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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 10:58 PM
Original message
A Vroom of One's Own: Muscle Cars Return
NOVEMBER 11, 2009

A Vroom of One's Own: Muscle Cars Return

By JONATHAN WELSH

Amid a dismal market for auto sales, one category is seeing a surprising uptick: muscle cars. The promise of a speedy, fun and flamboyant drive is winning over an increasing number of drivers, despite the struggling economy and rising unemployment—and despite a steep dropoff in auto sales since the "cash for clunkers" incentive program ended in August.

Sales of low-priced sports cars such as the Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro and Dodge Challenger jumped 68% in October, compared with the same month last year. Sales for 2009 are up 7.2%, while most segments have posted double-digit declines, according to J.D. Power & Associates. The definition of "sports car" is broad, ranging from a $22,000 Mazda Miata to a $300,000 Ferrari 599 Fiorano. The current sales surge affects a sub-segment known in the industry as "midsize sporty." The group also includes imports like the Mazda RX-8 and Toyota Camry Solara. The formula that's working right now includes a big engine—typically at least 300 horsepower—two doors, a cramped backseat, flashy exterior styling and a starting price under $30,000. They're generally aimed at middle-aged buyers, but they appeal to a broad demographic, ranging from 20-somethings to seniors.

Dave Drobek of Spring Hill, Tenn., bought a 304-horsepower Chevrolet Camaro in August for $28,000. The chief attractions? Its looks, its speed and the way it attracts attention. "I fell in love with it," says the 55-year-old maintenance technician. "And the first time I drove it to the grocery store there were three people checking out my car when I came out." Mr. Drobek says he has been "a car nut" for years and previously drove a red Honda S2000 convertible. Its stiff ride was "too harsh" for his aging frame, he says, while the Camaro is more comfortable and easier to drive. Its large trunk is also more practical. When he drives sedately, he can eke out 29 miles per gallon. Not that he does that a lot. "On the interstate, I like to find a hole in the traffic and just go, and I usually drive about 80 miles per hour," he says. "In Tennessee they let you go a bit."

(snip)

It helps, of course, that muscle cars are fairly inexpensive. Some even have good fuel economy, so buyers can more easily rationalize their purchases. Indeed, Mr. Drobek says he bought a Camaro with a six-cylinder engine instead of the thirstier eight-cylinder model.

(snip)

Muscle cars got their start in the 1960s, which many car fans still consider the high point of U.S. automotive prowess. They reached their zenith of power, performance and appeal around 1970, after which restrictions related to pollution and insurance—and steeply rising fuel prices—slowly killed off the muscle car. The new models are reminders of that period, attracting older drivers who remember the original cars, while their styling and speed appeal to younger buyers who missed the 1960s completely. The sports-car boom, if it continues, won't be enough to lift the auto industry out of its doldrums: It accounted for only 2% of overall passenger car and truck sales in October, which have declined 25% this year. In fact, sales of sports cars may be cannibalizing sales of other types of cars. Industry researcher IHS Global Insight says some sports-car buyers would have previously bought large pickup trucks—more for image than for their intended use.

(snip)

Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page D1

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748703808904574527481898705784.html (subscription)
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. If only I needed a car for self esteem. Whoops...
I don't. I did when I was a child of 18, some 20 or more years ago, but not now.

I could give a shit about cars in general now. "A to B in reliability" plus decent MPG - that's it.

I've had Mustang's with 302's (18-20), AMC crazy cars (borrowed when I was 16), Toyota Celica's (16-18), Fiero's (19 to stupid - back when they got the looks...) for Christ sake down to Porsche's but that was all flash.

Now I've got a 94 Nissan PU and an old Subaru Outback and they are fine as dandy.

Give e trams, trains and planes now please.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. i`ll take one of these....
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 11:09 PM by madrchsod


please........
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I Like these three...
Don Garlits SuperStock Challenger.

The SEMA Concept Car....



The Street Version available at your local Dodge Dealer...



