Obama hints at Pacific Rim free-trade pact

[DainBramaged]

President Barack Obama raised hopes for creating an Asia-Pacific free-trade region by announcing Saturday that the U.S. would seek to join a smaller group seen as a precursor to a broader Pacific Rim agreement.

News that the U.S. would participate in the Trans-Pacific Partnership — joining Chile, New Zealand, Singapore and Brunei — was announced in Tokyo and Singapore, drawing applause at the annual Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum.

"Significant steps like the TPP are important to help keep up the momentum in our efforts to realize the ... vision" to create a region-wide free trade area, Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong told other leaders at their weekend summit here.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33885964/ns/politics-white_house/


More jobs dissolving, more advantages pissed away to mollify Asia.............making Republicans happy one trade agreement at a time......

[DJ13]

1. Not again......

We really need to get the corporate influence OUT of our political system before its too late.

(If its not already too late.)

[Indenturedebtor]

91. It's too late. Abandon all hope all ye that enter here n/t

[Subdivisions]

103. It's all about corporate profits. Fuck everything else. n/t

[MadHound]

2. That dime's worth of difference is now becoming just a couple of cents

Really, haven't we learned anything about outsourcing our industry to Asia and other countries. Oh, wait, this isn't about the good of the people, this is about insuring ever more profits for Corporate America.

[bobbolink]

140. Amen!

We want our dime back!!

[AndyA]

3. Obama, you're taking another step in the wrong direction.

WHY another free trade agreement? Have the others brought our country jobs? Prosperity? Anything? No, they have not. They have taken, taken, taken, and the American people pay 100% of the price for this foolishness.

Not good, Barack, not good at all. :(

[QC]

16. But it's only been 11 months! Pony! Poutrage! Why do you hate hope?

Did I leave anything out?

[Bluebear]

57. Yes. PUMA and You Never Liked Him To Begin With

[JoeyT]

82. Is it even possible to hate hope?

You forgot to repeatedly remind us that the ship of state takes time to slow down for a turn while completely ignoring the fact that it's being run full steam ahead. And something about a car and chess.

Next you pretend to be outraged when someone calls you a cheerleader. ;)

[Deja Q]

129. I wonder how all the 'extremist' Black groups feel...

The New Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, et al... helped what is, in their own terms, an "Oreo", win.

[NightWatcher]

4. To effectively compete are we going to have to drop the minimum wage to $1 a day?

I heard about the story from the Times saying that in order to compete with the global economy, the American worker is going to need to learn to live off of a few dollars a day, on par with global labor like slave, child, and prison workers in parts of China.

I dont want to have to compete with that.

[amandabeech]

7. Don't forget to dump the environmental and safety rules while you're at it.

Oh yes, social security and medicaid are out the door, too.

[Subdivisions]

104. Well, since we are now a service enconomy, I don't think we'll have to

compete with burger-flippers in Beijing. I don't think our HVAC service guys are going to have to compete with an HVAC guy from India.

[OnionPatch]

111. If they could find a way to replace them, they would.

We didn't think our IT jobs would be lost overseas, either. At first it was only the manufacturing jobs leaving the US.

They won't really have to replace burger flipper jobs, though. Since they will be the only low-skill work left in America, there will be masses of desperate people competing for them.....just what corporate America wants. They can keep the wages very low that way.

[phasma ex machina]

116. Roto-Rooter guys also enjoy immunity to globalism. nt

[Greyhound]

142. Just wait until the corporations start crying that they can't find qualified HVAC people. n/t

[laundry_queen]

155. The problem being

that no one will be able to afford burgers or HVAC service guys if you have to compete w/Asia.

[Deja Q]

128. That isn't competition. That's inhumane and I don't give a shit which country it is.

[Mari333]

5. very very bad. very.

[amandabeech]

6. How are NAFTA and MFN for China helping our net jobs situation again?

How are they helping to provide for a wide range of job for a wide range of aptitudes?

I'm embarrassed about those phone bank calls I made to Indiana about how Obama would help bring back manufacturing jobs.

If any of you from Indiana reading this heard earnest messages from someone who used to live in Michigan, you have my sincerest apologies. I was totally and absolutely wrong.

[Luciferous]

19. I feel the same way

I really thought that things would be better under Obama, but I guess I was just being naive.

I live in an area where the unemployment rate is at 15% (not adjusted) and it's mainly because of the loss of manufacturing jobs.

[amandabeech]

40. Thanks for posting.

I keep telling myself that Obama is better because McCain would have turned Iran to glass by now, but I had hoped that somehow he would manage to open his eyes. It's not to be, I guess.

My cousin lives in Flint, Michigan. He's 55 and will probably never have a real job again even though he has a B.A. Thank heavens his wife has a masters and oodles of seniority at the local middle school. Nonetheless, it's not doing much for any aspect of his health.

[JCMach1]

68. Not only that wait until cheap U.S. grains put China's farmers out of business

turning them into impoverished factory fodder...

