Liberals should just fucking disappear.

[kentuck]

The Democratic Party and America does not need you anymore. They need your vote but they don't need your ideas. Don't you know that this is a moderate to conservative-right country? Liberalism is dead. Throw the dirt on it. It stepped into the mushy middle and drowned in the confusion. Can't you take a hint??

[prolesunited]

1. How helpful.

:eyes:

[kentuck]

2. Perhaps I need the "sarcasm" sign for you?

Huh? :-)

[cynatnite]

4. It would help get your point across better. n/t

[prolesunited]

Well, reading the crap around here lately, who knows.

I'm a big tent Democrat myself. :)

[Taverner]

45. Sad that you needed a sarcasm tag...

I got your joke...it was pretty blatant. At least to me, someone who get nuance...

[spiritual_gunfighter]

47. The way DU has been lately

I wouldn't have been surprised that his post wasn't sarcasm.

[waiting for hope]

3. Um, okay ...

I suggest Brazil - who wants to move with me? I hear they have the longest number of vacation days .. cuz dammit, I'm tired. Ya know, carrying all that angst has finally caught up.

[kentuck]

5. You can identify yourself as a liberal...

if you have the courage? I am not ashamed to say that I am a liberal...

(edited for the question mark ? )

[Xicano]

6. Did you ever think as a liberal you'd feel estranged by our party?

I never thought I'd see the day, but yet, here we are. Stick up for liberal principles and get attacked by fellow democrats.

[prolesunited]

8. Arguing a different perspective is not an attack

And not all Democrats are liberals just as all liberals are not Democrats.

[Xicano]

10. It is when you're called a republican, a teabagger, on top of other things.

For just standing up for democratic values and principles by speaking out against those who act oppositely.

[BeHereNow]

20. The term "fellow democrats" is debatable in your usage....

Fascist fucks who pretend to be democrats is more like it.

BHN

[Xicano]

24. Well that is certainly true in several respects.

But I am sure they believe themselves to be democrats, and that makes it that much more frustrating. Its so unfortunate isn't it that all they are, are lap dogs to wall street puppets acting as "fascist fucks."

We need to get our party back because at the rate we're going we're gonna one day start seeing company towns, company stores, company bosses we have to share our shrinking paychecks with in order to keep a job, etc.

I don't care what these posser democrats think or say. In my opinion they're just as responsible for the situation we have going on in washington as wall street is.

Anyway, thanks BeHereNow. :hi:



Peace,
Xicano

[BeHereNow]

25. They check their accountability at the door-

Rah-Rah-Rah for anything with a (D) beside it.
Consequences of that blind Bush/Cheney type cheer leading mentality?
No comment from them.

THAT is not Democratic in any shape of form.
Thanks to you also-
BHN:hug:

[hfojvt]

32. what about

3rd party splinterists who pretend to be Democrats. Their only message is "the Democrats are bought and paid for, abandon ship, abandon ship"

[BeHereNow]

33. When is the last time you followed the money?

The corporate money flows into BOTH sides of the aisle.
The result?
Democrats AND Republicans legislating for the multi nationals, not WE, the people.

Is that what passes for democracy in your frame of reference?

Abandon ship?
Hell no.
Elect representatives that represent US.
Not the multi nations corps and their global banksters.
Kick the bastards and bitches OUT of office who
legislate based on their serving at the corporate trough.
Until we do, it is CORPORATISM, better called FASCISM.
BHN
Progressive Democrat,as in progress can not be advanced until
we DEAL with the problem.

[hfojvt]

35. it's not just corporations

Just today I was waiting to march in the parade with the local party and saw our state senator. I mentioned that during the election I got invited to a $500 a plate fund-raiser for her, and that if her campaign was financed by rich people, what are the odds that she would support increasing taxes on rich people.

Of course, the bottom line is that Republicans would die before they allowed that and that they control the Legislature, but Kansas Democrats don't even try. They don't even seem to offer an alternative. Our Governor (now Secretary of HHS) began the budget negotiations by ruling out a tax increase, which she said would "hurt Kansas families". Well, a mere 1% increase on families making over $100,000 would a) not hurt very much, b) would hurt less than 12% of Kansas families and c) would hurt less than the alternative, which is to cut another $200 million from the budget.