And for the "Clean Air Crowd"....The ProPane Chevelle...



DISPLACEMENT 527.6 CID
COMPRESSION 13.5:1
TORQUE 800+
HORSEPOWER 1000+

And its STREET LEGAL!!!
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Good taste!
I was in high school in the early and mid 70's, when the originals were out. Myself and my friends drove these things around and got into plenty of trouble with them.

I had a 70 340 Duster and got 12 tickets in one year.

Those were the days.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. A "sports car" has two seats and two doors.
It's not that broad.

With that out of the way, I'm happy to see the new range of muscle cars doing so well. Matter of fact, I'm happy to see the increase of horsepower in general across the automotive spectrum. When one can buy a hatchback with near as makes no difference, 300 horsepower or a 4 door Cadillac that puts up supercar numbers...that's a good thing.

That Mr. Drobek had a night/day swap. Both the S2000 and the Camaro are good, but one you have to rev the shit out of because there's no torque, and the other is built with the mindset of a stump-puller.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Dupe.
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 11:10 PM by flvegan
Sorry.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'd rather have a Lotus Exige. Don't need a lot of muscle if you don't have
drag around a lot of weight.



· 0-60 mph 4.0 sec
· 0-100 mph 10 sec
· Top Speed 150 mph
· Fuel Consumption 20 City / 26 Highway
· Curb Weight 2020 lbs
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. those are super cool....
but i`m to old to handle it.....
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Because it's a proper sports car.
Outside of the Corvettes and the exotics, most sports cars didn't/don't have a whole lot of horsepower for just that reason. They take into account things like weight and, well, cornering.
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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. That's the word, cornering.
That's what makes a sports car fun to drive for me. There's noting like the feel of downshifting into a curve and feeling the Gs as you accelerate out.

I haven't driven the newer muscle cars but I hope they do a better job than the old models from the 70s. Sure they looked great and went like a bat outta hell in a straight line but take one on the twisties and it's a mediocre drive at best.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. dupe
Edited on Wed Nov-11-09 11:26 PM by alfredo
Dupe

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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. when most people spend the day sitting in traffic what good is 300 HP?
All it is is a big shot deal . OH I can do 0 to 60 in seconds , really who cares you must be so proud . I never owned anything other than one van that had a V-8 the rest were VW's and they still got me around just find and the old one I have now still does and gets over 36MPG on the highway and it's a 1973 .
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mamaleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think it's more about being able to appreciate the design and engineering.
My husband is counting down the days until he gets to buy a muscle car (he still has years and years) and I have to say the more I read about some of them and see them, the more I like them. There is something beautiful about the muscle car.
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vadawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-11-09 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. not everyone lives in places where they sit in traffic, personally i love that lotus
and would get one in a heartbeat (if the ball and chain would let me) if you have never had the chance to drive a nice sports car you should take the chance, they can be a dream...
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. For the times that you aren't.
It's not just 0-60. It's the feel of sweet, beautiful torque whenever you give it gas. With some people, dare I say many people, it's not just about getting around. It's not about impressing someone else, it's about the smile on your face when you give it the beans.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. What a description. I actually smiled reading this

:hi:
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. I worked in ford dealerships , I drove the mustang cobra
they came back with in 2002 or 2003 . Yes it was fast and had torgue yet I hardly see to point to them here when freeways are packed and it's bumper to bumper. Or to watch the fuel gauge drop as fast as the tach rose.

I spent decades working around cars with people who talked nothing but cars and it got real boring real fast , they lived for their car or monster truck.

Then there are those who restore old casrs , fine it's a challenge and a hobby . What's to restore now a ford focus or taurus .

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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Who sits in traffic?
306HP two seater, no traffic.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. People who restore those cars don't commute in them
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blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. restoration is one thing , that's a hobby .
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. vehicles as a substitute for _________
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Not really, often it's much BETTER than sex
I think it has to do with control.
Over here in the Netherlands, and many other places, we have Carting.
Basically souped up go-carts that go about 30+ MPH around a very small circuit, and thus LOTS of torque and G-forces (REALLY FUN!)
Now scale that up to a REAL car!

