Columbia Professor Punches Lady Colleague In the Face

[imdjh]

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/11/columbia_professor_punches_lad.html

According to police reports, 59-year-old Columbia architecture professor Lionel McIntyre punched a female Columbia employee in the face Friday night. Now he's in trouble.
Apparently McIntyre, who is black, and Camille Davis, a white theater production manager, got into a heated debate about "white privilege" at Toast, a Columbia-area bar. McIntyre, who often engages bar patrons in uncomfortable debates, first shoved Davis. When someone tried to break it up, McIntyre punched Davis.
"The punch was so loud, the kitchen workers in the back heard it over all the noise," bar back Richie Velez, 28, told 'The Post.' "I was on my way over when he punched Camille and she fell on top of me."
McIntyre, who worked in civil rights organizing in the South in the sixties, called it a "very unfortunate event." Agreed.


Read more: Columbia Professor Punches Lady Colleague In the Face -- Daily Intel http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/11/columbia_professor_punches_lad.html#ixzz0WZT2v7TO

[slackmaster]

1. The question we must all ask is: Was it a terrorist attack or not?

:hide:

Apparently McIntyre, who is black, and Camille Davis, a white theater production manager, got into a heated debate about "white privilege"...

Evidently the professor does not respect the privilege of white women not to get punched in the face.

[LaydeeBug]

115. snort.

:rofl:

[yurbud]

169. the right and their fellow travelers in the Democratic party would call a fart a biological attack

and use it as an excuse to invade a cabbage producing country (or whatever they claimed the fart smelled like).

[Bonobo]

2. Anyone punching anyone is wrong.

This is no more wrong than a bigger person punching a smaller person, if in fact he was larger than she.

[imdjh]

4. No mention of the racial aspect in this article at all

http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2009/11/10/associate-professor-assaults-arts-school-employee-local-bar

[WriteDown]

20. I've seen enough John Wayne movies to know this isn't true...

:)

[imdjh]

28. I would agree with that. Anyone who wishes he hadn't decked someone at least once...

.... is probably lying. But as a rule, it's that one didn't deck a person who had power over him.

[951-Riverside]

3. Don't Chris Brown me Bro!

McIntyre, <...> called it a "very unfortunate event." ...gee how noble of him. It takes a real man to sucker punch a woman in the face. BTW, how old is the victim?

[XemaSab]

51. According to her Linkedin profile

she graduated college in 1991. So that would make her around 40, no?

[bertman]

135. Wait wait wait, 951. Punching and sucker-punching are two very different things.

Do you know he sucker-punched her, or are you just using that term for effect?

[Moosepoop]

185. It was the observation of a witness to the event:

McIntyre had squabbled with Davis several weeks earlier over issues involving race, witnesses said. As soon as the professor threw the punch Friday, server Rob Dalton and another employee tossed him out.

"It was a real sucker punch," Dalton said.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/prof_busted_in_columbia_gal_punch_JmsXQ3NzaAt8uG6uUySGTN#ixzz0WgRS09VK

[Blue-Jay]

5. Assholes and booze are always a great combination.

I hope he does some jail time.

[imdjh]

6. It's those God damned southerners.

[tammywammy]

8. Agreed. n/t

[boobooday]

7. He'll never make full professor now

Hope he gets fired.

[imdjh]

9. Which in a way is a shame, because he teaches something that's actually useful.

Unlike some other professors who just run their mouths about shit people can figure out for themselves.

[-..__...]

14. Sounds like he makes it a regular habit...

of running his mouth...

"who often engages bar patrons in uncomfortable debates",

[imdjh]

16. Every bar has its blowhard. Except the ones I no longer go to. nt

[-..__...]

27. I've known/met plenty of bar room blowhards in my time...

but even the most obnoxious, unruly and combative ones I've been acquainted with would have never punched a woman in the face like that... at least not in full view of other patrons.

[imdjh]

31. I have worked in many bars, full time in my youth and part time later on. I have seen two.....

.... count them, TWO physical incidents in all those experiences. Once a guy punched another guy and a scuffle took place. The other, a guy walked in the bar after being shot with a shot gun (I hyperventilated upon seeing this). I worked in two redneck bars, and never so so much as a slap or shouting match. Fucked up yuppies are unpredictable though.

[WriteDown]

21. Its odd, usually the ones that run their mouths are the ones to get hit. nt

[slackmaster]

23. No doubt he thinks his problems in getting along with people are all someone else's fault

He's a dick.

[boobooday]

26. uh-oh

Hope you're not talking about me!

LOL

[Dreamer Tatum]

22. He'll probably be provost before long nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

10. I can hear the cognitive dissonance from here.

:popcorn:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

64. LOL

Move along....nothing to see here....

[lumberjack_jeff]

152. See?

I'll share some of my popcorn.

[-..__...]

11. Maybe Obama will invite them over for a beer?

[imdjh]

13. Paging Wendy Murphy to claim that Camille Davis isn't actually white or the prof isn't black...

.... depending upon who her client is of course.

"The fact is, she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say, necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' - Wendy Murphy jumping through hoops in the Gates incident.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

12. Shoulda Smoked A Joint Instead

Alcohol is poison and encourages violence.

[WriteDown]

18. Any sort of combustion is poison...

Ethanol is used in many medical applications. Combustion, not so much.

[XemaSab]

55. A lot of meds are inhaled

:shrug:

[WriteDown]

60. Inhaled is not combustion. nt

[Rebubula]

15. Angry Jerk

From what I can see on this on other reports...the assailant (male) sucker punched the victim (female) after a heated discussion.

Sucker punch is a no-no in my world - a man hitting a woman (chivalry is NOT dead to many of us)is a COMPLETE FUCKING NO-NO!

Regardless of what was being discussed and what was said - you DO NOT sucker punch a woman.

This guy is a loser and an asshole in my book

[bertman]

136. Do you know the difference between a punch and a sucker-punch, Rebubula??

Before you start ranting about a sucker-punch you should be sure 1) that's what the article said (I didn't see anything about a sucker-punch; 2) you know what it is.

[MilesColtrane]

175. It's a sucker punch because a man isn't supposed to lay his hands on a woman.

...ever

I'm pretty sure she wasn't expecting him to swing on her.