So the answer to your question is - this morning.

There are plenty of people here constantly suggesting abandoning ship - "I'm not gonna vote any more", "I'm not gonna donate or work", "I'm gonna vote for a 4th party candidate", etc., etc., etc.

[BeHereNow]

36. I think people simply don't know what to do... they feel powerless, and rightfully so.

The majority of people in this country have no prayer of being able to attend a $500.00 a plate
fundraiser for a politician. They have been disenfranchised from the system
through economic elitism fostered by the pay to play monopoly.

The fact that ANY politician would suggest such a thing is OBSCENE and further evidence
that your average politician is COMPLETELY out of touch with the day to day reality
his/her constituents live.

Bastille day?
Perhaps it is coming.

I sincerely hope so.

BHN

[Xicano]

37. Or how about

We all know wall-street owns washington. Nothing is going to change as long as we keep electing people who receive bribes from the rich.

It seems nobody even tries to vote for the folks who refuse to take corporate money. Too many people are scared we'll lose seats to the repubs. Well, so what. So the hell what as long as the dems are acting more like repubs than actual dems. NOTHING is gonna change until we MAKE it change. Starting with Obama.inc. and the current make-up of elected dems in congress. We make it known that all who have worked against the interests of the democratic base, especially in favor of special interests, they are done, they will not get one stinking vote. They need to understand in no uncertain terms that if they act against us in any way shape or form, they will be fired - period end of discussion.

But you see, they are not afraid of that because they know us. They know that no matter what people are going to vote them back in rather than take a loss of a dem held seat. Even though they act more like a repub than a dem they know it doesn't matter.

See, people are too scared at losing a battle to win the war. I guarantee you if the majority of dems refused to vote for corporate bribe taking dems or anybody else who serves corporate interests over people interests, and stuck to their guns on this issue, we'd have public ran universal health care, trade protections eliminating any benefit from off-shoring jobs, less unemployment, sensible price caps and other consumer protection regulations such as labeling of all GMO foods for example, alternative and renewable energy, no wars for profiteers, etc, etc, etc.

So until we come to grips that we may have to take it on the chin for a few rounds of elections we are not going to see any meaningful change. In my opinion it is vital that we boycott (blacklist) any and every elected dem who's represented special interests and let the chips fall where they may. It probably won't look pretty for a couple of elections, but, the fruit it will bare will be totally worth it in my opinion.

Or we can keep doing what we're doing and nothing will change.



Didn't feel like retyping what I think, so this is a repost from an earlier post I made.



Peace,
Xicano

[BeHereNow]

38. Excellent post- thanks.

Yes nothing will change until we are unified in getting these corporations
out of our government- on BOTH sides of the aisle.
Now that would unify Americans, on both sides of the aisle.
We would once again have a two party system, not this farce of Kabuki Congress theatrics
produced by, paid for, by corporate interests.

BHN

[hfojvt]

39. you mean we have to let Republicans control the White House

and Congress for six years in order to make the country more liberal?

I have this nagging feeling that that will not work.

[Xicano]

42. Take a close look at what's going on around you.

Can you honestly say that wall street isn't married to washington? Seriously, I am not trying to be sarcastic. Can you look at the policies coming out of washington and say that it is not mostly to the benefit of wall street and main street along with the general public can be damned?

Once you come to the conclusion wall street is indeed running the show in washington, how can you continue to support it? If I am a wolf and I put on a sheep costume, does that magically make me a sheep? No of course not. I am a wolf in sheep's clothing. So what makes you think people in congress, in the white house or in the supreme court who do wall street's bidding are nothing other than wall streeters regardless of what stripe clothing they put on? C'mon man use your sense, you're a democrat for gawd sakes. Stop falling for the hype.

And NO we don't have to go along with it. Going along with it, a.k.a. voting for the lesser of two evils, has been an epic failure. Does the wage gap continue to increase or has it at all decreased? Can two or even three incomes provide a family today what one income provided fifty or sixty years ago? Has wars for wall street profiteering ceased? Does the rest of the world continue to admire the US or has our image continued to decline? Do you actually think all these wall street so-called dems have been a vanguard of democratic values and principles? Again, take a good look around you. Its the very definition of insanity to continue with a failed policy thinking you're gonna get different results.

