Arne Duncan draws "line in the sand". Supports education policies of Gingrich.

[madfloridian]

Arne said he was drawing a line in the sand on Meet The Press today. I could only think how ironic that the first "line in the sand" drawn by this administration is on the issue of education....with Newt Gingrich and Al Sharpton getting equal billing for their views.

The party refused to draw a line in the sand on the public option in health care reform.

From MTP in June with Axelrod:

Gregory pushes the issue, says why no ultimatum from the president, asks why he doesn't say the bill must have it or he won't sign it. Axelrod's answer astonishes me, yet I know it it should not.

MR. AXELROD: Look, we have gotten a long way down the road by not drawing bright lines in the sand, other than on the major points, which is that we can't add to the deficit with this healthcare reform, so it has to be paid fore, it has to reduce costs, and we want to make sure that all Americans have a quality, affordable health care. Those are the, those are the things that have to be accomplished. People have different ideas. We're willing to listen to those ideas. But that's where we're--that--those are the imperatives that we have to sell.

This last week the Democratic House refused to draw a line about women's rights. After much consultation with the Catholic bishops and a phone call from Rome....Nancy Pelosi allowed a vote on an amendment that said "screw you" to the women of the party.

Rochester, NY: I am an obstetrician/gynecologist, and the Stupak amendment worries me. Its premise is that abortion can be easily separated from the rest of health care. But I have a hard time accepting that this country wants to hurt pregnant woman.

This amendment would inflict special punishment on those who are ready to become mothers but whose pregnancies are making their medical conditions worse. A lot of damage can be done before a woman reaches the life-threatening stage when the Stupak amendment would relent and allow payment for abortion.

Because of their health problems, these women must have their abortions in the hospital, racking up thousands of dollars in bills that destroy their families' finances.

Is it true that the Stupak amendment would prohibit an insurance company in the exchange from covering my patient's abortion if her health is in danger or if the fetus is malformed?

Lori Montgomery: That is the fear, yes. Right now the language is the same as the Hyde amendment -- no abortion except in the case of rape, incest or to "save the life of the mother." I'm guessing that last category is open to wide interpretation, however.

HOWEVER

The appointed Democratic Secretary of Education under the Obama administration has been the first to draw a line in the sand.

He has drawn a line in the sand for the long-time education dreams of Newt Gingrich.

Introduce competition among schools and teachers

We should apply the free enterprise system to our education system by introducing competition among schools, administrators, and teachers. Our educators should be paid based on their performance and held accountable based on clear standards with real consequences. These ideas are designed to stimulate thinking beyond the timid “let’s do more of the same” that has greeted every call for rethinking math and science education.
Source: Gingrich Communications website, www.newt.org Dec 1, 2006

Support charters; insist on change for failing schools

We should encourage the spread of public charter schools--one of the happiest new developments on the education scene--so parents, educators, & students working together can enjoy the maximum freedom to explore options and innovations until every child has a genuine opportunity to learn. As a corollary of this, we must identify the worst schools. We should insist on immediate change for bad schools. To start with, there should be no tenure and no binding contracts in the worst 20% of schools.
Source: Lessons Learned the Hard Way, by Newt Gingrich, p.208 Jul 2, 1998

Private scholarships for students at hopeless schools

If there were families left without an acceptable public school, scholarships should be available for them to find a private one. I am a graduate of a public school, as are my wife and two daughters. All of us remain committed to the idea of public education. However, if the available public school is one that gives parents legitimate worry for their children’s future, there ought to be alternative to having to stand helplessly watching an incompetent bureaucracy destroy their children’s lives.
Source: Lessons Learned the Hard Way, by Newt Gingrich, p.209 Jul 2, 1998

Finally

Finally a Democratic leader draws a line in the sand...on the education policies of a right wing Republican.

[cornermouse]

1. k & r

Count me in. :grr:

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Duncan is deplorable

He never raised test scores in Chicago either. Other than playing basketball with Obama, why was he named Sec of Ed?

[madfloridian]

3. I just feel worn out....

watching the dismantling of public education so openly.

And seeing the rights of women so stepped upon.

[GreenArrow]

21. "why was he named Sec of Ed"

You said it yourself, he plays basketball withe Prez. That, and he's a slick salesman.

[alp227]

52. Bush-like cronyism at work!

Our previous president picked a good friend to lead FEMA...look what happened in the end of summer 2005 as a result!

[GreenArrow]

79. "Arne, you're doin' a heck of a job!"

Selling this rubbish to the American people.

[rapturedbyrobots]

40. because he

much like obama is a firm believer in the market solution to everything. including education. its in their neoliberal genes. and neolibs always stick together.

bush admin's agenda was to privatize the military. obama admin's agenda is to privatize everything else.

[LWolf]

4. Obama and Duncan

are blatant enemies of public education.

I don't know any other way to say it.

And the Democratic Party, and Democrats, in supporting this attack, have become enemies as well.

[madfloridian]

5. Yes, you are right. And it makes me sad.

.

[LWolf]

9. At this point, I'm well beyond sad

and fully into implacable rage.

[tonysam]

13. It takes a Democrat to destroy public education

The deterioration has virtually happened overnight, the minute NCLB passed Congress and Bush signed it into law. Obama and Duncan support this piece of anti-democratic shit with perhaps a little tweaking here and there.

Then you have billionaires like Bloomberg, Broad, and Gates pumping hundreds of millions of dollars in projects to destroy the system.

[LWolf]

14. Yes.

Democrats can achieve the destruction a hell of a lot faster and more efficiently, because they aren't SUPPOSED to, so people give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Catshrink]

6. Remember that NONE of those three stooges has ever taught in a public school

Newtie taught at a university but not K-12. None of them. They don't know the job. Teachers are only part of the equation but get all of the blame. They're going to continue down this path of destroying education and undermining teachers in the classroom. And they'll end up with inexperienced cheerleaders who produce drones who can fill in little ovals on scantron forms. Where's the innovation in that? They'll produce even more kids who can't think.

