which last year called for the “scrapping” of the subsidies.

But the move will likely place the Obama administration at odds with some of the world’s most profitable companies. As DailyKos’ Miller writes: “If you thought the health insurers hated Obama, it ain’t nothing compared to the reaction by Exxon Mobil and pals!”

Miller points to a study from the Environmental Law Institute that shows the energy industry received more than $70 billion in subsidies between 2002 and 2008, despite consecutive quarters of record-shattering profit during much of that time.

That compares to $29 billion in subsidies during the same period for renewable fuels.

The ELI study also asserts that US taxpayers’ money is being spent to subsidize foreign oil production, and that the subsidies are creating “perverse incentives” to continue investing in fossil fuels, even as they become more scarce.

CONTINUED w/links...

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/09/19/obama-big-oil-fuel-subsidies/

...with our help.

Thanks for the heads-up on that resource, Gabi Hayes. There's nothing like the Truth to help us see our way out of the mess "They" got us in.

[blindpig]

18. Can't happen as long as we have a capitalists economy.

Capitalism depends upon imperialism.

[Octafish]

29. Jacque Fresco can help.

A one-time rocket scientist, Fresco has envisioned the post-capitalist future where people are put ahead of property.
He says the greedheads and warmongers are running the planet into the ground.
He described his "Venus Project: Beyond Politics, Poverty and War."
If We the People wanted to, we could rebuild the planet.
Robots can do the heavy lifting, and people are freed to enjoy living and doing.
The guy's getting on in years, but his ideas are on the money:

The Venus Project



I heard him speak at University of Michigan in March. Awesome mind and a wonderful fellow.

[blindpig]

30. Maybe, who can tell.

But first, the barricades, his dreams are not possible under the current social order.

[dysfunctional press]

22. you lost me at number 5.

we'd be better off exploring the depths of our own planet first, before trying to venture off beyond.

[proteus_lives]

25. Love number 5!

Colonizing other worlds, the moon, asteroids for living space and resources will eventually be the only option for us.

[winyanstaz]

26. K & R

good post..thank you :)

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. I donate all my spare money to the Fed. Aren't they supposed to be doing this ?