Again, stop voting for wall streeters. Black list anybody who's not a democrat by their actions. Only vote for democrats who act ONLY as democrats and see how fast REAL change happens. This business as usual crap is killing us - literally.

Now for a little video refresher on this point, please view these two very short clips: Thanks:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q#t=2m29s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqpFm7zAK90#t=1m14s



Peace,
Xicano

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Who The Fuck Else Ya Gonna' Vote For?

Ha-ha, we Liberals lose.

Remember back when (almost) everyone thought Bill Clinton was the bee's knees? When he was sending jobs to China, deregulating banks, and outsourcing torture?

...

[NoUsername]

23. Ah, yes.

I thought Clinton sucked (for all the reasons you listed and more) but the way things are going, I'm beginning to suspect we'll one day look back fondly on the Clinton era and long for those days. Kind of like how the Bush era makes Reagan look damn near like a friggin' moderate in comparison. I remember during the Reagan years thinking that he was the "worst President ever." Apparently I was wrong on that.

Looks like Obama is going to prove me wrong on Clinton as well.

[Xicano]

46. Its very frustrating isn't it?

Especially seeing how many people fall for the hype these wall streeters put out.

*sigh*



Peace,
Xicano

[Life Long Dem]

9. You talk to much.

Now go to your room and shut-up.

[kentuck]

12. I've been known to talk "too" much..

I strive for moderation in my liberalness.

[KamaAina]

11. What should progressives do?

Fall into a black hole and emerge into an alternate single-payer universe?!

[PurityOfEssence]

14. They already helped evil by distancing themselves from the term "liberal" when cowed by the trogs

To many of us, that term is a reminder of the problem.

[Life Long Dem]

15. It's time to start patching up the holes.

[CreekDog]

13. Rahm, with all due respect, I disagree with you

:thumbsdown:

[Jamastiene]

16. We're fucked.

There is no other way to look at it.

[DerekG]

17. Hell, they wanted us to disappear after McGovern's defeat

We should have took their advice and went somewhere else.

[rucky]

18. Can you suggest an island or something?

Preferably a mild tropical climate with lots of coconuts.

Thanks in advance! :hi:

[the other one]

19. refreshing

[Sinti]

21. You are aware that Conservatism failed miserably, right?

Changing the brand name doesn't change the fail. Personally, I'm proud to call myself a liberal. Even if liberalism fails, at least we can say we were kind. O8)

[kentuck]

22. At least we had a heart.

But why should a political Party need a heart??

[Sinti]

27. I believe the reason why humans invented government

was to get the people more organized, so they would live longer, and better. Plus, it's hard for a man alone to build big things and/or travel long distances. From that point you've got to choose what kind of mental baggage do you want to carry, the mean bits are too spikey for me. I prefer the smooth. I find it more effective - but to each his own, I suppose.

[paulsby]

28. it;'s a pendulum swing, and the myopia astounds me

it wasn't long ago that repubs were saying that liberalism had failed, and they controlled the govt. and... well guess what happened.

they lost.

now, we have control, and have the EXACT same hubris and myopia that they had. conservatism is NOT dead. realistically speaking, bush was not a conservative anyway. he was a very statist right moderate. but i digress.

all this arrogance and myopia just makes it easier for conservatism to take over again, at some point. and then they get too cocky and the situation reverses and...

the swings in political mood in this manner remind me very much of the stock market. everybody;'s exuberant and wants to buy more when it;'s overbought (and ready to fall) and vice versa on the downside.

people are starting to LIKE the market now at 10,000 and were scared pissless at 6500. and of course in retrospect, 6500 was a great time to buy, and now is probably a good time to sell

politics and economics are similar because they are emotional.

[Sinti]

29. myopia and pendulum swing? I don't understand what you mean

I am not in the midst of a pendulum swing, personally. I have always been a liberal.

Meaning: Generous; broad-minded; tolerant; not bound by authoritarianism;

Not Meaning: A person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets - in this sense Bush is a liberal.

I am a person who wants the best possible outcome for everyone. I believe the best way to prevent war is to actively seek peace. I believe the best way to prevent crime, and deterioration in society, is to provide plenty of good paying jobs. I believe in unions, co-ops, family-owned, and employee owned business and I give them favor with my $$ every time I can.

