Serious question about marijuana

[Dreamer Tatum]

I'm agnostic about the legalization of marijuana, generally because of the extreme histrionics of both the pro- AND anti-weed camps. At the same time, I'm against ANY dried plant matter being smoked in front of me, because I think it smells like shit.

That said, almost all of our drugs are distilled in one way or another from plant matter, so I don't see why weed should be any different.

Here's the question: have there been any serious, controlled studies or clinical trials that have revealed any therapeutic or pharmaceutical benefits from weed, or any of its derivatives?

(disclaimer for the knee-jerk DUers out there: by ASKING the question, I'm not BEGGING the question. I'm ASKING THE QUESTION.)

And I get it: you can make rope from hemp. I just don't think anyone won a critical public policy debate by finding better ingredients for rope.

I'd be happy with citations of studies rather than links to sites like http://dudeweedkicksass.com/studiesandshit.

[tridim]

1. Serious questions require serious research.

All of which is available via Google, so there is no excuse to ignore it.

Why do you want us to do your research for you?

[Teaser]

3. Why shouldn't they?

posting questions on a BBS is not really a problem. If someone's an expert, or they have the data at hand, they can post it easily. Who does it hurt?

And who said he/she wanted "us" to do their research. He/she didn't ask me to do crap. Didn't ask you, either. Choosing to reply was something you did.

[tridim]

6. He/She asked for links to research which have already been posted hundreds of times on DU

[Dreamer Tatum]

7. That was a fair reply. I can Google just as well as anyone. nt

[Teaser]

2. I think this question kicks ass

and I agree. Make the air in your house stink like ass if you want, but don't smoke that nasty shit around me.

[wuushew]

5. I have found most of my pot using friends to be very considerate

considerably more so than the average cigarette user. Would the world really start smelly worse if marijuana was legalized?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

19. Still others would disagree....

http://www.dupetit.de/english/pflege02.htm

Cannabis the real thing since 1989

(be carefull with pirats in the web! see below)

100% natural & botanical perfume

[Bonobo]

4. Well, for one thing, it has NOT beed as exhaustively studied as it should have been thus far...

precisely BECAUSE it is illegal. The government has thrown roadblock after roadblock in the way of legitimate scientific studies.

Having said that, yes, there are still many studies which point to its therapeutic effects.

If you are interested, Google is a very good way to begin to research a subject. Even Wikipedia will take you in many of the right directions.

[Warpy]

8. Most double blind studies have shown little benefit

and no double blind studies have shown much harm.

The bottom line isn't that grass is a cure all for anything. It should be that grass is a relatively benign psychoactive agent that can potentiate other treatments by increasing patient comfort. There is certainly no reason in the world to keep it as a schedule 1 narcotic other than the fact that a few men have made lucrative careers out of doing so.

I suggest a subject line for your Google research should be "double blind marijuana." That will turn up the research, mostly offshore and away from the DEA, that has actually been done.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. You don't have search engines?

I think you should read up not just on the current state of marijuana research, but also about the historic role of hemp and even rope in the settling of the Americas and the founding of our nation. For example, the first cannabis laws in America involved rewards for those who grew large amounts of it.
The AMA chimed in just this week, that might be a good place to start. Go to Google, enter AMA marijuana and get to reading.
And what do these studies you seek have to do with smoking in front of you? Are you in the center of the universe or what? I hate the smell of beer. So what? Means I don't drink any. Avoid those who do. Do ye like wise.

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. Sorry to harsh your mellow

I was just asking a question.

Yes, I've Googled it, as I should have done at the beginning. I just thought that someone might have specific knowledge that I didn't have to click for.

I work in a scientific community where it's best to ask subject matter experts first, and google second, because SME's tend to have resources that are difficult to find on google.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Why the drug based snark? Is that a science thing?

There is just much information, many States have passed laws, actual laws based on that information. There is right now another DU thread with links galore, as there are every few days.
The question did not seem sincere. At all. And your reply here does nothing to alter my impression, as you come off with this 'harsh your mellow' talk form the Smithsonian Lingo Collection.

