Paul Mero: Sexual orientation is an illusion.

[ccharles000]

LDS Apostle Elder Jeffrey R. Holland: Salt Lake City gay-rights measures could work statewide.

Utah's Sutherland Institute responds:

As a public relations opportunity, the LDS Church's statement before the Salt Lake City Council may assuage the minds and soften the hearts of advocates of "gay rights" in Utah. As a policy statement, it is problematic. The approved ordinances before the Salt Lake City Council are unsound in principle, clarity, and effect.

We, once again, call on the Utah State Legislature to overturn these local ordinances on the basis of sound public policy.

Sutherland's president, Paul Mero: The Gloves Must Come Off

"Sexual orientation is an illusion. Your idea of rights is an illusion. Your equality is illusory."

Excerpt from Paul Mero's opening remarks at the Common Ground debate with Equality Utah:

The gloves must come off. The fact remains that we don't just disagree with you over the Common Ground Initiative, we disagree with you over nearly every motivating assumption that underlies the initiative.

We're dealing here with two separate realities: one truth, one illusion. The intellectual, legal and moral chasm between the two sides is so great that true common ground is nearly impossible to achieve. And so, for my part anyway, I'm here to argue that the Equality Utah version of reality is an illusion.

The CGI bills constantly refer to sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is an illusion. It only exists in the minds of activists, and their academics, who need to explain away why people do what they do even when they don't want to do it.

There are no replicable scientific or medical studies about that issue of sexual orientation that exist. Never mind that the only way it can be identified is through sexual behavior. There's no reasonable argument to be made that subjective feelings or attractions toward another human being means anything deeper than what it actually is.

The truth is that we are born male and female with moral agency. Because it's behavior, our sexuality is always a choice, and any other sexual construct is an illusion.

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/14060/video-%C3%BCbermormon-sutherland-institute-in-open-revolt-against-lds-leadership

[anonymous171]

1. Wow that's deep.

Is marijuana legal is Utah?

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Where's Jack Handy when you need him?

[Berry Cool]

10. Heh heh heh, you said "jack" "hand-y."

But seriously...it's guys like these, who claim it's easy for a gay person to "become straight" merely by stifling the desire to have sex with others of the same sex, and having it only with those of the opposite sex, who I think are the biggest closet cases. Because I can only assume that they themselves are constantly experiencing attraction to the same sex, which they believe they must fight with all their might in order to correctly follow their religion. Therefore, they assume that anyone else who can't or doesn't want to fight those feelings is just plain amoral and lazy.

It's as if this guy is saying "After all, if I could, I would screw with every man I met...BUT I DON'T!!!! You should ALL strive to be like ME!!!!"

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Most of the DSM is equally illusory.

[Warpy]

4. Somebody needs to ask him at what age he chose to be straight

and what, besides the behavior of people and things, constitutes scientific data.

The guy is an idiot using psychobabble to cover up his deep seated bigotry.

[Berry Cool]

11. He probably "chose to be straight," all right.

The second he discovered his attraction to men was incompatible with his religion, he "chose to be straight." And he doesn't see any reason why all other men cannot do the same. :rofl:

[Warpy]

15. You're probably right about that

and every gay rights parade ignites a terrible longing as he watches all that joyous male flesh parading in front of his blue nose and pursed lips.

Never mind the wife and kids who always wonder what is wrong with themselves. He doesn't give a shit about them. They're his beard.

[imdjh]

5. Translation: I'm not fucked up. I wanted a family and I have one. Yes, I get turned on by...

... shirtless surfers and auto mechanics.

I love these guys. In a way, they are saying "All men are homosexual, but we control it."

[closeupready]

9. So if I watch gay porn, is my erection illusory? And if I get flaccid watching naked women, that too

is illusory? And if that woman is my wife and we are on our honeymoon, can I just tell her, 'honey, my failure to get excited over your naked body is all in your mind. Get over it.' ??

[redqueen]

12. "All men are homosexual, but we control it."

Hm... I never thought of it that way.

[alfredo]

27. That explains my love for Streisand, thin "athletic" women, and Quiche.

[Raster]

29. Take care around trak-lights and white wine.

[alfredo]

30. So this Chardonnay wasn't a good idea?

[Marr]

17. How about this part?:

"(Sexual orientation) only exists in the minds of activists... who need to explain away why people do what they do, even when they don't want to do it."