This guy needs to be fired, do some time inside, and take anger management.

[bertman]

182. Wrong. A sucker punch is delivered as in the classic "tap the unsuspecting victim on the

shoulder, and when he/she turns toward you, bust them in the chops." A straight-up punch from the front is NOT a sucker punch.

Any male who is having a HEATED argument with another male will (or at least should) know that he'd better be ready for a punch. I guess the woman in question was not experienced with this type of situation.

I agree with the last sentence, for sure.

[Warpy]

17. He sounds like a total jerk

and one would hope AA meetings are added to the anger management classes in his plea bargain.

[imdjh]

24. Alcohol is well, um bad.

[Warpy]

30. It disinhibits people

He might be able to avoid hitting women when he's sober, but get him buzzed and the brakes fail.

Some disinhibition is great, especially for shy people at parties. However, disinhibiting an angry jerk is not a good idea.

[imdjh]

19. How nice, someone unrec'd

[slackmaster]

25. I just brought it back up to 0 for you because of the reply I'm replying to

:hi:

[supernova]

29. He sounds like an asshole who looks for trouble

if he "regularly engages bar patrons in uncomfortable debates."

Some confrontation is meaningful and useful. Staring down a racist sheriff holding dogs and water cannon on you is useful. Goading patrons in a bar for no reason is not.

I think he needs anger management and possibly AA.

What a shame and I hope she charges him.

[left coaster]

32. I suppose the media will want to frame it as a racial issue?

..rather than call it what it is... another incident of violence against a woman.

[mamaleah]

33. It's both.

Look, be honest. Had it been a white male professor punching an African American female professor, this board would be lit up with screams of racism before anyone even cared that a woman was attacked.

[DatManFromNawlins]

59. Yup

White cop arrests tired, beligerant AA professor, it's white racism and hundreds of white folks need to come running out the woodwork to show just how sensitive they are to racial injustice in this country.

Black professor punches white woman, must be pent up frustration, one thread, and people are curious about what the white woman did to get the black man to punch her in the face.

[lukasahero]

67. I hate to say it but

it certainly speaks to how women are viewed on this forum. I mean, hell, she wasn't even raped and people are wondering what she did to deserve it. :(

[Beacool]

123. Were you around here during the primaries?

Enough said.......

x(

[lukasahero]

127. I've been here since 2004

I survived the 'bitch' wars. But I did largely bow out during the primaries for reasons I'm sure you can well imagine.

x( indeed

[Beacool]

137. Yeah, I understand,

It was vile over here.

;(

[TicketyBoo]

176. And please don't forget

that we have to try to understand where the professor was coming from, how discrimination against him is probably the cause of the incident. We need to take into account his motivation. Yeah, don't forget about that.

[Beacool]

122. Too true.

You would also see Al Sharpton on every news channel decrying the incident. Since it's the reverse, crickets...........

:eyes:

The guy sounds like he's a real jerk, his race is irrelevant.

:-(

[Gator_Matt]

42. umm... it was a racial issue.

He was complaining about white privilege. When she didn't agree strongly enough, he sucker punched her. He should be fired immediately.

If a white professor had been complaining about affirmative action with a black woman who wasn't agreeing strongly enough then slugged her, you can be sure it would be on the front page of CNN.

[left coaster]

91. Perhaps I should clarify my concern..

Clearly it is both, but I wondered if the racial issue would be the only angle pushed, thus diminishing the violence against women issue here..

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

102. That's Exactly What It Was.

I know you want it to be framed in your own terms, but framing it as a racial issue is exactly what is warranted. Fact is, he had such animosity and bitterness inside of him due to what he perceives (to many degrees accurately) as white privilege, that it burned him up to such a degree that gender, career, etc were no longer relevant whatsoever. It is likely the racism alone that fueled his hatred, not misogyny.

[WI_DEM]

34. I think the professor needs to take anger management classes

he can have "heated debates" without resorting to violence (pushing & hitting)

[vadawg]

108. yup and those classes should be provided to him as he resides in the county jail

probuably should also be counted as a hate crime....

[Nikki Stone1]

35. delete

.

[dustbunnie]

36. What a "man."

:eyes:

I'm familiar with Toast. "Where everyone leaves toasted." Had some good happy hour discussions there myself as a student. Good wings.

In this case:

Man argues with a woman and another man over white privilege, claiming the man isn't doing enough about it.

Man shoves and sucker punches woman, then takes a swing at the other man, knocking his glasses off.

Woman is afraid to press charges, not wanting to "make waves." Other witnesses also are afraid of coming forward, lest they appear to be making waves as well. Man is released - no bail required.

Man who argues with woman about white privilege, is a key member of the project to expand Columbia to the west. Also, the gentrification of Harlem which continues to result in the displacement of longtime residents, many if not most of whom, are black.

Man who denounces racial privilege is okay with serving beat downs on those physically weaker, displacing those who are financially in a position of weakness, and is fine with claiming class privilege in order to evade punishment.

[dugaresa]

93. wow what a charmer

[stray cat]

37. The poor guy he must have just lost it - who can blame him

after all he was probably stressed out.

[MellowDem]

125. Yeah, who can blame any man that punches a woman?

They're all just stressed out, man, don't worry about it!

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[get the red out]

39. Misogyny anyone?

I wonder how this jackass would fare in a discussion about misogyny? Woman dares argue with a man so he beats her, good job, that guy really believes in people having "rights". Talk about a guy that has zero tolerance for someone with an opposing view. Great at finding solutions too. Jackass!

[Bonobo]

41. LOL.

So when a man attacks a man, it must be misandry, right?

[get the red out]

52. He certainly is a misogynist

If he had struck another man he would have been an asshole. Perhaps you are familiar with the term?

We both know what is being discussed here. A woman who gets punched by a man because he disagrees with her words is definitely misogyny because she is biologically unable in the vast majority of cases to defend herself. It is a man using his physical strength to stop her from having an alternative opinion. He shuts the weaker woman up with his animal strength. Misogyny.

If he punches another man he's an asshole, violent, and needs to be arrested as well. But in far more cases, the other man would have been much better matched in strength with the asshole and quite likely to have defended himself. It is a weak man who needs to commit violence against a woman, chances are with a man such as this professor it would have had to have been a tiny man or some disabled man for him to have attacked another male. Weak, cowardly, sniveling misogynist.