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. Your reply to my OP was hostile, so I returned fire. Thanks. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

28. your OP was hostile

And insincere. I mean, when you seek out subject experts in your community of science, is it the norm to first call them histrionic, and bring up your personal feelings about a subject (smoking) only partly associated with the question (medical marijuana)? Is that really how you guys go about the questioning of experts in their fields? With a touch of editorializing? Seems an odd choice. Thanks.

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. No, it wasn't. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

10. I am for legalizing marijuana but I agree about the smell

I hate any kind of smoke. At college they had these designated cigarette smoking areas. Well there was one designated smoking area that I had to pass everyday to get to class. There was no way around it. I would hold my breath while passing by this area and even then when I did take a breath I usually still ended up with some in my mouth. Yuck. I don't begrudge smokers their freedom to have designated smoking areas. I just wish the school had provided a walkway to get around them so I wouldn't have had to breath it.

[tridim]

21. Have you ever smelled a well grown, living cannabis flower?

I pity anyone who hasn't. Depending on the strain I'm willing to bet most would consider wearing the scent as a purfume or cologne, it can be that lovely.

Cannabis Terpenes are just another area of study that has been mostly ignored due to prohibition.

[liberal_at_heart]

23. No I haven't

If it is a nice smelling flower then I'm sure it would make a great perfume. There are many perfumes that smell like flowers.

[Cleita]

12. Marinol, which is the pill form of cannabis, is, according to my doctor

employer, not as effective in pain management as the whole herb is. Also, you don't have to smoke it. I personally think delivering ashes into your lungs whether from tobacco or other herbs isn't healthy. I think there have been a few studies but the AMA recently is asking for more. I don't have the studies at my fingertips, but if you can wait until Wednesday when I go to work, my doctor keeps information like this in his files.

[harun]

73. My cousin was given Marinol while undergoing cancer treatment.

[onehandle]

13. Inhaling burning matter is detrimental to your health no matter what it is.

Assuming there is any benefit beyond alleviating pain symptoms of some diseases, why not consume it in another form?

Like brownies.

'I'm against ANY dried plant matter being smoked in front of me, because I think it smells like shit.'

Yep.

[Fumesucker]

45. It's much more difficult to titrate the dose when eating it, it takes longer to effect you..

And the effects are often much different, far more enervating and much longer lasting.

Smoke a couple of tokes and you'll buzz for an hour or three, eat a brownie and lose a day or two.

It's really not the same thing.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

55. don't criticize it,

vaporize it! :)

On edit: I just made a delicious plate of homemade mac & cheese with ganja butter from Grapefruit x Skunk #1. I love Colorado!

[blogslut]

14. Here's a start page for you

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3472

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. Most of that is pro-legalization advocacy, so is biased.

but thanks. I'm well on my way.

[blogslut]

18. Um, ok

So, tell me. Do you have a bias?

[Dreamer Tatum]

24. Not at all!

It looks fairly conclusive that it helps people manage pain and gain lost weight.

I'm interested in all the other stuff it might do, is all. I said I don't want it smoked around me, but I also said I don't want ANYTHING smoked around me, and furthermore I mentioned that most drugs are distilled from plant matter.

Jesus, I take herbals for my prostate, but they come in a capsule, not wrapped in a joint. I'm just curious what else the drug is thought to do.

[blogslut]

33. Ok

However, I'm intrigued about your concern with the smell of burning marijuana. Are you worried that your neighbor will smoke it for medicinal purposes and the odor will invade your space? Are you fearful that a marijuana bar will open in your town and you'll have to pass by it, thus ruining your trip to the bread shop? Are there other odors that you have a great aversion to?

[Dreamer Tatum]

35. Want a list? Here you go...

Cigarette smoke
Clove cigarette smoke
Burning oak
Burning mesquite
Burning jacaranda
Burning magazine stock

and probably a lot of others, but those I know of in particular.


My concern with the smell of burning marijuana is that it FUCKING STINKS. I don't mind the aroma of it on people who have been around the smoke, but I hate the smoke.

