Virginia DUers, what are' the effects of illegal immigration on Virginia's Eastern Shore' this guy

[sinkingfeeling]

is talking about?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/12/AR2009111210698.html

In his Nov. 5 op-ed, "Lessons from Virginia for the GOP," former Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie said that Republicans had relied on "anti-immigration rhetoric" in past gubernatorial campaigns and that governor-elect Robert F. McDonnell did not.

Immigration control isn't rhetoric, Mr. Gillespie. It's the law as it should be. And as a frequent visitor who has seen the effects of illegal immigration on Virginia's Eastern Shore, I believe enforcement is key to protecting the state's quality of life.

Virginians should expect their new governor to take a no-nonsense approach to the problem.

Peter Hrycenko, Allentown, Pa.

[enid602]

1. culture

I think he's talking about the effect of Latin immigration on Virginia's traditional culture. Typical.

[sinkingfeeling]

2. So, he's saying someone of a different culture reduces his quality of life?

[enid602]

4. Yes

I would say so.

[Iggo]

7. Latin immigration, eh?

Fucking Romans!

[imdjh]

3. Some of it is simple and some of it is complex.

The simple is that Delmarva has had a building boom going on since the 1970's when national flood insurance made it possible to build dense waterfront development and get mortgages for second homes. That boom swept inland, as many Northerners tried to strike a retirement balance by moving away from the northeastern cities, to relatively cheap or elegant retirement in a somewhat milder climate with proximity to beaches and within driving distance of their children. Lots of construction all over the Eastern Shore, including the Lower Shore (Virginia) and it's miles and miles of backwaters.

Migrant workers have come to the Shore (shorthand for Delmarva) since the mid 1900's when Greek (sometimes called "The Greek") labor brokers would bring in pickers and some laborers from the islands. This wasn't all that shocking, basically you went from black people picking produce to black people picking produce. It was the responsibility of the Greek to make sure all these people were returned to Haiti at the end of the season. Then in the 1980's the Mexicans and some more southern immigrants came doing migrant labor. But after a while some of these folks drifted into construction labor and didn't go home at the end of the season. In the 1990's the construction business had pretty much fully integrated illegal immigrant labor across skill categeories, though still heavily in the scut work, but even in supervision since you need a spanish speaking crew chief for spanish crew. The illegal immigrant labor worked cheap, and also required housing, and eventually social services.

So that's the simple.

The complex comes from business again, and several layers of government. The seafood industry never needed migrant labor. American white males did the boats, and American black people (largely female) worked in processing. Most of this was under the table, out of reach of OSHA and labor laws. People made more than minimum wage, but the government didn't like the way they were paid, and most importantly that they weren't reporting income. The government came in, and costs went up. Many of the seafood workers had to stop because it's seasonal work and they would lose their welfare benefits if they had reported income. Some of these people only worked a couple of hours a day, and couldn't have done it 8 hours a day. Some had kids with medical care to think about, and housing issues and all sorts of things.

So the wholesale prices of seafood went up as well. Now you have a sort of black market for seafood, because people are picking crabs or shucking oysters at their houses and taking it to resorts to sell. The seafood industry screamed that they were being killed and got PERMISSION to bring in LEGAL immigrant labor, which of course is casually indistinguishable from illegal immigrant labor so you can imagine what happened there.

But when the price of seafood went up, it opened the door for imported seafood. Well, the labor crack down combines with improved transportation ideas, now we have crab from Thailand in the grocery store being packaged to look like Chesapeake Bay crab meat.

So the illegal labor, combined with government crackdowns on American labor, affected the construction and seafood business and other busiensses as well as the illegal immigrants became premanent and started mowing lawns, being handyman guys, tilers, and other trades and unskilled laborers. You have the peripheral social issues of housing, hospital, schools, and courts. And there is other fallout economically and socially. Which is not to say that life would be paradise had there been no influx of illegal labor, but it also doesn't mean that illegal labor doesn't have a downside.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. So, only certain forms of illegal labor is acceptable (seafood processed under the table)?

[imdjh]

10. If I want to parse childish logic, I'll watch Glenn Beck.

Oh, and thanks for the feeling that I wasted my time trying to give you a serious answer to a serious question. I wont' repeat the error.

[sinkingfeeling]

18. I'm sorry you took that personally. I meant that to the letter writer. I apologize

that I wasn't clear. Thank you for your explanation of the situation.

