Many of us knocked ourselves out to get Obama elected. But what does he stand for?

[Cyrano]

I have no idea why the hell we are still in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I have no idea why Obama hasn't used the full power of the "bully pulpit" to crush Republicans and blue dog Dems who oppose health care for everyone.

I have no idea why Obama has bailed out Wall Street and banks, and ignored us.

Many millions of us gave our all to get him elected. We bought into "change." We bought into the idealism he gave voice to. We bought into his honesty, integrity and believed he would make America a better place.

And perhaps he's going to get around to doing some of what he promised. But in the meantime, how do the jobless pay a mortgage or rent? How do they put food on the table. Why is he bragging that the Dow Jones is up, while middle America is down? Why is he kissing Olympia Snowe's ass? When is he going to start kicking ass?

At the moment, it looks like we are the ones who are going to get our asses kicked during next year's congressional elections. And as of now, I blame Obama for not taking on the despicable group of people called the Republican Party and blue dog Dems.

Mr. President: Nobody beat Attila the Hun by ignoring him or catering to him.

[Taverner]

1. Because the US is not a dictatorship?

[anonymous171]

2. Obama has command of the US military. He could easily initiate a withdrawal. nt

[Taverner]

5. Whatever. Ponies aren't that easy to just bring out

[truedelphi]

76. No they aren't. Especially when one decides to do it

In a conciliatory and bipartisan manner.

First you have to go to the huge pile of shit. Then you notice the Repugs who are surrounding that pile.

Then you tell them you don't really mean to dig the pony out, you just wanna dig around the edges.
A little tiny bit.

They get furious and say that God would not want that bit of earth disturbed. So then you propose that you will simply stare at the pile of shit very very intently.

And if you have laser beam vision - Voila - a pony will emerge. However it doesn't work out so well if you are only a mere mortal.

[timeforpeace]

78. His style is obviously avoidance of decisions, string things out, hope it's seen as "deliberation".

[salguine]

102. If it were up to me, any person who uses the word "pony" anywhere in response to a

serious, legitimate concern would finally just get fucking tombstoned forever.

[bobbolink]

121. Yes, things really would be easier if you were elected dictator.

[SammyWinstonJack]

126. +1000

:thumbsup:x3

[Starry Messenger]

133. Oh LORD yes.

[Hannah Bell]

136. +10000

[QC]

145. Yes!!!

[jonnyblitz]

147. it's the sign of an idiot who has run out of argument and likes to.

insult people who are concerned about the issues. it's the final refuge of the personality cult LOON.

[QC]

148. There is something especially vicious about comparing something like equal rights

or healthcare or economic justice or peace to a little girl's demand for an unrealistic Christmas present.

It's also tragically unoriginal, as the kool kiddies have been bleating it nonstop for well over a year now. Time for a new idiotic slogan, I would say.

[dana_b]

155. amen!! n/t

[cali]

9. no, sorry, nothing is nearly that simple. And he has initiated a withdrawal in Iraq.

[anonymous171]

13. See? It's that easy! nt

[treestar]

160. Oh good God. Please be under 18.

If the world were that simple we wouldn't have any problems at all.

[Cyrano]

4. Tell that to FDR and LBJ who gave us

Social Security, the minimum wage, the right to form unions, Medicare, Medicaid, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act and so much more.

It seems to me that they didn't live in a dictatorship. And they had plenty of Republican opposition.

I know that Obama has been in office less that a year. However (and this is a bad example) look at what Bush/Cheney accomplished in less that a year.

Here's what Obama needs to do. He needs to get in front of a TV camera and say, "No more Mr. Nice Guy."

[prolesunited]

12. And they did that in the first 9 months?

You have another chance in three years.

[cali]

14. And it didn't just happen overnight.

As for bush and cheney, they certainly did not achieve what they hoped to legislatively.

[JDPriestly]

87. We are still stuck with the Patriot Act and the excesses of electronic

and other surveillance. So, yes, Bush and Cheney did achieve what they hoped legislatively. In fact, until 2006, they nearly always got massive support for their smallest whims in Congress. Obama has not marshaled his own Democratic majority. And unless he can do that, he has no hope of working with Republicans.

Republicans have figured out a very clever strategy for dealing with Obama. Just lure away a few conservative Democrats on each issue, Just nibble away at that majority in Congress. Promise abortion crack-downs to some, big donations to others, pork to the rest, and the Democratic support for Obama crumbles. Oh, and keep mentioning the budget deficit. That virtually binds everybody's hands. Of course, the Chinese will be quite happy to support Republicans in pressuring Obama about our deficits.

Obama promised that hew would call directly on the American people for support. In fact, he has done very little of that. That is his biggest mistake. He should have spoken to the American people about what he wanted for health care reform much more clearly, in much more detail. Many of us would have supported him wholeheartedly in his ideas and pressured Congress to vote for Obama's proposals. That is how Obama led us to believe he would govern. Of course, he has to work with Congress, but he should be leading, not following Congress. And he needs to go back to Plan A which was to rely on the grass-roots, on ordinary Americans to pressure Congress. He has utterly failed in doing that. That is Obama's problem. If you asked me today, what does Obama advocate on health care, I could not tell you. He talked about a public option, but I never heard him define what he meant by "public option" very clearly. I still haven't heard his definition.

There is a lot of talk about cuts in Medicare Advantage. Again, I have no idea what is meant by that. Obama has never said. No one else has explained this in any details. Yet, everyone laughs at older people, Medicare recipients for opposing reform. I understand precisely why Medicare many recipients do not trust reform. It's all just too vague. And that, in my opinion, is Obama's fault. He has traveled to many foreign countries, but he is not speaking CLEARLY to the American people. The OP points out many areas in which Obama has just failed to communicate whatever it is that is on his mind.

I'm disappointed. I want to support Obama, but he isn't giving me enough to support.

