What really happened at Fort Hood

[malaise]

Will we ever hear the truth?
---------------------------------
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/us/12hood.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1258034527-qxax+xfBqwW6rkPlKMePmw
<snip>
KILLEEN, Tex. — Sgt. Kimberly D. Munley has been applauded as a hero across the nation for shooting down Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan during the bloody rampage at Fort Hood last week. The account of heroism, given by the authorities, attracted the attention of newspapers, the networks and television talk shows.

But the story of how the petite police officer and the accused gunman went down in an exchange of gunfire does not agree with the account of an eyewitness who had gone to the base’s processing center, where the shooting occurred, to conduct business before being deployed.

The witness, who asked not to be identified, said Major Hasan wheeled on Sergeant Munley as she rounded the corner of a building and shot her, putting her on the ground. Then Major Hasan turned his back on her and started putting another magazine into his semiautomatic pistol.

How the authorities came to issue the original version of the story, which made Sergeant Munley a national hero for several days and obscured Sergeant Todd’s role, remains unclear. (Military officials also said for several hours after the shooting that Major Hasan had been killed, although he had survived.)

spacing.

[deminks]

1. Fascinating.

That is all I can manage to say right now.

While they are both deserving of praise for going into the line of fire, I am not surprised after Jessica Lynch that someone would try to put a different spin on things. Just who that someone is might be very interesting.

[peekaloo]

2. the friendly fire speculation has been quieted, too.

[stray cat]

7. Maybe because it was speculation - presumably those armed were outside the building

except for the gunman

[Prometheus Bound]

3. I wondered about that when I read this CNN story on a DU thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x494313

I was rather amazed that almost no one else noticed the enormous difference in the two stories. It smelled very strange.

[TexasObserver]

4. Yes, it will likely be another Army fabrication ala Jessica Lynch.

The Army's original Jessica Lynch story:

Surrounded and wounded, she killed several Iraqi soldiers, was captured, and while being held a prisoner at a hospital, was repeatedly raped, until the daring Army mission saved her.

Reality:

She drove down the wrong street, got hit, and was badly injured, never having fired a weapon. She was taken to the hospital and under good care. Word was sent to the Army that she was there. Instead of just getting her, they staged a bogus raid to create the "movie" they wanted to use for propaganda.

That's the Army. They make up heroic tales to take the eye off the disaster they allowed to happen.

The female police officer did her job and bravely so. That is a hero, if one is needed. She did that job and did run to the gunfire. The story doesn't need to make up something that didn't happen. If someone else shot the doctor, that should be told. For once, it would be nice if the Army just gave us the facts.

[bertman]

18. I believe that Jessica Lynch verified that she was injured in the vehicle accident--not by

enemy fire. But who are we to quibble with details when the Army is trying to create another Sergeant York?

I long for the day when we can get a FACTUAL account from our military, rather than some jazzed up version of what is already a heroic act.

Not trying to take anything away from Officer Munley here. She's a hero in my book. A very brave woman.

[sattahipdeep]

5. Will we ever hear the truth?

What an astoundingly bullshit answer! Time for Mueller to go.

The FBI said it turned over the information to the Army, but Defense Department officials today denied that.

Cheney’s special ops, just to whip up the fear factor a little more?

A former counterterrorism official said the information about Hasan's communications with the imam should have been shared with the military unless the FBI specifically forbade it.

President Obama needs a new FBI director.

At some point, President Obama has to lose confidence in this man. He is a proven liar.

[malaise]

8. 100% correct

Who sent him from Walter Reed to Fort Hood and why? The plot thickens.

[bertman]

19. ALL FBI Directors are proven liars. That's their job. Or, at least, a big part of it.

[stray cat]

6. People were murdered by a gunman?

[ddeclue]

9. So what's your point? She's "less" of a hero because she got shot first but shot him while he was

reloading?

:crazy:

I'm sorry but this picking nits.

:crazy:

If this were the Orlando shooter and she were a civillian cop, she'd be totally justified in blowing his brains out before he killed her or another civillian. We're supposed to have some kind of different standard here because he was a Muslim and this shooting MIGHT have some connection to his religious/political views? I'm sorry but that (adopting a different standard of police conduct) is just as bigotted as Wolf Blitzer questioning Nadal's right to counsel.

[Johonny]

15. I think they're trying to imply a cowardly act

She shot him in the back while reloading while on the ground, not while charging bravely through gun fire. So you can see how such a story wouldn't play as well as the first story released to the press. Conflicting eye witnesses reports is nothing new in a criminal case. Given the number of witnesses there's never going to be a single coherent final version that doesn't conflict with some eye witnesses. I personally don't care, but there's a lot of DUers paranoid of or flat out hate the military.

[ddeclue]

17. You know when some psycho is shooting innocent bystanders I'm not real picky about which side the

cops shoot him/her on. The back works just as well for me.

:eyes:

[bertman]

20. Back, front, side, groin, ear. You're right, ddeclue. Kill the motherfucker. However you can.

[dgibby]

16. No, she's not less of a hero.

The point of the op, imo, is that the official Army story doesn't jive with eye witness accounts of what actually happened. It's disturbing, because, if true, it points to an official policy of disinformation, Jessica Lynch, Pat Tillman, etc.

Speaking of bigotry (and racism),I find it interesting that they've hyped her role in this, while almost totally ignoring Sgt Todd. What is he? Chopped liver?

As for the Major, I think it way too early to jump to any conclusions about motive. This could be nothing more than someone going "postal" in the workplace or it could be a lone wolf religious extremest, or it could be a terrorist attack, aided and abetted by other actors as yet unnamed.