It's the feel of being thrown back, making a tight corner, or even a lazy turn fast!

I think a lot of it is just a sense of control that we no longer have, and can tangibly feel!

There are many race tracks here in Europe, and there were at least two in the bay area, where I used to live.

Many tracks have a "track day" where you can pay to run around the track as fast as you can safely control yourself. That is any car, fast or slow round the track.

Many of these cars are for those track days. Slow driving most of the time, being responsible, etc, and then... VROOM! Pure control. You and the car...nothing else. Pure freedom.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. ah, I wasn't thinking "sex". Actually I was thinking "power".
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
17. possible cause ...
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
20. The Ronn Scorpion is what I think of when I think "sports car"

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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. I was interested in the new camaro, but my SO told me the
car is too masculine and I wouldn't look right driving it. lol. But that is what I was shooting for-the contrast.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. A lot of these cars are really good-looking and I'm happy to see them. I love the Challenger
and while I'm not a huge Chevy fan the new Camaro does catch my eye when I see it. Holla for the muscle cars!
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
28. Sigh. I wish people would learn what a Muscle Car is. All these cars are Pony Cars.
I suppose the current Challenger would be the closest thing to a Muscle car of those three listed, but the Mustang and Camaro are definitely still Pony cars. The quality of handling in these larger vehicles has certainly increased quite a bit since the 60s, but muscle cars certainly still put straightline performance ahead of handling. And a muscle car with IRS would have been considered sacrilege at one point. The current Challenger is just a 2 door version of the current Charger (which is itself a previous generation E-Class Mercedes platform with a Mopar engine in it). In the first generation of either car, the Charger was the muscle car and the Challenger was the Pony car. Nowadays, pony cars offer up a manual while almost no muscle cars do (which is why I'm willing to put the Challenger in muscle car territory). The now defunct GTO offered a manual, but I think its final iteration would more appropriately been considered a pony car even though they were one of the original muscle cars. A muscle car has to be built upon a lesser performing mid-size or full-size platform. The Mustang and Camaro are designed from the ground up as being performance cars with room for four. It would be nice if they had actual car people writing articles about cars at the WSJ.
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-12-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. You are Correct....
but would the American driving public buy a "Muscle Car" that weighed 4100Lb (Think 63 Chevy Impala SS with a 409/4-speed) the answer is no,Look at how miserably the late 90's Impala SS sold.

And the term Muscle Car is relative...If what you are saying is absolutely true than a '67 Chevelle is a pony car,But a'68 Chevelle is a Muscle Car,Like these...

1967 Chevelle...


1968 Chevelle...


as you can see the '68 is Much larger,heavier but both use the same engine/tranny Combos

so is it a Pony Car or a Muscle car?
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. The Chevelles were muscle cars.
Well, at least the ones with V8s. The point is that it's built upon a mid/full size platform and not from the ground up as a sporty vehicle like the Mustang/Camaro. And Americans do buy heavy muscle cars to an extent. The Caprice/Impala actually wasn't that bad of a seller and the 94 through 96 SS are still fairly prized today. I know quite a few police officers who believe they were the best police cruisers to this day. Before Pontiac was eliminated, they were having decent success with the G8 which I'd consider to be a muscle car. And Ford is now selling their new SHO which I'd consider to be a modern muscle car (even though it's a V6 with AWD). Even foreign car companies have adopted the formula. BMW has had long time success with its more powerful 5 series and M5 and Infinity has the M35/45.

Going back to the Chevelles, I'll take mine a 1970 454 SS LS6. Been my dream car since I was 12 or so.
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-13-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Good Choice! I perfer the leaner 66-67 SS
Edited on Fri Nov-13-09 09:58 PM by PJPhreak
With the 427,Any 427 with a M-21/22. a L78 396 wouldn't be a deal breaker either!
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