[Bonobo]

54. What about when a big guy hits a little guy. It happens ALL the time. ALL the time.

Small men live in a world where they are often threatened with physical violence from bigger men.

Furthermore, men on men violence is much more condoned, especially in a 'bar fight' scenario.

[get the red out]

56. I do not condone it, and as I said, he would be an asshole

An arrest should happen for any violence. I do not condone violence, I'm a LIBERAL.

[dustbunnie]

57. I don't know of anyone who has respect for a big guy beating on a small one.

Or on a smaller teenager - a better comparison with a woman. Most people I know would sneer and have nothing but disdain for some big guy who beat on someone smaller. That would make him a pathetic coward.

Male on male violence isn't condoned. Hit someone first, and you go to jail.

[Bonobo]

61. So my point is that he could be a complete asshole out-of-control drunk...

But that it doesn't make him a misogynist any more than an out-of-control big drunk hitting a smaller male would be a hater of small men.

[dustbunnie]

86. That's pears to peaches, really. Most people don't "hate" members of their own gender.

When they do, it's often because the victim doesn't behave as they're supposed to. Like men who are thin and effeminate for instance, inspire hatred because they seem feminine.

So your point is that it's possible that this jerk saw her as a complete equal and therefore decided to punch her lights out, just as he would a man. I guess that's possible. However, pretty much all men know that most women are no match for them in a physical fight, and a blow that a man would easily survive, could mean death for a woman. Even drunken assholes tend to know this.

To precipitate an attack on a woman anyway, would seem to speak of special hate. Not to mention, as the professor of a university that must be ever vigilant to discourage violence toward women on campus, he seems to be sending the message out to young men, that the violence is really alright. That too implies a special kind of hatred.

[elehhhhna]

90. Yeppers! I had a "boss" who was very angry and jealous of me b/c

I sold circles around him and his ego couldn't handle it. He was such an ass that when the Real Boss was out, he'd pretend to punch me but pull his punch right before he connected. IIRC he did this twice (I was shocked -- not usually speechless, but definitely in this case) when I told him that next time I would gladly step into that punch so he'd be fired as he was being hauled off to jail. He stopped. Coward.

[bertman]

138. You have highlighted a conundrum, get the red out. If women want equality with men, what

is to keep them from getting their faces punched in a bar by an angry patron? It happens to men all the time. Argument ensues. One guy punches the other.

To me, this incident just shows that women have finally attained true equality.

As a matter of fact, I am amazed that we are hearing these so-called women's equality types railing because she got punched. I'm sure that she felt like she was immune from being punched just because she was a woman in a public place and he was a guy. Bad judgment.

I've heard that he's a misogynist, an asshole, weak, cowardly, sniveling. What if he's five feet eight, one hundred fifty pounds and she's six feet, one eighty and has a brown belt in karate? Is he still a misogynist, asshole, weak, cowardly, sniveling.

I know plenty of women who are strong as hell and who I would prefer not to fight, given another option.

Enlighten yourself, get the red out, and join the 21st century. Women are not the weaker sex. They are equals to men. Remember?

[Gwendolyn]

144. This dumb-ass rationalization has already been covered in this thread. Fail. n/t

[bertman]

147. Would you care to step outside and settle this, Gwen? But first, have you had any

martial arts training? Are you carrying brass knuckles or heat?

If not, my feminist ass will kick your feminist ass into yesterday for calling my rationalization "dumb-ass".

:hide:

[Gwendolyn]

153. I'll step outside with you -- but only if we bring the champagne and nachos with us.

:)

Look, I'll be the first to say that some feminists make outlandish statements and demands that are enough to cause any normal human to go :wow: I think my posts on DU reflect what I think about that. But answering the outlandishness with more outlandishness, i.e. advocating equality of the sexes through male/female brawling... come on.

[bertman]

158. Deal. I've never tried champagne with nachos, but what the hey!

By now you have probably figured out that I was doing some serious chain-jerking on gettheredout. But I was also being somewhat semi-serious because of what you say about "outlandish statements and demands . . . ".

I do not approve of resorting to violence when words fail. My philosophy is to try tact and diplomacy until all avenues are exhausted. After that, who knows?

:hi:

[Gwendolyn]

167. Margaritas are good too. :-)

Yeah, I had a feeling some of the comments in this thread are a reaction to what is oft posted here. Fair enough.

But violence is never a good option, except in cases of self-defense. It accomplishes little, especially when your opponent is at a physical disadvantage and potentially pregnant. It's especially pathetic coming from someone who represents an institution that is supposed to encourage debate over violence, and whose own actions stand to influence those of the young people who attend CU. Violence against women/rape are issues that affect all women attending universities. How nice for a professor to send out the message that if women verbally disagree with you, using her as a punching bag is appropriate. Ech.

[bertman]

183. I'll drink to that, Senora/Senorita!

[get the red out]

151. So liberals are to be "pro violence" now

Great! So lets say its just equal rights when a man punches out his wife for burning his dinner, he might have punched her out if she were a he and it was a gay marriage, right?

Lets just ignore reality and say that being a good liberal is to suppor all violence everywhere in the name of equality and freedom. Yeeeee-Haaaaa!!! Lets go puch some bitches in the bars, just cause we CAN!!!!!

[TicketyBoo]

177. Not really sure about that argument.

Maybe "equal rights" means the equal right to get punched in a bar fight?

(I am a woman, and I stay out of bars, for the most part.)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

103. You Really Think That's What It Boils Down To?

I think that's what you want it to boil down to. In reality, it was far more likely to be racism itself that fueled the incident, with little misogynistic motivations. If the argument had gotten just as heated between him and another man, is it likely the punch would've still been thrown? I don't have any reason to believe otherwise.

[get the red out]

154. Punching women is ok if she makes a MAN of another race mad?

Boy there's some good liberal thinking. By GAWD if some white bitch makes a man mad she deserves what she gets. Since when did a man punching a woman NOT qualify as misogyny?

I bet you would think it was misogyny if the puncher was white.

I can't believe people on this thread, the man has an equal right to be called an asshole no matter his color.

[lukasahero]

160. "I bet you would think it was misogyny if the puncher was white."