My take on all of this is that I think there were a lot of hero's that day, some of whom will never get any publicity at all, but I think it behooves the Army to get the story straight.

[KittyWampus]

22. "OFFICIAL Army story? There is no "official" Army story yet. That some DU'ers are implying there is

shows how much their own preconceived notions condition responses.

From the article:

Six days after the deadly shooting rampage at a center where soldiers were preparing for deployment, the military has yet to put out a full account of what happened.

At a news conference outside the post on Wednesday, Lt. Col. John Rossi refused to take questions about who shot Major Hasan or why the initial reports said it had been Sergeant Munley rather than Sergeant Todd.

“These questions are specific to the investigation and I am not going to address that,” Colonel Rossi said.

Public affairs officials also declined to make Chuck Medley, the director of emergency services at the post, available for questions. It was Mr. Medley, who oversees the post’s civilian police and fire departments, who gave the first account of how Sergeant Munley stopped the gunman.

On Tuesday night, Lt. Col. Lee Packnett, of the Army’s Office of the Chief of Public Affairs at the Pentagon, declined to say whether it was Sergeant Todd who had shot Major Hasan. “It could have been, but the final outcome will be determined by the results of the ballistics tests.”

[sattahipdeep]

10. Get this

"I think the closest thing that indicates that there's a court-martial in the works is last night about 8 I did receive an e-mail from the prosecutor at Fort Hood indicating to me that the pass privileges and leave privileges of Maj. Hasan had been revoked," Galligan said. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

11. I generally don't trust any article that refers to a woman as being 'petite'. nt

[Captain Hilts]

12. None of the details are clear. We'll just have to wait.

[mmonk]

13. Where I have heard this before? Oh yeah, Lynch.

I never take US authorities' words anymore at face value. That shipped sailed a long time ago.

[pleah]

14. And the timing of the shooting.

Convenient, since the are debating troop surge in Afghanistan.

[UTUSN]

21. The key excerpts, telling who "Sergeant TODD" is

But not everything is a plot. There really is a "fog of war" when things are happening fast and all at once and not everything can be known immediately.

**********QUOTE********

.... It was at that moment that Senior Sgt. Mark Todd, a veteran police officer, rounded another corner of the building, found Major Hasan fumbling with his weapon and shot him. ....

Sergeant Todd acknowledged that he had played a major role in bringing the violence to an end. He said that he had fired at the suspect, kicked his weapon away and placed him in handcuffs. It was the first time in his 25 years in law enforcement and the military, Sergeant Todd said, that he had used his weapon. ....

********UNQUOTE********

[sattahipdeep]

23. Hasan had a security clearance at the "secret" level....

This smells, this really smells like a Sy-Op to me.

....
And, as of now at least, there's no surveillance camera footage? the lack of video from the scene which was almost certainly filmed by security cameras.

....
"We must compile every piece of information that was known about the gunman, and we must learn what was done with that information. Once we have those facts, we must act upon them."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iwYEFasV3WqznkJoN2-BwTxAN4fgD9BV8RHG1

....
President Barack Obama said on Saturday he would hold to account those who missed warning signs that could have prevented a shooting rampage on a Texas army base.

The officials said U.S. intelligence agencies learned of the communications late last year and passed this knowledge to federal authorities, who judged they were largely consistent with his academic work and did not warrant an investigation.

The information was shared with a joint terrorism task force led by the FBI, but the Pentagon said it had not been informed of the contacts until after the shooting spree.

....
On the Thursday evening that this tragedy took place, I met in the Oval Office with Secretary of Defense Gates, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mullen, and FBI Director Mueller

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN13478696

Review Of Ft. Hood Shootings Needed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2BgWKlPAuQ

[Recovered Repug]

27. A "secret" security clearance means nothing.

All officers hold a secret clearance, or higher.

[sattahipdeep]

29. “Your intention is the main issue,”

But a counterterrorism analyst who examined the messages shortly after they were sent decided that they were consistent with AUTHORIZED research Major Hasan was conducting and did not alert his military superiors.

....
In the Web posting investigators BEliEvE was his, Major Hasan suggested that a suicide bomber might have just as noble a purpose as a soldier who throws himself on a grenade to protect his comrades.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/us/15hasan.html

[jmowreader]

24. The Army loves to exaggerate the deeds of women who come under fire

Remember the Panama invasion--you know, the thing back in 1983 when we had to expend American soldiers' lives to correct a Bush Family mistake. The Army needed to take the Panamanian Defense Force's working dog facility. They sent an MP company that had a female company commander to do the mission, the facility's security team decided to shoot at the MPs, and next thing you know the company commander was the next Audie Murphy.

Who actually dropped Major Hasan doesn't change the fact that two very brave MPs--SGTs Munley and Todd--went into a building where some maniac was walking around with a gun shooting people, and they're both heroes.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

26. k i c k

[slackmaster]

28. The news media got it all wrong the first time around

Color me shocked.

[spanone]

30. they also promoted the story of what he yelled before he began firing...has this been verified?

[sattahipdeep]

31. Major Hasan Sought War Crimes Prosecution of U.S. Soldiers

Major Nidal Hasan's military superiors repeatedly ignored or
rebuffed his efforts to open criminal prosecutions of soldiers he
claimed had confessed to "war crimes" during psychiatric
counseling, according to investigative reports circulated among
federal law enforcement officials.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/officials-major-hasan-sought-war-crimes-prosecution-us/story?id=9019904

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4148620&mesg_id=4148620