[amandabeech]

71. Sorry. China often has difficulty producing enough food for itself.

They buy U.S. agricultural products because they need them. The more they industrialize and either pave over or pollute their agricultural land and irrigation water, the more they will need to import food and not just from the U.S. They already import considerable amounts from Brazil and Canada.

There is absolutely no indication that China would get itself or has involved itself in a trade pact that would in any way harm it.

Mexico signed a lousy trade pact with the U.S. and Canada. Many believe that Mexico's ruling class, which is very wealthy and very small, thought that they would make a lot of money, and they care even less about their poorer countrymen than their U.S. compatriots.

[JCMach1]

90. True, but we will put their farmers out of business like we have Mexico's

NAFTA has been a double-edged sword and good for no one but the ruling classes.

[amandabeech]

161. We don't grow enough food to put both China's and Mexico's farmers out of business.

Read my first post. China doesn't always grow enough food for itself. Currently it and India are buying farmland in Africa to grow food for themselves. I believe that S. Korea and Japan are, too.

Moreover, if our population continues to grow, and we continue to pave over good farmland like we have for the past 60 years in order to make room for more people, we may not be able to feed ourselves! Already in the southwest, we are already having problems with water supply in many years.

[JVS]

8. Bad idea. Any trade agreements should be based on countries providing good wages...

and responsible policies concerning pollution.

[Go2Peace]

9. ***F-A-I-R TRADE*** Not "Free" trade Damnit!

Making the same mistakes over and over. I am not sure if we can ever get to better policy as long as our leaders are comfortable and well paid and surrounded by the rich, ruling, elite. They seem to live in another world. Everything looks rosie for them so there must not be any underlying structural problems with policies of the past. Just need to "tweak" them a bit.

This is why I can only support this administration with reservation. We need *fundamental* reform because our global policies are based on bancrupt ideology. I don't think Obama really understands that. I think he believes, like Clinton did, that the problem is not that global, semi-libertarian, "free market" ideology doesn't work, but that (for the 10th time), it just "hasn't been implimented correctly".

Bullshit. IT DOESN'T work, and it is killing us!

We need Fair Trade, based that includes limitations designed to shift economies toward inner stability and equivilency in competition, and build community. You will never get that as long as you listen to the big corporations.

[Yuugal]

10. Where are the pom pom girls?

Maybe we can post some nice pictures of Obama and Michele looking dapper and PC and all these little problems, like Obama helping dismantle America even more, will seem much better. K&R. Expect this thread to sink like a rock. :) Thanks for posting it though.

[HughMoran]

11. What is a "pom pom girl"?

?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

23. So anybody who doesn't acknowledge that "Obama hasn't done a damn thing ... of substance"

is a "pom pom girl"?

Now is this a broad-brush attack on any DUer who believes this, or is there a certain misogyny that goes with this as you've clearly singled out a particular female and used the word "girl"?

[Yuugal]

26. Thats you restating what I said incorrectly

My point is that all the DLC "centrists" who hate us progressives sure loved us last fall, and next fall you'll be back. If I don't answer the door, its because I see where this train is going and I want off. As far as "Singling out a female" or whatever verbal bullshit you want to start now, I mentioned her because I like her and figured her a safe example of someone who truly believes. Since I've been called a freeper, brainwashed, and now a misogynist for not worshiping Obama, I feel just like I do with the church. Same tactics, same lack of ability to discuss strategy or any issue without invoking their belief which of course in their mind I should share, but I don't. I don't mind religious people like that though if they respect my right to my own opinion.

The difference between you and her is she is open minded and we can discuss things without resorting to the old "your a racist sexist" whatever crap.

[HughMoran]

33. Well, since you're so open minded

& you like listing the names you've been called (whilst spewing the most vile of stereotypical BS I've ever read here), here's another name you can get used to - "ignored". :eyes:

[Yuugal]

36. Its like the unrec thing

Doesn't bother me at all if people don't like what I say. For you to ignore me means I can say my view with one less guy attacking me. Please, all you worshipers , ignore me now. If all the worshipers ignored me I'd have free reign to clearly make my points without having to defend my character 90% of the thread.

[Bluebear]

58. Do try to pick of the pieces of your broken life.

Being ignored and all lol. :toast:

[DireStrike]

13. I guess they really want to break the American middle class down into peasants

I dunno why. We never do anything to them. Even when they deserve to have things done to them.

[anonymous171]

14. God dammit. nt

[Bluebear]

113. nodding

[Luciferous]

15. I was so pissed when I read that article earlier today...

Obama continues to take this country in the wrong direction...

[Junkdrawer]

17. Motto: "Because NAFTA didn't drain jobs fast enough"

Yes, we CAN build an economy giving each other haircuts.

