I'm a horseshit veteran, and I'm not alone...

[catnhatnh]

until Blackwater and Haliburton the game was a ratio of "tail to tooth" (actual combat guys) 9 to 1...meaning that even at the height of Vietnam only 1 soldier in 10 saw real combat.
That means that 90% of all soldiers were "clerks and jerks", or more clearly support people. We each had a job and we did it. We all survived basic which was actually tougher in that time period. We all did our bids. But please don't confuse me with an actual combat guy. I fixed helicopters well and managed to avoid getting shot at. Today was a day for me and EVERYONE who wore the uniform. The thing is that all of us were supporting the country, but for that single, small percentage- they are Gods to me.
Getting shot at is a different thing. May all our DU combat vets have a great day...

[Captain Hilts]

1. I LOVE your honesty and integrity. BRAVO! nt

[vadawg]

2. i wonder if 9 to 1 throughout most militarys, or only in the tech orientated US/Allies

would be interesting to see comparisons, though i dont remember seeing many support guys, i sure there were some there...

[catnhatnh]

5. Well,

the combat guys used to be limited to 11 MOS's...you know-bravo being infantry and then armor and artillery....but of course every unit had an HQ filled with people dealing with personnel, S-2, S3, and S4...we used to have mechanics and laundry men and clerks...they all wore green.

[vadawg]

7. honestly i was a recce guy, so i other than picking up ammo and rats i didnt see many more people

though you knew they were there.....

[catnhatnh]

9. Awesome...

But tell me you never complained about REMF's...I think they're called "fobbits" now...

[vadawg]

10. my biggest complaint was the cooks having the best kit, waterproofs etc

but we had the old rubber crap ones that make you sweat and we had to wear under our smocks so they wouldnt make noise when scraped against branches.. oh hell i could go on all day probuably... the transport guys telling us to hurry up and put our bergens back on a truck so he could make it back to base, when we had just finished a lurps and were getting some sweets from our packs....

[boppers]

41. They're always been more "support" than combat... it's not a US thing.

The people feeding the animals for the food, the people making/repairing the weapons, the people making/repairing the vehicles, the people checking the weather, mapping the routes, running communications...

[Touchdown]

3. I'm with you. I was a medic in the 80s. Peacetime soldier.

Yeah, I had an MOS that would've seen combat, but there was no "police action" for me to get my butt shot going on in the mid-late 80s.

I usually try not to wear my vet status on my sleeve. It's just unseemly when I see others (usually repugs) do it.

[Birthmark]

4. I guess I'm even more horseshit than you. :)

They didn't even bother to throw a war when I was in.

[catnhatnh]

8. I came close...

...when the 1st pulled out December of 73 I had my orders canceled. Would you like me to tell you I was disappointed? My Dad avoided WW2 because it ended "too soon"...But my brother (drafted) spent 70-71 in the Ah Shau Valley with the 506th of the 101 Airborne (think Band of Brothers and Hamburger Hill).

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I believe you, that you were disappointed

I served somewhere else. There is the hour before the shootout (the first one) and the hour after, or is that the five hours of hell?

When we came back from that the old hands decided to play a prank on us. Got some firecrackers, the really loud ones. They went off, we hit the deck. This was outside the ER entrance doors, and a bunch of civies watching this in astonishment. What or why would these red cross medics be on the ground or taking cover behind the wall? Oh and these old hands were just standing there LAUGHING!!!! Oh the pranks!

Many years later, decades really, I was standing in the kitchen with my husband, who got his ass shot a couple times while in the Navy, mostquitos do not fly over the water m'kay... long story. So here we are in the kitchen talking, BOOOM... I hit the deck, hand on head. He is in a low crouch his hand looking for the gun that is not there in the absent holster. It took us five minutes to figure out what that was, fireworks... we just started laughing very hard... as in extremely hard...

:-)

I share because it is funny, in a way... and we still laugh.

