I was wrong about sleep studies

[hedgehog]

Mods - I apologize if this post doesn't meet the rules.

About 6 weeks ago I posted a question about sleep studies because I'd been scheduled for one and I DO NOT SNORE. I was absolutely convinced that this was the latest medical fad. Well, it turns out, I don't snore but I also don't breathe,at least not on a steady basis while sleeping. I thought I knew about sleep apnea, but I've learned some new stuff since my test. Here's the wildest speculation out there: Ever hear someone claim that there never used to be any ADHD in the old days? Well, it was pretty standard back then to remove every kid's tonsils. Some cases have been reported in which removing tonsils cleared up ADHD symptoms. What if at least somekids with ADHD are really suffering from sleep apnea, and their behavior is a result of chronic sleep deprivation? All of a sudden, the effectiveness of treating them with Ritalin makes a lot of sense. (Whether they would be better off if the Ritalin is replaced with a CPAP machine is for them and their physicians to figure out.)

There's some other stuff floating around out there as well, including the suggestion that some people diagnosed with depression and/or fibromylagia may actually be suffering from sleep apnea or that apnea is aggravating their symptoms.

Please note that I am using words like "some", "may", "speculation".

[Captain Hilts]

1. A friend of mine had surgery for sleep apnea just today. nt

[Brickbat]

2. I can't say my CPAP changed my life, but it made a huge difference in a lot of things.

Are you getting one?

[hedgehog]

12. I think so - but it's going to take a while . The earliest appointment

I could get for a fitting isn't until after Christmas. "Well, you stop breathing a lot and this can cause heart attack and stroke, see you in two months...."

.:wtf:


Here's the item that will make everyone's head explode: two good doctors that I've known and worked with for years prescribed a medication for my symptoms. I went for the sleep study when the insurance company refused to pay for the prescription, and I was sent on to a specialist to get proof that I needed the medication. (Of course, the insurance company did balk at paying for the sleep study at first, but that's another discussion.)

I don't want to break the rule against getting medical advice on DU. I just thought that it was an interesting experience. I thought the specialist was blowing me off by sending me out for a sleep study and that sleep studies were the latest medical cash cow. I was wrong. I claim sleep deprivation as a cause for my muddled thinking.:hide:

[MrMickeysMom]

3. Lots of this and other stuff are misdiagnosed, or simply not picked up...

It's good that you have had some answers. We know lots about OSA and central sleep apnea, being respiratory therapists in our family.

The truth is, even things like asthma have been treated initially on what was believed to be cause and effect. In the past 20 years we've learned so much and therefore, don't "over treat" as it was before.

Still, people need to read, read, read and the internet can be helpful after you are properly diagnosed. It's not alway a "treat thyself" thing, you know.

MMM :hi:

[hedgehog]

22. I'm really looking forward to getting treatment - a lot of problems

that I have are falling into a pattern in light of this information. I suspect a lot of other people are in the same situation.

[MrMickeysMom]

35. I suspect you're right, too.

Rhetorical question... "Is interruption of sleep leading to, or a result of other medical problems?" (REM sleep, where memory is rebuilt, and restorative sub-routines perhaps maintain a stronger immune system)

One thing is more certain... chronically low levels of oxygen from problems of the airway or brain, coupled with swings in the chest pressures at night are linked some congestive heart failures and increased urinary output. Many studies continue as to what therapy (CPAP, or some variation thereof) is helpful.

If you're ever asked to take part in a study and you fit the study group, you'll be part of the solution, and you may get something like a free mask in return for your participation.

Be well!

[Speck Tater]

4. Those are interesting questions, and well worth asking.

I don't have a clue what the answers might be, but I'd be very interested in hearing what you find out, if anything.

[cbdo2007]

5. This is interesting. I have sleep apnea as well and definitely feel like I have "adhd" symptoms.

I have a Cpap but have never been able to get use to using it so I just drag most days unless I have a long time to try to get good sleep.

Maybe I'll try the Cpap again tonight and see how it goes.

[Chemisse]

10. I love my "sleep machine" (CPAP sounds so clinical)

What a huge difference it has made for me. I just can't go without it. I even bought a battery pack to hook up to it for when the power goes out or when I take a flight.

[hedgehog]

14. Check back with your doctor. There seems to be a general agreement

that a lot of people stop using the CPAP because it was poorly adjusted/poorly fitted. Apparently, the early machines did not add any humidity to the air and this caused problems as well.

[cbdo2007]

25. Thanks for the tip. It was probably....8 years ago so I'm sure they've improved

the masks and stuff since then.

I'll look into it. I like good sleep :)

[laughingliberal]

6. I think most people would be shocked to know how much of a hazard

sleep apnea is. And not just to the patient. Drivers asleep at the wheel are many times more dangerous than drunk drivers. Sleep deprivation is known to be a factor in the people who made the critical decisions on the Challenger, Chernobyl, and the Exxon Valdez. It is a huge problem. Glad to hear you went through with the test and wish you success with treatment.