[blogslut]

38. Goodness

Well, golly.

[onehandle]

22. It cures scurvy! It cleans windows! It walks your dog! It does EVERYTHING!

Trying to find an unbiased resource on pot on the Internets is like trying to google the word 'boob' and avoiding porn.

[Dreamer Tatum]

25. You make a solid, solid point, which is yet another reason why I asked

for studies.

[kentuck]

20. At first, I had bronchitis...

And then I developed asthma. I was prescribed an inhaler and daily pills to control the asthma attacks.

I have noticed that the inhaler I take, FLOVENT, does not work as well as it used to. My lungs are still constricted, even after I take a couple of hits of it. Also, I have noticed that if I take one moderate hit of marijuana, my breathing is much improved. And, in my opinion, one hit of the marijuana is not as bad for my body as two hits of the FLOVENT.

I have talked to my doctor about a recommendation for medical marijuana, but he is hesitant to approve it. This is the only personal information I can give on the substance.

[Dreamer Tatum]

26. Anecdotal but valuable. Thank you. nt

[The Straight Story]

27. I don't smoke it, and don't care if it does have value - it should be legal (nt)

[Xicano]

29. "have there been any serious, controlled studies?"

There's been plenty. Here's a few links for you to go through to see for yourself.

http://americanmarijuana.org/Guzman-Cancer.pdf

http://www.springerlink.com/content/vn81nu02584t8865/fulltext.pdf

http://www.galenicom.com/pt/article/17188063/Dronabinol+and+retinal+hemodynamics+in+humans.

http://ripatients.org/cms/uploads/File/Glaucoma%20Brief.pdf

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

[Dreamer Tatum]

31. Perfect, thanks. nt

[Xicano]

36. Thanks Dreamer Tatum I am glad to be a help.

:hi:

[JohnnyLib2]

48. Appreciated and bookmarked.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

52. a small start but a good one!

I read recently in Martin Booth's "Cannabis: A History" that the benefits of using marijuana to treat glaucoma and relieve pressure on the optic nerve were discovered when it was noticed that Jamaican spear-fisherman experienced increased visual acuity after medicating. Awesome.

[Subdivisions]

32. Yes. I have tested it and it is good. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

34. Possible side effect of smoking marijuana: world peace.

:)

[Aramchek]

37. yes, there are dozens of studies. but you knew that already, didn't you?

[Dreamer Tatum]

41. No, actually, I didn't. nt

[bridgit]

39. Position Statement - NY St Nurses Association:

•Endorses the American Nurses Association Position Statement for Support of Safe Access to Therapeutic Marijuana/Cannabis (ANA, 2004).

•Supports legislative efforts in New York State that would amend Article 33 of Public Health Law and allow the growth and use of marijuana for patients whose symptoms are within designated guidelines.

•Endorses the use of marijuana for serious and life-threatening medical conditions as defined by proposed New York State legislation.
Background

Marijuana has been used for centuries for medicinal purposes and was legal in the United States until the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 prohibited its use (ANA, 2004). While federal laws provide no exception for the use of medical marijuana, as of 2007 twelve states have enacted laws that legalize medical marijuana; several other states have legislation pending (www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pop/stateprograms.htm). A summary of U.S. government reports on marijuana can be found at

www.medicalmarijuanaprocon.org/pop/govtreports.htm.

Anecdotal accounts from patients suggest that marijuana has antiemetic, sedative and analgesic effects as well as the stimulation of appetite and improved food intake. In 1997, a National Institutes of Health panel of experts called for more studies to properly evaluate marijuana’s medical potential in five specific areas (analgesia, neurological and movement disorders, nausea and vomiting associated with cancer chemotherapy, glaucoma, and appetite stimulation for persons with AIDS or cancer-related weight loss) (Mathias, 1997). In 1999, the Department of Health and Human Services announced the creation of a new mechanism to provide research-grade marijuana not only for NIH-funded research, but also for scientifically valid research that is funded by other sources (USDHHS, 2002).

