BTW, your prez is selling the fuck out right now

[HEyHEY]

This "Town hall" meeting where he's agreed to do it with pre-screened questions. He's becoming a tool for the chinese government, helping them spread their bullshit. I'm disappointed. He's also pandering to the communists.

I won't be able to defend much against the upcoming flames cause it's hard to access DU cause of the government here.

[HipChick]

1. umm...what was he supposed to be doing..I must have missed the memo..

[HEyHEY]

8. He shouldn't be agreeing to be used by the CPC to manipulate their own.

ALl in the name of commerce too.

[timeforpeace]

92. Getting the rest of the world to like us again is a messy job. Sometimes groveling is involved.

[Cha]

2. Bullshit..I'm listening to

it so I know you're talking bullshit.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bertman]

6. You KNOW the questions aren't pre-screened?? How do you know?

[HEyHEY]

12. I live in Beijing, I work in media here

I promise you these things are not only pre-screened, but those asking are hand-picked to make this conference look a certain way that will benefit the cpc.

[TomCADem]

24. Ah, I was wondering why you referred to him as "your" President

Otherwise, I would have said that he is your President, too.

[SidDithers]

82. Didn't the Canadian Flag avatar make that pretty obvious?...nt

Sid

[Chan790]

127. HEyHEY's Canadian...

originally from Vancouver, works in Beijing as a foreign news correspondent and is not a disruptor or a Chinese government plant...he used to be a frequent poster for years in the Lounge before he moved halfway across the globe.

If he's saying things are not on the up-and-up I would take that at face value. I mean you can do what you'd like, but I can vouch it's not in his interest to lie as it would both damage his professional credibility and he simply has no reason to...he's a neutral, a citizen of a nation that has fairly-strong relations with both the US and China who neither gains or loses anything by lying to you. In that, he's exactly what more Americans need access to when it comes to China: international news coverage that is unbiased and 3rd-party from someone who is fluent in both Western and Chinese culture and language.

[HughMoran]

3. Commie pinko bastard

:P

[spanone]

5. a muslim commie no less...

lay off the acid for a while

[HughMoran]

14. musliN

please - I'm the grammar cop here :rofl:

[HEyHEY]

20. Funny, how unperceptive many are.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elleng]

9. Oh right, getting along is SUCH a sellout.

[HEyHEY]

16. I didn't say he has to cause trouble, just don't allow himself to be used.

The government is using him right now. They know he's popular here, so they will prop him up, have softball questions asked that can only make China look good and then shake hands with him. The purpose is to give credibility to the Chinese government IN CHINA. Meanwhile the rights of people here are being trampled on.

[tabatha]

10. He is being very subtle

but he is promoting US values.

[O is 44]

11. Ok, whatever buddy....

your concern is dully noted.

[HEyHEY]

18. "dully" noted, wow you're clever

go away.

[O is 44]

36. My bad, "duly" noted. It's late n/t

[Aramchek]

13. so your government limits your web access, yet you're complaining about ours?

keep your concern north of the border, eh?

[spoony]

17. I was under the impression he was talking about the Chinese government

If you'll read his profile...

[laundry_queen]

22. Read the post again.

He's from Canada. He's in China right now. The Canadian gov't doesn't limit web access.

ETA,looking in his profile is easier, although you can tell from his posts he's in China right now.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. Are you saying Obama should join Levi Johnston and advertise pistachios.

Obama does it with pre-screened questions?

It does seem that it is a huge leap from "doing it with pre-screened questions" to "selling the fuck out."

[HEyHEY]

19. Because by accepting that, he's only being used as a PR tool for the government

Have you heard most of his questions thus far? "Are you coming to the expo?" Come ON

[Warpy]

21. It's all pablum so I switched off

but I really didn't expect much of substance.

He did talk about cooperative research into alternatives to fossil fuels. I'll believe it when I see it, but that sounded OK.

The rest of it is just feel good pap.