I personally don't care what the DOW is at, because it has no impact on most people's every day lives. If people had the security of knowing that if they were willing to work they could get a job, be productive, and earn enough to take car of a family, no one else would care about the DOW.

Being a liberal means being someone who loves the citizens of their country (and the rest of the world) and wants the best possible life for them. We get there by working together.

When poor people lose, rich people also lose, because as humans our strength is our mind - we survive, because we think our way out of problems. We leave more minds to waste than we use by far. How far could we go if we used all of the potential brilliance out there? When things are falling down, but you can't afford to fix them as a nation, because a small handful of people has all the money and is demanding that you print more for them... well, let me just say, the stock market means very little to me at this point. I don't want anyone's grandmother out in the street.

[paulsby]

31. i;'ll clarify

the pendulum swing has to do with which "philosophy" is in favor.

not too long ago, those in the repub party controlled most of the govt. and the conventional wisdom was that the left/liberalism was dead. they got fat, bloated, lazy, and arrogant

and ... guess what...

we took over.

now, we have people (iow this thread) saying "conservatism is dead". conservatism is no more dead now, than liberalism was during the "reagan revolution"

iow, today's flava of the month aint necessarily gonna be the same in a short while

it's historically myopic.

as for your comments of the dow, the stats disagree with you. a very high %age of people in this country have exposure to the dow, and the market in general. greater than at any point in history, when you consider all those 401k's, 403(b)'s, IRA's, Roth-Ira's, etc.

when the dow swung from 14k to 6.5k, HUGE amounts of wealth were lost. andif you think it's only the rich, you are insane. middle class people who had (for example) a couple hundred k in their 401k, saw they now had about 80 or 90

if they were more heavily invested in bank stocks, they saw a greater drop.

that was a HUGE loss of wealth for scores of millions of people.

now, it's halfway back, over 10k, and imo at a precarious juncture due to the disconnect between "on the street" reality and the market. the decoupling from the dollar, for example.

regardless, my point about the pendulum has to do with public opinion, not your personal political beliefs, which may be very consistent.

[Sinti]

34. I see

I thought you were suggesting that I might want to moderate my personal beliefs, because it's a swing of the pendulum, and the conservatives will come back and beat you at the ballot box. Of course, my question in response to that would be, what good is winning if you can't make things any better.

Conservatism isn't dead, it's alive and well in both parties. However, the ideology has proven itself once again to be a complete failure.

I don't believe that people's security of person should be dependent on a system that has proven itself to be quite precariously balanced, to be kind. It may well be that people are invested in the markets, because they were given that as their option for retirement. Once upon a time people got pensions.

I feel that a nation is only wealthy if its people are secure in their person. I believe that a human being shouldn't have to beg for a job - because they need a job to survive. Thus, to deprive them of a fair paying job is to ultimately deprive them of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." If a human being is willing to work, they should be able to find work that pays enough to survive. It's beyond cruel to leave a willing human being out in the cold to die.

If others would prefer to take the opposite position for fear of their stock market paper-wealth will turn to dust, they're welcome to do so. Of course, I would hope to some day change their mind :)

[madrchsod]

26. you noticed too...

here i thought i was the only one. i`m not sure if this is the 60`s with lbj or the late 70`s with carter. i know for dam sure we do`t have another fdr running the show.

but one thing i do know--- i`ll be a progressive democrat till the day i die

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. I noticed quite some time ago. :^( Even though I have always been a Green I

nearly always vote Dem for higher offices, and I don't often feel like I am well-represented by those people. :(

[tmyers09]

30. .

[kentuck]

40. I wonder if there are Democrats here afraid to call themselves "liberals"?

I know there are some that give liberals no credibility and totally discount any idea that might be labelled as "liberal". Liberals do not help the Party, in their opinion. It seems that way to me. I wonder why some aren't registered as Republicans?

[bvar22]

41. Election 2008

Election 2008 was a crushing defeat for the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.


The DLC New Team
Liberals Need NOT Apply

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

Republicans and Health Insurance Lobbyists have more access to the White House than the Progressive Caucus, which has been reduced to writing letters to the White House.

[Echo In Light]

44. And that only applies if one actually believes there's ANY legitimacy to our sham, corporate-based

"elections."