[Bonn1997]

111. they didn't have a super majority in the Senate

[snake in the grass]

131. I disagree.

They set out to plunder the country and deliver the death blow to all the advancements made under the New Deal, and that's exactly what they achieved. Hell, even now, we are still paying criminal corporations, like KBR and Xe, obscene amounts of money for their atrocities.

[jpak]

20. Bush and Cheney had it easy compared to Obama's current situation

Obama has to deal with the deepest recession since the '30s

Bush and Cheney had budget surpluses when they took office in 2001 and the some of the lowest unemployment rates in US history.

Obama has to deal with Bush and Cheney's 2 wars

Obama has to deal with all the shit Bush and Cheney left us with.

Your comparison is stupid.

[truedelphi]

86. You overlook this: During the last two years of B/C rule, they had

Only 28% and dropping support.

Obama came in with a whopping 62% mandate of the electorate. Sixty two percent. And over sixty five percent of the American people wanted a Meedicare for all version of healthcare.

He could have done great things. He could have abolished the Federal Reserve. Or at least seen to it that the money was no longer dropped into the laps of the Bankster/Fed/Treasury cartel, but instead went to regional banks, with state charters, serving every part of the nation. (The laws to enforce this are already on the books, and served us well back during the S & L crisis.0

he could have set out with a strong position on SPUHC, which he knew all about and even camapigned on when he ran forthe Senate back in 2004.

but no, he "drifted" merrily along, being all bipartisan.

And many of us smell a rat. If LBJ and FDR could do the things they did, then Obama could have had great success as well. He could have followed their game plan, instead of that of a wishy washy placating fool. "Well uh, now the public option is only a tool, and we don't even know if it will be a part of the final bill."

We didn't need someone posing as Mr. Nice. We needed someone to be a LEADER and bring about the changes for the middle incomed that are desperately needed.

Instead he has fulfilled his bargain with the devil. Palin will be the Repugs' candidate, (even though only 27% of the registered Republicans like her, and they are only 28% of the voting public) and Obama will handily win the next election and get his four more years. And he will be seen objectively as another great Republican President, who saved this nation from the "socialism" of true heath care reform.

[cali]

88. ridiculous. you actually think he could have simply abolished the Federal Reserve?

Were either LBJ or FDR president now, you'd be screeching about how terrible they are. And no, it's exceedingly unlikely that Palin will be the repub nominee.

[truedelphi]

92. He did get to appoint the head of the Fed. And it would not have been

That hard to get someone not affilated with Goldman Sachs. (I'd have put in Barbara Boxer, who is always heads and shoulders above most on economic matters.)

I imagine that I would have liked FDR just fine. I would have especially liked him after his speech in Madison Square Garden, June 1936 - it "is better to be friends with organized crime than organized banking." Bobby Kennedy was rather fond of saying how much he liked FDR, and Bobby had my vote until they killed him off.

I also don't remember being upset with LBJ on economic or domestic issues. Only over Vietnam.

It now turns out that much of what was happening in Vietnam was deemed "Top Secret" and not offered as information or briefings to LBJ. In fact, what Ellsberg released as the Pentagon PApers was stuff that LBJ had no awareness of - the brass had hidden that from him through use of hte "top Secret" calssification.

Both LBJ and FDR were in office years before the "Money Party" took control of the political discussion and activites. A shame that Obama had to bend over for the rules of that party. YThe guy he used to be, circa 2004, was a pretty decent person.

[jpak]

99. Yes, Obama is to Bush what Nixon was to LBJ = bullshit of the highest order

what is wrong with this picture?

[truedelphi]

104. I have not been talking about Obama to Nixon, but Obama to FDR.

Guess you are reading several discussion forums at once?

Anyway when you settle down enough to deal with discussion at hand, I'll play along.

Maybe we will even have a meaningful discussion happen.

[jpak]

97. +1

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[truedelphi]

82. Bush/Cheney had very tight talking points.

They wanted a war on Iraq, and they achieved that, by insisting again and again that we needed to fgight those people there so that the terror would not descend on us here. "You are for us or against us." "Mushroom clouds over cities."

Obama began by compromising. He knew for instance that Single PAyer Universal HC for All is the best solution. And he campaigned on that when running for the Senate in 2004.

Then he flipped that around to "Well SPUHC would be the best choice if we didn't already have a system and NEED TO stay within the existing system.

WTF? As a nation, we are in a crisis but we can't tip over the apple cart? It's broken, but we must stay within its limits? That is not even logical.

So he starts out abandoning logic, and avoiding a tough guy stance. Then he continues to get wishy-washy.

Student in Boulder CO "Mr President, would it even be fair to have the Public Option you propose because it would make it hard for the Major Insurers to compete?"

Obama: "Well, uh, the Public Option is just one tool among many tools, and no one is even sure if it will be in the final bill."

[JVS]

122. Forget the TV camera, try the phone to the DLCers

[JVS]

123. Forget the TV camera, try the phone to the DLCers

[bornskeptic]

137. Take a look at how much Republican opposition LBJ had to Medicare.

In the Senate 13 Republicans voted yes and 17 voted no. In the House 70 Republicans voted yes and 68 voted no.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/tally65.html

[bornskeptic]

138. And here's how much oposition FDR had to Social Security

The vote in the House was 372 to 33. The vote in the Senate was 77 to 6. The opposition that Obama faces on healthcare is far beyond that which FDR had to deal with on Social Security, or that which LBJ faced on Medicare.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/1930.html

[HughMoran]

154. Those are very good numbers to know - thanks for bringing that to my attention

I don't think people realize just how awful the Republicans of today are and how difficult it is for Obama to "thread the needle" on healthcare (and other issues.)

[Lilyeye]

165. Thanks for posting this.

People keep holding Obama to LBJ and Roosevelt standards on getting things passed, but they didn't have to deal with the same type of repuke oppositon we see the repukes doing today.

[treestar]

161. Those things took years to bring about

OMG. Can you be more immature? If you were alive during those times. Heck if you read a book about those times, you'd know that.