You don't know the poster you're responding to, do you? ;)

There is hardly an instance in the world where OMC would declare the situation borne of misogyny.

[JerseygirlCT]

172. And someone with that little control of his temper

is entrusted to teach?

Hope that's the end of that career.

[Darth_Kitten]

40. Unfortunate?

Damn abusive I say.

[Echo In Light]

43. Perhaps alongside his professional & legal troubles, her husband (?) might mop the floor w/him

Cause if some macho dick struck my wife, that fucker wouldn't enjoy his life much afterward.

[dontfollowmeb]

45. +1

[niyad]

191. welcome to DU

[Mugu]

66. That's what I was sitting here thinking.

If some asshole hits my ladyfriend it would be best for all concerned if he was put in jail. Otherwise, sooner or later I'm going to find him and we're going to spend some "quality" time together.

[Echo In Light]

72. Exactly. And it's not as though I generally condone violence, but if it's a matter of "punching" a w

... a woman, than that, in my view, is grounds for, or, at least, would invariably result in, the perp getting a dose of what he's dished out.

[niyad]

192. female here, and if some asshole hit any of my friends in my presence, he would be on the receiving

end of my purse--and object known to strike fear into the hearts of grown men.

[Mugu]

196. Hitting him with your purse is fine,

if it has a paving brick in it.

[TicketyBoo]

179. Personally,

I wouldn't want my husband going to jail because he did some sort of retribution on someone who attacked me.

Why make my life even worse?

No, let the testosterone settle down a bit.

[WeDidIt]

44. Prison time

Battery is a felony.

[Xenotime]

48. Maybe the woman should get prison time too for a racial hate crime..

I'm just saying..

:shrug:

[Darth_Kitten]

49. WHY?

Because you just cannot admit that violence against women is wrong? There always has to be a reason why a woman gets beaten?
Sexism really isn't a problem in society?

What?

[DatManFromNawlins]

50. No

It's because her face might have bruised his poor little fists.

[Darth_Kitten]

116. Oh, ha ha.

n/t

[juno jones]

58. There is nothing in the story to suggest she was racist

or anything but in the wrong place in the wrong time with an angry drunk who had a past history of similar belligerant 'conversations'.

[kelly1mm]

62. And what crime did she allegedly commit? Words are not crimes - yet. nt

[slackmaster]

63. What crime would that be?

Disagreeing with a person of color?

[mamaleah]

69. Really? Really? So if the victim is white, they were asking for it?

Is that what you are saying? Your attempt to be super uber PC sensitive is making you blind.

[TicketyBoo]

180. Blindness

is often a result of PC-correctness gone awry, I've found.

[WeDidIt]

73. I named his crime

Name her crime. Nothing in the article suggests she committed a crime.

[JonQ]

216. She made a black man angry enough to hit her

since individual black folks can't simply be violent jerks it has to be her fault.

Now if it was a white guy then he'd be to blame for his actions. And he should go to jail.

If it was a white guy and a black woman then just hang him on the spot.

A crime is only committed when you have the right racial composition of victim/perp. Otherwise it was at most a misunderstanding.

:sarcasm:

[cali]

83. Now that's a completely batshit crazy comment, honey. congrats.

[ArbustoBuster]

143. That's the dumbest thing I've heard all week.

And I watched a few minutes of Lou Dobbs, so that's saying something.

Congratulations. You out-stupided Lou Dobbs.

[paulsby]

74. in most states it's a misdemeanor

are you referring to this state in particular.

in my state, fwiw, it's not even called battery, but "battery" is consistent with many penal codes.

[Mari333]

46. coward. bully. period.

sue the shit out of him. hit him in the pocketbook. throw him in jail .

[Darth_Kitten]

47. But, but, but, a mere, useless female got in the way of his EGO!!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[XemaSab]

53. Here's McIntyre:

[Fire1]

68. Nice lookin brother. n/t

[WI_DEM]

70. yeah, too bad he beats up on women.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mamaleah]

75. If a man is incapable of having a heated debated, he isn't much of a man.

Can't handle someone disagreeing with you? Punch them and then claim white privilege invoked by your victim made you do it! Nice use of girlfriend too.


So, had it been a white male and African American female would you wonder the same?

[Fire1]

76. I think I was pretty clear. As trite as it may sound it DOES

and HAS happened regardless of color or race.

[Bonobo]

77. nt

[mamaleah]

78. Sorry.

There is what, one thread about this? Switch the races and tell me how many threads there would be.

Also, when did it start becoming ok to hit women again? I missed the memo. I guess my little woman self better watch my mouth and keep in line!

[Fire1]

80. I imagine you already do, if for no other reason than common

courtesy, self-respect and respect of others.

[mamaleah]

113. So at a minimum the prof lacks respect for others. He's not a man at all, but sniveling

POS who needs to hit women to get his point across.

[niyad]

194. so, women have to watch their mouths out of respect for others? what freaking planet do you inhabit

self-respect means keeping your mouth shut? common courtesy means keeping your mouth shut?

unless you have forgotten the sarcasm icon in these posts, you have a seriously skewed view of the world. I pity the women in your life.

[-..__...]

107. Cut the prof some slack...

he was just keeping his pimp hand strong.

[Number23]

189. "he was just keeping his pimp hand strong."

You need to get your ass out of here with this bullshit.

Now I'm beginning to understand why REAL stories of racism and racial discrimination get NOWHERE on this damn site but this stupid bullshit gets almost 200 responses.

[burning rain]

79. Plus, Chris Brown hit a "sista"...

While McIntyre just hit a "white bitch," eh?

[Fire1]

81. I believe that's spelled, "sistER." If you read the interactions

correctly, I stated, "regardless of color or race."

[burning rain]

87. Both "sister" & "sista" are correct in this context. Don't be thick.

And I'm sure you know I wasn't referring to your lame, belated attempt at ass-covering in reply #76.

[Fire1]

88. Hey, if you want to make my statement race related,

be my guest. I'm not thick as much as you are patronizing. I don't have to cover my ass. I say what I mean and mean what I say, so STEP OFF!!

[burning rain]

99. Thanks! I will be your guest.

And evidently you agree with me, having seen the need to back-pedal into race neutral territory after implying the woman had a punch coming for taking white privilege for granted.