[KamaAina]

67. No we cannot so stop saying that!

Mani-pedi's have to be in the mix, too! :sarcasm:

edit: smilie

[Deja Q]

130. We should all become prostitutes. Some earn $5000 per blow job... AND are non-partisan!

:shrug:

[QC]

18. How very, very hopeful and changealicious! n/t

[GCP]

20. I'm getting really sick of this

He's at least as bad as Clinton when it comes to corporatism.
Obama - don't try to tell me this is good for American workers because you know what? IT'S FUCKING NOT
We're in a race to the bottom and the working class in this country is bearing all the burden, while the fat cats get fatter and fatter.
"The capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them" - Lenin.
Maybe it should read - "The capitalists will sell all their workers down the drain, take the profits and go live on ranches in South America".

[depakid]

21. This will prove to be very popular with the base....

[Brickbat]

22. I'm tired of this shit. Really, really tired. Could someone please explain to me how this creates

jobs here in the U.S.? Or outline any other advantages this gives us? Because I'm just not seeing it.

[StreetKnowledge]

30. It doesn't.

This idea of free trade is destructive to us AND them. For us, it costs us jobs - ask anybody who has ever lived in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey and New England, causing more problems at a geometric rate when unemployment rises.

For them, it means that they don't have much chance to develop at their own pace, and they get exploited for cheap labor. This is a giant problem in China, India, Indonesia, Pakistan and many other places. On top of the exploitation, in most cases the money allows the local governments to continue exploiting people and abusing human rights, and the governments allow this fast development to happen at the expense of the local environment.

Then you have the additional problem of transporting goods. IIRC, it costs $25,000 or so to move a shipping container full of goods from China to the United States, then you have to transport it by truck or by rail to its destination, which costs additional money.

If Obama was talking about free-trade deals with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Australia and New Zealand (or any of the above) you could get US jobs out of it because the playing field with those countries is a lot more level. But with China, its a recipe for yet more job losses, yet more of the same sorryass pattern we've been seeing for 25 years.

[Brickbat]

31. No, I know.

I was just being sarcastic. But thanks for the answer anyway.

[pokercat999]

158. You forgot all the textile jobs in the South , NC, SC, etc. I

don't know where you got the numbers on shipping costs, but a few years ago I was quoted about $3000 per container from Japan to the US.

[neverforget]

24. Another free trade agreement to go with all the others that have worked out

really well.......:puke:

[liberal_at_heart]

25. I thought he was suppose to be working on creating jobs here in the US

[Deja Q]

132. Beijing is the 51st state. Mumbai is the 52nd.

[ProSense]

27. Clearly this is a going to be a bad thing.

What's in it?

[DainBramaged]

28. USTR FACT SHEET: Trans-Pacific Partnership

INCREASING U.S. EXPORTS, CREATING AMERICAN JOBS: ENGAGEMENT WITH THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


INCREASING U.S. EXPORTS, CREATING AMERICAN JOBS: ENGAGEMENT WITH THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP

On November 14, 2009, President Obama shared the United States' intention to engage with the Trans-Pacific Partnership and other economies in the region in an effort toward regional economic integration in the Asia-Pacific. This effort will be pursued with the goals of increasing American exports in the region and creating good jobs at home, through robust engagement in a region that already represents more than 40 percent of world trade.

The Trans-Pacific Partnership

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a potential platform for economic integration across the Asia Pacific region. The United States will engage with an initial group of seven like-minded countries, Singapore, Chile, New Zealand, Brunei, Australia, Peru, and Vietnam, to craft a platform for a high-standard, comprehensive agreement - one that reflects U.S. priorities and values - with these and additional Asia-Pacific partners.

American Opportunity in the Asia-Pacific

Over the past four and a half years (1st quarter 2005 to 3rd quarter 2009), trade has remained an important part of the U.S. economy. American goods and services exports to the world accounted for 40 percent of real GDP growth in the United States. The Asia Pacific's robust economies offer huge opportunities to grow U.S. exports, thereby creating and retaining high-quality, high-paying jobs in the United States.

According to the East-West Center, Asia already accounts for 27 percent of total U.S. jobs from exports and employment from exports to Asia grew 12 percent from 2002 to 2006. The International Monetary Fund forecasts that the Asia-Pacific economies will grow faster than the world average through at least 2014. Expanding U.S. exports to the Asia-Pacific region can contribute significantly to further job growth and economic recovery for America's working families.

A Foundation for Success

The huge markets of the Asia Pacific already are key destinations for U.S. manufactured goods, agricultural and services suppliers. U.S. goods exports to the Asia Pacific totaled $747 billion in 2008, up 8.3 percent over 2007, with agricultural products comprising $76 billion in 2008 - a 30-percent increase over the previous year. U.S. services exports totaled $186.5 billion in 2008, up 7.7 percent over 2007. America's small- and medium-sized enterprises alone exported $173 billion to the Asia-Pacific in 2008.

Jobs supported by goods exports - the kinds of jobs that engagement in the Asia-Pacific can help to grow - pay 13-18 percent higher than the national average. A 2008 University of Michigan study estimates that an Asia-Pacific trade agreement would increase real U.S. income by 1.2 percent.