[JackRiddler]

163. Oh yeah, I remember when Obama put an Afghanistan withdrawal up for a vote.

[the other one]

3. More like Reagan then Roosevelt

He seems to be a proponent of supply-side economics. The aid seems to be going to the top, and we hope that it will trickle down to us.

[polichick]

11. This is sickenly true - he even wants to give more power to the Fed...

I agree with Ron Paul that the Fed should be audited.

[11 Bravo]

67. "sickenly true"? Were that posted on another website ...

we would call it a "freeperism". Spell check can be your friend.

[polichick]

94. LOL - even Dems type too fast sometimes. Much as I like the prez...

I do find his fondness for the big banks and corporate America sickening.

[truedelphi]

68. Only problem is that as more and more resistance builds towards the Fed, there is more discussion

By the Powers that Be of creating a World-Encompassing Federal Reserve.

So it will just become the "Global Reserve." Unless we are really careful of the manner in which we set up the debate.

[cali]

17. what? he is certainly not a proponent of supply side economics

and anyone who thinks he's akin to Reagan is woefully ignorant.

[HughMoran]

24. .

All I see are reactionary one-liners with zero substance whatsoever.

[polichick]

95. You are woefully ignorant if you haven't noticed that...

"the aid seems to be going to the top, and we hope that it will trickle down to us."

(No big surprise.)

[HughMoran]

6. I'm confused

1) we're pulling out of Iraq as promised
2) we're shutting down Gitmo and trying suspects in the US as promised
3) He's done everything the government is capable of doing to save us from a pending Depression. You may not agree with his tactics, but the jury is still out on whether we will survive this worst of downturns since the Great Depression - but it could have been a LOT worse.
4) He's carefully considering his promise to add enough troops to "get the job done" in Afghanistan.
5) we're likely going to get a good healthcare bill in his first year of office - an accomplishment we've been wanting for 60 years.
6) He's holding a "jobs summit" in December to get ideas on how to help create jobs - perhaps you can send him some ideas - I can't think of a way the government can simply "wish" jobs into existence after the awful downturn created by Bush.

I give Obama an A- - he's done an outstanding job so far.

[anonymous171]

7. #3 is a big pile of bullshit. nt

[Cyrano]

27. Regarding #3, "... it could have been a lot worse."

I guess that falling off a 20 story building is a lot worse than falling off a 10 story building.

As for the rest of your post, there is often a small difference between optimism and fantasy. Although I try to be optimistic, fantasy can often make my head hurt.

[HughMoran]

29. Your opinion is noted

Not sure what you're trying to say, other than optimistic people are fools, but I've noted your opinion.

[tekisui]

37. Response:

1)Very good, but what about escalating Afghanistan?
2)Very good, but what about expanding Bagram?

I agree with the other points.

[ginnyinWI]

77. me too

:thumbsup:

[whistler162]

143. butttt... it wasn't done in the first 10 seconds!!!!

[jpak]

8. Yes, Obama is worse than Bush

grow up

[LWolf]

10. He damned well IS worse than Bush on Education,

and that's saying a lot.

[jpak]

15. He's worse than Bush on everything - read right here on DU

yessireee

:puke:

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cyrano]

33. I don't know which post you were reading, but

no where did I ever say Obama is worse than Bush. The only one worse than Bush is Cheney.

My point is that I'm not overjoyed with Obama's actions or priorities.

Are any of your friends, family, neighbors jobless? Ask them what they think about Obama. This whole thing was caused by Bush (along with 30 years of Republican policies and practices).

Nonetheless, the ball is now in Obama's court.

[cali]

38. Actually, virtually everyone I know is satisfied with the job Obama's been doing

They have the maturity and basic fucking intelligence to know that he has a nearly impossible job. Do they agree with him on everything? Certainly not, but they don't sound ridiculous like a good portion of DU. And they are real progressives. People who've worked on local progressive issues for years.

[HamdenRice]

79. "basic fucking intelligence"

Dag, you have a way with words!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[donco6]

84. You need to get out more. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

89. Fucking intelligence is a great quality in a lover, but I don't need my politicians to have fucking

intelligence. Political intelligence, economic intelligence, and cultural intelligence are more important than fucking intelligence for politicians in my opinion. Though I am happy to hear your report concerning virtually everyone you know and their basic fucking intelligence.

[laugle]

168. Thanks for my

laugh of the night...........LOL

Your a howl..........

[jpak]

40. Many of my friends and family members were jobless or cut back in 2008

and some of them survived on extended unemployment benefits (thanks to Dems and Obama)

All of them are back to full time work (or school) today - some jobs were directly attributable to Obama's stimulus package.

I can see it in my home town and so can everybody else.

Sorry about you.

[Cyrano]

42. Whatever you're seeing where you are ain't happening here

[jpak]

44. Open your eyes

bout all I can tell you

[dana_b]

157. I know four people

in my circle of family/friends that are out of work or losing their business and house. NONE of them think that anyone in politics gives a shit about them. Three of them voted for Obama and today say that it doesn't matter who is in office, although they never said that Obama is worse than *!

I live in California and the unemployment rate is crazy. My one friend has gone through all of her IRA along with unemployment beneftis in order to survive and after the first of the year, if she doesn't get a job, will have to move to Florida to live with her older sister just to have a roof over her head and to be near her ailing parents. SHe'll be butt broke and jobless still.

Right now none of them see that voting for Obama made any difference to the economic situation for them and they don't have much time left. My sister may be losing her business (they just closed down one book store out of the two)at the end of the year and a foreclosure may be close behind. If she and her family need a place, we'll make do.

[donco6]

60. The only immature one on this thread is you.

Obama selected an uninformed head of Education, whose primary goal appears to be replacing public education with private schools. He's even joined forces with Newt G., a man who has NEVER seen eye-to-eye with Democrats on anything - but all of a sudden, he's sympatico on education? WTF? Who moved *that* cheese?

As far as impatient - there's no real need for patience as Obama has made it very clear he has no intention of altering course on NCLB at all. In fact, he wants Duncan to ramp things up even faster. So what's there to be patient about?