[maxrandb]

39. Earned my first National Defense Ribbon

during Gulf War I while I was on Recruiting Duty in Cincinnati, OH and my 2ND for Operation ENDURING FREEDOM for sitting on an Aircraft Carrier launching planes from 3,000 miles away.

But...if it weren't for us support pukes, the military would grind to a halt!

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. We all wore the same color boots. KnR

I was a sailor who worked on the flight decks of the USS America, the USS Ranger, and the USS Constellation. I've often wondered how other veterans thought I measured up in the larger picture of who gets shot at and who doesn't. I still wonder sometimes, even though I've been a civilian for twenty years now.

All those things aside, I hold my head up high, and love sharing this day with my fellow American Citizens. Those who chose to serve, and those who didn't. At the end of the day, none of us is any better than the other.

I thank you for your service just as I thank anyone who's had to face the business end of the gun.

[catnhatnh]

11. Thanks,

Seems like both you and I recognize the difference between horse sense and horseshit. I'm proud of my service but hold a special respect AND recognize the combat guys are a separate deal.

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. As do we all.

I have no doubt that had my ship been shot at while I sailed with her, I'd have done my job, as would have every other sailor whose job it was to keep her afloat and her planes in a mission ready condition.

[Hello_Kitty]

12. Right there with ya. Served 3 terms and never saw a day of combat.

I technically qualify to be a veteran but every time I volunteer at a veteran's home it brings it home to me.

:patriot:

[catnhatnh]

13. You don't qualify to be a veteran

you ARE a veteran. You swore the oath and did your job. Again I"ll say any of us could have wound up in deep shit but most of us didn't. We have a few on DU that have. Those people I reserve a special place for. That said, many people here have served.

[vadawg]

15. is there a difference between combat veterans and veterans who never saw combat

what i mean is, are there different terms for them.. thanks..

[catnhatnh]

17. No

You served or didn't.

[vadawg]

18. okay always wondered if there was an official thing to show a difference..

thanks mate

[catnhatnh]

19. Well

in 11B it meant CIB. You had one or did not.

[vadawg]

20. 11B CIB ???? not sure of the nomenclature....

[catnhatnh]

23. Ok

If you are military and not sure of the nomenclature than I have to ask which army you you served with. 11B was infantry and the CIB is the combat infantry badge which means you've been shot at.

[vadawg]

24. lol not the american army :) so i wasnt sure of the nomenclature you were referencing

[catnhatnh]

25. Which Army?

And when. Just curious....

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. Are you saying that there should be?

[vadawg]

29. i always thought there was, i was interested to see

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. I just read it to hubby

and trust me, you are a vet too. In fact, all who wore the uniform are

:-)

[proteus_lives]

21. Reminds me of some of the things my dad has said.

He respects all fellow veterans but he's said there is a difference between combat vets and others. He was in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive and when in his cups has told some truly horrific stories about fighting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. It is good that he talks

Trust me. My dad will not, well he sort of opened to my husband once he realized he was a combat vet... Lets just say the nightmares from Poland in 1944... and '45... and the nightmares chase him even now... these many decades later.

[proteus_lives]

27. It was the same with his dad.

My grandfather was in the army during WWII and saw action in North Africa and Europe. Silver Star, Distinguished Flying Cross and two Purple Hearts. Apparently rarely said a word about it but spoke to my dad about it after he came back from Vietnam. My dad has his father's Citation for the Star framed in his office. He never, ever spoke of the war to anyone but my dad but had nightmares about the Battle of the Bulge for his entire life.

My dad had a tough time in the early '80s with flashbacks and PTSD. It was one of the strictest rules in my house that you never, ever sneak up on my dad or touched him while he was sleeping. My uncle Ted once got a bloody nose because he shook my dad's shoulder while he was passed out in a lawn chair. When I was a kid I just thought he just weird but I grew to understand as I got older.