[CoffeeCat]

7. I love you for bringing up this important topic!!

I was just diagnosed with sleep apnea in August. I am interested in how your sleep study went. Do tell, if you want to share!

Prior to doing my sleep study, I thought I was dying. Seriously. I didn't know what was wrong with me. I woke up every morning
feeling like I spent the night getting the crapola beaten out of me. I couldn't function until around noon--after a few cups of
coffee. And by "function" I mean do a few things here and there. I had no energy, and I pretty much sat around the house all day--doing nothing.

My doctor gave me every test under the sun. Nothing. The last straw for me was when I was driving on a street I've been on--and suddenly, I didn't
know where I was or what I was doing in the car. I had to reorient myself, and concentrate--just to understand where I was. Nothing looked familiar.

I went home and looked up "early onset Alzheimer's" and ended up finding a link for sleep apnea. BINGO! I had every symptom in spades. I switched
doctors, and he agreed that is what I had and off I went to the sleep study.

Turns out, I stopped breathing 52 times a minute--sometimes for as long as 15 seconds. The sleep-study doctor told me that after sleeping for 7 hours,
I got the equivalent of 36 minutes of sleep! Scary. Turns out, when you stop breathing--your brain kicks into "survival" mode--because your brain
thinks you are dying. So, fight-or-flight kicks in, and this boots you out of your REM sleep...over and over and over, all through the night.

The latest research that I've read is frightening as hell. These breathing cessations are similar to having mini-strokes. The consequences of
sleep apnea are devastating. I can tell you that. I would crawl toward carbohydrates and sugar constantly. My brain was desperately seeking
something--anything--to wake me up and to help me function. I gained so much weight.

I've been on the CPAP since August. I feel 50 percent better. My doctor told me it takes time. Because I was so sleep-deprived, and because I
went undiagnosed for TWO SOLID YEARS, it could take up to a year to catch up on my sleep.

I've seen amazing improvement though. I have more energy throughout the day. My sleep patterns are getting more normal. Before the CPAP, I would
stay up until 2 or 3 a.m. Now, I'm going to be before 11:00. I seriously wonder if my brain had grown accustomed to sleep being a knock-down, drag-out
trip into hell--and that's why I stayed up so late. My body knew and didn't want to endure the trauma.

I encourage ANYONE who snores to get your butt into a sleep center. Also, if you have gained weight and you are snoring--for the love of Pete, please
know that you are flirting with total disaster. The snoring will affect your sleep and your eating habits and you will gain more weight, and you
will enter a horrendous, vicious cycle. Get it fixed EARLY before you do great damage to yourself.

Ok, I've written a novel, but this topic is so important! I learned a great deal about sleep apnea from other DUers and their stories. We can all
learn from each other.

Take care hedgehog, and let me know more about how you are doing and your sleep study. Are you going on CPAP?

[Toucano]

18. Thanks for sharing your experience. n/t

[loudsue]

30. Wow. You just told my story verbatim.

That is all of what I was going through until I got my breathing machine. I thought I had fibromyalgia (sp?) or something, but I definitely thought I was dying. In fact, I was getting all my things in order....slowly, because I had no energy.

The person that evaluated my sleep study told me I was one of the worst, if not THE worst case he had ever seen, and he had been doing that since the 1980's. He said I probably had a blood oxygen level of about 79 on a good day .... and it should be around 90.

I've had my breathing machine since late September, so I'm still catching up, and many joints still ache, but NOTHING like it was before.

This is something people should know about. I knew very little about it until I had an "episode" that landed me at the Ear, Nose, Throat doctor. Lucky for me I did.

[elleng]

8. Did they also remove adenoids with tonsils?

Don't know if this may be relevant; just thought I'd add.

Did have a friend who died at his computer some years ago, apparently apnea-related.

[hedgehog]

15. My brother had the deluxe combo as a young kid.

I didn't mention adenoids because I couldn't figure out how to spell the word.

[Canuckistanian]

9. I had my tonsils out AND I have sleep apnea

I now have a CPAP and I can't imagine being without it. I did snore, however.

Mind you, it's not the snoring that's the problem. It's when you STOP snoring.

[hedgehog]

13. Apparently, the windpipe can relax and collapse in some cases,

so taking out the tonsils may not be effective in some cases. I had no idea the windpipe wasn't rigid. My guess is that's why some people have apnea without the snoring.

[Canuckistanian]

16. I didn't know that

I always thought it was the soft palate, although the epiglottis can also be the cause.

[REP]

24. Brain can also 'forget' to breathe

I have mixed apnea, which is central apnea - the brain sometimes just 'forgets' to breathe (it's a little more complicated than that, but that works as an explanation) and obstructive apnea - concha bollosa and small, collapsing airways. CPAP makes a tremendous difference, but I still stop breathing while asleep - but the sleep deprivation is nothing compared to the living hell of untreated severe sleep apnea.

[gkhouston]

11. I remember your post. Glad you got a diagnosis. I hope you'll be able to get a CPAP.

I've known some folks who swear by them after they get over the first few nights of swearing at them. ;-)

[cutlassmama]

21. I swear by mine! nt

[Lochloosa]

34. I cuss mine every night....then I put it on. It has changed my life.

[Toucano]

17. Chronic sleep deprivation can cause a host of ills.

The effect on the brain could potentially lead to concentration issues.

But hyperactivity? Seems counter intuitive, but you never know.

[hedgehog]

19. When you consider that being sleep deprived makes it hard to concentrate,

then it makes a little sense. I know when I'm tired, I can do certain activities but I can't really talk. I'm wondering if the stimulant is actually toning the muscles just enough to prevent the apnea. Sleep apnea tends to run in families, and my Dad always has a cup of strong black coffee just before going to bed. Kind of makes me go "Hmmmmmm"

[Lyric]

20. Kids are weird.

Did you know that antihistamines like Benadryl, well-known for causing drowsiness, can actually make children hyper instead? Kids' bodies sometimes work differently--we don't know why yet. But things that lead to drowsiness in adults can lead to the opposite in kids. The OP certainly presents an interesting theory, at least.

[Hekate]

23. My CPAP is a godsend. In the space of an hour and a half I stopped breathing almost 200 times...

I was scaring my husband, but there was no way to tell how bad it was without a sleep test. I still have fibromyalgia and fatigue--but not as bad. I still feel ADD--but not as bad.

Thank you for reporting back on how you changed your mind -- and thanks for taking care of yourself!

Hekate

[Gregorian]

26. I started CPAP a year ago. But I've been really sick with a headache for the last two days.

I know this isn't the place for that kind of advice, but I'm now wondering what other avenues I might pursue. Is it just migraine? Just. I'm in agony. This is really a health care question, as I've been to three hospitals already. Pathetic. We should all be getting health examinations for our military taxes. I feel lost. I thought my CPAP was helping, and perhaps it is. I thought everything was finally improving. But your post comes just two days after the shock that something isn't right still.

I'm glad you are paying attention to yourself, and that you may be getting help. If there's anything I can do to advise you on CPAP, just ask. I've found it to be really nonintrusive. I also never went in for sleep studies. I just titrated myself with a bipap. I don't think that's why I'm feeling lousy. Uh, I can't stay up any longer. I've worked my ass off on the foundation for my new house, all while ill, and maybe tomorrow will be better. It's really sad that we don't have health care, but we have B1 bombers. Because without health my new house won't mean a thing.

[REP]

32. Migraines can last 72 hours; lot of things trigger them in different people

If you've been using a CPAP for two years, though, I'd guess it isn't the trigger. I have bad migraines and take anti-seizure meds to prevent them; the frequency/duration was the same when my apnea was untreated and since getting the CPAP. Lack of sleep can definitely be a trigger for some people, but let's hope this is a rare thing for you!

[Muttocracy]

27. I know part of my problem is not enough sleep, but also bad quality

I've been fighting off a cold that just won't go away and I know part of it is breathing.

I've been sleeping propped up on every pillow I own and that helps. I think Thomas Jefferson recommded sleeping propped up!

[cynatnite]

28. I hate my husband's CPAP machine, but I won't allow him to go a night without it...

It has truly saved his life.

I don't know about the relationship between ADHD and sleep apnea, though. I will research it. Thanks for the heads up.

[Wakingupnow]

29. a dentist's perspective on apnea

i'm pleased to see a thread in which this issue is getting attn. but i have to say: "obstructive sleep apnea is NOT caused by a CPAP deficiency! carrying extra weight causes the airway to be smaller. exposure to the numerous airborne toxins (ever-increasing) can cause the tonsils--first line of defense--to become inflamed and swollen, further limiting airway.

the first thing done in cpr rescue breathing is to lift the jaw to open the airway. as a dentist, i fit patients with a mouthpiece that, when worn during the night, advances the jaw. the tongue, being attached to the front portion of the lower jaw, is brought forward when the jaw is held forward. the airway is increased and oxygen levels are increased, deeper levels of restorative sleep are achieved, and people enjoy improvements similar to results from CPAP. medical insurance often covers cpaps but doesn't cover dental appliances. however, being dependent on a breathing machine has some serious drawbacks like what happens during power outages, etc.? some insurance plans are providing partial reimbursement especially if an overnight sleep; study confirms apnea.

check out the internet for information on dental sleep appliances if interested.

[REP]

31. Dental appliances are ineffective for Central or Mixed apnea

There are myriad upper airway problems that cannot be helped with a dental appliance - and weight has nothing do with concha bullosas and other obstructions or central apnea. Reputable dentists will not try to sell their patients with sleep apnea a useless and costly oral device.

[Missy Vixen]

33. I have sleep apnea. The CPAP changed my life.

If you are insured, have symptoms (waking up tired, snoring, brain fog/short term memory problems, etcetera,) and live near a sleep specialist, I can't recommend having a sleep study highly enough.

Prior to starting on the CPAP, I was having an episode once a minute. The nurse that fit my mask told me I was getting twenty minutes of sleep a night. I have no idea how many years this was going on.

I had my tonsils out at six, but there were complications. I've often wondered if this was a contributor, too.