[jpak]

81. that's not nice

:evilgrin:

[donco6]

83. Furthermore -

I just spoke with my Congressman, Jared Polis, this week. He's going to be sponsoring a bill to provide more funding for charter schools. Great. This falls hand-in-hand with Colorado's 4 alternatives for schools that fall into the black hole that NCLB sets up for any low-income school. 3 of the 4 alternatives are "convert to a charter." And the fourth is "close the school and distribute the kids elsewhere." And THAT plan is being put forward by our Democratic governor.

And we're supposed to be "patient"?

[Egnever]

124. Newt actualy has some good ideas on education.

What we are doing now is not working. Passing kids on to the next grade despite them not having the basic knowledge needed to be successful is not working. We need to change the model and change it drastically. I have heard newt talk about a system that promotes based on knowledge level not age. So you take third grade reading till you master it then move on instead of the way it is now where you move on basically no matter what.

Pukes have good ideas too every once in a while.

[donco6]

144. So when the kid is shaving in 3rd grade - then what?

We've all thought of that "idea". It's certainly not new to Newtie. But in a small district like mine, where do you physically place the 16 yr old who reads at a 3rd grade level? Do you keep him with his own peers, and have reading levels scattered from one end of the spectrum to another in one classroom? Do you keep him with the 8 yr olds and teach them all the same - (even though some of them are shaving and looking "funny" at the younger girls)? Or do you "group and regroup" as the kid receives grade level instruction and then improves over time? If the latter, then yeah, we're already doing that.

But we don't keep the kid with the 8 yr olds - so if that's "social promotion" then I guess we're guilty.

[opihimoimoi]

16. He STANDS FOR DOING THE RIGHT THING at the RIGHT TIME

as much as possibe....

He is not perfect nor a divine figure....but his track record is stellar and the Econ , while not swimmingly recovered, has escaped a 30% unemployment and a major DEPRESSION

The Pubs ignore to pound him so as to improve their odds come nx year....

they will be slaughtered as do the lambs in a Rack of Lamb Facility.....

[LWolf]

21. Bullshit.

Privatizing and union-busting in the arena of public education is not the right thing to do at this time, or at any time.

[Starry Messenger]

28. Let us know when you come back to planet Earth

Not all of us can afford to stay high all day

[opihimoimoi]

35. I ain't changing ma mind...one giga bit

[PurityOfEssence]

39. What if there's never a "right time"?

His concept of the "right time" seems to be when both sides of the aisle agree with him and there's no real opposition. If that were ever to happen, what would we need a President for?

This poisonous need to be loved by everyone is basically what ruined Clinton's presidency, and the parallels are just plain depressing, as many here have pointed out.

[opihimoimoi]

63. and what if there IS A RIGHT TIME??? Look for the GOOD is a virtue

[ZombieHorde]

90. How do you feel about the escalation of the Afghanistan war?

Is the escalation the RIGHT THING at the RIGHT TIME?

[opihimoimoi]

117. The right time??? This we cannot know now....we must trust our leaders...they

know more than we do re the sit.

We have become a Nation of armchair quarterbacks.....so it seems...

[Starry Messenger]

132. "trust our leaders"?

My dear sir, I have had relatives who were in elected office. Any asshole with a great marketing campaign can get elected to office. Trust me, they need accountability.

[pecwae]

142. Dear God!

"We must trust our leaders,"?? This is the most naive statement I've ever read here.

[QC]

149. This sentiment sounds familiar....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82py_wk5vE4

[ZombieHorde]

153. "We have become a Nation of armchair quarterbacks"

Is not this our job as voters? We can not know all state secrets, but we are supposed to judge our politicians and candidates, and then vote accordingly.

we must trust our leaders

Why must we trust our leaders?

[opihimoimoi]

166. To the degree of giving doubt....if they be fucking up....then I will join you...

but for now...I try to look at big picture....he is our leader for the nx 4 years....we are stuck with him,...unless he be screwing around...

Over all, I think he is on target with a change for the better...

way better than the Palin/GOP Crowd...

[JCMach1]

18. So far, governing somewhere to the right of Bill Clinton-

30 years ago, that would have meant Republican...

[Individualist]

41. +1

[SammyWinstonJack]

127. +1 nt

[Wiley50]

22. Hemorrhoids? n/t

[Aramchek]

23. Concern Ahoy!!

[RedRubberBall]

25. But he isnt BUSH !!

Isn't that what matters?

[Greyhound]

26. Profits and corporate hegemony. n/t

[2tr4nqued]

30. I will not vote for Obama if he escalates in Afghanistan

I have made a petition for people who agree here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

[jpak]

32. Did you vote for him the first time?

n/t

[2tr4nqued]

45. No I did not vote for him the first time

But I could vote for him the second time. But a vote to continue killing nixes any hope. I can't believe any decent person would vote for someone who would increase the killing. They are certainly not liberal, and if that's what progressive is, then progressive is murderous and vile.

But some people are opposed to killing even if Democrats are doing it. They should sign my petition

No votes for Obama if he keeps killing:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

I will not be blackmailed into supporting murder.

[jpak]

61. Who did you vote for?

:evilgrin:

[Yuugal]

93. Well said

I'm tired of this idea that war and bailouts for rich criminals is bad when repukes do it, but perfectly fine when Obama does it. It is bad enough he has zero leadership skills and zero spine but repuke policies on top of that mean the masses will realize they have been had(which they have) and we are going to get hammered in 2010.

Obama is is going to get it from both sides: half our party is furious at his Bush II approach to policy.....and the repukes will all be against us. Thats why these generic polls look so bad. For the latte libs, sure, they were doing fine before and they will do fine now. For us working class, disabled, and poor progressives.....well, I for one despise him already.

I lived through the 90's and living through that disappointment again is just too much. I'd rather see the dems lose and try again next time with more honest people if all we are going to get from these people is more corporatist bullshit.

[jpak]

96. "I'd rather see the dems lose and try again next time"

astonishing

After 8 years of Bush, you really want to go back to Bush and Cheney and Newt and Reagan and McCain and Palin ?