American Competitiveness in the Asia-Pacific

Engagement with the Trans-Pacific Partnership can help America ensure its share of the job-creating economic opportunities this region has to offer. While U.S. exports to the Asia-Pacific increased by 63 percent during the past five years, our share of trade in the region has declined by three percent in favor of U.S. competitors. Asia-Pacific countries have negotiated bilateral trade agreements and regional agreements, including ASEAN + 3 (Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam, Brunei, Cambodia, Laos, and Burma plus China, Japan, and Korea) and ASEAN + 6 (ASEAN plus China, Japan, Korea, India, Australia, New Zealand).

A 2001 study by Robert Scollay forecasts that America could lose as much as $25 billion in exports annually solely from the static discriminatory effects of an East Asia Free Trade Area excluding the United States.

http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/press-office/fact-sheets/2009/november/ustr-fact-sheet-trans-pacific-partnership

[LWolf]

29. What a champ.

:sarcasm:

:grr:

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. Is champ code for corporate toady?

:grr: Oops I forgot, he's the smartest guy in the WORLD!!!, knows more than ANYONE else!!! :eyes:

[LWolf]

34. Both, depending

on where you stand. ;)

Corporate toady, indeed. :thumbsup:

[latebloomer]

141. your sigline doesn't work n/t

[Individualist]

35. More DLC doublespeak

:puke:

[bvar22]

37. It is NOT possible to be a Free Trader....

...AND Pro-LABOR.
It is one or the other.

What ever happened to EFCA and "renegotiate NAFTA"?


Under the bus?

[QC]

38. Oh, well, that was during the campaign.

You know how that is.

[pokercat999]

160. All that liberal stuff is in the closet, waiting for the 2011

rollout on the new audacity of hope. Well hope and wish are very much the same propaganda. You know the old saying; wish in one hand and crap in the other see which one gets full first. I knew better, I really did. After Dennis got knocked out I should have just given up. I gotta admit Obama is GOOD, he conned me into thinking he would be different, and I KNEW better......oh well. Kinda like sticking with that pair of Kings after an Ace hits the board and someone else raises your bet. You know you're going to lose but you already have money invested in the hand so you throw in some more. I'm done I'm folding this hand. Now I'm looking for a different game, one played with an honest deck and where the dealer deals them from the top only.

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. Under the bus is getting very crowded.

x(

[theHandpuppet]

39. A big UP YOURS to the American worker

This makes me sick.

[Elwood P Dowd]

41. I am just about to the point of giving up on Obama.

The DLC and corporate crowd now own his ass. They put a nice suite on him, give him some talking points, wind him up, and put him out there before the public.

[Deja Q]

131. Yet other countries are worried about his policies on offshoring.

Are we the only ones being played as chumps?

Or is he trying to be sincere for EVERYBODY?

That is the question we must ask ourselves.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

42. Oh no! Asians having decent jobs! Run! Hide!

Why won't these goddamn peasants understand their place in the world?

[rockymountaindem]

44. If by "decent jobs" you mean living in squalor and making a pittance

in exchange for being virtually enslaved by their employers, then yeah, good jobs in Asia abound from things like this.

[Elwood P Dowd]

45. US workers making $15.00 an hour fired and replaced by Asians making 50 cents.

What kind of sick puppy are you? The only people benefiting from these fucked-up trade deals are corporate CEOs and filthy rich investors.

[anonymous171]

53. Maybe he is a CEO or a filthy rich investor?

He could be John Stossel for all I know. Sounds kind of like him.

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. A rich filthy CEO perhaps?

:evilgrin:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

78. Ya, I'm filthy rich.

Because filthy rich people spend their time chatting on internet discussion forums.

[DainBramaged]

62. he is a free trade squatter here.

He is anti-American labor, period.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

65. That might be true if it weren't bullshit.

I'd be very interested if you could show any statistics suggesting that poverty has increased in any industrialized Asian country in the past two decades. The fact is that poverty has been lowered, and it is a direct result of industrialization and the ability of Asian countries to sell their goods without excessive tariffs.

[amandabeech]

72. And to keep their currencies artificially low.

And forget about any environmental standards.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

77. Yes, because we're really leading the world in establishing environmental standards.

[amandabeech]

85. We're doing a helluva lot better than them.

Why don't you go and live there for awhile since you don't now live in any country?

[Selatius]

137. You've got to be joking me. Honestly, China's standards are far worse than ours.

And their labor standards are atrocious if they are even enforced at all.

[Elwood P Dowd]

80. You are so full of shit.

China charges us enormous taxes and tariffs. The last time I shipped something to China it was over 30%. The same product shipped from China to the USA was only 2%. It's almost as bad in Europe. Ship an electronic component to The Netherlands, and you're looking at the possibility of a 25% VAT in addition to the tariffs.

