There are few great men or women in Washington today

[AllentownJake]

Mostly cowards, criminals, or fascist. Shouldn't be a surprise.

When the Iraq war resolution was passed in 2002, 39% of the Democratic Party in the House voted for it. In the United States Senate 58% of the Democrats voted for it. Many of these cowards or neo-cons in the democratic party are still with us. Despite evidence showing that there were no WMDs and objection from the internation community, these "representatives" bought the lie, either knowingly or by being duped.

The same can be said about other Bush era legislation (Tax cuts, Patriot Act, FISA, Medicare Part D, Bankruptcy Reform, etc.) All passed with democratic support.

When TARP was passed most Democrats voted for a 3 page bill with no pre-conditions or oversight. Wall Street walked into the capital with the equivalent of a financial suicide bombers vest and the Democrats met their demands. Our President and his Chief of Staff were the two that lobbied the hardest for the bill when they were in their prospective former legislative roles.

The Stimulus bill was loaded with pork. While countries like China are investing in doing things for the 21st century, our representatives voted on a backwards looking bill. There are some good things in there, but overall the stimulus bill is loaded with shit that will provide a temporary relief. Think taking a Tylenol when you need surgery to remove a tumor.

Relief for Homeowners was gutted by the likes of Evan Bayh, citing moral hazard. Of course he never talks about the conflict of interest of having his income subsidized by being married to woman taking $800,000 a year for being on various corporate boards.

Health Care reform, became insurance reform in the House and could not be passed without appeasing the people who represent followers of an angry desert sky God that demands that women take a secondary place in American society.

Have there been good things passed? Sure. There were a few gems in the stimulus bill in a pile of dung. The credit card reform bill doesn't go far enough, but it goes somewhere. A hate crimes bill as passed for our gay brothers and sisters.

However, overall in a time of the greatest economic crisis in 60 years and an opportunity to address the flaws in a failed system, our congress has been largely a dissapointment at best criminally negligent at worst.

There are lights in the city, Alan Grayson, Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinuch, Al Franken, Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, Marcy Kaptur and others. Every so often the President even shows signs of the candidate that many fell in love with in 08. Unfortunatley their light is blocked many times by the men and women without souls in our own party and some of the devils in the Cabinet.

[geek tragedy]

1. Good post, with one quibble

"The Stimulus bill was loaded with pork. While countries like China are investing in doing things for the 21st century, our representatives voted on a backwards looking bill. There are some good things in there, but overall the stimulus bill is loaded with shit that will provide a temporary relief. Think taking a Tylenol when you need surgery to remove a tumor. "

The main purpose of a stimulus isn't to address long-term structural issues--it's to provide a temporary boost. And 'pork' is generally a Republican term for government spending on the greater good.

[AllentownJake]

2. I'll disagree

We are filling pot holes and silly projects when we should be building infrastucture for the 21st century. More green energy and more investment in public transportation (high speed rail).

Pork isn't a GOP term. There is no reason to be spending some of that money on some of the projects they are spending it.

Look at the New Deal programs, there was some dumb shit, but much of that infrastructure projects were foward looking and we are still using a lot of it.

To be totally fair to the President, his orginal plan was better, than the Congress got their hands on it.

[FLAprogressive]

3. +1

[geek tragedy]

5. Those are absolutely high priority items. But that's not what a stimulus

is for. Stimulus's are by definition short term boosts for the economy.

Things like light rail are major investments, but it takes time to plan them and start spending money on them. Obama can't just say "okay, let's drop a lightrail system on Seattle. make it work.'

There is a lot of green energy stuff in the stimulus.

http://www.clf.org/press/pressreleases/pressreleasearchive/2009/2009-02-13.html?gclid=CLq7i7P2h54CFR9N5QodIWqAqA

[AllentownJake]

7. Historically

the bill will be looked at as a wasted opportunity and a waste of a large degree of money...what is worse is that the money spent comes with an interest tag.