Is that what you want?

I think that's just plain stupid.

ugh

[Yuugal]

103. You can disagree, thats America

But my conscience just wont let me vote for any more corporatists like Obama or his warmongering crew. I have kids and I want them to come into adulthood in a better world. Since there is very little difference between Bush and Obama on my issues, I'd like to see him out in 2012 so we can get the suffering over sooner and lesson the damage Obama's pro-rich policies, and the inevitable repuke tool that follows him, will do.

When I heard about Pacific rim Nafta, that was the final straw for me. Obama ran against Nafta and now wants more outsourcing and more suffering for the same American workers he suckered into voting for him? My little town is dying up here and that asshole wont do a damn thing about it. But he has trillions for his Goldman Sachs friends and lots of spots in his admin for them; the same crooks who destroyed our economy in the first place.

He is a shameless warmonger, he wont do anything for gay rights or workers rights unless someone holds a gun to his head, and all the time we were supposed to give him is up in my mind. He has had a year and has not done a single thing for the little guy. His shit health care will cancel my kids ins and make me pay for it our of my disability check, as if I'd ever to be able to make copays or buy medicine anyway. Obama is a liar and a sellout and just like Clinton, who made 100 mill in 6 years giving "speeches" to all the people he did favors for after he left office, Obama will cash in big after his one term and laugh at all us poor people just like every other pres we've had in my adult life. His kids will be set for life and be part of the rich aristocracy. My kids get jobs at taco bell. Fuck Obama.

By the time we go through 8 yrs of Obumble giving the treasury away to rich people, 4-8 yrs of the repuke stooge that follows him, and have a real chance at a progressive govt......my kids will be too old to get a decent start in life.

[jpak]

107. say hi to ralph for me

:rofl:

[Yuugal]

110. I'm not a Nader fan

I understand people like you like to pigeonhole everyone, but try to grasp the fact that it is arrogance like yours that is driving half our party away. Nader is an asshole for union-busting in his own office and I wouldn't vote for that self-serving turd if he ran for dogcatcher.

It's always fun on DU to take time to write out a detailed post on why you think like you do, only to realize some trouble-making asshole just wanted to waste your time.

[jpak]

115. It's pretty obvious that you are not a fan of Democrats or Obama

and that you want a divided Democratic Party or maybe a liberal 3rd party to compete with the idiot teabaggers.

I gots no patience for that kind of defeatist bullshit.

none

[Yuugal]

119. Yet another message board psychic

Its pretty clear to me you haven't a clue what dem values really are and just root for your team whatever they do. Good luck with that and enjoy nafta2 for the pacific rim..... from the guy who ran against nafta.

[Freddie Stubbs]

152. He did pretty will without your vote last time

[HughMoran]

36. You couldn't have voted for him in the first place since escalation was a campaign promise

:freak:

[2tr4nqued]

43. Would you care more if they were your kids

being killed by the American military?

[HughMoran]

46. That's a different argument.

Don't change the subject when you've been cornered.

[2tr4nqued]

49. We are talking about killing people here.

You are making excuses for it. So, you can do that, make excuses for killing. There's not going to be much we agree on. We can't even talk, actually. We disagree on fundamentals.

[HughMoran]

51. Do I have to emphatically state that I'm against killing when pointing out that your argument is

hypocritical?

OK, I despise war and killing BUT Obama promised to escalate in Afghanistan.

Spin that any way your agenda likes it.

[2tr4nqued]

54. He will be running for re-election

He needs to be made afraid he will lose that election. We have to either honestly or in bluff convince him that if he sends more troops to Afghanistan, he is done. That is what my petition is about. Americans need to threaten Obama with a 2012 loss if he escalates in Afghanistan.

5 seconds to sign a petition?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

Or 20 minutes to have an argument?

[HughMoran]

58. I went to sign it

But it really isn't well written (looks like it was written by a kid) and I will still vote for him as this is not the only issue I care about.

[2tr4nqued]

69. It's short. You don't like? It says all that's needed to be said.

I exchange my vote for not killing. If Obama escalates the killing, I won't vote for him. What else is there to say? That's the whole idea of shutting up. There are no rationales acceptable for killing. There doesn't need to be a discussion. We move right to the deal. I have a vote. The president has the power to stop the wars. I am holding my vote ransom, and the ransom is not escalating the wars. That's hardly anything to ask at all.

But hey, it's other people getting killed. I don't even know them and couldn't say their names if I did. So I don't lose sleep. Do you?

The problem is that Obama has been telling us reasons for why killing is okay with him. He needs to stop peddling murder. That's why I said shut up, because I mean it.

But murder has actually become a lot more palatable to everyone since Bush was president. We hardly even mind it anymore, amirite?

[jpak]

50. I had family members that watched the WTC collapse on 9/11 and had their apts filled with smoke

from those buildings.

I had other family members that evacuated Manhattan on foot that day that could not call anyone on their cell phones - no one knew where they were until they stepped through the door that night.

There are some wars that needed to be fought.

Obama has not revealed his Afghanistan strategy and you certainly do not know anything about his decision.

Obama doesn't want us in Afghanistan forever (he said so) and most of our troops in Iraq will be home by 2012.

No thanks to Bush, Cheney, McCain or Palin.

Thanks to Obama

[2tr4nqued]

55. If Obama escalates in Afghanistan, I will not vote for him.

Here is my petition for people who are sufficiently opposed to escalating in Afghanistan:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/shut-up-and-bring-them-home-if-you-want-our-vote

[jpak]

57. Did you vote for him the first time? If not, your vote hasn't changed in that repect

just sayin'

[HughMoran]

59. "If we can just get that one Republican vote..."

:freak:

[2tr4nqued]

65. What do you mean change?

There are two votes. One in 2008 and one in 2012. That is two separate events. My vote in 2008 does not determine my vote in 2012. I am a liberal. I would like to vote Democratic. I would like to vote for Obama. I really would. But if he pushes the war further, then no way. And I think anyone is free to say that. We're talking about killing people here. We're not talking about swatting mosquitos. What is it with Americans and their complete lack of regard for the lives of the people they kill? I just don't get it.