Trade deals that you support are killing the middle class workers in the US, and you want even more jobs shipped to Asia. Just how bad does it have to get before you wake the hell up? Who in the hell is going to buy this shit made by Chinese slaves when we're all unemployed or working at $8.00 an hour Wal Mart jobs?

Our free trade policies have shipped 10 million jobs out of the country since the 1980s. We are now paying the price for that insanity, yet you want more of it. Just how much suffering does it take for people like you to wake the hell up?

[girl gone mad]

92. They've got that base covered, too, I'm afraid.

"Who in the hell is going to buy this shit made by Chinese slaves when we're all unemployed or working at $8.00 an hour Wal Mart jobs?"

The Fed will simply print more money and bail the corporatists out on the American taxpayers' dime. Forget about ever saving or getting ahead if you're unfortunate enough to be born into the bottom 99%.

[Deja Q]

134. I've read that too. Thank you for responding to these folks...

[Selatius]

136. Try selling American products on Chinese shores and see how much they levy in tariffs.

It's just as bad in Europe. When we open up our borders and they don't and insist we stick to the trade agreements, we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage.

[slutticus]

101. Says the guy with the Apple logo

"Designed in California, manufactured in China"

indeed

[OhioChick]

47. Always on every thread dissing the American worker, I've noticed. n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

49. +1 n/t

[QC]

55. Never fails. n/t

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

98. Then stop bothering us, save yourself the mental anguish......

[OhioChick]

100. Name calling now, I see....

I'm a and am by no means a "prick".

Standing up for American workers does not make me a member in a "silly little hate-filled racist club.

Grow up.

[spoony]

88. An accurate observation nt

[anonymous171]

51. Yeah, don't they know that they need to work for us?

How else can we maintain our standard of living? Seriously the nerve of these people. You'd think they believed in "national determination" or some other anti-american bs.

[Deja Q]

127. You grossly miss the point, but it's not worth trying to spell it out to you.

[PM Martin]

60. Considered the username

"Newscorp Goldman Sachs Bush"?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

64. The username is a joke based on Palin's rather odd naming of her children.

It's sarcasm.

[DainBramaged]

61. Go spew your bullshit somewhere else, you wouldn't support American labor

if it bit you in the ass. And why don't you go bother someone who gives a shit about your 'free' trade crap.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

63. I don't know that I've ever spewed "free trade crap."

That appears to be your interpretation whenever I disagree with you. I supported the bailout of your industry, but I'm not going to support everything you say. You, despite your delusions of grandeur, are not the avatar of American labor.

[DainBramaged]

97. You've haunted my threads for over a year, you act like a spurned lover

because you hold a grudge and think one day you will get one up on me. Face it, you'll always be nothing more than the janitor when it comes to debating skills, and you bring NOTHING to the discussion, except to insult and attack other members. Your opinion of yourself as an expert on ANYTHING is so absurd it should be framed and used as an example of a bad joke at a clown college.

[spoony]

87. Ahh, more anti-American labour propaganda

Calling people who'll lose their jobs racists for not liking it, that's some classy shit right there. Keep scolding the workers you RW tool.

[anigbrowl]

120. Sorry, he's right. There is a lot of anti-Asian racism on threads like this.

Mrs Browl is Asian American. Maybe you should try treading these threads from that perspective and think about how they look. O mentally substitute 'Africa' for 'Asia' and ask yourself if it still sounds cool. It's not anti-worker to point out that people in other countries have a perfect right to compete in the global economy. It's not like American workers haven't done well out of the US demanding other countries open their markets to US products over the years, which is why Ford, Coca-Cola, Intel and so on are global brands.

[spoony]

153. They "look" like corporate tools telling anyone against

unfair trade and unbridled globalism that they're racists in a desperate attempt to shut them up. And if you have proof to the contrary, that these threads are just "anti-Asian", now'd be the time to produce it.

[girl gone mad]

93. You have an odd definition of decent jobs.

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/free-trade-fails-to-bring-better-jobs-in-poor-nations-study/75770/on

Free trade fails to bring better jobs in poor nations: Study

Freer trade has failed to create better working conditions in the developing world, a joint study by the World Trade Organisation and UN labour agency said on Monday.

Instead it has produced new jobs mainly in the less-secure informal economy, the report found.

"Strong growth in the global economy has not, so far, led to a corresponding improvement in working conditions and living standards for many," it said.

According to the WTO and International Labour Organisation report, informal labour in developing economies accounts for 30 per cent to 90 per cent of the workforce.

"Trade has contributed to growth and development worldwide. But this has not automatically translated in an improvement in the quality of employment," said Pascal Lamy, director-general of the WTO.

"Trade opening needs proper domestic policies to create good jobs. This is all the more evident with the current crisis which has reduced trade and thrown thousands into informal jobs," he added.

The growth of an informal economy also has the adverse effect of stunting the ability of a country to diversify its exports, thereby depressing overall economic growth, added the report.

