I've changed my mind. I'm against the bill as long as Stupak's misogynistic BS is still in it.

[Odin2005]

This is why: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6995035

I am fucking furious!!! Why is this BASTARD in our party? :grr:

[Forkboy]

1. I do believe it will be removed, but if not expect serious ugliness on the Left.

[xchrom]

3. i was ugly before i was on the Left.

now i'm on the Left and ugly.

[Forkboy]

17. Then we're friends in ugliness!

:hug:

[derby378]

2. I know it hurts...

...but I think you're doing the right thing. The well-being of women is non-negotiable. :hi:

[Odin2005]

4. I have a good friend who was raped a few months ago. So this is sure as hell...

...non-negotiable! :grr:

[derby378]

32. I am so sorry for your friend

Hope she's recovering okay. :hug:

[Odin2005]

33. She's doing better now.

She's physically disabled (has little motor use of her legs, though she still has feeling) and has some mental health issues (both stemming from being shaken as a toddler by a babysitter) and it's been really hard on her. :(

[sandnsea]

5. Here's The Capps Amendment

I wish I'd read it sooner. There's no reason this isn't sufficient to separate federal funding.

I would note, it appears to prevent the public option from providing abortions of choice though.

http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/Media/file/Markups/FullCmte/071709_Health_Reform/Capps.pdf

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Ugh. Why was it so important for him to have that 'forcible' distinction?

I guess to distinguish it from 'mild' rapes:

Raped while you were drunk or drugged.

Statutory rape.

Any rape where you didn't resist mightily.

Rapes of girls and women with slutty reputations who were dressed provocatively and clearly asking for it.

[Odin2005]

7. Bingo!

It's disgusting.

[demwing]

10. Wow, that's just foul

thankfully, the language never made it into the amendment.

[niyad]

24. "the only good rape victim is a dead one" as the police, etc, used to say

[ipaint]

8. Is this still true?

"None of the bills emerging from the House and Senate require insurers to cover all the elements of a standard gynecological "well visit," leaving essential care such as pelvic exams, domestic violence screening, counseling about sexually transmitted diseases, and, perhaps most startlingly, the provision of birth control off the list of basic benefits all insurers must cover. Nor are these services protected from "cost sharing," which means that, depending on what's in the bill that emerges from the Senate, and, later, the contents of a final bill, women could wind up having to pay for some of these services out of their own pockets. So far, mammograms and Pap tests are covered in every version of the legislation."

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091116/lerner

No birth control coverage in the mandatory basic package?

[sandnsea]

14. I think HHS has to define the benefits

I think the only reason abortion is defined is because of the federal funding issue. Otherwise, they'd just wait and let HHS hash it out.

[ipaint]

18. So no one knows what medically is covered in the basic plans

for anything at this point?

[sandnsea]

19. I wouldn't swear to it

but I don't think so. I think there are just some guidelines as to the pre-existing conditions and removing caps and annual limits, things like that. That's part of the reason they can't just flip a switch and enroll everybody the day after the bill is signed. There's a lot to work out, the exchange and the public option will have tiers. Some of the tiers will include dental and optical, iirc. It goes on from there. Then there's the long term care plan they're creating. A lot to figure out.

[ipaint]

23. I just spent some time looking it up.

Maternity care, mammograms, well baby, well child but no mention of birth control. There is quite a large panel to set up to look at specifics of coverage but none of the bills included birth control or were scored by cbo including it.
Something watch carefully. That would be another kick in the gut for working class and working poor women if it is not included.

[sandnsea]

26. Those are separate sections

The mammogram section relates to cancer and the child section relates to schip and children. The bill creates an Office of Women's Health too, which is another aspect of the bill that is fantastic, along with the office of minority health and improvements in indian health services.

What's defined in the health plans is a separate section and I still don't see where it requires anything specific as far as the exchange and public option go.

http://thomas.loc.gov

[ipaint]

27. I downloaded the pdf of 3962 and looked at section 222 titled

Essential Benefits Package defined.

[sandnsea]

28. Thanks!

Yes, it would be much better if birth control were added in that section. It's just too vague and undoubtedly the wingnuts will complain about birth control killing cells. I've already seen a few comments in that regard, Stupak doesn't go far enough for some of these nutballs.

[demwing]

9. Do you understand that that language is NOT in the amendment?

Are you saying that you are against the bill because Stupak is a fucking creep, even though his amendment doesn't have that language?

[Odin2005]

11. Yes.

The fucks need to be run out of town on a rail.

[demwing]

12. Well I'm with you half way - he's a fucking creep,

but healthcare must go forward. Don't you think maybe the amendment was a cheap ploy to turn women against the HCR bill?

[Odin2005]

13. I dunno, I just know that I am really pissed off right now.

[BeHereNow]

15. Can I tell you...I REALLY admire people who can change their minds-

Based on further investigation.
I wish that quality would go viral on DU...

BHN

[Odin2005]

29. Thank you.

:)

[Lars39]

16. Did you see this, too?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6996495

[Odin2005]

30. WTF?

:grr:

[Hidden Stillness]

20. The Bill is Not Worth Passing

Thank you for this thread; it makes me feel a lot better about recent things with males in the Democratic Party and here on DU. It was starting to feel like there was nothing but hate and lack of support.

I remember the markup for the pseudo-"health care" bill a few months ago, when it was live, for several hours, on C-SPAN. It was the House Committee chaired by Waxman. Over and over, "the good people" had to fight attempts by "Blue Dogs" to undercut any kind of public option, from cutting fees paid to doctors (so they will refuse patients as not worth it) to trying to keep that corporate-subsidy "Medicare" Advantage alive. Then there was a completely scary part of the markup, when Stupak colluded with Republicans, as a voting block, on watering down rape language--and Waxman supported them, and was going to add it to the bill!--until women Democrats objected, led by Lois Capps, with her own good Amendment which failed, and Diana DeGette. Then, Stupak and Republicans started again, and inserted that offensive language about how anyone who had "moral" objections to "anything" could refuse to do any medical procedure--and Waxman voted for it! This was also where Anthony Wiener of New York was ordered by Waxman not to offer the Weiner (single-payer) Amendment at the markup, claiming they would vote on it in the House, but Waxman and etc. killed it. It was a scary, disgusting, and distressing display.

I am against the bill, for many reasons, and do not think it is worth passing at all. They should scrap all this shit, which is no better than the "Medicare" Part D corporate-lobbyist scam, and dare to pass Medicare single-payer.

I actually remember when abortion first became legal Nationally (1973, I think), when they were paid for under all Federal, commercial and other insurance, and were even covered if on welfare--I remember the Michigan Department of Health covering them, our moderately liberal Republican Governor of that time, William Milliken, refusing to cut women's access to abortion on welfare (the Millikens campaigned for the Equal Rights Amendment, with the liberal feminist Democratic Lieutenant-Governor, Martha Griffiths), and our great head of the Mich. Dept. of Health who insured that poor women got abortion coverage under welfare benefits was a Catholic nun, the great Mary Agnes Mansour. I could cry just thinking about the change--the loss of liberty, step by step...

[pansypoo53219]

21. divide and conquer.

easy as pie.

[EFerrari]

22. It makes me feel so happy to know people are thinking about this.

Thanks. :loveya:

[Odin2005]

31. You are welcome!

:hi:

[niyad]

25. and some misogynistic cretin unrec'd this? thanks a heap

[niyad]

34. kick

[Odin2005]

35. Thank you!