Training officer says using taser on handcuffed prisoners not always wrong

[Heidi]

Updated:11/14/2009 12:00:09 AM

Grand Rapids, MI (WZZM) - Officer Bo Peters is the taser training officer on the Grand Rapids Community College police force.

He's watched the video of a Lansing police officer firing a taser into a 43-year old man in handcuffs causing the prisoner to fall face first onto the concrete pavement.

"I'm not going to even try to guess what was going through his head at the time," he says.

Officer Peters isn't second guessing the actions of the Lansing police officer who fired the taser or his two-week suspension by the Lansing police chief. But he says just because an individual is in handcuffs, doesn't mean the taser shouldn't be utilized.

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Related DU thread: Officer suspended for Tasering handcuffed man

Same topic, different case

[annabanana]

1. tasers were a bad idea. . .n/t

[Th1onein]

2. Absolutely.

And they were supposed to decrease the number of deaths caused by an officer using his gun. That number has remained the same, while death by taser has risen every year since the advent of the use of tasers.

It's all too easy to use these weapons to torture prisoners, and to obtain "respect."

[paulsby]

9. rubbish

#1 most of the time people talk about death by taser, i ask them to cite the autopsy report that listed taser as the cause of death. and i get silence. i've explained numerous times how in custody deaths happen and always will due to a # of factors that have NOTHING to do with taser, and everything to do with unhealthy people in a fight or flight situation (massive adrenaline dump) frequently combined with polydrug combos, etc. show me all the autopsy reports that said taser caused the death

#2 it is NOT easy to use these weapons for torture, etc. unlike any other weapon, every discharge of a taser registers on a taser's internal computer, which can be downloaded/subpoena'd etc. to prove or disprove a taser use at a specific time. furthermore, every taser dart application also fires out hundreds of small discs of paper with that serial # on it of the cartridge that fired it.

[MattBaggins]

22. Splittin hairs much

so your right it's manslaughter then.

[paulsby]

25. way to evade the issue

i'll say it again:

present evidence of autopsy reports that list taser as the cause of death.

rhetoric is nice, but facts matter. and you have none

[Heidi]

3. And still are.

I don't believe they should be used to force compliance unless the suspect is a clear danger to him/herself or others. But we're seeing far too many cases where the Taser is discharged just be cause an officer is pissed.

[TexasObserver]

4. Recommend

[Heidi]

5. What do you think of Tasers being used to force compliance in non-life threatening situations?

My hope is that, like high-speed chases, Taser use as a compliance tool will become recognized as a high-liability practice that should be discouraged as a matter of policy.

[TexasObserver]

6. I think they can be used in some circumstances.

It's the entirely too quick trigger many police seem to have that worries me, along with no sense of restraint regarding excessive use.

If police are facing a guy who is high on PCP, weighs 280 pounds, and is 6'3, I can see how they might need to use it to subdue him. But they are ready to use it on 90 pounds, 80 year old grandmothers, and that's not acceptable.

Even in that circumstance, there's a real risk because they can bring on heart problems quickly.

[wroberts189]

7. After years of forcefully defending how safe they were they now say do not fire in certain parts. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. They are very safe.

[wroberts189]

13. Umm no they are not: Taser tells police to avoid shooting at chest

"Should sudden cardiac arrest occur in a scenario involving a Taser discharge to the chest area, it would place the law enforcement agency, the officer, and Taser International in the difficult situation of trying to ascertain what role, if any, (the device) could have played," according to the manual.

The manual includes a graphic displaying the human body and "preferred target areas." The company recommends firing Tasers anywhere but at the head, neck and chest. The manual says to avoid chest shots "when possible" and "unless legally justified."

Taser critics call the company's new recommendation an admission that the devices can cause heart attacks.

"It's a sea change, a passive acknowledgment that Taser has indeed been overconfident about its claims of safety," said Mark Silverstein, legal director of the ACLU of Colorado. "It underscores the question marks that have been adding up along with hundreds of bodies."

Amnesty International says more than 350 people in the U.S. died after they were shocked with Tasers, and that in 50 of those cases, medical examiners cited a link between Taser shocks and death.

on edit...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iJFYhxLKUUqqOdeDMoYP0y1IZe3wD9BFQCN82

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. That doesn't change the fact that they are extremely safe.

Deaths are extremely uncommon and almost always in suspects with tons of stimulants on board.

[JoeyT]

16. Are deaths the only metric we use to decide if something should be used?

If that's the case then hot needles under the fingernails should be used to get confessions. After all, no one dies from it.

Exactly what percentage of deaths are acceptable, especially when you take into consideration how quick with the taser some police are?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. I'm not aware of any significant physical disablities related to taser use.

So in this case deaths would likely be the only metric. You seem to be confusing torture with subduing suspects. Using a taser to get a suspect to talk would be an unconstitutional as waterboarding or ripping off fingernails.

[mstinamotorcity]

8. You know

maybe he is right. I don't know lets handcuff the officer and taser his ass and see if ok

[Shell Beau]

11. I am not a big fan of tasers, but I also have no experience

dealing with any jailed person. I would think that someone who was handcuffed would be easy to contain, but I have nothing to base that on experience wise. The way tasers have been abused totally takes away from any good they could do any officer of the law.

[winyanstaz]

12. I think tazers are deadly...they kill people...and to tazer someone in restraints....

is torture. Plain and simple.

[JoeyT]

17. That's pretty much what's at the heart of the matter.

The people that gleefully defend tasers are the same people that didn't mind our government torturing people.

[Naturyl]

14. How could it not be wrong?

The handcuffed subject is no threat. How could using a taser on restrained subjects be right?

[Echo In Light]

18. Here's why...

[intaglio]

19. 2 points here

Firstly the important quote here is from the training officer, Officer Peters;

Officer Peters isn't second guessing the actions of the Lansing police officer who fired the taser or his two-week suspension by the Lansing police chief. But he says just because an individual is in handcuffs, doesn't mean the taser shouldn't be utilized.

"You are using the taser to gain and maintain control," says Officer Peters. "If they still pose a threat to themselves and others, the use of the taser could still be appropriate."

The important point is that officers are being trained not to use the taser where the use of a firearm would be inappropriate; thus reducing the number of firearm deaths; but rather "...to gain and maintain control," (my emphasis). To put it crudely torture is also a way of gaining and maintaining control.

Secondly, the point has been raised that tasers have not been identified as the cause of death (in the US). This is true, as far as it goes, and this is not very far; tasers have been implicated in deaths in police custody especially where alcohol and cocaine have been used possibly because the metabolite of coca and ethanol is cardiotoxic ( see abstract here ). In addition Taser Corp. has spent a lot of money having tasers removed from even being considered as possible a cause of death.

[Vinca]

20. As a former cop, let me say Officer Peters is an idiot.

Tasers sometimes become deadly force and are now being used to expedite an arrest, punish and just for the hell of it.

[TexasObserver]

21. "Tasers ... are now being used to expedite an arrest, punish and just for the hell of it."

That's the problem.

[Vinca]

23. That's what I said. I wasn't condoning their use.

[TexasObserver]

24. I was agreeing with, by quoting you.

[RedCappedBandit]

27. Tasers = Torture