There are better ways to stimulate the economy...filling pot holes, cash for clunkers, and the homeowner credit are going to look incredibly stupid in 5 years.

[geek tragedy]

10. That's exactly what McCain has been saying.

It's rightwing economics to say that a stimulus plan that pumps money into improving our decaying infrastructure and upgrading our energy delivery systems is 'pork.'

[AllentownJake]

11. A broken clock is right twice a day

Just because an opponent says something doesn't mean you dismiss it. You have to evaluate the statement.

McCain is right about Campaign Finance Reform, and what the President did in 2008 is going to lead to an awful climate in 2012. The Rubicon has been crossed and the next Presidential race is going to be totally out of control with both candidates raising and spending a billion dollars.

Blind party loyalty is a very foolish thing...and generally leads to the other party being in charge.

[geek tragedy]

12. Rightwing economics is never right.

And that's what you're espousing here.

You describe fixing our infrastructure as 'pork.' That's what Grover Norquist would say.

You say a stimulus shouldn't be focused on temporary growth. That shows you don't know what a stimulus actually is supposed to be.


you are allowing your disillusionment with Obama to taint your economic thinking.

Blind opposition to the President is no better than blind following.

[AllentownJake]

13. I didn't know FDR became Right Wing

Guess I missed that change over.

The stimulus bill resembles more what Hoover tried than it resembles what FDR implemented.

[geek tragedy]

14. Sorry, you're just being ignorant on this. Here are the FACTS:

$147 Billion on health care (mostly medicaid and subsidized COBRA payments with $19 Billion to upgrade medical information technology/infrastructure)

$91 Billion on education

$82 Billion on aid to the unemployed, the elderly, and the poor

$80 Billion in infrastructure development

$61 Billion in upgrading our energy delivery systems to make them more efficient and greener

$15 Billion on national parks and other government agencies

$9 Billion on scientific research

$13 Billion in aid to state and local governments and law enforcement agencies

To label all of that as 'pork' is nothing but rightwing talking point ignorance.

[AllentownJake]

15. First you are missing 289 billion dollars

Second the devil is in the details.

You can say you spent $80 billion on infrastructure development, however when you get down to the detail level of the development is where you find the good and the bad.

Same thing for education and everything else you cite there.

As for the 147 billion on Health Care, I think it is a good thing, but I hardly consider it stimulative or an investment. $19 billion is an investment. It isn't pork, but don't call welfare payments economic stimulus.

[geek tragedy]

16. Additional cash payments to low income people is the #1 best way

to stimulate the economy! Because virtually every dollar they get winds up being spent on goods and services.

What are your specific complaints? Do you think every dime under FDR was wisely spent?

[AllentownJake]

17. FDR was more forward looking than this administration

To be fair, FDR had two and a half years of an awful economy in his rear view mirror in 1933 when he took office and the political will to do the things he did.

If President Obama had the votes, the stimulus bill would have been better, I'm not blaming him.

[geek tragedy]

18. In what way?

You still haven't said what provisions of the stimulus bill is 'pork.'

[AllentownJake]

19. There are plenty of articles on this

http://www.usnews.com/money/business-economy/articles/2009/02/19/finding-the-pork-in-the-obama-stimulus-bill.html

[geek tragedy]

22. Thank you for proving my point with that rightwing hit piece.

That article relies on Veronique de Rugy.

They pass her off as a 'senior research fellow' at a university.

http://www.cato.org/people/rugy.html

The Cato Institute is Grover Norquist territory.

So, essentially the corporate media trotted out an anti-tax fanatic as a 'scholar' and pushed her propaganda.

This nutjob wants to privatize Am Trak, NASA, and the POST OFFICE:

http://www.cato.org/research/articles/rugy-040316.html

This should have been a tip-off:

"Now the majority of the $787 billion isn't pork. Indeed, tax relief alone makes up some 34 percent of the bill."