An Institute of Medicine (IOM) study team examined reports of medical uses of marijuana for diseases sharing common symptoms such as pain, nausea and vomiting, and muscle spasms. Conclusions from scientific data indicate the potential therapeutic value of marijuana and its active ingredient, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC; delta-9-THC) for the following:

•Pain relief
•Control of nausea
•Appetite stimulation (Joy, Watson, & Benson, 1999).

Since the IOM report of 1999 there is additional evidence to support the use of marijuana for the following:

•Pain and nausea following chemotherapy (Tramer, Carroll, Campbell, et al., 2001)
•Muscle spasticity associated with multiple sclerosis (Dyer, 2001).

With support from the National Institutes of Health, cutting edge research related to this area is beginning to emerge. For example, Abrams and colleagues (2007) conducted a prospective randomized placebo–controlled trial to determine the effect of smoked cannabis on neuropathic pain. Smoked cannabis was well tolerated and effectively relieved chronic neuropathic pain from HIV–associated sensory neuropathy (Abrams, et al., 2007).

The New York State Nurses Association encourages elimination of barriers to the use of medicinal marijuana. When legalized, nurses will be allowed to advocate for patient use of marijuana for medicinal purposes. NYSNA joins the growing number of state nursing associations to support the therapeutic use of marijuana.

Recommendations

The New York State Nurses Association recommends that registered professional nurses:

•Advocate for legislation at state and federal levels that would provide patients safe and legal access to marijuana for medical use and protect licensed professionals who prescribe, dispense and administer medicinal marijuana from prosecution.

•Educate themselves about the current therapeutic and evidence-based uses of marijuana.

•Collaborate with other health professionals engaged in research efforts designed to investigate the scientific merits of medical marijuana.

http://www.nysna.org/practice/positions/position30.htm

[Dreamer Tatum]

43. Again, extremely helpful. Thanks very much. nt

[JohnnyLib2]

46. Thanks, bookmarked.

[FormerDittoHead]

40. I honestly don't care if it does. Is Nutrasweet GOOD for us? What are the BENEFITS?

I think it's funny, when Monsanto literally kills hundreds of people by exposing them to Asbestos (for example), but in trial, somehow the burden of proof is on the VICTIMS to prove it HURT them.

But here, amazingly, the burden of proof is not only put upon those who want it, but even more so, they have to somehow prove it's GOOD for you.

Does Dupont have to PROVE that ingesting Teflon is GOOD for you?

I don't use Nutrasweet because it's GOOD for me, but because I WANT to. Why can't the same standard be used with POT?

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. Am I supposed to answer that? nt

[kentuck]

49. Yes. Why does it have to have a benefit??

We use a lot of things, including cigarettes, coffee, and liquor, that are not good for us. And nobody has to validate their use of these substances. Who decided that this substance, marijuana, would have to have "benefits"? Otherwise, people may just use it to get "high". Now that would be criminal, wouldn't it?

[Dreamer Tatum]

51. Needlessly defensive argument

It's not that marijuana HAS to have medicinal benefits. It's that it PROBABLY DOES have medicinal benefits. I was looking for solid empirical evidence of that, and so far I've been shown lots of it.

If you're looking to me to defend decades of illegality, look elsewhere.

[kentuck]

53. I disagree.

Why should it matter if it has benefits or not? Personally, it helps me. If anyone does not want to smoke it, then don't. Just don't interfere with others if they choose to do so.

[Dreamer Tatum]

54. Disagree with what? I don't give a shit if you smoke it...enjoy yourself.

Just don't smoke it around me, because I don't like the smoke.

If you get busted for it, I'm not going to be the one arresting you.

[kentuck]

57. Well, good for you.

It's good to know where you stand...finally.

"Disagree with what?" I disagree with the idea that there must be some "benefit" with smoking marijuana before society can give their permission for another citizen to smoke it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

58. I never said there had to be some benefit. I just asked if there was.

I never put conditions on it being legal, no matter what you say.

[kentuck]

59. You also admitted a bias against its use??

Just a couple of posts up.

Oh yeah, I have an open mind bullshit.