[Fire1]

111. It could have just as easily been gender privilege or BOTH. n/t

[burning rain]

114. So it's good to put a woman in her place with a shove & a punch in the face?

You keep digging!

[Fire1]

148. It depends on the circumstances, imo. n/t

[lukasahero]

150. What 'circumstances' do you deem appropriate

to use physical violence to 'put a woman in her place'?

[Fire1]

163. Self defense, physical assault (slapping etc.), spitting and verbal

abuse or assault, i.e., the N word, etc.

[Gwendolyn]

164. Beating people for verbal abuse will put you in jail. You sure are hardcore though. n/t

[burning rain]

168. Baseless speculation on your part, as regards how Davis acted, but you carry on, genius.

.

[Fire1]

184. The question was hypothetical, genius.

[burning rain]

186. Nice admission you can't speak credibly to the case at hand, sport.

.

[burning rain]

165. Great response, genius.

"Depends on the circumstances" would only fit as a reply to half the posts at DU.

[dustbunnie]

82. Of course he was provoked. She opened her big mouth and gave him grief for a text msg.

That girl just didn't stop nagging him about getting a text from another woman so he was forced to shut her up by beating the crap out of her. Same thing really. Two troublesome women.

[Fire1]

84. My bad. Didn't hear that on the interview with Rhiana. I DID

understand her to say that he had been "testing the waters" (shoving and pushing) long before that happened. In which case, she should have seen the hand writing on the wall and LEFT HIS ASS!!

[dustbunnie]

89. Well according to your ethical standards, it's Rhianna who deserved to be beaten.

Apparently Rhianna had her own issues with violence and wasn't averse to smacking Chris. It's rumored that she smacked him first that night in the car. The woman at Toast had no such history with the Professor Smackdown, and it seems that he goaded her into a discussion he couldn't handle. It's scary that you or anyone else would come onto a progressive forum and advocate the beating of those who are weaker because they agreed to participate in a verbal debate with someone who turned out to be a vicious fuck or a disgusting drunk.

[Fire1]

92. A blogger is certainly in no position to judge my ethics and

this is not a "progressive" forum. It's a democratic forum and I'm not "advocating" anything. Just stating a fact of life. There are ways to avoid getting smashed in the face. She saw this coming and should have left long before it got to that point. Women have and DO use their gender as a right of priviledge and they don't always prevail.

[dustbunnie]

95. I'm not a blogger.

Neither progressives nor democrats believe that those among us who are weaker deserve to be threatened or abused by those more powerful.

You're doing an awful lot of projecting there Fire1. You have no idea what was said, or what she saw coming. The woman was there with another man. It isn't often that a some solo asshole will attack a pair, or group of people. I'm certain everyone can avoid being smashed in the face if they never step into a bar or restaurant. That isn't a practical solution though, and both society and the law take a dim view of bullies and abusers taking up all the space through brute force on top of it.

[Fire1]

96. And I think there is miscommunication here. I was referring

to the Chris Brown incident, as far as "seeing it coming" and stand by my premise. Rhiana stated that he had pushed and/or shoved her prior to the incident where he beat her. If that's not seeing it coming, I don't know what is and a far cry from "projection." I don't believe anyone should be abused but I also know that people abuse priviledge.

[dustbunnie]

109. Yes, I thought you were talking about the CU woman. My mistake.

Going back to her and Prof Smackdown, the argument appeared to be over white privilege, a favorite discussion topic of his apparently. In your post 71, you appear to have projected your feelings into assumption that the CU woman took her own "white privilege for granted" and therefore deserved a beatdown... even though you have no idea how she interacts with others and whether or not she lives under any presumption of privilege at all.

You then go on to comment about FEMALE privilege, and how women abuse it... so the CU woman quite possibly deserved a beatdown for that too. Sounds like more projecting to me.

You make the comment that the situation with Chris Brown was "different" because he wasn't provoked, which implies to me that you think Rhianna didn't deserve her beating, while this CU woman, operating under what you've decided (out of thin air) is her umbrella of white, female privilege, did.

So yeah, lots of conflicting posts, and more than a hint that you're projecting your own personal feelings into the mix.

[Fire1]

110. As for projecting my own feelings, yeah, just as millions of

other readers will project theirs, as well. Provocation or no, Rhiana should have left him at the first sign of violence, imo, but does not justify a beat down, IF, a simple question about a text msg was the trigger. I find it hard to believe that young man hauled off and arbitrarily beat her beyond recognition, simply for asking a question! As for the CU woman, until we read both sides of the story, we have no clue WHY he hit her. I speculated that she likely abused her privilege to her detriment. Whether that privilege was gender, race or both is something we'll probably never know. My stance is pretty consistent.

[dustbunnie]

112. So far your speculations don't match up at all to the witness statements.

You seem fixated on this privilege business. Perhaps it was the professor's own sense of privilege that caused him to lash out. Male privilege, or misogyny. Hatred of white women. Class elitism since he was a professor and she a lowly university emp. Those speculations make more sense from what's been put forth by those who know both and those who witnessed what happened.

In the end though, even if one were to remove so-called "privilege" from the equation and decide that women are so equal to men they deserve to experience the same violence men mete out to each other... basically that translates into giving bullies carte blanche in abusing and intimidating those who are at a physical disadvantage. The difference in physiology, i.e. size, muscle mass and reach, means that a woman can easily be killed by a punch that a man could take. The majority of such fights would be like an adult male beating on a young teenage boy. Most people would have no respect for such a man, and find the concept despicable. You don't apparently, although you pretend to give it lip service. Luckily our society doesn't see it your way.

[kwassa]

190. do you have any idea of their relative sizes?

you unload this sweeping generalization:

"basically that translates into giving bullies carte blanche in abusing and intimidating those who are at a physical disadvantage. The difference in physiology, i.e. size, muscle mass and reach, means that a woman can easily be killed by a punch that a man could take.The majority of such fights would be like an adult male beating on a young teenage boy"

This is one wild-ass assumption. You assume a great physical advantage on his part, based on absolutely nothing.

You are arguing nothing more really than your speculation is better than Fire1's speculation, with great vehemence, and zero evidence.