That's right--tax cuts good, spending bad!

Other works by Veronique de Rugy:

"Hooray for Calvin Coolidge"
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3015

"We should eliminate the Department of Education"
http://www.cato.org/research/articles/gryphon-040211.html

[AllentownJake]

24. I'm going to give you a hint in an honest debate

Attack the points the author makes, don't attack the author.

Glenn Beck is nuts, however you have more power when you refute what Glenn Beck has to say, not just calling him a nut.

I disagree with that author on the tax cuts, agree on clean coal, agree on golf carts, agree on the state discretionary spending.

[geek tragedy]

25. The article lead off with her stating "most of the stimulus is pork"

Well, of course it is--if you want to do things like privatize the fire department.

And the article does another classic McCain/Republican tactic, take an isolated small project that represents .0001% of the stimulus, and offer it as 'proof' that it's a pork bill. And in the case of the golf carts, it doesn't even attach a dollar figure. It just notes that they're eligible for a tax credit. The dollar number is likely under $1 million in total tax credits given out for that. And it doesn't demonstrate why those vehicles shouldn't be classified as green vehicles, or why it's a bad idea to encourage green vehicles.

And if you're arguing that infrastructure spending is pork, as the author does, then just understand that you are attacking the stimulus plan for being too liberal and that you are attacking it from the right.

[AllentownJake]

26. Common sense doesn't have a political bias

If you use commmon sense when evaluating things, and looking at their long term impact vs. short term impact a partisan on the right will call you a liberal and a partisan on the left will call you a conservative.

We should be investing heavier in rail, instead we are investing in last centuries automotive culture. I understand why, doesn't mean I agree with it.

Clean Coal is nonsense.

Like I said, the stimulus bill has good things in it. A lot of it in my opinion puts us on no stronger economic footing 5 years from now.

[geek tragedy]

27. Stimulus's arent' the same thing as structural reforms.

By definition, there is only a limited amount you can do with a stimulus in terms of long-term reform. A core definition of stimulus is that the spending is 'temporary'--that's textbook economics.

Now, you can argue that light rail should get more spending. But, that kind of transformational spending is not stimulus spending.

[AllentownJake]

28. Stimulating a cancer filled corpse

Viagra for a dying empire.

[geek tragedy]

30. Well, if you view the US as a cancer-filled corpse, then there's

no sense doing anything but moving.

[AllentownJake]

31. I like Michael Moore's quote

I refuse to live in a country like this, and I'm not leaving.

The rats in our own party must be taken out before the snakes in the other party are dealt with.

[geek tragedy]

32. Well, in the mean time people need jobs, need to make a living.

So, that stimulus was necessary to keep the patient alive.

More needs to be done, but the stimulus was not intended to solve or even address all of our long-term problems--because then it wouldn't be an effective stimulus.

[AllentownJake]

33. You have a fundamental non-understanding of human nature

and as long as you live in that paradox...you will never be a force for reform.

[geek tragedy]

34. Coming from someone who's reading from the rightwing playbook

on economics, I take that as a compliment.

[AllentownJake]

35. I'll give you a small example

The local party in my area is a disorganized shit brigade, they offered no help in 2008 except for preening at events and making demands. Obama pretty much built everything from scratch.

After the election some of the Obama people tried to make some changes to make the party function better. The party people told us to shut up and bragged about how things were succesful and blah blah blah. They drove all the new people away for interfering with their club and you had two clubs form. I call them clubs because neither club really did much for the election, though the Obama people at least knocked on doors the last 2 weeks.

After we got killed in November, they suddenly are open to new ideas.

As long as people think things are going ok, nothing ever gets fixed.

[geek tragedy]

36. Nobody thinks things are okay.

This economy has DEEP structural flaws that need to be fixed.

But, those kinds of problems don't get fixed easily, quickly, simply, or cleanly.

The stimulus was designed to prevent an even worse collapse than what we've seen, while taking a small first step in the direction of more meaningful reforms.