[HEyHEY]

23. He's redeeming himself a bit now, a couple subtle comments about human rights.

n/t

[frazzled]

26. Questions about freedom on the Internet? On Afghanistan?

I don't think these were terribly favorable to China, in the first place, or to the US, in the second.
Obama was very blunt in saying that he opposes restrictions, censoring, etc. of Internet use.
He got a tough question in the end on Afghanistan policy.

I'm not sure what your point is: you want him not to be there? You want him not to talk to any real people? That will help China?

[HEyHEY]

30. First of all he's not talking to real people. He's talking to CPC plants.

Second of all, if you'll noticed I said he's redeeming himself now..... this was a live commentary. What I would like him to have done is not agree to pre-screened questions by planted askers. All that it effectively does is allow the government to USE Obama to further their message.

[Frank Booth]

69. Many smart, successful Chinese college students would fit your definition of "CPC plant".

If you live in China, you ought to know that being a party member is more often than not a means of opening opportunities in business, academia, etc., rather than a sign of uncritical devotion to the government.

[HEyHEY]

75. Of course it is, I work with many of them, that said it doesn't excuse

Behavior of party plants asking question for the purpose of manipulating people.

[JVS]

72. Hey. CPC members are people too!

[HEyHEY]

76. Yup, I'm surrounded by them as we speak.

[cliffordu]

25. WTF is wrong with you?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FightingIrish]

38. Evidently the Chinese government doesn't filter boorish behavior.

[HEyHEY]

41. Coming from someone called "Fighting Irish" I find your comment rife with hypocrisy.

[NeedleCast]

102. (Be Smarter)

The "Fighting Irish" is a refernce to the Notre Dame University football team. Their Mascot is "The Fighting Irish"

[NanceGreggs]

33. Now THAT'S a softball question. n/t

[cliffordu]

35. Well....

:rofl:

:hi:

[NanceGreggs]

45. ...

:hi:

[HEyHEY]

53. Yes, how dare I critique the supreme leader... shame on me

[DU GrovelBot]

28. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[kentuck]

29. I think the President was very careful and deliberate with his remarks...

When he talked about child labor. When he talked about women's rights. When he talked about the past of both our countries. He was very diplomatic and did not come across as trying to preach to the Chinese. Personally, I was proud to have a President that could stand up in that situation, in that classroom, and handle himself so gracefully...

[HEyHEY]

31. Hey, he was charming, as usual

But it's not how he represents himself, it's how this will be used by the government. He redeemed himself near the end, but when I first posted this he was just horrible.

[kentuck]

32. How will they use it to hurt our country?

There are propagandists everywhere. Perhaps you are one yourself?

[HEyHEY]

37. They use it to legitmize themselves to their own people...

Which leads to ultra-nationalism which means that as China becomes more and more powerful the desires of the corrupt bastards that run the place will be thrust upon the rest of the world. The government here is a corporation. And the Chinese are their employees. Once they are powerful enough they will be demanding and manipulating countries all over the place. That is what will effect the USA. And by helping them legitimize their "government" to their own people we are ensuring democracy will never come there and the corruption will go on.

[kentuck]

42. If it benefits both countries...?

I don't see how that would necessarily be bad?

[HEyHEY]

47. Because, while it may benefit both countries economically, socially it tramples people

The only reason China works right now is the cost of labour is so cheap and on-the-job rights barely exist. This truly is a feudal society and anyone who complains about their job is fired ASAP, anyone who complains about the government is up shit creek.

I have a friend who's mom died of cancer she worked at a government power plant. Seven other people in her department died of Cancer in one year. The government denies that it has anything to do with the job. If she went to complain, depending on how corrupt the local government is, she could be completely fucked, even end up in one of those black prisons.

What worries me is the west accepting this model of government more and more.

[kentuck]

48. He also mentioned the right to organize in his speech.

What else would you have him say? He addressed almost every issue we have with the Chinese government. Granted, he didn't do it in an inconsiderate way. Several times he told the students that it was good if they could "think for themselves". I thought he did excellent.

[HEyHEY]

49. Yeah, but again, Kentuck.... I mentioned by the end he'd redeemed himself

But the first fifteen minutes looked like it was gonna be a blowjob

[kentuck]

54. But it's not where you start the race...

It's where you finish. Would we rather have had George W Bush talking to that group of young people? Obama did show mutual respect for their country and culture. I suppose some would hold that against him?

[HEyHEY]

55. That doesn't make sense

This has nothing to do with Bush, as I said, Obama redeemed himself by the end.

[theophilus]

86. "Obama redeemed himself by the end." SO WHY DIDN'T YOU WAIT

UNTIL HE WAS DONE! This thread should have been titled something like...."Obama does good job in front of handpicked Chinese crowd." Many DUers only post on things that, in their opinion, might happen. Why waste your time and ours by jumping the gun like this! Progressives don't need to come off like RightWing Freeptards with their warnings and concern about how we are all going to die or be "sold out". Just wait until something actually happens. Speculation is seldom worth much. So much room is taken up here by worthless garbage.

And, I guess you wanted some "real" Chinese to ask tough questions and then been rounded up and put in prison. That would have made a statement? Or Obama not done any interaction at all? Just WAIT in the future, please. I have had enough of the FOX NEWS tactics. (All just my opinion, of course.)

[PassingFair]

83. I don't know who YOU work for, but that shit happens every day right here in River City....

Try being "negative" where I work and you
will be out of a job, like yesterday.

"At will" State.

[rug]

44. The propaganda works both ways.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x3785

They both know what they're doing.

[HEyHEY]

51. Can't open the link, dude, stupid internet here won't let me... can you copy/paste?

[rug]

59. Here you go, minus 8 lovely photos.

"A prophet is not without honor save in his own country." (China townhall photos)

"If anyone is STILL unsure why the Nobel committe chose him, all they needed to do was sit and watch him work that rope line at his townhall in Shanghai, see all of the young CHINESE students, standing and cheering, their eyes fixed upon him with smiles brighter than a thousand suns.

"The WORLD understands .... maybe one day we will too."


Your post about plants underscores the mutual manipulation going on.

[HEyHEY]

63. Oh, yeah, I know.

"The WORLD understands .... maybe one day we will too."

- what was that in reference to?

[rug]

67. Considering the headline is a quote from Jesus in Matthew 13:57, I shudder to ask.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. And some are lapping it up

[Name removed]

64. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tavalon]

77. I think he means that the Chinese govt. will use it

And he is right. That's what all governments do. We currently have a very popular President so I'm not surprised that they would want to exploit him. I didn't watch the townhall so I can't comment on how badly he's being used but knowing how good Obama is in public speaking, I would hope it wouldn't be too awful.

[tabatha]

34. So before Obama was president,

the US had the world terrified that Bushco would attack them without reason, and we were regarded very poorly as being bellicose.

Obama reverses that, and you bitch!

Good grief!

[HEyHEY]

39. I'm bitching because it's not about war, we're not going to war

But we are allowing a corrupt gang of SOBs to further and further gain power.

[spin]

40. When you owe someone a LOT of money, it's a good idea to be polite. (n/t)

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. BINGO

also may mark the moment of who actually dictates policy... and who is the ascending empire and who is the declining one.

For the record I am not watching... Iron Chef is on and quite frankly I am not in the mood of watching

:-)

[O is 44]

46. So very true....

China being our ATM machine came to mind early on.

[Skip Intro]

50. The Canadian government is making it hard to access DU?

Is that what you are saying? I hope I'm misunderstanding something.

[HEyHEY]

52. I live in Beijing n/t

[kentuck]

56. May I ask, what do you do in Beijing?

Are you with an NRO or the government of Canada? Your response came across as something similar we would expect to hear from the extreme right-wing in this country.

[HEyHEY]

57. Check your PM

Why do people here say anything that questions Obama is rightwing? The Chinese government is the perfect example of what rightwingers would want the US to look like anyway.

[Skip Intro]

58. Oops. Didn't know that. Sounds more like China than Canada. My mistake. nt

[sense]

61. The sky is falling, The sky is falling.....

[HEyHEY]

62. Oh, I forgot, we can't speak rhetorically or about anything anymore

No one is allowed to express an opinion on anything for the sake of conversation because it's all a waste of time and breath.

[sense]

68. Just because you're bored.....

doesn't mean the rest of us have all day to spend second guessing every step he takes. He's brilliant. He's got this...

[HEyHEY]

70. HA! You've likely never questioned a thing in your life if that's you attitdue.

[cleveramerican]

65. what did you want him to do? piss in the punchbowl?

I'm sure they say the same thing about our press conferences.
I'm sure he will say the wise and cautious thing as the situation demands.

If their is ONE THING we know about him
HE KNOWS how to strike the right tone in any situation.

He will do fine, You can count on it.
You should move on to other stories, there's not one here.

[sense]

66. Exactly!

[HEyHEY]

71. It's the internent, mild bits of venting for things that would usually be ignored is what it's for

[Frank Booth]

73. There were a few questions, like the cross-straits relations question about the

"Taiwanese businessman" who doesn't want arms shipped to Taiwan, that sounded like they were drafted by the 中央宣传部 -- the central propaganda department.

But, overall, I think Obama did a wonderful job of delicately stressing the importance of greater freedoms and political rights.

[HEyHEY]

74. Yeah, by the end he had

[saltpoint]

78. Strongly unrec'd.

[stray cat]

79. If you are chinese you are going to have to change your government from within

we don't want to invade China

[piratefish08]

105. We can't. We would have to borrow the $$ from them for the invasion.

[stray cat]

80. A DUer who thinks we should invade China to change their gov?

[HEyHEY]

89. Is it all that simple to you? Now you can start just casting what you "think" I want?

It has nothing to do with invading anyone. The first 15 minutes of that I saw Obama being used by the Chinese government the way I've seen them use so many before. And that pissed me off cause he seemed to go for it.

[Ikonoklast]

81. I want our country to invade Canada now.

They deal plenty with those Red Commies Bastards, and I want it to stop!


Glass houses and all that.


Unrec. Go criticize your own government, which is tilting to the right pretty hard.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[piratefish08]

110. Oh the humanity - now you attack Walmart too?

then where would I buy 15 pairs of tube socks for $4.97 ??? Hmmmmmm?

:sarcasm:

[HEyHEY]

122. Many of them are made for that price cause there's blood in the cloth.

[piratefish08]

128. I know. I do not/will not shop at Walmart.......

[Ikonoklast]

134. LOL @ Internet Tough Guy.

The 'Thin-Skinned' Internet Tough Guy.

Dish out breathless stupidity, but can't take any.



What are you, twelve?




:eyes:

[babylonsister]

84. Yea, I'm sure the Chinese gov't encouraged the President -here...

:eyes:

Obama Pushes for More Freedom in China
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x402811

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

116. You're disgusting.

Go criticize your own government, k?

And now you change your tune? :eyes:

From you:

That's how I know, cause I am

At the begining of his forum today it appeared he was being used the way so many people are used by the government here to give them legitimacy. He broke free halfway through and did a good job.

[AlinPA]

85. Lots of hyperbowl going on here.

[AngryAmish]

95. Well done, sir. Perfect.

[Greyhound]

87. What's left to sell?

We sell them stuff to make things (manufacturing equipment,durable goods), they sell us disposable plastic crap. Such a deal!

[KG]

90. your autographed copy of the Little Red Book is being FedExed, comrade!

:P

[HEyHEY]

93. I've got one, dammit

And it's the worst book I've ever not read!

[dionysus]

91. poutrage duly noted.

jesus christ just when you think people can't get any more desperate in finding things to soil themselves over...

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

97. the truth stings don't it? you got what you asked for.

[HEyHEY]

106. Truth?

If you knew anything about me and what I do for a living, you'd know that the minor slings and arrows from tools on an internet message board cannot "Sting" me.

[dionysus]

129. LOL, you're obviously really touchy that your little flamebait thread is going down in flames...

:rofl:

[HEyHEY]

138. You must be a Chinese government official

You're doing the whole "If I keep repeating it, it becomes true" BS.

[Greyhound]

98. The Chinese government makes Idiot Fat Boy look like Glynda the Goo Witch. n/t

[bridgit]

99. His trying to sell internet access to expanded info cause it helps him...

question himself about whether he's doing the best he can or even has current info, was falling flat and looked like he was having to push a pancake uphill with his nose cause they weren't buying it. Not from the prez of a people whose so-called freedoms sank their boat

[Mari333]

100. well, they own all of our treasure bonds and we owe them billions

I guess we also sent most of our good paying jobs over there, so they just love us now.


knr, and it makes me sick.

[Peacetrain]

101. Well all knowing one.. just how in the hell is he supposed to get an Unscreened

group... It is fricking Communist China. Is he supposed to expose the dissidents to being killed when they come out.

ARE YOU NUTS?

[HEyHEY]

111. Refuse to do it.

If he just sits there and allows them to throw softball questions all he's doing is helping their cause. You wanna help their cause? ARE YOU NUTS?

Anyway it's all moot cause he straightened out later on.

[Peacetrain]

118. So he is not supposed to speak to the Chinese at all? or promote freedom?

Jezzus beans

[HEyHEY]

124. He can, but not on the terms of the government

That's not promoting freedom, that's lending legitimacy to a repressive bunch of cockwads. It's much more grey than that, but that's the barebones.

[WeDidIt]

103. THANK YOU!!

I'm always looking for DUers to put on ignore.

Buh Bye!

[HEyHEY]

108. Thank you, for making me feel better about myself.

[ellie]

104. I worry about

some long-time posters here. It seems more than one is cracking under the pressure.

[HEyHEY]

112. I worry about the average DUer not thinking for themselves anymore.

[ellie]

135. Who isn't thinking for him/herself?

Here is what I think: I think some longtime DUers have lost their minds.

[Number23]

139. "I think some longtime DUers have lost their minds."

You know, this is the second time I've seen someone express that sentiment in the last two days??

I agreed yesterday and I definitely agree today.

[NoSheep]

107. Total bullshit. I heard his remarks this morning and I thought they were excellent.

[HEyHEY]

109. If you read the posts, I say he redeemed himself. The first 15 minutes were horrid. IMO

[izzybeans]

113. Sure he is.

:eyes:

And you are in China.

[HEyHEY]

114. That's how I know, cause I am

At the begining of his forum today it appeared he was being used the way so many people are used by the government here to give them legitimacy. He broke free halfway through and did a good job.

[izzybeans]

115. I suppose he had to agree to some terms in order to get the forum

but I was surprised he even took a few shots at the "censorship" issue. From your end, is this issue as big as it seems? I took it to be a pretty timely poke in the face.

Did I miss something?

[HEyHEY]

120. Not as bad as you'd think

I've been shocked. The weird thing is that the government just picks random things to censor and there seems to be no reason to it. That said, overall it has gotten worse since I arrived here.

[Romulox]

117. Washington Post: "Virtually every aspect of the event was staged"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/16/AR2009111600648.html?hpid=topnews

[HEyHEY]

119. Yet, that doesn't bother people here cause Obama was involved.

I'm sure from his point he was bridging with the Chinese people, but the more important point is that when he answers carefully selected questions it can look to the average chinese person like Obama completely agrees with what the government does.

[Romulox]

126. Occam's Razor suggests that he does.

"...it can look to the average chinese person like Obama completely agrees with what the government does."

One of his Secretary of State's first official acts was to take the issue of human rights "off the table" in her discussions with Chinese officials. Until a policy change is announced, US-Sino discussions will center on solely on money issues.

[ddeclue]

121. Stop buying from WalMart and stop buying Chinese junk and he won't have to grovelbot to the Chinese.

It's our trade deficits and our money borrowing that are to blame here.