--------------------------------------

In other words, in case you share the same reading comprehension deficit that so man DLCers seem to have, workers in developing nations are trading stable, quality jobs for transient, menial jobs. This is an obvious result of trade and economic policies that encourage employers to constantly seek out the cheapest labor, often pitting third world countries against each other in a never ending race to the bottom of the barrel for working conditions and wages.

[Deja Q]

126. If globalization were expansion, nobody would lose their job.

Can't you fathom the goddamn obvious?

[Angry Dragon]

43. This is not what I voted for...........n/t

This not the new way of doing things.

This not protecting this country.

People do not have jobs now.what will they do if this goes through??

[SammyWinstonJack]

50. Obama doesn't seem too concerned about decent paying jobs for American workers. Nice, eh?

[Angry Dragon]

66. I never saw this coming......... did anyone see this coming??

[Elwood P Dowd]

69. I was hoping it wouldn't be a repeat of Clinton, but

I'm afraid it might be much worse. Clinton abandoned us during an economic boom with his support of NAFTA and GATT. Obama wants to do it during the worst economic times since the Great Republican Depression of the 1930s. I don't think he has a clue about what to do with this mess. He listens to that same bunch of Clinton advisors for his economic and trade advise.

[amandabeech]

74. Yes. When I read that he had hired Austan Goolsbee from the U. of Chicago.

It is why I did not support Obama in the primaries.

[QC]

109. There were many such signs during the primaries

that we were not dealing with an actual liberal here, but most people got so caught up in the pretty speeches and such, and anyone who suggested that something was wrong promptly got hounded out of here.

[amandabeech]

114. Early on, I'd had my fill of GD-Politics.

Between the Obama-is-God posters and the misogynism directed toward Hillary supporters, it was simply pointless.

His speeches, while nicely delivered, didn't come across as anything really knew when read in print. It was like an excellent singer who can make even a mediocre song into a hit.

[QC]

150. It was a nasty time, wasn't it?

Of course, the management's decision to throw out the rules and let 'er rip didn't help.

[amandabeech]

151. If DU is still around for the next Dem primary (maybe 2016), I'll stay away.

The moderators were far too loosey-goosey with inappropriate posts for my tastes as well.

[QC]

152. It really was a disaster. In 2004, people who showed up spitting fire and personal attacks

got the boot. This last time, they got control of the site, with the management's blessing, apparently.

Did you ever think they would allow gravedancing threads in which newly arrived vandals congratulated one another for running off loyal, longtime members of this site? That is something I will never forget.

[amandabeech]

164. Yes. DU lost quite a few quality posters in that fiasco.

I wonder where they all went? On to more productive pastimes?

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. Yes I did, centrist

DLC.... see appointments...

See Empire.

Until the Empire finally dies the logic of Empire is the logic of Empire

[Greyhound]

143. You must be fairly new here, many, many people saw this coming

and wrote about it during the two year primary.

[QC]

148. Quite a few of those people aren't here anymore.

Funny how that worked out, isn't it?

[Greyhound]

149. Good point. n/t

[noamnety]

115. Ah, but you are missing the larger picture.

Obama inspired me to eat organic spinach and work out twice a week!!!

:eyes:

[OhioChick]

48. New boss, same as the old boss. n/t

[ChromeFoundry]

52. change you can believe in

:sarcasm:

[unkachuck]

56. goodie....more jobs lost....n/t

[nyc 4 Biden]

59. I really hope The Nation does an article on this soon. n/t

[DFW]

94. I know Katrina slightly. You can count on it! n/t

[AdHocSolver]

70. There is no such thing as "free trade". It is a corporate buzz word designed to...

...hide the fact that all of our trade agreements are just corporate cartel agreements to stifle competition and maintain corporate control of trade.

These cartel agreements are designed to make it easy for corporations to set up factories in low-wage countries, for example China, and then import the Chinese manufactured goods back into the U.S. without paying import taxes. It is the American corporations that push this to make even more profit by offshoring jobs to cheap-labor countries.

This practice (euphemistically labeled "free-trade") is what is destroying the U.S. economy and bringing on the coming depression.

Expanding "free trade" is like putting out a fire by throwing gasoline on it. We already import such a high percentage of the goods that we buy, that we can never reduce the trade deficit by eliminating jobs and importing more cheap stuff. It is plainly stupid to think that countries like China will increase imports from the U.S. when they can already produce everything in their own country more cheaply than they could buy it from the U.S. More "free trade" agreements will merely speed up the destruction of the U.S. economy.

What we should be doing is getting rid of NAFTA, MFN status for China and other slave-wage countries, getting rid of the WTO, the World Bank, the IMF, and imposing trade quotas and import duties on any products manufactured in slave-wage states to allow American companies who want to produce goods here with American workers the ability to compete with the corporate cartels.

[moondust]

75. +10000

Well said.

[OhioChick]

105. You're absolutely right and well said. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

106. Well said

Not to mention that it dooms the 3rd world workers to permanently low wages, dead-end jobs and toxic work conditions.