Next comes health care reform. Then energy/global warming. And financial regulatory reform.

There's a lot that has to be done.

[AllentownJake]

37. They won't be fixed

because the people who pay for the campaigns were bailed out first. If you think there will be any meaningful reform this year, next year, or the year after you are delusional.

See the reason why the club leaders are open to change is because they rely on the local politicos to be in office for their self importance...the only reason they are willing to change is that structure has taken a hit.

[geek tragedy]

38. Well, if you're going to give up, then don't try to drag down

those who haven't quit.

[AllentownJake]

39. I haven't quit

That is where you misinterpret what I have done....no, I'm actually bunkering down for a longer battle than the cheerleader class have....you will declare victory when none has been had and will take less and smile at your picture threads.

[geek tragedy]

40. Yes, by complaining and opposing.

Sounds like the Party of No.

[blm]

43. you have a fundamental non-understanding of the public good and why potholes matter...

so why should anyone trust YOUR analysis of anything else?

[AllentownJake]

48. Forgive me for believing this

However, the pot-holes in Allentown, are Allentown's problem...not a national one.

[blm]

53. Bush's budget-cutting on so many needs resulted in local money being diverted.

No town is an island.

[blm]

42. filling potholes is NEVER a waste of money - it employs PEOPLE and saves drivers the expense of

alignments and flats. Plus...potholes can also cause SERIOUS ACCIDENTS when combined with increased speed.

Are you SURE you want to make these incredibly shortsighted comments?

[AllentownJake]

49. Not really a federal issues

You fill a pot-hole it employs one person, you build a train it builds more. It isn't a question of good or bad, it is a question of what is better for the long-term growth of society.

[blm]

52. Who says you have to choose? Fill potholes AND build rail system. Exactly what is happening.

And it's long past time for BOTH.

[AllentownJake]

54. Fully agree

however they made a choice

[mix]

4. The problem is our political class as a whole.

They appear to be unequal to the historical tasks before them...symptomatic of declining empires.

[AllentownJake]

6. It is hard to recognize the flaws in a system that brought you to power

There are people in the system that do, however they are drowned out in their own political party by a minority in the House and Senate that doesn't. Twenty five percent of the democratic representatives are snakes. Due to this you in reality have sabotuers withing your own party. When you have an opposition party filled with lunatics and fascist and a subset of your own party filled with criminals, cowards, and fascist light, it is hard to get things done without compromising with the evil in your own party...Stupak was just the most recent manifestation of it.

[cali]

8. what makes you think it's any different than it's ever been?

[AllentownJake]

9. The big difference in 2009 to 1930

simply comes down to Patriotism. Even the GOP was introduced in protecting American Industry and American production...till around 1980 might not have been caring about labor, but protecting America's future was a priority.

You didn't close a factory, sell the equipment to China, and retire back than.

[Nikki Stone1]

21. kick

:kick:

[Nikki Stone1]

20. K & R

:kick:

[old mark]

23. Rec. There are maybe 1 in 10 in the house who are good, honest Reps.

Not that high in the Senate.

Politicians in the US have tradidionally been self serving scum, and these folks are no different.

I know some here will always defend the pols, but I stand by my opinion.

mark

[closeupready]

46. Completely agree with you.

n/t

[kentuck]

29. Sad...

but true.

[blm]

41. Do you know WHY so many Dems voted for IWR in 2002? Can you name the Dems who voted yes opposed the

DECISION to invade even though they supported IWR because they REALLY voted yes to get in and LOOK for WMDs first and didn't use it only for lipservice?

You don't seem to have a solid grasp of what actually went down.

I applaud that you are trying to elevate progressive lawmakers - I believe in that, too - but, you really seem underinformed and tend to kick some of the best to the curb.

[AllentownJake]

47. I believe I said they bought the lie

either knowingly or by being duped.