So my vote is very much congintent upon his Afghanistan decision. My vote is an open question; I'm undecided. But my vote is contingent upon de-escalation. Period.

Whose isn't? You'll vote for killing? Really? Gosh. How very, very low.

[jpak]

70. "I would like to vote Democratic" Welcome to DU!

:evilgrin:

[2tr4nqued]

74. Thanks.

I've been off and on for years.

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. That's not true. I voted for him IN SPITE of that.

There were many other issues for me such as DADT, DOMA, the renegotiation of NAFTA, all of which I'm told I should be patient about because they are sure to be resolved sometime in the coming millennium.

However, if the number of boots on the ground in Afghanistan are not dwindling rapidly by 11/2012, I shan't vote for him again.

[HughMoran]

56. Your choice

I'm not going to try to argue about what hasn't happened yet.

[hunter]

31. He's got a huge bag of flaming shit on his front porch...

...and sense enough not to stomp the flames out with his bare feet.

Or maybe it's like a grease fire. Bad idea to spray it with water.

I've still got hope.

:shrug:

[theophilus]

34. He stands for more of what I believe than just about anyone I can think of. We need to be

happy with a Democrat in the White House that will do more good than harm. If we can never be happy with our country then we are of most people miserable. I can still expect progress. He has done many good things already. GWB only did one or two things I agreed with in his whole "presidency". I'm sure he did them by accident. Anyway, it seems that some claiming to be Liberals can never be satisfied and don't seem to like people at all. Just my opinion, but you asked.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

47. To me?

He's not Bush...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. Like most politicians, he stands for getting elected and re-elected.

All other considerations are a distant second.

[SammyWinstonJack]

128. Sad but true. nt

[ginnyinWI]

52. Obama stands for the same things we elected him for.

Sanity, rule of law, being deliberative and rational, strong enough to resist those factions that would try to take control, like the military. Patience, honesty, a spirit of cooperation with the rest of the world. An eye toward economics, science, and social services. Jobs, healthcare, national security. Respect for the Constitution and against cronyism and lobbyists.

The man has a million things on his plate. Being President in 2009 is no day in the park. Give him a little break and be patient! When he is out of office, then you can be his judge.

[HughMoran]

62. It's really that simple

It's easy to focus on one issue and condemn him for not doing exactly what you wanted, but if one considers the whole of his job responsibilities, the shit platter that he was given and how superior his basic approach is too every problem he confronts and it seems almost ludicrous to me that people are ready to hang him after just 10 months.

[liberal_at_heart]

64. I'll give him one thing and it's a biggie

I think Obama saved us from a second great depression and I think bailing out the banks was part of what saved us. He gave Wall Street a bail out which I think had to happen, HOWEVER, he never put regulations on the banks. He didn't give main street an effective bail out. Banks were giving out outrageous bonuses while Americans lost their jobs and their homes and small businesses couldn't get loans. I think when he even mentioned regulation all those really super rich people who have billions of dollars in the stock market bailed out of the stock market and then used it as blackmail. Now that there is no regulation the stock market and all its fat cats are happy again. And I get to be grateful because my measly few thousand dollars in stock went up a little bit instead of going down. Oh, thank you fat cats. Thank you.

[azmouse]

66. I'm gonna hold my breath until Obama does exactly what *I* want....

'cause nobody else matters but me! It's all about me.

[Ozymanithrax]

71. Some answers for your questions...

I have no idea why Obama hasn't used the full power of the "bully pulpit" to crush Republicans and blue dog Dems who oppose health care for everyone.

(1) Obama ran with a promise to fight in Afghanistan and withdraw from Iraq. He is doing both.
(2) The bully pulpit has no real power beyond persuasion. Nothing he can do from the bully pulpit will "crush Republicans and blue dog Dems." Actually, he has repeatedly called for a bipartisan effort and stood by while the Senate and the House have repeatedly appealed to Republicans. He even called the one Republican in Congress that voted for their bill.

I have no idea why Obama has bailed out Wall Street and banks, and ignored us.

He appointed wall street people to save the economy. It is his policy to bail out the banks because he accepts the position that collapsing the American banking system would have been bad for the country. Considering his appointments, what happened is his policy.

But in the meantime, how do the jobless pay a mortgage or rent? How do they put food on the table.

They don't unless more jobs are created.

Why is he bragging that the Dow Jones is up, while middle America is down?

Look at who he appointed as economic advisor's and to run the economy. They are all big banks and wall street folk.

Why is he kissing Olympia Snowe's ass? ?

He believes in building consensus through bipartisan effort. Olympia Snowe gives him that cover. What happens in the oval office stays in the oval office. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

When is he going to start kicking ass?

I've got the impression that he thinks he is kicking ass. There are many who thought Obama was this great progressive. I never saw him as anything more than a slightly left of Center politician, who allied with anti-gay ministers and wall street bankers to get elected and craft his econmic plan.

Note on Attila the Hun: According to history, he died on his wedding night after imbibing in too much alcohol, passed out, and drowned in his own blood from a bad nosebleed. He was not beaten in battle. I doubt that Obama intends to invite all the Republicans to a blow out frat party and get them so drunk they pass out and get nose bleeds.

[ThatPoetGuy]

72. I'm curious why people are surprised by this.

I mean, candidate Obama ran to the right of both Hillary and Edwards, criticizing everything from trial lawyers to publicly optioned health care -- and his criticisms were VICIOUS. His primary campaign promoted both sexism and homophobia. I held my nose and voted for him on election day, but I voted for him more because of Biden (and Palin's lunacy, and McCain's abortion record). I have to say, his presidency, while conservative, has been less right-wing than he led us to expect.