If anything, this is even worse news for the Pacific Rim countries.

[MilesColtrane]

73. Don't worry.

Soon the standard of living and cost of labor in China and India will surpass the U.S.

The those outsourced jobs will come rollin' in, baby!!

[dysfunctional press]

76. a rising tide lifts all yachts.

if you don't have a yacht- you'd better learn to tread water.

[yurbud]

81. I vaguely remember Obama distancing himself from the DLC during the primaries...

now he's fulfilling as much of their agenda as fast as he can and giving away the store (OUR store).

[QC]

118. The only difference between Obama and a card carrying member of the DLC

is the card.

[Individualist]

159. The distancing was a smoke screen.

Had he openly allied himself with DLC, he'd never have been elected. Once elected, it has been DLC agenda all the way beginning with the appointment of Rahm Emmanuel.

[earth mom]

83. Let's just call this what it is: NAFTA/CAFTA for Asia.

Told ya'll so Obama was a corporatist! :argh:

Quick, everybody start talking about horrible Palin is (which we already know she is) so that it will take the heat off of Obama!!! :puke:

[Libertas1776]

84. Always putting America last.

Same shit, different smell. :freak:

[optimator]

86. more evidence Dems hate being in power

infinite war
aiding wall street criminals
telling gays to shut up
telling women they don't deserve equal health care
forcing young people to buy private insurance they don't need and can't afford
plans for legalizing aliens while unemployment at historic highs
now this asian-nafta-crap

[Andronex]

89. Never believed in Obama but...

honestly I never thought he would be this bad, what will be left of America in ten years, it seems that all that matters is corporate greed, except for a few wedge issues both parties are interchangeable.

Anyway lets get back to Glen Beck and the tea baggers for our 2 minutes of hate...

[DFW]

95. I'll wait and see what really happens before going ballistic

Chile, New Zealand and Brunei are not China and India.

Chile and New Zealand may make producers of copper, wool and mutton nervous.

China (without a huge currency revaluation) and India should scare the living
crap out of every working stiff within our borders.

[DainBramaged]

99. Right here.....

http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/press-office/fact-sheets/2009/november/ustr-fact-sheet-trans-pacific-partnership

[Greyhound]

144. The problem with that is once you see what really happened, it's too late. n/t

[pokercat999]

96. It's time for a new trade agreement with the entire world.

Well not exactly an "agreement" but new trading regulations, superseding all previous regulations and agreements.

Any product imported or service rendered to Americans on US soil must be made in it's entirety in countries with the following ENFORCED regulations:

The same wage and hour regulations that are the current laws and regulations of the US.

The same OSHA rules and regulations that are the current laws and regulations of the US.

The same EPA rules and regulations that are the current laws and regulations of the US.

All imports will be held in storage until those new trading requirements are investigated and found to be in use and enforced, the inspection and verification process to be carried out by licensed agents of the US govt and paid for by the importing manufacturers.

This would level the playing field and increase the living standards of millions if not billions of people world wide.

[pampango]

157. That a big positive step. It's similar to what the EU does when it admits new members.

Before a country can join, it has to adopt certain standards with respect to labor and environmental laws, human rights, judicial "rule of law" standards, reduced corruption, etc.

Once countries meet these standards and are admitted into the EU, borders with the other EU countries are opened up to free trade and immigration. The people in the newly admitted countries, historically have become much more prosperous very quickly. As they do, their consumers become a market for industries in the existing EU countries.

If the EU's policy was just to allow exports from these potential new member countries rather than offering them full membership and equality, there would have been much less pressure from people in central and eastern Europe on their own governments to change. If we offer to block or to allow imports from a country, you're basically dealing with that country's business sector and government. If you offer something more like full membership and equality, like the EU does, you are dealing directly with the citizens of that country to encourage them to pressure their own government for reform.

[Kitsune]

102. Wow. We are so, so fucked.

Even with Dems running the joint, we're being screwed by far right flat-earthers.

Can't we just admit that capitalism has failed completely and try something different? :(

[Andronex]

107. "Can't we just admit that capitalism has failed completely"

while capitalism might have failed the vast majority of the worlds population, it hasn't failed the wealthy ruling class, and they are the ones who call the shots.

[OnionPatch]

108. I see Obama is working real hard to create jobs.....

For OTHER COUNTRIES.

So much for the "change" I voted for.

[DainBramaged]

110. Like on SNL, bankruptcy attorneys, repo men, auctioneers.....

high quality jobs........Or like he guys at Home Depot, accountants, guys with MBA's waiting to help you find a screw......

[lovelyrita]

112. WTF!

What is the point of supporting Democrats who institute the same policies as Republicans when it comes to international trade?

The ridiculous lies in this piece make me sick to my stomach.

"In this new era, opening other markets around the globe will be critical not just to America's prosperity, but to the world's," Obama said in Tokyo before departing for the APEC forum.