[Gwendolyn]

197. The poster has an excellent point. Open any book on physiology.

There's a reason why men and women compete separately in athletic events. And not just fight-oriented matches either. Everything from shot put to gymnastics. Female bodybuilders can't put on anywhere near as much muscle mass as men can, no matter how hard they train or what drugs they take. There's a reason why the vast majority of women are unable to fight off their rapists. And there is a reason why the vast majority of women are murdered by men rather than by their own gender. Quite frankly, your post is so idiotic it should probably just be ignored. Toodles.

[kwassa]

199. Uh, no, she doesn't have an excellent point, she has no point.

Tell me about the specific size and weight of each one of them.

Until then, you have no point. You are speculating based on generalities of gender size. Worthless speculation, I might add.

[Gwendolyn]

200. Goes toward societal acceptance. If you accept that it's okay to punch the one --

300 pound woman against the 120 pound male, then you accept it all. Pregnant women, tiny women, whatever. She was replying to a poster who suggested exactly that. Disgusting. There are very few examples of women who can persevere against the average male and generally speaking, society understands that. You probably do as well, but it's just fun be an ass on a message board.

[kwassa]

201. I've been nothing but polite.

It seems to be you engaged in calling me names. Why? Because I disagree with you? Because I don't bow to your assumptions? Sorry about that.

and I never said it was o.k. to punch anyone else, simply that speculation is speculation, and this thread is nothing but speculation based on the slim facts known about the incident..

Much of the facts of this story are missing and will never be known, unless some more reporting is going to happen.

[Gwendolyn]

203. You don't even know what you're arguing. You just want to defend a man who hit a woman, regardless.

I didn't call you an ass. I said you're acting like one. I'll say the same to anyone who defends beating on those who are weaker or smaller. That's what the original poster said, and you disagreed. That's why I responded to you in the first place. You very much did say that it's okay to punch someone.

There are enough facts of this case to know that a man hit a woman whom he engaged in conversation in the first place. There are a restaurant full of witnesses to attest to that. Would you still be defending him if he were white and the same witnesses saw him hit a teenage boy or a much smaller man hampered by an arm cast. No, you probably wouldn't bother.

[kwassa]

204. I never said it was o.k. to punch anyone.

Go look for a quote from me on the subject, if you feel like chasing your tail.

I do know what I am arguing, and the differentiation between calling me an ass or accusing me of acting like one is infinitesimal. You still use personal insults.

I am not defending him and his actions, something else you don't seem to understand. I am attacking the suppositions, including yours, that the woman was inherently at a disadvantage. She could have punched him in the face and left him with the same injury. That is my supposition, and as valid as any of the many others in this thread.

What I am defending is this: no one should leap to judgment about this incident without a full set of facts, which really are not available in any news report so far. Those who feel no need for facts to reach judgment might ask themselves how this makes them any different from freepers who engage in equally fact-free opinions.

[Gwendolyn]

205. No, you don't know what you're arguing as it's obvious you have no clue about physiology.

Otherwise you wouldn't attack what you call "suppositions" in such an asinine way. I'm not going to google books or articles for you, but will leave you with this following quote by member Maru Kitteh who already made the effort to educate others on a previous topic concerning testosterone and the physical advantages it gives males.

If you really want to know the WHY and the HOW it is that the average male is stronger than most females, this is a start for you. It was posted with regards to the track runner who was recently found to be inter-sexed. There are other posts by this same lady on here that you can look up for elucidation BEFORE you post more nonsense. Either that, or you can wallow in your ignorance instead. Seems to be where you're headed and let me point out that this is a common freeper quality as well.

WHY MALES ARE STRONGER THAN FEMALES AND SHOULD NOT STRIKE THEM UNLESS IT IS A MATTER OF SELF-DEFENSE OR PART OF MUTUALLY APPROVED SEXUAL ACTIVITY --

"Under your own criteria the 5'0" men would be competing against 5'0" women and with equal training the men are going to win EVERY SINGLE TIME. Even with lesser training they're likely to pull off a respectable win the majority of the time.

It seems you might not be aware of exactly why males, and those with naturally masculinized biology, enjoy an insurmountable advantage over genotypal females, so I'll try to explain some of the reasons here in brief.

Testosterone increases bone mass all over the body. - Let's say you need to pull an engine out of a large truck. You can hook the strongest motor in town up to a pulley to lift that motor out, but it will never work unless you have an adequately strong beam to hook it to. Same is true of the human muscle. The denser, larger, stronger bone of the male supports greater strength. Bone density can be increased through load-bearing weight over time but if you take one typical genotypal male and one typical genotypal female of the same size the male will always have an advantage.

Testosterone increases exponentially the number of mitochondria naturally present in every skeletal muscle fiber in the body. Mitochondria are the powerhouses of a cell. This means that pound for pound, muscle tissue found in the masculinized body will be much stronger and enjoy greater endurance than the same muscle power of a like genotypal female.

Testosterone also increases the amount of available glycogen stored in a the muscle cells of the masculinized body, so more fuel is available for use than in the genotypal female body.

Testosterone has a direct effect on cardiac mass and cardiac output. The greater cardiac output and mass mean that the masculinized body can deliver more oxygen rich blood to the muscles and carry away waste products faster and more efficiently than the heart of a same-sized female.

Speaking of blood, testosterone even increases the amount of hemoglobin attached to each red blood cell pumped by the heart, so each and every red blood cell delivered carries more molecules of oxygen to the muscle tissues.

There are even more examples of how increased testosterone, especially when present throughout development effect a quantifiable advantage for masculinized individuals, but these are probably the most relevant."

[Beacool]

126. If this is what you really think of male - female relations, then I feel for the women in your life.

"As for the CU woman, until we read both sides of the story, we have no clue WHY he hit her. I speculated that she likely abused her privilege to her detriment."

Other than in self defense, there's no excuse whatsoever for a man to punch a woman. It is a cowardly act.

:-(

[niyad]

193. how in the HELL do you figure "she saw it coming"??? based on what, exactly? were you there?

do you know what was said? did you see his body language telegraphing a punch?

hate to tell you this, cupcake, but most of us don't go around figuring we are going to get punched in the face for disagreeing with someone.

I sure hope the women in your life understand your approval of violence against women, and act accordingly--like getting the hell out of your life.