I spent the afternoon with my dad on Sunday and Veterans day had him thinking about it. He's come a long way about it. I'm glad he talks about it now. My parents have a wall of photograph collages in their house that start with them as children and go on to present day. About in the middle is a frame with one half of my mom in college and my dad in Vietnam. There's a photo of him the first day he was there. He looks like a big, tough, scared kid with a duffel bag. But then if you turned your head and looked at the later photos, you'd think "That's a completely different person." There is this one photo I always looked at when I was kid. It's photo of him leaning against a half-collapsed wall holding a M-60, bandoleers of ammo on his chest and back. He was turned towards the camera and it's one of the shots were someone says "hey over here" and snaps the pic as you turn. What always hit me was his eyes. They looked so aware yet empty. It scared me when I was little. I thought they were ghost eyes. Years later when I was reading a book and first had a "Thousand Yard Stare" described, I immediately flashed back to that picture.

Woh, sorry if I rambled. With Veterans Day and the Hood thing, I've been thinking about my dad a lot. It was also his birthday this week. I love him a whole lot and my relationship with him is good now. He can be a dye-in-the-wool bastard sometimes but there is no who is more dependable or you would rather have in your corner. I'm glad he's still around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Yeah the eyes, is a dead give away

and you know what? They don't go away.

Glad that you have your father...

HUGS!!!!!!!!!

Me and my husband share that poisoned pill, so I guess to a point it is easier. And no I never make that mistake of shaking my husband awake. EVER.

I just knew.

[proteus_lives]

34. Hugs back at ya.

:pals:

[Thothmes]

35. Poland in 1944 and 45, Who' s army did he serve with?

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. HItler's travel plan

Holocaust Survivor, and was forced into the Red Army as well.

[catnhatnh]

26. I just deleted a mail from vadawg

Totally by mistake.I read it quickly and got the jist of it. Understanding what you wrote I'll just say that yes, that was the state of our army through Vietnam. I'm betting that even other armies have people in the rear never expected to perform as you did. But when not in the bush you appreciated them.

[paulsby]

31. is that true for marines?

i am not a veteran myself, and i respect your service, btw.

i work with a lot of former marines, and i get the impression from them (true or not) that a higher percentage of marines serve combat roles vs. the other armed services.



is their ratio lower?

[county worker]

33. During TET many of us "repair" guys were engaged in our first real combat.

I was a radar repairman at Long Binh. During TET we found out that the enemy had infiltrated every city town and village surrounding us. We were given hasty training on M-60 and M-50 machine guns and sent out to defend our repair facilities. Ours was just across the road from Ben Hoa air base.

The ammo dump on the base was blown up and we were surrounded. I owe my life to the guys in the huey's and cobras who all night fired mini guns and rockets into the enemy.

I don't mind saying that I wasn't a combat troop but still at times we all could have been killed. My chances of survival were better than theirs for sure.

On edit: For six months I was part of an on call repair team. We were called to go anywhere and fix radar sets. We would ask some warrant officer in a heuy if he was going in our direction and if he had room he would take us but they would never bring us back.

Rarely did I know where we were going or where we were. On the return we had to hitch rides on caribous and were dumped off at various air strips cut out of the jungle. We were left there all alone with our equipment waiting for another plane to come and take us the rest of the way. I always thought we were sitting targets then.

[Toots]

36. I was a crew chief on a helicopter gunship 67 November and was in the shit most of the time

My gunner was killed at our base camp (rear area) from an enemy rocket. The rear was very dangerous at times as well..Unless you were a stateside REMF you paid your dues.

[Voltaire]

37. I feel the same way

I think all who serve are vets, but combat vets are most deserving of the honor. I gladly accept the thanks of people, but I never equate myself with a combat vet because I am not worthy of that honor.

[Orsino]

38. Yeah. Honor me, if you will, for my relatively small sacrifices...

...that most civilians never make. Honor me for my oath, and for doing my job well.

Just don't confuse me with the heroes.