"A rising tide lifts all boats," he said. "If we work together to rise above this downturn, we can lift up all our economies and all our peoples."
"Washington sees free-trade areas as a way to create jobs in the U.S., said Kirk, standing in for Obama, who arrived in Singapore later Saturday."

What the hell is wrong with the President? I've slowly become angrier at this administrations policies but this may have pushed me right over the edge. The quotes from the President in this article proves that he does not get it and is definitely a corporate tool.

[anigbrowl]

117. I would support such a thing, because free trade is good

You don't think so? OK, let's institute tariffs between different American states, to 'protect' workers in rich states from those in poor states. And tell the Europeans they have to get rid of their free trade area and go back to putting tariffs on each thers exports...probably better get rid of the Euro and the federal dollar while you're at it, and give each state its own currency.

People like to sound off about free trade agreements, but the US and EU are ongoing demonstrations of why they are a good things. If you are realy against free trade, call up your state legislature and your governor and demand tariffs on goods made outside of your state. Put your money where your mouth is.

[anonymous171]

119. I never knew that unemployment was a good thing.

:crazy:

[anigbrowl]

121. Didn't take long for the straw man arguments to appear

Maybe next time you can address the actual argument I made. I'm not getting my hopes up, though.

[anonymous171]

123. OK. Your analogy was false.

The EU is in no way comparable to the US. The EU is an intergovernment organization, while the United States of a America is a nation-state. Similarly, the individual American states are not individual countries

Your argument, that free Trade is "good" is wrong also. Free Trade has brought nothing but misery upon the American worker.

[anigbrowl]

124. No, I don't think so.

"The EU is an intergovernment organization, while the United States of a America is a nation-state."

First, the EU has governmental powers; I oughta know, as I'm European. Second, there is no analogy being made: it's fact that botht he EU and US are made up of member states which have a tariff-free internal market and are thus a giant free trade zone, and it's fact that in both cases this is constitutionally protected.

by your logic, if protectionism is good for countries, it should be good for states also. So, whichever state you're in, I encourage you o fight for tariffs on imports from the other 49.

"Your argument, that free Trade is "good" is wrong also. Free Trade has brought nothing but misery upon the American worker."

Wow, compelling rebuttal you have there. I'd say American workers have done pretty well over the years from the export of American goods overseas, which is part of how the US came to be a leading industrial power to begin with. By contrast, Europe's past protectionist policies have been less good for European workers, which is one reason I'm very pro-EU and the abolition of border controls in general. Such policies are certainly not free of stress, but I believe they're much better for ordinary people over the long run. A typical European worker enjoys considerably more purchasing power today than he or she would have 30 years ago.

[anonymous171]

135. Production may have increased, but wages for the American worker have been stagnant.

I think you are mistaken about the term "free trade." When the business world talks about "free trade" they are talking about the free movement of capital across national borders. Which is fine only if there is also free movement of labor across national borders (like what you were saying about free internal markets in the the EU and America.)On the international scale, travel between states is much more restricted.

[Romulox]

163. You argument would work, except that Europeans tend to enjoy a higher standaard of living

than do Americans. :hi:

[spoony]

154. Oh ffs, if I'd read this first...

I wouldn't have even bothered responding to you. You've lost the plot.

[Deja Q]

125. Well, if bankers can whine about 'return on investment' for education, so can we.

Not surprised.

[Deja Q]

133. The title suggests "hints". Nothing is signed yet, but people will likely be watching.

[Stinky The Clown]

138. I think this is great! Why sink slowly to third world status when we can race there insetad?

[anonymous171]

139. Doesn't the third world deserve a chance to produce cheap plastic shit for us?

Stop being such a racist.

[DainBramaged]

156. Corporate America is dying to get at Vietnam's cheap labor

one day, they are simply going to run out of places where the labor is cheaper than ours, then they will come back here when we're considered a Third World country...........

[Zynx]

145. Trade with Chile, New Zealand, and Singapore is more or less trade among equals.

Chile is a little low on that end, but for New Zealand and Singapore, it is hard to argue those are low cost labor countries. Brunei is more or less irrelevant due to its size. It also has relatively high wages by the standards of most countries in the area.

[Xicano]

146. And he said he was against NAFTA. HA!!!

So is it clear now that the phone conversation that happened with a Canadian with respect to NAFTA where an Obama spokesman said "don't worry about that, that's just campaign rhetoric" is true. Is it clear now that this wall street wolf in sheep's clothing is not one of us?

We all know this guy is spot on: >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5Ujn2UxTcY#t=2m4s

[Romulox]

162. He also called people frustrated by trade policy "bitter" and likened them to racists...

:shrug:

[Chisox08]

147. It is all part of the 3D Holo Chess Obama is playing.

See once all of the jobs leave the country Americans will be willing to accept any type of work for any wage. See once the cost of labor here in America drops lower then that of a third world country all of those jobs will come flooding back. We can hope.