Max Cleland is a good man, and a brave man, but he bowed to political pressure on this, and if you ask him, he'll say he regrets that.

[blm]

51. BILL CLINTON went to Senate Dems and urged them to support Bush on IWR based on Iraq info

he had access to when he was president. They trusted CLINTON was telling them the truth.

When weapon inspectors were proving force was not needed, Kerry publically sided with weapon inspectors and opposed Bush using military force. IWR supporters had a special obligation to oppose Bush's DECISION to invade after weapon inspections were proving force was not needed.

[AllentownJake]

55. President Clinton always walked a thin line on Iraq

intially supporting it than going back after the war and trying to revisit history.

I personally like Bill, but judging on some of his decisions (Glass Steagall, Derivatie Trading) he is not someone who should be trusted.

Edwards was hawkish in 04 and dovish in 08. Some guys try to follow popular sentiment.

[blm]

56. Clinton did FAR more - he used his summer04 booktour to vigorously DEFEND Bush's decision to invade

after Kerry spent months attacking that decision. Clinton did that DELIBERATELY. He carefully avoided siding with Kerry's position against Bush on Iraq, even during the Dem Convention. He is NOT the good guy many Dems want to believe.

[bvar22]

44. K&R...

The Democratic Party Honor Roll
These Democrats should be remembered for their principled stand against the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

The Iraq War Resolution


United States Senate

In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq :

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico)
Barbara Boxer (D-California)
Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia)
Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota)
Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey)
Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota)
Dick Durbin (D-Illinois)
Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin)
Bob Graham (D-Florida)
Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii)
Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont)
Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts)
Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont)
Carl Levin (D-Michigan)
Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland)
Patty Murray (D-Washington)
Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island)
Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland)
Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan)
The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota)
Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island)


United States House of Representatives

Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Represenatives:

Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii)
Tom Allen (D-Maine)
Joe Baca (D-California)
Brian Baird (D-Washington DC)
John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin)
Xavier Becerra (D-California)
Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon)
David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office)
Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania)
Corinne Brown (D-Florida)
Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California)
Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts)
Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland)
Julia Carson (D-Indiana)
William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri)
Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office)
James Clyburn (D-South Carolina)
Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office)
John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan)
Jerry Costello (D-Illinois)
William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office)
Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California)
Danny Davis (D-Illinois)
Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon)
Diana DeGette (D-Colorado)
Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts)
Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut)
John Dingell (D-Michigan)
Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas)
Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania)
Anna Eshoo (D-California)
Lane Evans (D-Illinois)
Sam Farr (D-California)
Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania)
Bob Filner (D-California)
Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts)
Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas)
Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida)
Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office)
Maurice Hinchey (D-New York)
Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas)
Rush Holt (D-New Jersey)
Mike Honda (D-California)
Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon)
Inslee
Jackson (Il.)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E.B.
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kildee
Kilpatrick
Kleczka
Kucinich
LaFalce
Langevin
Larsen (WA)
Larson (CT)
Lee
Levin
Lewis (GA)
Lipinski
Lofgren
Maloney (CT)
Matsui
McCarthy (MO)
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Meek (FL)
Meeks (NY)
Menendez
Millender-McDonald
Miller
Mollohan
Moran (Va)
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal
Oberstar
Obey
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Pastor
Payne
Pelosi
Price (NC)
Rahall
Rangel
Reyes
Rivers
Rodriguez
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sabo
Sanchez
Sanders
Sawyer
Schakowsky
Scott
Serrano
Slaughter
Snyder
Solis
Stark
Strickland
Stupak
Thompson (CA)
Thompson (MS)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Udall (CO)
Velazquez
Visclosky
Waters
Watson
Watt
Woolsey
Wu

[closeupready]

45. Many of them are plain and simply crooks - the old-fashioned kind.

And they won't lift a finger if you haven't given them campaign finance donations.

[Romulox]

50. k/r. It was "ARMAGEDDON!!!" last November; it's business as usual this November.

:wtf: