Forcible Rapes

[babylonsister]

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2009/11/11/163324/23

Forcible Rapes

by BooMan
Wed Nov 11th, 2009 at 04:33:24 PM EST


What is the difference between rape and forcible rape? That's a question Bart Stupak wants you to know the answer to before you go trying to abort a pregnancy that has resulted from rape. He also wants your insurance company to ask you and your doctor whether your rape was really, truly forcible. If it wasn't, Stupak wants it to be illegal for your insurance company to pay for the procedure. This distinction is not in the Stupak-Pitts Amendment that recently passed in the House, but it was in a Pitts Amendment that passed the Energy & Commerce Committee last summer. Chairman Waxman managed to reintroduce it and kill it off.

However, all the Republicans voted for it, and so did Bart Stupak and a handful of other Democrats. So, I ask you, what is the difference between rape and forcible rape? Is this language an indelicate way of banning coverage of abortions for pregnancies resulting from 'consensual' statutory rape? Or, are we supposed to decide when a rape is non-forcible? If the woman is passed out and doesn't struggle or verbally object, is that non-forcible rape? How would an insurance company go about making sure that your rape was forcible? Who's word is good enough? Do you need photographs of lacerations or something?

Why do we have to put up with these morons?

[valerief]

1. I know. We should all move to Europe. nt

[October]

3. No, they should be voted out of office -- permanently!!!

Tired of stupid men. Not all men... just the stupid ones who seem to occupy higher office in order to control women.

[valerief]

8. Voted? Chased!!!! nt

[derby378]

13. And not with torches and pitchforks, either

We've got new shit to chase them with now. :evilgrin:

[MattBaggins]

28. Shotguns?

Or are you talking shoulder mounted missile launchers?

[valerief]

38. Pit bulls would work, since they won't outlaw them. nt

[paulsby]

22. yet more american exceptionalism 101

DU style...

"europe is better"

[Ilsa]

2. Goddammit. I hate this fucking shit. I hate that we have to

explain this fucking crap to these goddamn fucking idiots.

I was raped once upon a time. There wasn't a weapon, but I consider it forcible. I'd consider any event where a woman isn't permitted to consent "rape", and whether it is forcible or not is of no consequence.

[NikolaC]

37. I Agree

Rape is a forceable act, PERIOD. Rape is an act of violence regardless of whether or not someone was beaten or "put up a fight".

[havocmom]

4. If we drug him, implant an embryo on his spleen and stitch him up

would that be forcible or would he have to carry to term and raise because no actual force was used to impregnate the SOB?

This shit of his opens EVERY case up to tormenting the woman and relying on the whims of others in deciding. It sure as hell will make it harder to get women to go after justice.

Fucking ass, he is. Forcibly pregnant he should be made.

Yeah, I am pissed.

[csziggy]

29. [phone]

[tblue]

5. Stu-Pitts is positively 19th century! Why do these MEN get to decide?

We're not going backwards. No way!

[cynatnite]

6. Aaarrgh!

FUCKERS! :grr:

[jgraz]

7. Can someone please primary this dickweed?

Stupak cannot be the only viable Democrat in that district. :banghead:

[AlienGirl]

23. In THAT district? Yeah, unfortunately, he can... nt

[ThomCat]

9. Holy Shit! That is up there among the most offensive stuff

I have ever seen come from a politician, and that says a lot given the volume and quality of shit we have all seen come from DC in the 8 years under Bush. :puke:

Why does our party tolerate this kind of horrible anti-women attitude within our party?

[FLyellowdog]

10. Does the rape have had to be proven in a court of law?nt

[derby378]

11. This is a wakeup call to any DUer bitching about Dems and "ideological purity"

Actually, it's like getting splashed in the face with a pint of freezing cold water first thing in the morning.

This is INCOMPATIBLE with Democratic Party values and ethics, no matter how conservative a Democrat might be.

I dare any DUer to step forward and defend the actions of this freak.

[Mz Pip]

12. talk about micromanaging

This is nuts. Do there have to be bruises? Gunshot wounds? Rope burns?

Dear Congresscritter Stupak,

Find something else to go all OCD about.

[Danger Mouse]

14. There is only one possible reaction to this.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[undeterred]

15. Does he want to be castrated or have a forcible penectomy?

Those are his options.

[bluetrain]

21. Honestly, that's the closest -- and it's still quite a ways off -- one can come to compare a forced

pregnancy. Enough with the Viagara jokes.

[Odin2005]

16. WTF? ALL rape is forcible by definition!

FUCK YOU STUPAK! GO STRAIGHT TO HELL YOU RAPE-APOLOGIST PIECE OF SHIT!!! EAT SHIT AND DIE YOU PILE OF SLIME!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Bucky]

17. There's a dent in my brick wall with this ass hat's name on it.

:banghead:

[TransitJohn]

18. It's like Roe v. Wade was never issued to these fuckers.

Seriously, a woman's right to make decisions about her reproductive system is protected by her right to privacy. What is so fucking hard to accept to these zealots? They're worse than the fucking Taliban.

[blues90]

19. there is no difference . What gives anyone the right to determine

what any victim decide to do. As a male . if I were female and raped there is now way on earth anyone would dictate to me what I can do. Fuck that . If you are shot then I suppose you should net be allowed treatment because you got in the way of a bullet . it's the same damn thing.

[saracat]

20. What the hell are the Democrats doing to allow stuff like this withour even a whimper?

This guy needs to be eliminated from the cuacus, permanently and immediately. There should be zero tolerance for this, but there will be those that whine about how we "need" him to keep the majority. And i can't think WHY we need the majority if it allows stuff like this!

[MattBaggins]

31. Normally it is being very smart on the issue

Usually it is best to be silent and let the repubs make idiots out of themselves, aka the Terri Schiavo debacle. It is better to be to mildly talk about pro-choice vs pro-life. Reality is you can't go off half cocked trying to outshout the pro-lifers. If you do this we appear to be "pro-abortion" vs. "pro-life" and that is a losing battle by a huge ginormas margin.

The true wide majority of at least 70% of this country(I made that number up) are in the "safe, legal and rare" crowd. Most people find using something as personal and saddening as the need for abortion to be an incredibly distasteful topic to turn into such a public circus. Let the other side rant and make fools of themselves. We have to be soft spoken and sane in response.

Now that all said I can not speak for why Stupak is so Stupid. I really don't know what his constituents are like and why he is such a dumbass that he wants to act like a repub on this issue.

The key point is rational pro-choice beats the lunatic pro-life but a fight fire with fire pro-abortion stance would go down in flames.

[saracat]

52. What I meant was what were they "doing" allowing this amendment to even be attached.

And while I agree with you about letting the GOP hang themselves, that doesn't include allowing such legislation to be put in a position that it might pass.Thank God for Waxman, otherwise this would have been a "done deal".OTOH, sometimes we are too polite and distasteful as some may find abortion, it has to be mentioned and protected.the "safe , legal and rare " crowd would do better presenting it as what it is a medical procedure sometimes necessary to better a womans life.

[niyad]

24. kick

[Maraya1969]

25. Here is a transcript of the ammendment and it just says "rape"

http://usliberals.about.com/od/healthcare/a/StupakAmendment.htm

Unless I am missing something

[noamnety]

26. Yes, I think you are missing something.

"Chairman Waxman managed to reintroduce it and kill it off."

[Maraya1969]

49. I re-read the op's link and he did present an amendment last summer

where he only wanted insurance companies to pay for "forcible" rape and all the Republicans voted for it. And then you are right Waxman got it kicked off.

[noamnety]

27. That needs to be a full page ad in his district

and a commercial, come reelection time.

[Peacetrain]

30. I mean sometimes you just have to wonder if these guys have cotton instead of gray matter between

their ears..

[R. P. McMurphy]

32. k & r /nt

[enigmatic]

33. Stupak is a piece of shit

Seriously.

[lunatica]

34. FUCK!

Sorry. That's all I can say... FUCK!

[Cass]

35. Evidently if you aren't brutalized, bleeding and half dead, it's not really forcible

to him. Just saying no isn't enough...it must be determined if it is "really, truly forcible".

This is just sickening.

[Echo In Light]

36. Always seek the Silver Lining!

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cass]

41. Brain dead and callous.

Welcome to DU!

[freakydeeky]

39. don't be so quick, what happened in sf shows its not just the right..

banning declawing in sf and berkeley, people with the moral crusades against this or that can't seem to limit their opinions on such stuff to themselves, instead trying to force it on everyone else. like it or not, its two sides of the same coin.

[tekisui]

42. De-clawing cats is the other side of distinguishing rapes?

What the fuck are you talking about?

[David Zephyr]

43. What else does one need to know.

Thanks for this posting, babylonsister.

[Hippo_Tron]

44. So basically Stupak wants to know if it was "rape" or "rape-rape"

What a fucking low life.

[gleaner]

45. This reminds me of a senator from ...

the south (please help me if you remember his name) who said that he wouldn't believe a woman was raped unless she was beaten "bloody."

It is too bad that these guys have no personal experience with a rape. Whether it is a date rape where the woman is drugged, or she is too drunk to consent to sex, or too frightened to cry out or fight, it is still rape unless she wants to have sex. There are no gray areas for me.

I don't understand people like this. Men can be raped too. Do they think it would be an enlightening experience or something? Rape is a violent crime no matter how the rapist commits it. It hurts the body of the victim and tries to destroy her soul and her feeling of power over her own life.

For me the Stupak amendment itself is a kind of rape. It is a rape of our ability to control our own bodies, make our own choices and protect our privacy from invasion, and ourselves from violation when we are most vulnerable. This final crap would turn us even more into chattels which are not supposed to have self determination, feelings we can express or one scintilla of control.

That amendment needs to be killed, buried and then have the ground sowed with salt so that it can never come back again. Unfortunately, the same fools who came up with this will just keep coming up with this kind of stuff over and over again like a bunch of deranged hyenas who can't wait until everything female dies so that they can gnaw at our corpses.

[Lars39]

46. When these guys say stuff like that, it makes me think they are very familiar

with date rape....that they have raped women.

[gleaner]

48. I think you are right ....

They probably have. I was talking about the possibility that someone could rape their own sorry persons. I wonder if they would be quite so comfortable with the idea of rape then?

[Odin2005]

55. Frightening that there are so many of these people around.

And people wondered why my friend refused to go out in public by herself for 2 months after she was raped. This shit is why. A lot of people seem to think it's perfectly OK to exploit a vulnerable physically disabled mentally ill woman, apparently. :puke:

[spanone]

47. the department of redundancy department

[fascisthunter]

50. this person really is warped

I am tired of these mental fuck-ups in position of power... they don't have a point of view, they are too fucked up in the head to even think straight and their thinking always seems predatory and amoral.

[B Calm]

51. A forcible rape was when Bush stole the election and cons said get over it!

[lukasahero]

53. Do you know how dismissive it is to people who have actually been raped

to have a thread like this minimized by your stupid, insensitive assertion?

[B Calm]

56. We were all victims of rape.

KMA

[lukasahero]

57. If you ever had been, you'd know the fucking difference. eom

[B Calm]

58. kma

[JonQ]

54. I'm guessing it means the difference between

voluntary but statutory rape and everything else.

Seems irrelevant to me. If you believe abortion is immoral then it should be immoral all the time.