[liberal_at_heart]

73. Obama was my third choice

Edwards was my first choice, Hillary my second and Obama my third. I know Edwards would have been a publicity nightmare after his affair came out but much like John Kennedy and Bill Clinton no matter what they did in the sack they were still good presidents and I think Edwards would have done alot for the poor and the middle class when this financial mess hit.

[suzie]

100. Edwards, who had so little interest in the American public and their view of

politicians that he worked with a hedge fund between trying to get to be President? That John Edwards--the one who was already rich?

The John Edwards who thought he could pull a fast one over everyone and get to be President while having a mistress and cheating on his dying wife of how many years? The one who had young children whose mother was dying and he was out with another woman?

You think that John Edwards would have done more for the middle class? I have some swampland to sell you.

And I was an early Edwards supporter, but I can't imagine a worse president than John Edwards. The man is an arrogant liar of unbelievable proportions.

[liberal_at_heart]

105. what about the Kennedys?

There is nothing that says you can't be rich and help the poor. I'm sorry he had an affair on his wife but that does not mean he could not be a good president. John Kennedy and Bill Clinton were both good presidents and they both had affairs.

[suzie]

134. What about them?

It was not the post-Clinton era, when having a mistress would be a campaign killer. And Clinton's mistresses at the time of his campaign were in the past. Edwards had a mistress in his campaign and a sympathetic, terminally ill wife--a campaign ender.

John Edwards wasn't just rich and focusing on the poor, he joined a hedge fund that was in the midst of the subprime mess and would end up foreclosing on lots of poor people. Either Edwards didn't know about that--in which case, he was an awfully poor lawyer. And since being a good lawyer was about his only credential for being President, that doesn't recommend him highly.

Or he knew about it and didn't care--which gives a good indication that his talk about poverty was just that, talk. And I believe that the poverty initiatives that Edwards fundraised for or promised to aid, all disappeared after his campaign was over.

Edwards acted like he was stuck with the awkward, stiff John Kerry and that he was this sincere, idealistic guy. Turns out that Kerry was the Eagle Scout that he seemed to be and Edwards the insincere creep.

In Edwards you backed a guy that was not worthy of your support, that happens to all of us.

[Lord Helmet]

80. Horseshit. He ran to the left of Edwards and Clinton's IWR votes.

Edwards repented. Hillary did not, and she currently is advising Obama to escalate in Afghanistan.

Calling Obama's campaign "vicious" is absurd. It was Clinton that used a http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=3374">racist strategy in her campaign.

[ThatPoetGuy]

108. There's more to life than Iraq.

On health care, Obama was the most right-wing of the Democratic frontrunners.

On abortion.

On gay rights. Obama issued a notpology for publicizing vicious, pro-violent gay-hater Donnie McClurkin -- but issued a serious apology for allowing a gay man to speak, _even though he only was allowed to read scripture_.

On labor.

And even on Iraq, Edwards and Richardson and others were to the left of Obama.

But hey, Obama had condemned the IWR some years earlier, so I guess that made him ultra-liberal -- in the minds of people who were paying no attention, no no no attention at all.

He's been a center-to-right president, after being a much more conservative candidate -- who took it as a given that progressives weren't listening to his words. He was right.

[anonymous171]

98. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Obama was a total fucking wimp during the primaries.

He toughened up for the general (only because McCain's evil campaign forced him to) and went on to win the presidency because of it. Unfortunately it looks like he has fallen back into his old ways by refusing to take a stand for anything substantial.

[ThatPoetGuy]

112. A total fucking wimp --

who managed to trash the reputations of many of our most important liberals (Krugman and others), while helping portray powerful women as scary witches, who condemned trial lawyers and labor interests. Obama's voice is only strong when attacking liberals. I'd love to see him bring some of that nastiness to the right wing, but I'll be surprised if it happens.

[ProSense]

114. "while helping portray powerful women as scary witches, " Oh my. n/t

[ThatPoetGuy]

118. Ignorance paired with sarcasm posing as wisdom, oh my.

http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/barack-obama-on-saturday-night-live-video/

You can watch it yourself. Had it been a Republican who went on TV to help portray a powerful woman as "a scary witch," it would have made it into the Top Ten Conservative Idiots.

[ProSense]

120. How utterly stupid. n/t

[ThatPoetGuy]

130. It is sad that someone can come on here, with a sigline like yours,

calling for the betterment of the world through our ideals, and yet, ultimately, embrace ignorance, and refuse to see an ugly truth.

I know there's nothing I can say that will make you a better person than you are, no matter how easily you could do so on your own.

[butterfly77]

75. Well,maybe you would get your answer if...

you ask the Repubs and the damn bluedogs to stop blocking everything. Maybe we will have to wait until all of the moles and the leakers are weeded out in the all areas of government who love the status quo.

We need to change the way the rest of the stimulus will be used but or maybe another one but,leave up to the media to lie about what will happen because they and the politicians don't care about anything but their portfolios,and the money they have invested overseas.

THEY DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT US!!!GET IT! They care about their money and they really think that we will all take it out on the President but they will receive the surprise of their lives if this keeps going on and it isn't going to be pretty.

They really believe that they can keep depriving the American people while they sit in their gated communities and dictate how we are suppose to behave and take it while they are reaping all of the benefits.

Crime is getting worser and worser and these silly ass Republicons and some Dems are talking about some more damn tax cuts when they have put taxcuts in every damn bill that comes up an we haven't seen these motherfuckers create a job yet..

[anigbrowl]

85. "I have no idea why the hell we are still in Iraq or Afghanistan." That's your own fault..

You don't have to agree with it. I respect your right to believe and say that policy is wrong - morally, strategically, whatever you like. But to say 'you have no idea' just implies that you weren't paying attention and you thought he was going to just end the wars. If you voted for him on the basis of your anti-war emotions without listening to the substance of his campaign commitments, then you are a fool. I'm not saying this to insult you, but to point out that projecting your personal ideals onto someone who gives you a certain kind of feeling, instead of listening to exactly what they're promising, is foolish and dangerous.

'Hope' and 'change' are not policy positions. They're motivations to develop a particular policy position. I mostly agree with Obama's policies. I disagree with some. But I made damn sure before the election to pay attention to his policy positions and so far he has stuck to them pretty closely. So I'm not going through post-election depression because I'm getting about what I expected since fall 2007.

He said all along that there would be escalation in Afghanistan. I don't understand how you could possibly have missed this. He also said he'd organize an orderly withdrawal from Iraq. That's in progress - in case you hadn't noticed, casualties there are way down, and now mainly from accidents rather than combat. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties_current.htm This is progress.

[Bonn1997]

109. The OP didn't say they were surprised by what we're doing in Iraq and Aghanistan; they said they

didn't understand what we're doing there. I'd agree 100%.

[Vidar]

91. K&R

[Cleita]

101. The status quo I assume

for the top 10% of the richest businesses in American and the world for that matter. His administration and Congress will get around to throwing us unwashed masses a few bones to shut us up, and that's more than the Republicans are willing to do.

[Spider Jerusalem]

106. You DO realise that you were voting for a president and NOT a messiah, yes?

Cutting losses in Afghanistan and just fucking off out of it = broadcasting a visible sign of weakness. It's called Realpolitik.

Working with conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans in order to achieve some legislative goals? Necessary given the make-up of the House and Senate. The President is not an absolute monarch and does not rule by decree. To get things done without an absolute veto-proof majority in both houses of Congress means brokering deals and making concessions. Again, it's called politics.

I'm not sure exactly what makes you think that allowing major financial institutions to fail on top of what's already been the worst financial crisis since 1929 would be a good idea, either. Apart from the fact that it would very probably make things a good deal WORSE.

[anonymous171]

113. I am not willing to sacrifice more lives just so we can look tough

And working with conservative "democrats" and "moderate" republicans is a ridiculous idea. How can you work with people who want nothing more than the destruction of America? They wouldn't work with us, we should not work with them. The goal of politics is VICTORY, not compromise. Obama should be focusing on smashing the GOP, not placating them. Our ideas are better, their ideas don't work. It's time we recognized that fact.

[Spider Jerusalem]

116. Good luck getting anything through Congress without a definitive majority in both houses.

Politically naive much?

[akbacchus_BC]

125. You break it, then you have to fix it! The US has a moral obligation to

get out of Iraq! Two invasions!

[liquid diamond]

129. ***yawn***

Another Obama bashing thread. Unrec. Maybe I should hang out at free republic. Both places post the same kind of bullshit.

[jimmyflint]

135. Relax !!! Damn.

All this shit takes time. You can't expect to instantly change years of american policy and tradition over night. The President of the U.S.A. is not a God, dictator, or some kind of omni-power. The powers of the president are limited. the true power to write, regulate, and enforce the law lays at the feet of congress afaik.

[timzi]

141. But - He IS A Dictator When It Comes To Use Of The Military

and I've been waiting to see if his performance on Afghanistan will reflect
his professed ideals and rhetoric. I've kind of given up on him, but hope to
be proven wrong. He has been a monumental failure on health care.

[DailyGrind51]

139. Getting re-elected, like all other politicians.

The only politicians who really stick their necks out are those who don't plan to run again.

[Renew Deal]

140. You were too busy "knocking yourself out" to pay attention to what Obama said.

He said he wanted to be out of Iraq in 16 months.
He said he wanted to increase the number of soldiers in Afghanistan.
He supported TARP.

Don't blame Obama for doing what he said. If you don't like it, it's your fault, not his.

[Hepburn]

146. My agenda -- Why I worked for Obama:

1. End the wars;

2. Health care reform; and

3. Rights for gays, bi's and transgendered persons.

So far? He scores a mega -0- with me.

...sigh...

[Echo In Light]

150. The notion that US presidents are all powerful decision makers is part of the fantastic mythology

Puppets have powerful, hallowed institutions, and business interests they work for and answer to as their handlers provide the necessary 'democracy' scripting that create the necessary illusion Power needs The People to abide in order to sustain the ruse.

[Freddie Stubbs]

151. I guess that you were knocked out during the campaing when Obama explained why we we in Afghanistan:

http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php

[branders seine]

156. those in power tirelessly protect the status quo,

because they *are* the status quo.

[FormerDittoHead]

158. The sarcastic answer: "To get re-elected" n/t

[treestar]

159. Anyone who "knocked themselves out" to get him elected

is still a cheerleader. Sorry, fail. It's just not human nature. No one who really worked for him would be disillusioned at this point.

[yodoobo]

162. Obama stands for YOU

It seems that many people thought they were electing themselves and are dismayed that the person who actually won, doesn't do everything EXACTLY as they would have. No. You didn't elect yourself. You elected a LEADER - perhaps the finest leader we have seen in a generation.

Obama is doing a fine job. He has done more than most President do in 8 years and there are 7 years more to go in his term.

Lastly, We all owe Obama a huge thank you for saving our country from the brink. Its the least we can do for Him.

[johnaries]

164. He stands for exactly what he said during his campaign. I'm sorry

if you think that just because he is now President that he has some kind of "magical powers".

Remember, he never said "Yes, I can." He said "Yes, WE can."

When he quoted a Native American proverb, he didn't change it to "I am the one you have been waiting for." He qouted it accurately: "WE are the ones we have been waiting for".

Obama never said "I" can do it. He repeatedly said "WE" can do it. And now "we" are abandoning him because we are too fucking lazy to keep on doing our part. "I helped him get elected, what more do you want?"

Fucking whiner. Go ahead, give up. Just get out of the way of those of us who still believe and who want to work to actually get something accomplished.

Lead, follow, or get out of the fucking way!

Look, I don't mind constructive criticism - but when I see DESTRUCTIVE criticism I get rankled. If you have something constructive to add, then do so. If you want to be an obstructionist, BE A REPUBLICAN!

[opihimoimoi]

167. I wish I could send cold beer, hot lobsters. and a whole LUAU..Ya said it ALL...:o)

Kick