[ecstatic]

98. I hate women beaters, but if she uttered the N-word, then more

power to him for shutting her up.

[cali]

101. There is absolutely NO indication whatsofuckingever that she did anything of the kind

no reports from the many witnesses. nothing. He was out of control and likely drunk and evidently has a history of being contentious in that bar, but hey way to go. classic sick blaming of the victim.

[ecstatic]

105. I said "if." We don't know all the details yet

But in trying to figure out what would make an esteemed professor snap in that way, a racial slur comes to mind as a possibility.

[-..__...]

104. What if...

he had called her a "white motherfucka" first (or "white bitch", etc... what have you)?

[ecstatic]

106. Then in the scenario I gave, he'd be in the wrong

Don't dish what you can't take.

[petronius]

132. If she'd said that, or anything else, he'd still be in the wrong.

You don't get to pound on people because you don't like what they say. If he was made uncomfortable by her comments, he should have walked away. If she crossed an ethical line, he would have recourse through the university. Short of her striking him first, there is no way to twist this story to excuse his behavior...

[western mass]

140. So is that what you call "black privilege"?

Shutting up mouthy white b*ches with the backside of your hand?

Just trying to get clear where you're coming from.

[WriteDown]

162. I guess he doesn't have a radio installed in his car either.

:eyes:

[JonQ]

217. Oh I like this game!

If he was about to rape her then the white patrons in the bar would have been justified in lynching him to protect her.


Probably safest just to assume that he was going to.

[Nye Bevan]

121. "I'm not one of those who believe women should not be hit under any circumstances"

Definitely one of the all-time top 10 most disgusting DU posts. :puke:

[petronius]

130. So if a woman is 'mouthing off,' at some point it becomes OK to hit her?

Dude, you are a complete tool...

[Forkboy]

65. Dumbass.

[Odin2005]

85. What a jerk.

Yeah, sure, punch people you disagree with, THAT will convince them!!! :eyes:

[dugaresa]

94. beating people to get your point across normally doesn't help your case

doesn't matter what you are arguing.

[ecstatic]

97. This story doesn't sound credible. nt

[lukasahero]

100. Why is that?

It's all over the news. There were witnesses. Do you just not believe it because it came from a woman? Did you have the same doubts about the harassment and arrest of Professor Gates?

[Nye Bevan]

117. I'm not sure what's more disgusting.

The fact that he punched a woman in the face, or the number of DUers jumping to his defense on the grounds that she might have said something to upset him.

[mamaleah]

118. Shocking, isn't it?

It must be opposite day. I would think a crime like this would get more attention, instead we have to argue if she was asking for it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

133. Just be glad DU didn't exist in the summer and fall of '95

That would have been a real education.

[get the red out]

157. Yep, if he were a white southerner

And some uppity female professor had said something he didn't like and he punched her the guy would be Satan on DU. But in this special case, that Bitch got what she had comming to her for daring to upset this very special, wonderful MAN. How dare she?

[Beacool]

119. What a man, punching a woman in the face.

McIntyre, who worked in civil rights organizing in the South in the sixties, called it a "very unfortunate event."

I guess her civil rights did not matter to him. What an a-hole!!!

x(

[Darth_Kitten]

120. Read some posts....

it's amazing the lengths "some" people go in defending an abuser.

I guess women don't rate.

[Beacool]

124. They are defending him because he's AA.

If he had been a white guy and he had hit a woman of color, there would be several threads and endless posts on the subject. White chick gets punched in the face? She probably was asking for it.

To my astonishment, I found out during the primaries that sexism and misogyny are as rampant on the left as they are on the right.

Very dissapointing.......

:(

[-..__...]

128. That and his 'edjucashun' level....

makes his opinion indisputable.

[ecstatic]

129. reverse racism.... oh noez!

The "edjucashun" was a nice touch too. Was that meant to be ebonics?

[-..__...]

131. No...

it was a mockery of DUtonics, but whatever spin works for you I'm fine with it.

[mamaleah]

134. Does calling it reverse racism somehow make it less racist?

Really does it? Everyone knows people would be typing hate crime so fast if the races of the attacker and the victim where switched.

Maybe the prof is just a racist asshole. There can be racists who are not white.

[ecstatic]

141. The bitterness attached to some of the responses here

makes me think that people are more upset about what they think would have happened if the situation was reversed than they are about what actually happened.

We still don't know the facts. NYPost is not a credible source, but from the straightforward articles about the incident 1) race is not mentioned, 2) it mentions she waited 3 days to report and both of them are avoiding the media. There is more to this story than any of us know. Maybe they are a couple. Maybe he is the next Major Hasan. Who knows?

[Gwendolyn]

145. Wrong. We know most of what happened.

1. Race was mentioned in the form of "white privilege." A favorite topic of the professor's that he seems to foist on others whether they want to be engaged by the bar loud mouth or not. That's been confirmed by those who know him.

2. She waited three days because she was afraid of making waves. That translates into she was afraid of losing her job or being made to feel extremely uncomfortable at work. Witnesses said the same thing.

Highly doubtful they were a couple. And if they were? Sucker punching your significant other is okay? People usually find beating your girlfriend not an okay thing to do.

[ecstatic]

149. Where did I say it would be OK

if they were a couple? Why didn't anyone at the bar call the police?

[Gwendolyn]

156. Why even bring it up then if it has no mitigating purpose?

The police are usually only called to the scene of a bar brawl when a victim calls or the participants are half dead. Otherwise, bouncers throw people out and that's it. The woman has already said she didn't want to go to the police because she was afraid of how it would affect her job.

Not sure why you're sticking up for this professor when there are witnesses all over the place who've already come forward with details of what went down. You can't hide what goes on in a crowded restaurant.

[ecstatic]

161. Nevermind. Apparently unless I say to burn him at the stake

I'm defending him. :eyes: All I said was to wait for all the details.

[kiva]

166. Maybe if you had waited for the details, you wouldn't be

having to retreat.

I hate women beaters, but if she uttered the N-word, then more power to him for shutting her up.

I said "if." We don't know all the details yet. But in trying to figure out what would make an esteemed professor snap in that way, a racial slur comes to mind as a possibility.

This story doesn't sound credible.

There is more to this story than any of us know. Maybe they are a couple.

