What is with all of the ultimatums lately?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

1. We have the Catholic Church giving Washington D.C. ultimatums over anti-discrimination measures.
2. SENATORS Bayh, Lieberman, Feinstein, Conrad, et. al are giving HOUSE SPEAKER Pelosi an ultimatum- threatening to allow the US to default on its debt unless critical decisions about entitlement spending (i.e. Medicare, Social Security) are delegated to an independent commission.
3. Representative Bart Stupak and several other Blue Dogs held HCR hostage this past weekend to his anti-abortion amendment (even though most of them STILL didn't vote for the bill even after Pelosi caved and allowed a vote) and now 40 other members are threatening to torpedo HCR if the Stupak amendment stays in the HCR legislation (I hesitate to include the members wanting the Stupak amendment removed because I don't want it there either but I don't want to lose HCR either).
4. "Holy Joe" Lieberman is threatening to prevent HCR legislation from coming to a vote in the Senate if anybody DARES to put in a Public Option while Roland Burris is threatening to torpedo HCR if the Public Option is removed.

What is with all of these people/organizations? When did it become appropriate, reasonable, sane, fashionable, etc. for our LEADERS to resort to this kind of blackmail and mafia-like thuggery to get what they want- seemingly with no regard to the bigger picture or what is in the best interests of our country and its citizens? I expect this kind of autocratic behavior among Republicans and their supporters but I can't believe that many of our DEMOCRATIC representatives have apparently adopted/endorsed this behavior and I REALLY hope that President Obama, Pelosi, Reid, or somebody steps up to the plate and puts a stop to it somehow some way! Maybe some of this is just political posturing but this just seems like something new (and bad) for our country's political system. I.......just can't believe what I'm seeing right now with my own eyes. Is this bothering anybody else? This REALLY worries me.

:wtf:

[stray cat]

1. The world is sounding more and more like DU!

[timeforpeace]

17. Perfect.

[dflprincess]

2. I want to see one more ultimatum

and I want it to be one the IRS gives the Catholic Church about its tax exempt status.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

4. +1

How are they walking around issuing ultimatums and maintaining their tax-exempt status. Unfortunately, I don't expect it to happen but it would be refreshing to see the IRS go after them (and the Mormons) if they continue to insist on being an active part of the political sphere.

[dflprincess]

8. Can you imagine what would have happened if John Kennedy had

sat down with the bishops and let them write legislation the way Pelosi did?

Pelosi should be removed as speaker, Stupak should be censured and the insurance bill the House passed should be considered unconstitutional as long as that amendment remains part of it.

[customerserviceguy]

15. Isn't it true

that if a tax-exempt church lobbies with only issues, and not specific candidates, that has been considered Constitutionally protected free speech?

I know that the line gets mighty blurred when a particular church teaches, "This is how we believe on X, and here is a pamphlet telling you what the Democratic candidate says about X, and what the Republican candidate says about X, make up your own mind." It's a little hard to say that the line is crossed when it's issues advocacy, versus candidate advocacy, isn't it?

[dflprincess]

16. The church has been treading far too close to that line for a long time

Bishops announcing that they will refuse communion to any politician that tries to represent all the people of his/her district rather than the Church certainly crosses the line - maybe you'd just consider it blackmail.

Some parish priests have been known to advocate for a candidate or a party (hint: not the Democratic one). If a church passes out a pamphlet telling it's members that Candidate A supports us, Candidate B does not, their intent is clear and they have crossed the line.

If I wanted to live by the rules the church dreams up, I wouldn't have left it. I do not appreciate any church dictating to Congress and that's what they did with the Stupak amendment and it's what they're trying to do with the Gay marriage in D.C. by threatening to shut down the programs they're running for the poor.

[customerserviceguy]

19. I left that church a quarter of a century ago myself

but they always seem to manage to go just up to that line as far as they can, without openly crossing it. As long as there are nominal Catholic judges and politicians, they will continue to be able to do so. And you can ditto that for what the Mormons do in Utah.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. Plus, nobody really calls on them on it

We do here but it would seem that nobody in Congress seems to be quite bold enough to stand up in Congress and speak out about it and I can only imagine the hue and outcry if Obama's IRS were to actually go after them. Interestingly, the only church that ever got into trouble (with Bushco's IRS) was a liberal church due to, what, an anti-war sermon? :shrug: Paging Alan Grayson? Hopefully, the DC Council won't bow to their demands but, at least so far, they don't seem like they will.

[slackmaster]

3. I've had it with ultimata and am not going to take them any more

:nuke:

[orpupilofnature57]

5. Pseudo authority ,a form of an empty threat ,is the catholic church going

too excommunicate Washington D.C. ? Lieberman is a cracked actor a Roid Bennett of the senate.

[Angry Dragon]

6. From this simple minded voter

seemingly with no regard to the bigger picture or what is in the best interests of our country and its citizens?

The above sentence says it all. These people are the first ones to spout out about the Constitution and say how everyone except them is destroying it. These people have to swear to uphold the Constitution to get their jobs and once they do that they forget all about until it suits their needs.

What they are doing is un-constitutional in my mind. They are not upholding the rights of the people. They are putting their own agenda before everybody else's. They should be tried for job dereliction.

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Putting Democracy " On The Table "

[Angry Dragon]

13. I'm sorry........I miss what you are saying

[orpupilofnature57]

14. It should have been apparent seconds after she was named head speaker

and uttered those words ,where Pelosi's heart was.

[gleaner]

7. I can't tell you why they are ...

doing it, but I have noticed the same things you have and I am really fed up with it. Did everybody go to Tea Bag seminars on how to abuse their offices and keep things from getting done, because this is the best way to do that.

I expect nothing from Reid. He did nothing under Bush and he's not doing anything differently now. Pelosi seems to act in fits and starts. She starts boldly enough and the bows to pressure. She doesn't seem to be able to stay the course. I haven't seen Obama stand up to anyone over much of anything, so if you want to you may join me in feeling totally screwed. I wish things would change for the better too, but I don't have very much hope that they will.

[Angry Dragon]

10. I wonder if it is just a case of psuedo-power syndrome

They have been bought and paid for by the corporations, the corporations are calling the shoots and these guys are so hungry to look like they have power, they just are full of bluff and mirrors to appear they have power.

[rucky]

11. End the ultimatums - or else!

I think it has something to do with how eager the Dem congress is to appease the opposition. What reason do they have not to scream demands? They get addressed.

[orpupilofnature57]

12. Good one !!!

[Bitwit1234]

18. Our representatives have selective memories

we voted for them to do our bidding and they only remember to do their bidding. They know they can't get voted out so they continue to do what they want. The public is too un-caring to go to the polls and vote them out.

[ThoughtCriminal]

20. Rec this thread... or else!

[Proud Liberal Dem]

21. Ha!!!

:rofl:

Thanks!!! :hi:

[closeupready]

22. Because these individuals and groups are seeing an end to their Bush-enabled power,

and they don't like it, and can not face up to it. So they stamp their feet and make threats, like the spoiled children they've been treated as.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

24. Yeah, I guess it would seem that way

I think that the Blue Dogs and especially "Holy Joe" must be feeling particularly impotent now that Bushco is gone and need to make some noise to keep themselves relevant I guess. I just hope we don't give in to them- the Blue Dogs especially.