What I need:

Parents who make their kids go to bed at a reasonable hour.
Parents who make sure their kids eat before coming to school -- not sugar and caffeine, but nutritionally sound food.
Parents who disable their kids cell phones during school hours - or at least monitor their usage.
Parents who monitor their kids for substance abuse instead of denying that their child would ever do drugs.
Parents who make sure their kids get their homework done and study for tests.
Parents who respond to my emails and phone messages about their kids' progress or behavior.
Parents who instill in their kids a desire for learning and respect for teachers and their fellow students.
Parents who monitor the work hours of their kids and curtail them if they are interferring with school.
Parents who allow their kids to face the consequences of poor decisions as a lesson in life -- and not castigate the teacher or administration for enforcing the rules.

Students who aren't so distracted by their extracurricular activities that they can't focus on school.
Students who care about their education and make an effort throughout the semester instead of begging for extra credit when they realize that they can't make up enough points on the final to save their asses.
Students who pay attention instead of texting their friends.
Students who do their homework/classwork instead of copying their friends' assignments.
Students with a sense of honor who don't cheat.

Administrators who are consistent in enforcing the rules and meting out consequences.
Administrators who limit field trips that are mostly for entertainment with little educational value.
Administrators who insist on professional courtesy among the staff.
Administrators who aren't afraid of parents and will hold them accountable for their kids' lack of effort and poor attendance.

[reggie the dog]

81. but we teachers are just supposed to

take all of the responsibility see, the parents and kids are certainly not responsible for themselves or their own actions. If I understood anything about neoliberals it is that they think that everyone ELSE is personally responsible for their fuckups

[Starry Messenger]

7. Fucking Gingrich. Stupid Duncan.

This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. Free market schools?

[JCMach1]

8. Duncan needs to freaking go... seriously was only picked because he is a personal Obama crony

[Fire1]

15. Wasn't it said that he turned the Chicago Schools around? n/t

[madfloridian]

20. That was said.

But never proved.

[Dinger]

24. Here's An Article About arne and Chicago

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/23_03/arne233.shtml

Long. but devastating.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. He didn't turn them around; he just aimed them in a different direction

Test scores didn't go up in Chicago under Duncan.

[reggie the dog]

83. school funding did go down in schools with poor test scores

I taught for my student teaching year at Clemente High School in the Puerto Rican nieghborhood of Chicago. The kids were great, the half that wanted to graduate. Very politically active, many teachers, staff, and students were at the small anti war rally the day the Iraq war started. Many bright bilingual kids who wanted no war for imperialism. The other half or so of the kids were largely gangsters. We knew of 14 gangs who were represented at the school, plus many kids had small start up gangs of 5 to 10 members based on the drug trade. Some cops and school security were in the gangs too. There was an open air drug store all around the school after school and the cops turn the other way. I had a student who wasnt a gangster get shot in the arm (covering his face) at seven am walking to school. Bike bys and drive bys are far too common. How in the hell can anyone blame us teachers for this? How can you say that we deserve to have our funding cut Arnie? Have you ever been to Humboldt Park? I bet your ass is scared to go there even during daylight hours much less to arive when it is still dark to go to work during the winter months. So this school gets it funding cut but magnet schools, which have entrance exams and only take the best students get funding increases because their test scores are high.........CLASS WARFARE! It is looking like Obama is an Uncle Tom.

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. I hear ya

We have much to overcome to help urban kids succeed. It gets pretty frustrating.

[reggie the dog]

129. I only did it for a year

Now I teach in a catholic school in France because the public sector has far less posts for "foreigners" here in France than the private sector does. But get this, the kids pay for the school building, upkeep and trips and the public "education nationale" pays the teachers and staff. The catch is tuition price control. The school also has all prayer and religions services as options. Of course this school selects who they let in it so they can say they have great results bla bla bla.... I do like teaching history in English so as much as I would love to work in the public sector it is just too damn hard for someone born and educated in the USA to break into the French pulbic system. I still do see the need to have quality public education.

[Hannah Bell]

72. no. it was just PR spin.

[KamaAina]

137. He slashed the special ed budget by 80 percent

says my director, who was a disability activist in Chicago at the time.

So it's less that he turned them around than that he put them in reverse. :eyes:

[slipslidingaway]

10. knr nt

[madrchsod]

11. separate and unequal education

it`s an end around the equal education for all.

it really is offense that a democratic president is willing to do this.

[madfloridian]

12. MTP transcript link. I hope that intervew gets the attention of some teachers

who are still in denial.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33931557/ns/meet_the_press

[JCMach1]

17. The administration has really crossed the Rubicon for me now...

I have been content to wait and see what happens. I didn't have great expectations, but damn it they were greater than what we have seen.

This weekend has pushed me over that boundary... talk of a NAFTA for Asia, Duncan out union-busting with Newt, blown chances for peace in the Middle-east, healthcare in the shithole, Afghanistan, et al.

I am beginning to think it is time the left puts Obama on notice in a serious way. I am tired of waiting for something, anything, to get done that is important to people on the left! I am not willing to accept a Democratic president governing somewhere to the right of Bill Clinton. We used to call such people, Republicans.

[Jakes Progress]

56. Our party is completing the transformation.

As the other party deteriorates into raving, moronic crazies, our party is slowing becoming exactly the things we were fighting against 20 years ago.

[JCMach1]

70. Cold comfort... I still hope Obama can turn it around,

I'm just not hopeful... sorry, fresh out of audacity.

[Hannah Bell]

73. he doesn't *want* to turn it around, so you better quit hoping & fight.

[JCMach1]

76. Ah, there's the rub... what would be best?

Insurrection in the party? Go Green? A new third party?

Try to talk Obama down?


Seriously, what's the answer at this point?

[Hannah Bell]

77. I was under the impression you were a teacher.

[JCMach1]

97. Former public school teacher

Professor working overseas now...

[reggie the dog]

85. I am going Green

I am sick of us working class people being the shit on the bottom of the shoes of the Democratic politicians.

[Le Taz Hot]

86. You basically have two choices:

1) Put up REAL Democrats and be ready to fight Rahm and his Party-Before-Country sycophants along with his corporate MILLIONS. Not easy but certainly not impossible.

2) The option that cannot be named on this board.


Personally, sitting out is not an option. My ancestors handed me a perfectly good form of Democracy that has been vilely corrupted by the monied interests. It's up to me do everything I can to gain it back. Again, not easy but not impossible.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slipslidingaway]

22. Transcript on this issue starts at the bottom of page 2, a snip...

"...Secretary Duncan, this is what you said about public schools this fall. I'll put it up on the screen. "What we have to give up on is academic failure. What you have are dropout factories--you have places that for the overwhelming majority of students are simply not doing them justice. To perpetuate something that has chronically underperformed, how can we be wedded to that?" So, simply stated, what is this president prepared to do about it? ..."

We could have said the same thing about employer based, for profit health insurance, but instead we built on a failing system.

:mad:

[tonysam]

27. Here is the video

Meet the Press

[madfloridian]

41. Thanks for the video.

I am not sure I can watch it all. I will just read the transcript. Very depressing.

[bigtree]

16. I listened to his reasoning in an interview this week

I can't ever agree that failing or struggling schools (identified by low test scores and the like) should have funding restricted or denied to make them buck up, as Duncan's theory goes. If all the administration is going to do is sit back and pick winners and losers in this game there won't be any reform. I also am dumbfounded by his seeming grudge against teachers, justifying it by saying 'children come first'. If they can't put resources into hiring and retaining teachers it will be the children who suffer the most.

[madfloridian]

19. It should be called "planned" fail.

Make the tests harder, when they fail make them even harder...and when a school finally fails because the students' minds are blown out over testing..then turn them into charters which are usually run by private EMOs.

[tonysam]

38. No matter how well public schools or students do on those stupid standardized tests,

it will NEVER be good enough for the privatizers.

Meanwhile, charter schools and regular private schools get off scot free.

[donco6]

46. Especially when they can raise the "standards" any time they want.

Which then makes the scores go mysteriously down. Go figger.

[tonysam]

47. They keep moving the goal posts

That's sort of like the idiotic idea all students should be at grade level by the year 2014, therefore making sure ALL public school districts fail.

[Jakes Progress]

59. They are not "raising" anything.

The tests are dumber now than they were before. They just change the indicators around and play with the metrics. Nothing about the tests they are using is designed to improve education or increase learning. Any teacher who knows how learning takes place knows that. But, of course, people like arne and his ilk never worked a classroom or taught anyone anything.

Education is set to be the biggest failure of the Obama administration.

[Le Taz Hot]

89. Raising the standards?

No, the "standards" are all over the place because each state establishes their own. Some are better than others and the federal version is a complete joke. No, if anything the standards are at rock bottom. Colleges will, for the most part, accept anyone that is breathing and the illiteracy coming from college students who can't tell the difference between "to," "too," and "two" will make your stomach turn. And they graduate them! Goddess, no the standards haven never been as low as they are now.

[madfloridian]

110. The NCLB...national test.

Meant for failure.

[pattmarty]

127. What amazes me is some of the spelling you see college educated.............

..........people use. Look at geography, most people don't know their state's Capitol and can't find major countries on a fucking map. "Bill Obama, change we CAN'T believe in".

[Jakes Progress]

57. It has never been about good enough.

It is only about destroying voter's faith in public education.

[Fire1]

18. I remember all the e-mails to the original website

(Change.gov)from educators across the country, begging him to get rid of NCLB and the fallacy of it's effectiveness. I don't think he got wind of any of them. Moreover, how can he be in favor of EFCA and at the same time privatize education funded by corporations and philanthropists, which is invariably breaking the unions??

[YvonneCa]

49. That's a good...

...question. ED.gov had many great suggestions from teachers...if they were ever heard.

[LooseWilly]

62. Who said Obama was in favor of EFCA? Last I heard it was being just as ignored as repeal of DOMA.

When has the administration done anything more than pay thin-lip-service to EFCA? What did I miss?

[Hannah Bell]

74. they didn't care about the stupid emails, do you get it yet? they have their own plan,

& nclb is part of it.

they're neo-lib privatizers. they want to marketize education, like everything else.

the poor will get trained to work at mcdonalds on the public dime, everyone else will pay as much as they can afford.

[pattmarty]

126. He's in favor of EFCA? Sure doesn't look like it. When (if) they............

...........finally get around to introducing the legislation in Congress I wonder what that will get "whittled" down to? After what's happening to healthcare and banking, I ain't holding my breath. "Bill" Obama, change we can't believe in.

[saracat]

23. Funny, the only lines in the sand the Obama Admin draws are GOP! Why is that?

No lines in the sand for choice, unions, gay rights or troop withdrawel.None.They might offend the GOP but a line in the sand attacking teachers and unions? Why do we have people like Arne in the cabinet? Why do we have an office of Faith Based Initiatives?maybe someone would like to explain we we are "supporting" GOP policy all the while they call President Obama a socialist????????

[madfloridian]

108. Does seem odd.

I hope some teachers watched that interview and said uh oh.

[JDPriestly]

25. My children went to magnet schools.

And their experiences were great. The schools were publicly organized and funded, but the teachers were given a lot of leeway to plann their own curriculum and teach in their own style. The schools were sort of themed. A couple of them fostered development in the arts, one of the high schools was college prep (happened to be in our neighborhood and prepared my daughter to do better in advanced chemistry than her college classmates many of whom went to expensive private schools), and a couple were for so-called "highly gifted" kids. In one classroom, one of my children was just sort of handed math books and told "GO for it." Of course, she not only loves math but excels in it.

The problem with charter schools is that you get a private management team that uses public money for their own private purposes. That is not good. In the end, we will get a lot of corruption, a lot of accounting "mistakes" and a lot of wasted money. If you think Halliburton was bad, just wait until the private-contractor-scavengers start moving into the charter school business.

I am writing this because yesterday I happened to visit a high school in my neighborhood and was troubled by the sorry state of the plumbing. It seems to me that it would be better to spend money on repairing and maintaining our public schools rather than on building new facilities for quasi-private charter schools.

But then, while I love my country and admire the many good qualities of my fellow Americans, I have to acknowledge that one of our faults is our short attention spans. We have failed to adequately fund our public schools and have allowed their physical facilities to deteriorate. They are in disgustingly bad shape in many instances. And remember, they need constant renovation. Any building that houses hundreds of children for the better part of the day five days a week takes a beating. Don't blame the kids and teachers. So, off we go to a new project. Let's just abandon those dirty buildings, those unruly kids and start over. Here's a new, new, new idea.

Excuse me. We need to finish, to succeed at what we started -- public schools -- before we move on to start some other half-baked new idea -- charter schools. Get rid of no-child-left-behind and encourage teachers to be creative and respond to their students as individuals. Lower the number of students per class so that teachers can develop curriculum and not just discipline the mob. That is the best cure for what ails education in our country.


And, finally, how will charter schools help students in small-town America?
Transportation is a huge problem for kids trying to get a decent education in much of America. Charter schools will make transportation an even bigger nightmare than it is for many working problems. That was our big problem with magnet schools. Our children sometimes had long bus-rides or had to be picked up after school someplace far from home. Transportation can only be worked out if one parent can act as chauffeur. For most working families, that is just not an alternative.

No. No. No to charter schools.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. +1

[Dinger]

32. I Teach In Small Town America

And this will only hurt rural schools. Nobody in this administration gives a flying fuck about rural schools.

[tonysam]

37. And they don't care about the urban ones, either, now that they are infested

with Eli Broad flaks as superintendents and senior "executive cabinet" members.

I love that "executive cabinet" term instead of administrators. Public entities don't have "executives"; that's a private industry term.

[Dinger]

39. Good Point tony (nt)

[donco6]

45. That is very, very true.

They treat you guys like you don't exist.

We're on the urban fringe of Denver. We don't exist, either. But people can't THROW enough money at Denver.

[JDPriestly]

48. I went to first through fourth grades in small towns. It's been a long

time, but just the logistics of serving a small farming community will not support charter schools. This whole idea is a city slicker's idea -- a corrupt city slicker's idea. Think of the kick-backs that could be wrenched out of the "managers" of charter schools. I can only imagine the backroom deals in the making. Charter schools will soon be a haven for the crooks, the Abramovs, and the like.

[reggie the dog]

87. They don't give a fuck about any of us

their "base" can afford to send their kids to private schools.

[goclark]

44. No,no, no to Charter schools

Mark my words, this is not the road we need to be on.

[alp227]

54. Thank you for explaining WHY charters ain't right

Most of the rhetoric around DU are "Deregulation? GAAHH!!!!" with more appeal to emotion than reason. Now I see your reasoning on how deregulation doesn't always mean responsibility. I have a friend who was minoring in education at his university, and he has told me that charter schools care more about students' individual needs than public ones do. Thank you for setting the record straight...it's the MAGNET schools that do.

After all these complaints that public schools are not accommodating enough to students who prefer their own learning styles, how about create an accommodationist public school system that's modeled around the magnet schools? More funding for college-prep programs if the private ones are sucking away all the desperately needed funding?

[madfloridian]

63. Wow, you couldn't see what deregulation did to the economy?

You should not have to have someone tell you that deregulating schools would do equal harm.

I will be honest. I am emotional about this issue. It is beyond reason now when our Democrats are privatizing education.

I was a public school teacher for over 30 years. We accommodated all our students to the best of our ability, and there were programs for all the children until they began to strip the money away.

They are privatizing the public schools...that is the plain and simple bottom line.

Yes, I am emotional and angry at Obama and Arne for what they are doing.

[alp227]

66. But I keep hearing people complaining that public schools are over-regulated

And that's why they're crying out for the government to stop micro-managing them.

But based on what I've been reading on DU it seems that NCLB stands for Neglection and something.

Here's a tougher question: Although you are opposed to the total privatisation of education, and there is no doubt that less regulation=less accountability, why do private schools produce so many students better prepared for college and the workforce than public ones?

[madfloridian]

67. There is no proof of what you said.

Do you a credible link that private schools are more outstanding?

There are some very good ones of course. But let's say the ones in our area are strong on creationism....doubt that will lead to good preparation for college.

It is just so much spin because they want corporations to get into education.

They tell lies and spin about public schools.

[alp227]

69. Regarding creationism...

good point. There was this lawsuit in California where some fundamentalist parents sued the University of California system, alleging discrimination when the UC wouldn't accept creationist courses as science. So you're right there; if a private school is teaching pseudoacademia like creationism, magic, alchemy, etc, booooo.

Still we've gotta deal with the unfortunate fact that far too many public schools are "dropout factories" as Sec. Duncan said on Meet the Press this morning, compared with the many private schools that are elite college admissions factories.

[MadHound]

78. Yes, and those elite college admission factories are well funded, with involved parents,

And none of the "problem" students that public schools have to deal with. It would be easy to turn any of those "dropout factories" into "elite college admission factories" if we fully funded them, if there were caring parents at home, and if they didn't admit those with learning or behavioral problems. The thing is, public schools take in everybody, teach everybody, whether or not their parents are involved, despite the shortage of money, in the face of a rising tide of destruction that is trying to sweep away our public school system. Show me private schools that do all of that.

Hell, you would see a hell of a large increase in college admissions at public schools if you would just fully fund them. Instead, we neglect a whole lot of schools, forcing kids to do with substandard facilities, working with out of date texts, with none of those enrichment and learning experiences one sees elsewhere. Instead of trying to fund them, trying to save them, we're more than willing to shut them down, turn them over to privatized education, and call it good.

But what we're doing is creating a two tier education system. An upper tier for those who can afford a quality private school, and then a substandard public school system for all the rest. Is that what you want? Consign most of our students to the hell of an underfunded school system? This is not very democratic, nor does it make much sense. Children are supposed to be one of those "job one" deals, instead we use education as a political football, and the children are the ones paying the price. And teachers, teachers are underpaid, overworked, and not respected by most of the population in this country. We need to elevate teachers to the same high status that they enjoy in other countries, and pay them well. Instead of paying through the nose for MBA's and other such bullshit, we need to start paying teachers. Starting pay at $50,000. That way you will retain quality teachers and attract quality to the field. Instead we're paying a pittance and demanding gold in return. This has worked for a long while because teachers are a dedicated lot, caring more about kids than the community does. But we can't keep going back to that well forever, it's about dry.