Sounds like another Ted Haggard to me.

[Toasterlad]

6. He's Right About One Thing.

True common ground is impossible to achieve.

These bigoted douchebags must be crushed like the maggots they are.

[LeftHander]

7. On that arguement...lets search and replace...

The gloves must come off. The fact remains that we don't just disagree with you over the Common Ground Initiative, we disagree with you over nearly every motivating assumption that underlies the initiative.

We're dealing here with two separate realities: one truth, one illusion. The intellectual, legal and moral chasm between the two sides is so great that true common ground is nearly impossible to achieve. And so, for my part anyway, I'm here to argue that the Equality Utah version of reality is an illusion.

The CGI bills constantly refer to faith. Faith is an illusion. It only exists in the minds of activists, and their academics, who need to explain away why people do what they do even when they don't want to do it.

There are no replicable scientific or medical studies about that issue of faith that exist. Never mind that the only way it can be identified is through religious behavior. There's no reasonable argument to be made that subjective feelings or attractions toward a supreme being means anything deeper than what it actually is.

The truth is that we are born with original sin. Because it's behavior, our faith is always a choice, and any other faith construct is an illusion.

[Raster]

25. !!!

[surrealAmerican]

8. I agree with this part:

"We're dealing here with two separate realities: one truth, one illusion."

It's just that he doesn't understand which reality is which.

[marmar]

13. So he chose his sexual desires? They don't come to him naturally?

These asshats never cease to astound....

[Odin2005]

14. Translation: "It's all in your head, you hell-bound Liberal scum!"

This moron probably thinks my Asperger's Syndrome and OCD are moral faults, too. :puke:

Fuck him and his primitive, simplistic belief system. Hey Dumbass, there is no such thing as "Free Will".

[marshall]

16. Sexuality is a continuum--not a binary

The most compelling argument in my opinion is Jung's belief in the basic bisexual nature of mankind. And many activists today are coming to the conclusion that sexuality is not an either/or binary, but that it is a continuum along which men and women travel throughout their lives.

[Kitty Herder]

18. I think sexuality is a continuum, but there are a lot of people on the ends of the continuum

who are either 100% straight or 100% gay. And they didn't choose it and can't really change it. I think most of us are pretty much locked into our position on that continuum.

[marshall]

19. I think most people fall in the middle

Maybe not the exact middle, but I don't think anyone (or at least very very few) are one hundred percent anything. And I think many people change over the course of their lifetime, due to a number of factors.

[Kitty Herder]

20. I don't know very many people who fall anywhere near the middle.

And most people don't change their orientation in any way over the course of their lifetime. Honestly, I sometimes wish I could stop being straight.(Men are a pain in the ass in relationships. So damned entitled.) I'm open to the idea of some woman sweeping me off my feet, which is why I don't see myself as 100% straight, but I don't think that possibility is very likely. It hasn't happened yet in my 33 years, while I've fallen for many a man in that same timespan.

[marshall]

23. I think the majority are in the the 75 to 100 percent

I agree that few probably lie in the 50 percent range.

And it's a number of factors that affect where one is on the spectrum (of both identity and expression) and how much one does or does not change--the argument of which would be which are primary and which are secondary.

[Raster]

24. Human sexuality is as richly varied as are humans. To confine someone

to heterosexual or homosexual is so two dimensional and confining. A person's sexuality, like their life in general, is a journey, not a parking slot.

[Kitty Herder]

28. I'm not trying confine anyone.

You'll notice that I don't confine myself. I'm open to possibilities, even if they seem unlikely at this time.

But I'm not willing to contradict the lived experiences and self-definitions of others. If someone tells me they are 100% gay or 100% straight, have no attraction to the opposite or same sex, and they don't feel they can change, who am I to tell them otherwise?

[Libertas1776]

21. Wow, so gays are the one with the illusionary problem

not the moron who believes the angel Gabriel yacked it up with some hick from Illinois and showed him where he could find some golden plates yada yada yada Adam and Eve were from the South yada yada yada marry your cousins, bigamy, and the rest, here on Gilligan's Isle. Pfft, LDS, more like a bunch of religious bigots on LSD.

[NMMNG]

22. Did his magical peep stones tell him all that?

:eyes:

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

26. So Being Queer is David Copperfield's Fault?

I remember when he made the Statue of Liberty disappear. Damn, that dude can do anything!