[Dreamer Tatum]

61. I have a bias against its use in my presence when it's burned.

Because, as I have made clear to everyone with reading skills and more than an immediate term memory, I DON'T LIKE THE SMOKE.


I also said (again, if you can read, which clearly you can) that I didn't mind the AROMA that invariably clings to people who have been smoking it.


I don't have a bias against its use. That much is clear.

[kentuck]

62. I have a bias when it is burned in my presence also....

especially when they bogart it. :-)

[Dreamer Tatum]

63. Time to really bake your noodle

I smoke a La Gloria Cubana Serie R #7 maduro as often as I can.

[kentuck]

65. I would die if I tried to smoke one of those.

:-)

[FormerDittoHead]

64. Thanks for getting my point.

I was going to respond, but I re-read my post and I think I said it pretty clearly.

But my analogy is apt:

Why doesn't NutraSweet have to 'prove' it's GOOD for you? It's been proven to be harmful, if used in excess, but it serves as a positive alternative to something worse (sugar) and used in moderation, hasn't been shown to be harmful.

BUT AT NO TIME WERE THEY ASKED TO SHOW THAT IT WAS "GOOD" FOR SOMEONE.

Kentuck, I think we're on the same page here, but some people need to have their brains guided all the way around, and I guess that's why the whole 'medical marijuana' thing has to be done, because there are enough people who have to somehow be compelled to letting others just do what they want.

[kentuck]

67. I think medical marijuana should be part of healthcare reform...

it could help pay a big part of the program.

[tridim]

44. I think it's because pot is grown by satan, while Nutrasweet is manufactured by jebus himself.

[Tikki]

47. Smart people I know act all...

stupid under the influence of marijuana. That is their right.
Some people are stupid without smoking marijuana.
We already have a lot of stupid people around...do we need more?!!!


Tikki

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

50. they "act all stupid", do they?

I see.

[unaffiliated liberal]

68. With a well thought out hypothesis such as yours, Tikki, no

we definitely DON'T need any more stupid people. You've made it quite apparent that we already have far more than we need.

[Arkansas Granny]

56. Aside from the studies on medical marijuana, the current marijuana laws prevent us

from taking advantage of a valuable renewable resource. Industrial hemp production could provide fiber for much more than rope and it can be easily grown with less dependence on pesticides, herbicides and fertilizzers.

http://www.naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html

[Alexander]

60. This BBC article says marijuana can help treat brain tumors.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3561686.stm

If you are looking for studies on the health effects of marijuana/cannabis, I recommend looking at British studies - scientists over there research this stuff extensively using mice, mainly because the British don't have such a bug up their ass about weed as a lot of Americans do.

FYI, I don't think weed is some kind of cure-all, and I don't smoke it.

But I recognize that both weed and hemp have beneficial uses for people, and it's ridiculous to impose harsh sentences and fill up our prisons with people who possess and use a substance that is less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes.

[unaffiliated liberal]

66. From MSNBC's front page:

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/addiction/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100249166>1=

Wicki provides A LOT of links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis

Other than that, just use GOOGLE.

Also, a large part of the problem in conducting studies is the attitude of the U.S. government, which is hell bent on destroying the lives of anyone who attempts to conduct studies, just as it has destroyed the lives of so many people for simply smoking a little weed.

There are jails to fill, prosecutors, guards, cops, lawyers, and judges who have to make a living on low hanging fruit like pot heads instead of fighting real crime against truly dangerous criminals.

[Vickers]

69. Unrec'ed because you think pot smells bad. n/t

[tekisui]

71. lol.

I love the smell so much, I like for others to smoke before me, so I can savor the smell.

[harun]

74. Word.

[madokie]

70. For what its worth

next time you eat a hot pepper that is way too hot for your taste buds go take a toke from the ole bowl and you'll see the burning go immediately away, like right now.

[krabigirl]

72. Well..

People don't have to smoke it. On the very rare times I have access to it, I prefer to eat it, but the effects are very different. I do not like smoking, either, but I think people should be able to, as long as they aren't doing it in an enclosed space with a non-smoking person.