So your contention that private schools are somehow better is simply comparing apples to oranges. Next time try comparing apples to apples and see what you come up with.

[madfloridian]

103. Public schools were NOT "drop-out" factories until they were defunded...

year by year by year.

Duncan is insulting to public schools, and you quote him as though he knows what he's doing.

He is not well versed in education matters....he is a tool to privatize the public schools.

Shame on our country and this administration for demeaning the public school system as they take away resources from them.

[alp227]

115. Sigh...more manufactured controversy

Sorta like "Teach the controversy" where creationists made shit up to get public schools to teach intelligent design. This time, the corporate lobbyists are pushing defunding through No Child Left Behind to advance a phony agenda.

[reggie the dog]

91. private schools do not accept everyone

many have entrance exams. We educate everyone in the public sector

[donco6]

93. Oh brother.

First of all, my public school with 63% free/reduced and 40 monolingual spanish got more than 90% of its kids accepted to a four year college.

Second of all, I can guarantee there is NO private school with anywhere NEAR those demographics in the entire state of Colorado.

[JDPriestly]

125. Parents who can afford to pay for their kids' primary and/or secondary

education are on the average better educated and better paid than other parents. In addition, parents who can afford to or who are at least capable of finding a way to give their children opportunities like private schools tend to focus on their children's education more. The parents are either wealthier or more motivated than other parents. The children succeed because of the homes and environments from which they come.

Two other factors are the social contacts students make in private schools and the smaller classes. Even the scholarship students get to know the kids from more influential families who send their children to private schools. Children in smaller classes get more individual attention and can do better. A third factor is the fact that a lot of private schools have more money than do public schools.

In the book Outliers, the author pointed out that Bill Gates went to a private school in which he had access to a computer and the freedom to use it at a pretty early age. That school was well supported by the relatively wealthy parents who sent their children to it. Imagine an inner city school even today in which a gifted student could have a lot of access to a computer just to experiment -- free time at the computer. To have had that back when Gates was a kid was like a ticket to success. Of course, Bill Gates had to have other qualities and had to work hard. But, I assure you, most young people born in the year he was born -- in the mid-fifties, I believe, did not have the opportunity to learn what he learned.

We learn how to learn in the earliest period of our lives. I remember hearing many years ago that the first six months of life are probably the most important in determining your intelligence. There is a correlation between having a pre-school environment that favors good concentration and good learning skills and going to private schools. It's most likely not the schools themselves.

[pattmarty]

128. I think you BETTER provide some fucking "linkies", pal.

[donco6]

80. We have that - but they're not magnet schools.

www.mapleton.us

[reggie the dog]

88. deregulation has nothing to do with responsibility

deregulation is about letting the elite fucking rape us without us being able to legally fight back.

[JDPriestly]

109. Thanks. The magnet schools started as means to integrate the schools.

In my experience, at their best, they were the means to integrate students who had the same interest, goals or problems.

I was a lonely and bored exception in classes full of children who could not read nearly as well as I could and who did not have the family support that I had. My children attended classes with children of very diverse ethnic, racial, economic (but mostly lower middle class with lots of immigrants) and religious backgrounds but who all shared my children's excitement about the arts and learning, I can see that the result is that my children learned not only the academic and artistic subject matter but to have confidence and to fit in socially. Magnet schools are the answer. The private aspect of charter schools is unimportant and a waste of resources.

[Lifelong Protester]

100. Thank you for that well crafted reply

I am a school administrator in a small rural school. All of the talk about education reform in the last decade has meant NOTHING to us out here in the farmland. All it has meant is more meaningless paperwork, instruction time lost to testing, and really, why on earth should any money for education be based on 'competitive grants"? That is just more money for grant writing firms. If you don't have someone write your grant, you have a snowball's chance in you-no-where of getting any dollars.

I am sadly glad that I am in the last few years of my career. I can retire at the end of this year, but because of the economy I will have to try to hang on a bit longer. And I feel sad because I don't want to abandon the fight, but frankly, there is not muc fight left in some of us old boomers.

[erinlough]

121. I'm right here with you

35 years of trying to better the techniques I use to educate handicapped kids and I feel like as an educator I am the scum of the earth in this administrations eyes. I voted for Obama once, but if this continues I won't vote in 2012. I'm in a successful rural school and I still love teaching so I stay, but my heart goes out to the young teachers just starting a career.

[waiting for hope]

+1

[donco6]

29. Excellent, as usual.

Yes, isn't it interesting that they can't actually force an issue with anyone, unless it's with fellow democrats who helped get you elected. People like gays and teachers. THOSE people we can kick in the face. But heaven forbid we should actually oppose . . . you know, REPUBLICANS.

[madfloridian]

31. 3 strong constituencies of the Democratic party...gays, teachers, women.

All being treated as unimportant.

[Dinger]

34. Well There Might Not Be Much We Can Do Now,

but we can vote at election time. We can hold them accountable. Yes we can!

[madfloridian]

35. They don't need our money, but I guess votes still matter.

Maybe. Perhaps.

[csziggy]

64. Don't forget unions have also been treated as unimportant

Damn, this sucks.

[donco6]

94. Climb on board, there's still room. n/t

[reggie the dog]

92. don't forget us reefers

[donco6]

95. Actually, things are looking up for you here in Denver.

Medical marijuana shops springing up all over town. City officials freaking out. It's hilarious.

[reggie the dog]

130. It's not medicine for me, just a hobby

I will be celebrating my next birthday in Amsterdam.

[high density]

30. Well where are the jobs?

Duncan can talk about the dropout rate or getting kids through college all he wants. That's all useless unless there's gainful employment at the end of the process.

[Are_grits_groceries]

33. Arne Duncan can go to hell!

And he can take his basketball too.

One of Mark Sanford's prime goals in SC was to dump public education, and get charter schools rolling. He was backed by the fine hand of Howard Rich who is a billionaire. Rich sent a lot of money to politicians in the state to buy the process, and use SC as his own little experiment.

It never took hold completely. What we have is one hot mess. Public education in the dumper. Charter schools here and there. No plan, and everybody squabbling.

If this is what we are heading into nationally one iota, we are in deep shit. They should pick different communities all over the US and see how it works. They damn well don't need to throw the entire US system into chaos.

The RW wants this. Why do you think they haven't squalled about it? This is a government takeover that makes health care reform look miniscule. This is one of the prime tenets of conservatism.

And just wait until Rwthugs are back in charge, and they will be at some point. Watch what they do to the system no matter how it is running.

[tonysam]

36. I just saw Duncan's MTP appearance

The guy is a clueless idiot, a complete and clueless idiot about public education.

This country is fucked.

[Dinger]

42. Sounds Like Time For A Fuck Arne Duncan Thread (nt)

[tonysam]

43. Or a folder dedicated to this fool

He is such an idiot. I had not heard him to any great extent until today's MTP. He's mindboggling stupid; he reminds me of a stereotypical jock.

[madfloridian]

50. Arne and David Gregory "discuss" how schools might "lie" about progress.

This is part of the interview that infuriated me.

"GREGORY: OK. But so how you–how do you hold teachers accountable, and while at the same time hold the unions’ feet to the fire?

SEC’Y DUNCAN: What we have said, which is a fundamental breakthrough, is we will only invest in those states and districts where student achievement is part of the evaluation.

GREGORY: Right.

SEC’Y DUNCAN: We’ve drawn, we have drawn a line in the sand.

GREGORY: But what, but what if, but what if states lie to you? Because I’ve talked to educators who say…

SEC’Y DUNCAN: We…

GREGORY: …wait a minute, they can, they can just say, “Oh, yeah, well, we’re, we’re gathering the data.”

SEC’Y DUNCAN: Right.

GREGORY: But not really gather the data on student performance based on test results and still get the money.

SEC’Y DUNCAN: David, it’s very simple, we simply won’t fund them. This is–we’re talking about everyone moving outside their comfort zone. Department of Education has been part of the problem. Let me be very, very clear. We have been this big, historical, compliance-driven bureaucracy. We are trying to move from that to being this engine of innovation and in–to invest it and scale up what works. We are only going to invest in those places that are doing the right thing by children. If they’re not, we simply will not fund them.

http://blog.reidreport.com/2009/11/david-gregorys-right-wing-nosedive-part-2-unions-unions-everywhere/

Duncan just assumes that school districts might lie to him.

He is an arrogant SOB

It's his way or the highway. His way will destroy public education.

[Stinky The Clown]

51. Amazing, innit? ........... Newt Gingrich influincing a supposedly Democratic administration.

This rabbit hole is really deep and dark.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. It's downright creepy

But overwhelmingly sad.

[alp227]

55. Gingrich fucking up ANOTHER "Democratic" administration?

Let's see, Gingrinch and his Republican Revolutionaries already did it in 1994, when Bill Clinton was in office. Look what happened. The federal government just went kerploot in 1995 following a year of policy gridlock. Clinton signed conservative legislation like Welfare Reform and Defense of Marriage. A chimp-faced Republican won office in 2000 thanks to a narrow Supreme Court ruling, and the GOP's teeth finally fell off in 2006.

And now we have the Grinch trying to make No Child Left Behind look like the Declaration of Independence. We don't need more Republican raping of an already trashed system.

[madfloridian]

99. Yes, it is indeed amazing.

Everyone of Newt's goals is coming true under a Democratic administration.

[democracy1st]

58. Goldman Sachs admin complete bs

[Jakes Progress]

60. None of this is about improving schools.

The goal was and is to corporatize education and to make profit on children.

This is sick.

[bertman]

61. And as the Democrats drift closer and closer to the shoals of defeat in 2010 . . .

Rec.

[madfloridian]

65. "Race to the bottom"

http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/diploma-mill/2009/11/13/race-bottom?page=full

"And so the winner-loser paradigm segregates states into two classes: those that have reformed according to Obama’s ideals and those that haven’t (or at least haven’t enough). But rather than give catch-up money to the states that have fallen behind the administration is rewarding those that have already done well. The administration would like you to think that this is the equivalent of getting extra credit or a gold star for a job especially well done. (“Rewarding excellence” is their terminology.) But it’s really like a teacher staying after-school to tutor only the teacher’s pets. The students who really need the help are the ones who are being ignored. And once they know the teacher doesn’t have the time to pay attention to them, there’s little incentive to keep trying to please.

On a conference call with reporters Thursday afternoon, someone asked Education Secretary Arne Duncan whether he thought the program would leave some states behind. Duncan responded with a flat “No,” saying that with all the other education stimulus money pumped into the system (more than $100 billion), no state was in this situation.

But then how will the losing states catch up? Duncan hinted that the administration hopes this issue will resolve itself. “We want to reward those states and those districts that have the courage and the political will to do that, and we think other states will follow.” Other states will follow. Two problems with this. First, how are they going to follow if they don’t have the money to do so? Second, what’s the incentive for them to follow through on reform without a big, Race to the Top-type reward? The behavioral economics don’t pan out."

[Hannah Bell]

75. They don't really expect them to "follow". They expect them to fail, so they can take them over.

They're pushing them to fail, this is their goal.

[BrklynLiberal]

68. Duncan was one of President Obama's most disappointing appointments.

It was known he supported charter schools when he was in charge in Chicago...

[madfloridian]

107. I agree, he was disappointing.

I think teachers are waking up on this a little.

[Hannah Bell]

71. why aren't teachers & administrators fighting this shit?

the "line in the sand" pretty much tells the future.

public ed is targeted for destruction, & so are your salaries, bennies, pensions & positions.

My stepfather's mother was a teacher, pre-WW2. She lived on a poor farm for awhile, that was the degree of insecurity in the profession.

If you have kids thinking of going into education, tell them if they don't get a job in a wealthy area, they'll be competing to work in the local "christian academy" or corporate charter for peanuts & no pension.

marketized ed. everyone above the poverty line will be scrimping to send their kids to as much school as they can afford so the kids won't be totally out of the running for adult perks.

think mexico.

[donco6]

96. I am.

We fight out Dept of Education every step of the way. They wanted to close down our school with the highest free/reduced and language issues - even though we just closed the old school and opened a new one (which is the same thing they say we'd have to do AGAIN). We fight them over the emphasis on testing versus other indicators. We fight them for funding, which is distributed in wildly inappropriate way from the state for Title 1. We fight them on the options they've given us for "reconstituting schools". We fight them as much as we can, but we're SMALL POTATOES. They don't have to pay the slightest attention to us.

[Hannah Bell]

102. i don't mean at the level of individual schools or districts. where's the union,

where are the national-level statements publicizing these moves as a trojan horse for privatization?

the public only gets the "our schools are bad, we have to do this" meme.

where's the national mobilization?

[erinlough]

111. How do we fight it?

I have strong feelings about how wrong this plan is, but I have taught for 35 years and I am assumed to BE the problem. If you speak out against it you are asking them to continue the status quo, which is assumed to be failing. I am not saying there are not some failing schools, mine isn't and I have worked my whole career to make sure it doesn't. We are disrespected and not listened to....marginalized, we can't fight it.

In my opinion this administration and Duncan are only interested in inner-city schools. My rural school is small, responsive to parent requests, deliberate in our approach to educaton and fully service the individual child. We are successful because of it. Arne and Barrak could care less, they want inner city schools to get better, as they should. The unintended consequences are that as they mandate expensive data systems and accounting software they will fund the inner city schools and our dwindling income will have to fund our own because we are not now in trouble. They are either unaware of the rural school or they simply don't care. This administration, IMO, is simply bad on education.

[reggie the dog]

82. I hated Duncan the year I taught in the CPS

NCLB leaves kids behind. No school wants special ed kids because they always lower the schools standardized test scores and thereby lower the funding. No school wants poor kids either because kids living the problem of poverty have a harder time getting good standardized test scores. No school wants immigrants.;...... For real I am seriously considering voting Green in 2012

[kwassa]

90. "Pay for Performance" is the new magic mantra for education.

It is the latest fad that will mysteriously fix all education ills. That, and "High Expectations". That is all it takes to have fantastic schools, according to this new educational cult that Duncan is part of.

Forget parental involvement and responsibility. The onus is entirely on teachers to get those students to work. Forget financial resources. Forget all the other variables that affect student performance.

As a public school teacher, I am completely neutral on the subject of charter schools, except to note that some perform better than local public schools, some perform about the same, and some perform far worse. The real issue is school quality, not charter vs. public.

I don't oppose pay-for-performance in theory, except that I think it is impossible to do in a truly equitable way. Many of the mechanisms in place to review teachers now are highly subjective, and I don't see that improving.

And none of these reforms address the responsibility of parents. Values about education, like all other values, come from the home. The parents are the chief influence in a child's life. As hard as we work in education to make a positive learning environment, we have comparitively little of the time or control or influence that parents have. None of the so-called reformers ever talk about this, and take the issue right off the table.

[madfloridian]

98. How do you feel about Catholic schools changing to charter on purpose...

to get the taxpayer money?

Some Catholic schools in Florida converting to charter schools this fall.

And so, the Archdiocese of Miami will begin its experiment with charter schools this fall. What was intended as a pilot program at one parish – Corpus Christi in Wynwood – will become, for financial reasons, the norm at seven more. Charters also will open in August where five other Catholic schools closed this June: Sacred Heart, Our Lady of Divine Providence in Sweetwater, St. Francis Xavier in Overtown, St. Stephen in Miramar and St. Clement in Fort Lauderdale.

A seventh charter will open at St. Malachy in Tamarac, which opted to close its school before its financial situation deteriorated further. And an eighth charter will open in Miami Gardens, in the building used by St. Monica School until it closed in May 2008.

Charter schools are free, funded by public dollars, so religion cannot be taught during the school day. Unlike traditional public schools, however, charter schools operate independently of the local school board and have more leeway in managing day-to-day operations.

Because the parishes are leasing their former school buildings to the charter schools, they are deriving income from the properties. The amount ranges between $150,000 and $350,000 this first year, “depending on the size, capacity and condition of the facilities,” according to Fernando Zulueta, president of Academica, a company that provides management and support services for most of the charter schools opening on archdiocesan properties.

Also I hear some Muslim schools and Jewish schools are doing that also.

They are keeping the same staff and administration.

That is where the "quality" of charter schools are leading us. To a rich blend of church and state.

[kwassa]

104. If they keep the same staff and administration, that is fairly suspect.

They can't teach religion, though, so that would seem to bring about the separation you are looking for. The Catholic schools have served a public function for a long time, and have had many scholarship students. Now they would be able to serve a better public function as no one will be charged tuition. At least this population is getting served.

I really don't care how good education is transmitted, as long as it is transmitted.

Many of the Catholic schools have to change to charter or close, because the dwindling population of paying students, the financial setbacks to the Church because of lawsuits over molestation, and changing demographics in terms of congregations able to support these places.

[madfloridian]

105. It is not my job to support religious schools. I don't want my taxes going there.

Yet no one is giving me a choice.

I DO care very much about quality education. I don't care if religious schools have to close if they don't get my tax money.

I really do care about keeping education true and honest.

[kwassa]

112. Are they religious schools if they don't teach religion?

I don't see the problem.

[madfloridian]

116. Not going to argue with you anymore. You apparently are ok

with women's rights being taken away on a religious basis, and you don't oppose it.

Please don't insult me by saying they will keep the staff and administration that taught religion before and not teach it after getting public money.

They will just do it more quietly.

They won't give up their conquest of women, either.

You know it all, so keep your views.

[kwassa]

117. how are women's rights being taken away?

By the way, though I've never taught in a Catholic school, I did work for Catholic Charities for a stint. I am not Catholic. I never heard one word about religion. There were certainly no religious requirements. My boss was female. Does this fit your stereotype?

Speaking of know-it-all, since you've never been there or done that, what exactly is your basis of knowledge on this subject?

[madfloridian]

120. The Catholic Bishops are putting 40 Democrats in a Hall of Shame

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5236

""The Catholics in the US House of Representatives who voted against the ”Stupak/ Pitts Amendment” which tried to protect the lives of our first neighbors in the womb from being killed with tax dollars under the profane cover of the delivery of “health care” are a veritable unfaithful Catholic Hall of Shame. Here are their names:

Reps. Michael Arcuri (D-N.Y.); Xavier Becerra (D-Calif,); Tim Bishop (D-N.Y.); Robert Brady (D-Pa.); Michael Capuano (D-Mass); William Lacy Clay (D-Mo.); Gerry Connolly (D-Va.); Joe Courtney (Conn.); Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.); William Delahunt (D-Mass.); Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.); Anna Eshoo (D-Calif.); Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.); Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.); John D. Hall (N.Y.); Phil Hare (D-Ill.); Brian Higgins (D-N.Y.); Maurice Hinchey (D-N.Y.); Mary Jo Kilroy (D-Ohio); Ann D. Kirkpatrick (D-Ariz.); Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio); John Larson (D-Conn.); Manuel Luján (D-N.M.); Edward Markey (D-Mass.); Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.); Betty McCollum (D-Minn.); James McGovern (D-Mass.); George Miller (D-Calif.); Harry Mitchell (D-Ariz.); James Moran (D-Va.); Patrick Murphy (D-Pa.); Grace Napolitano (D-Calif.); Frank Pallone (D-N.J.); Bill Pascrell (D-N.J); Ed Pastor (D-Ariz.); Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-Calif.); Linda T. Sánchez (D-Calif.); Loretta Sanchez (D-Calif.); Jose Serrano (D- N.Y.); Joe Sestak (D-Pa.); Jackie Speier (D- Calif.); Mike Thompson (D-Calif.); Paul Tonko (D-N.Y.); Nydia Velázquez (D-N.Y.); Peter Visclosky (D-Ind.) and Diane Watson (D-Calif.). "

Life is too short to argue with people who deny something so obvious. So updating my list.

[kwassa]

123. there are very liberal Catholics as well as conservative Catholics

The Catholics and the mainline Protestant denominations all have a broad range of political opinion among their membership. I am Episcopalian, and the liberals run the show.

whether or not you want to deal with this FACT, but Catholic Charities does a ton of great charitable work as the largest private charity in the US. I don't agree with their stance on several issues, but they do great work on many others.

[donco6]

132. I guess if they only discriminate a LITTLE, they're OK.

:eyes:

[kwassa]

134. I appreciate the good work they do.

There is a lot more need in the world than there is help to deal with it.

[donco6]

140. That's what I figured. n/t

[madfloridian]

106. Will they teach respect for women's rights?

Or will they teach that women are inferior to men?

Think about it hard.

[kwassa]

113. I have no idea.

It depends on the level of supervision from the school district.

[madfloridian]

101. GIngrich pressuring MD schools to follow Arne's rules. This infuriates me.

How dare this man, this discredited politician, get to go to a state and tell them what to do?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/education/bal-md.ci.visit14nov14,0,7933536.story

"An unlikely trio explored several Baltimore schools Friday as part of an effort to highlight education reform and challenges, and called on Maryland to give charter schools more autonomy.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich repeatedly emphasized the need for changes to the state's charter school law, which he called "too restrictive," as he, the Rev. Al Sharpton and U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan toured three city schools and spoke with students, administrators and others about their schools - and what sets them apart.

"I hope that everybody in Maryland will call the governor, will call the legislators, and will let them know that if they want every child in Baltimore to have the chance to have a quality education ... they have to reform the charter school law," Gingrich said, standing with Duncan and Sharpton at Hampstead Hill Academy, a neighborhood charter. "If you have the ability to shape resources, to shape people, to focus time on the students, you really can have a dramatic impact. But to do that, you have to have a more flexible, a more creative charter law."

Gingrich made similar comments during their first stop at KIPP Ujima Village Academy, a charter school that has cut its extended school hours this year because of a dispute with the teachers union over pay. Accompanied by city schools CEO Andrés A. Alonso and state Superintendent Nancy S. Grasmick, the three also went to Holabird Elementary/Middle School."

[waiting for hope]

118. Too late to rec - but I'll give a hearty kick -

:kick:

[Riley18]

119. If Arne is still in charge of the education policies in 2012, I will not vote for Obama.

[teacher gal]

122. Kick

I am to the point where I honestly believe that nothing but a national walkout of teachers is going to reverse this train wreck we're headed for.

[Jim Sagle]

124. Oh stop it, you silly PUMAs.

;)

[John Q. Citizen]

131. Market based solution for health care good, market based solution for education bad?

I think market based solutions are bad for both.

How come you give Dr. Dean a pass for his rolling over on the Public Option, which was of course a market based solution since it implicitly endorsed the public funding of private insurance companies?

Or did I miss your scathing repudiation of Dr. Dean's endorsement of the house bill?

[madfloridian]

133. Do you feel better when you just throw stuff out there?

You have twisted my views of health care and now you are twisting what I posted about schools.

I see no way to respond when you are making stuff up.

[John Q. Citizen]

135. I want to know why a market based solution, the public option, is good enough for

health care but not good enough for education?

Or is your stance that the Public Option was a sham, that Howard Dean knew all along that it was a sham, and that the people who called Howard on the sham, such as Physician's for a National Health Program, were right all along?

I guess i never saw you post anything on it. You may have and I might have missed it.

This is why I'm asking. I'm trying to figure out where you now stand.

I know that at one point you revered Howard Dean as a larger than life figure who was to be trusted always and forever, and anyone who questioned his integrity was to be vilified.

But i never saw anything you wrote one way or another after Dean rolled over on the Public Option. So I'm not twisting your views, I'm soliciting your views.

From my point of view, Kip Sullivan was exactly right on. They sold people this concept of the public option and then they switched it. As they were switching it they had Dean out there saying, 'It's like Medicare. Think of it as single payer.'

When of course it was nothing like Medicare and only the brain dead would think of it like single payer.

So what say you? Was Howard a straight shooter? Was Kip wrong?

Or was Kip a straight shooter, and Howard wrong?

[KamaAina]

136. Now that's what I call change we can believe in!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[madfloridian]

138. That's real change Gingrich can believe it. Yep...

You called it with the :sarcasm: tag....it is like going backwards to the Newt 90s.

:hi:

[Bluesbreaker]

139. Arne will destroy public education

Thanks for all of the education posts you put up, MadFloridian. They are much appreciated.