[enough]

15. Imdjh, this is fascinating. Thank you for the detailed analysis.

We have been spending quite a lot of time with relatives in Accomack county for the past few years (on both the bay and ocean sides). It seems to be a very unusual combination of populations, and I have been wondering how it got to be that way.

Can you talk about the role of agricultural labor in all of this? It appears that most of the agricultural workers are hispanic, while so many of the local residents are black. The folks working and eating at our favorite breakfast place are about half black and half white, no hispanic people at all.

It really is an interesting area, and I appreciate your taking the time to talk about it.

[imdjh]

17. I haven't been there in over a year. My cousin tells me that some of the "Mexicans" have left.

I put Mexicans in quotes, because while I love him to death my cousin probably would not care whether they were actually Mexicans or simply Spanish speaking immigrants. I can't pick on him too much though, he speaks Spanish well enough to converse and I don't. He's a builder in Princess Anne.

In any event, he says that there has been an exodus of "Mexicans" who have left for points north due to the slow down in construction.

I don't know about the ag dynamics in Accomack.

A fun fact to know and tell: The black surname "Driggs" in that area is believed to be derived from Rodriguez and they are believed to be a tri-racial subgroup of Portuguese, Black, and Indian dating to early colonial times.

[demobabe]

5. Since when does ANYBODY care about the Delmarva peninsula?

I just thought everybody ignored this area. I guess if it helps someone's political motives...

[imdjh]

9. So what crappy place are you from?

[KamaAina]

12. I don't think the poster was bashing Delmarva

so much as pointing out that no one, of either party, gives a fig about it unless they can demagogue it like this. A Md. state delegate once got in extremely hot water for referring to the Eastern Shore as a "shithouse" on the floor!

Kind of like how Ahh-nuld has suddenly discovered the Central Valley now that he can use to help push his multi-billion-dollar water grab. :eyes:

edit: meanwhile, a prominent Del. DUer notes that Delawareans who live "above the canal" refer to their portion of the peninsula as "Slower Delaware".

[imdjh]

16. Part of forgetting about it, is forgetting about its challenges.

My mom and I were talking about this the other night. The Eastern Shore is becoming something of a welfare state. They are down to six major industries: farming, tourism, retirement, healthcare, seafood, prison. I'm not sure how those rank.

IN terms of the direct consumption of tax dollars, the hospitals, colleges, schools, and prisons would have to be tops. But farming has its own fingers in the cookie jar. At least during the construction and real estate boom, there was outside money coming in, even if it was making life more expensive for the locals.

The thing that has always killed me about places like the Eastern Shore is how they hyped stuff like the construction of new shopping centers. For years, I would read about stuff like that there and here in Florida and think, "Great, more places to spend money but no place to make anything." Boat building and light manufacturing (clothing, baskets, paper goods, lumber finishing, mechanical parts) used to be on the back roads of these places. No more.

[demobabe]

13. Currently living in the Delmarva Peninsula

And my dad is in a hospice here, dying, as we speak.

No complaints about Delmarva. It's beautiful, and is probably one of America's best kept secrets.

But anybody will tell you the Eastern Shore is a much different place than across the bay, and is often forgotten by the people in the government on the other side of the bridge.

[imdjh]

14. No disagreement there, and sorry about your dad.

:hug:

[Blue_Tires]

19. +1 on it being a best-kept secret...

i always love driving through it...if i were you, i'd make sure the eastern shore border was guarded by guns day and night to ward off commercial developers...you know they are coming :mad:

[Iggo]

6. delete...wrong spot.

[imdjh]

11. That's what the bishop said.

[JonQ]

20. The general effects of illegals moving to an area

are depressed wages and greater strain on social programs.

I can't speak for virginia in particular but that is typically the problem.

[Blue_Tires]

21. ironically, Va. Beach this decade has

had a HUGE influx of young eastern europeans (Czechs, Poles, Russian, etc) and a good number of them i'm willing to bet have overstayed their visas...Some employment company brings them in by the boatload to work the hotels and resorts during tourist season -- Naturally, the hotels claim the local teens don't want to apply for jobs and do the work, so they have to outsource (how many teens do you know willing to scrub hotel toilets for $6.50/hr?)...

A couple of years ago, they also broke up a big fraud marraige ring comprised of local sailors and Russian women...