If you're going to complain about people speculating, then perhaps you shouldn't engage in it yourself.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

173. Anyone who thinks the "n-word" as a reply is the tipping point it takes....

....to infuriate some as they mount an assault about "white privilege" hasn't read these boards too long.

[ecstatic]

174. You're right nt

[get the red out]

155. A lot of LIBERALS obviously believe she has NO rights if she makes a man mad.

I can't believe how quickly the liberals on DU abandon women's rights completely because she dared say something that made this man angry. I am floored. Why do liberals on DU hate women? Better still, how far down in the obvious liberal hierarchy of "protected" do women fall? I can't believe these people excusing this man's actions. When do words give a man the right to punch a woman? When did that become a liberal value?

[Beacool]

187. Oh, it's very simple.

The liberals will defend the AA guy over the white woman. She "obviously" must have done something to infuriate him. Race always trumps gender for the left, as demonstrated during the primaries. The hypocrisy seems to elude them.

:eyes:

[Lilyeye]

208. Get over the fucking primaries already. Your bitterness is annoying.

[JonQ]

218. I think an argument could be made that women have had it worse

so does male privilege trump white privilege?

So we need to figure out who is most victimized for their race/gender to decide who is at fault. If women have it worse then he should be punished. If blacks have it worse then she was asking for it

[amborin]

139. not unheard of in academia! just proves he's not sexist!

[proteus_lives]

142. What a bastard!

Fire him and put him in jail!

You never hit women!

[democracy1st]

146. bye dummy what a disgrace!

[KansDem]

159. DAMN!!! None of my degrees are in architecture or engineering.

Might be an opening here soon...

[Dorian Gray]

170. Sounds like a total asshole

he should be fired.

[JerseygirlCT]

171. "Unfortunate" I hope that jerk is facing lots of unfortunate

jail time.

What a thug.

[rd_kent]

178. Is this a hate crime?

[mamaleah]

181. Why not?

nt

[BigBluenoser]

188. I'm really hoping some of the posters in this are trolls...

Because otherwise this place is just too fucked up.

Must have been a pretty posh club for that fellow not to have left with a fat lip.

Edit: just reread the article. Looks like someone tried to give him one.

[niyad]

195. this has to be one of the most depressing weeks I have spent on DU-- the woman-hating bs coming from

some makes me think I hit one of the local bars in this super red county.

some of the posts on this thread alone are absolutely disgusting. I feel for the women in the lives of these posters.

[Naturyl]

198. Prick? Maybe. Drunk? Probably. Unfortunate? Definitely.

Somebody woke up with a remarkably bad hangover the next day - and I don't just mean physically.

[lukasahero]

202. Why didn't he hit the guy who was also arguing with him?

"The professor, who is black, had been engaged in a fiery discussion about "white privilege" with Davis, who is white, and another male regular, who is also white, Friday night at 10:30 when fists started flying, patrons said."

http://blackchristiannews.com/news/2009/11/race-relations-at-columbia-university-hit-new-low-black-male-professor-hit-white-female-staffer-over.html

"Patrons said the professor had been engaged in a fiery discussion about "white privilege" with Davis, who is white, and another male regular, who is also white, Friday night at 10:30 when fists started flying, patrons said"

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2378158/lionel_mcintyre_columbia_university.html?cat=9

[JonQ]

206. What the hell were the other bar patrons doing?

I can't think of any bar around here where a man could walk away from decking a woman in the face without getting a serious beating from all the other men present.

[lukasahero]

207. Please read the news stories

He punched a guy who tried to go after him for punching Davis and 2 employees (bouncers?) threw him out. The details (regardless of the pathetic speculation being offered elsewhere in this thread) are in the news reports with various eye-witnesses weighing in.

[JonQ]

210. One guy?

And I think it was a guy that was with her, could be mistaken on that.

Anyway, point is he should have gotten his ass beat by the entire male population of that bar.

He did not, which is unfortunate because it looks like he'll walk away from this with no penalties whatsoever.

[lukasahero]

211. You know, I think we should all stop hitting everybody

There are people on this thread saying 'welcome to equal rights ladies - you're equally able to be beat up' and there are others saying how the guy who punched her should be beat up.

Why don't we, instead of defaulting equality to mean we all get to act like men and suffer the consequences, we consider defaulting to how previous generations treated women (i.e. - by not hitting them)? That way, the default for both men and women would be no one should expect to get punched.

Violence solves nothing except to give bigger bullies their way. The fact is there is always someone bigger, stronger, meaner and more violent waiting to take someone less strong out so the weaker get weapons. How about we all just stop beating each other up?

[JonQ]

212. Well obviously he was wrong to hit a woman

I didn't think that was in dispute.

And bullies (which he clearly is one) tend to respond violence, that's how their minds work. He thinks he's right because he can physically intimidate the person he was arguing with. If he knows that he can hit women and get away with it (as he has) he will likely continue to do so. If he knows that if he hits a woman he will get it back 10 fold then he will likely stop. You can't reason with someone who thinks it is perfectly acceptable to punch a woman in the face over a silly argument. But you can intimidate them in to modifying their behavior.

I feel bad for this woman and all the women he will abuse in the future, that could have been prevented with a little corporal punishment from his peers.

And anyone who says womens rights means it is now acceptable to beat women is obviously not right in the head.

[dustbunnie]

213. Who's to say this woman was his first.

Maybe he's done it often enough with impunity that slugging a woman in a bar in full view of others seemed like a rational course of action.

Btw... from the way the article is written, it seems like the wait staff were on it so fast, the patrons didn't really need to get involved. Also, don't forget this is a big CU hang out. Aside from the initial shock, I believe a lot of students would be loathe to follow him outside and get involved in something that could affect their position at the university. Just a guess.

[JonQ]

214. I guess that makes sense

[lukasahero]

215. I certainly understand your position

And I appreciate you speaking up. I think violence against women (and rape) would greatly benefit from more men standing up to the bullies.

I guess I just wish we could encourage people to modify their behavior with our legal system but the realist in me knows that's unlikely.

[Lilyeye]

209. What a piece of shit this guy is. He needs to lose his job and be charged.

[mrs_p]

219. what an asshole

i don't care what he does for a living or the color of his skin - he sounds like a jerk.