Stop buying Chinese - boycott Chinese products and force American retailers to sell you an American made product and the problem will be solved.

[HEyHEY]

123. Well, more importantly, pressure them to have humane working conditions.

[Sinti]

131. Until we clean up our own mess

we really can't be telling any other people what to do about theirs. It's just one of those things. At least he's not trying to start another war.

We really don't have that much of a leg to stand on with regard to human rights. Look at our prison population, both at home (7X the incarceration rate)...not to mention Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, et al. I have a friend who works in finance (still) and travels extensively through China, it's not as bad as some would have you believe, and it's not as good as the government would like you to believe. Reality lives somewhere in-between, much like every other country on the planet.

Once, and if, we get our act together on the subject, perhaps then we can discuss human rights with any other country in the world. You do realize it's a "diplomatic" mission, right, not a "Daddy's home and he's going to get you" mission?

[Romulox]

125. *I* didn't ask anybody to borrow trillions of dollars to give to banksters.

In fact, I remember a large majority of Americans being against it.

Similarly, I didn't borrow trillions of dollars to wage a phoney war in Iraq, Afghanistan (nor did I advocate for *yet another* surge...) So, I could live in a hole and never buy another thing again; the borrowing would continue because our government is borrowing much of this money for its own ends.

[piratefish08]

137. We owe them eleventy bazillion dollars. Kiss ass we will, until we put our OWN house in order.

[BolivarianHero]

130. Wow...He's pandering to Beijng...

I can see the headlines now..."Obama follows in footsteps of every President since Richard Nixon"

[dionysus]

132. i guess, like most people on this thread, you haven't been sucessfully outraged.

[BolivarianHero]

136. Nope...Not in the way the right would want me to be...

I have many issues with China, but most are from the left and then to deal with the geopolitics of the Sino-Soviet split and the government's movement to an increasingly neo-liberal position in the past 3 decades. It's hard not to have issues with a country whose government delivered Chilean dissidents seeking refuge in its embassy to Pinochet's torture chambers.

[Fleshdancer]

133. Time Magazine article: Handshakes and Vetted Questions: Obama's Chinese Town Hall

Carefully controlled, hand-picked questions, and the Chinese govt still didn't widely broadcast it.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1939627,00.html

Instead of being greeted by voters mulling their options, Obama on Monday met with several hundred well-dressed, attentive and relentlessly on-message students, handpicked by Chinese authorities for the occasion. They listened attentively, nodding in agreement at some of his answers and laughing at his jokes. Most of their questions were something less than challenging. "What measures will you take to deepen this close relationship between cities of the United States and China?" asked the first questioner, a young woman whom Obama picked randomly from the crowd. "What's the main reason that you were honored with the Nobel Prize for Peace?" asked another. A third followed up on the Nobel Prize line of inquiry. "What's your university/college education that brings you to get such kind of prizes?"

It was the first time a U.S. President had ever hosted a town hall in the Communist Party–controlled state, and the terms of the event were carefully negotiated between diplomats from both countries. The selection of the audience aside, Chinese authorities also picked three questions that had been submitted over the Internet — including one that was sharply critical of U.S. support for the Taiwanese military. U.S. ambassador Jon Huntsman read an additional question, which the White House said had been randomly selected from a group of online submissions acquired by the U.S. government.

Huntsman's question, the most controversial of the night, asked about the "great firewall" that prevents open access to the Internet in China, where many websites are blocked by government censors. "I'm a big supporter of noncensorship," Obama said in a section of the event that was described on the website of Xinhua, the state-run news agency. "This is part of the tradition of the United States."

But the Obama Administration's initial hopes for widespread Chinese broadcast of the event were not, in the end, realized. Though the event was covered on Shanghai television, elsewhere in the country the broadcast networks did not carry the feed. The White House website streamed the video, but it was not immediately apparent that any of the major Chinese Web portals had done the same. A TIME reporter tried to find Chinese residents watching the event in Beijing Internet cafés, but a survey of a half-dozen establishments found no one watching. Customers were playing online games instead.