Can you help me with my situation?

[Trailrider1951]

DU has been a place for all of us to help each other, and now I would like to turn to you for some help, if I can. I am an animal lover with a situation that has become a nightmare. Here is the story:

In June, I invited my sister to move in with me, with her living in the upstairs of my house and sharing the downstairs area with me. She had lost her upteenth job and was being evicted for non-payment of rent. She has been drifting around ever since she lost everything in the Katrina disaster. She has emotional problems (stemming from severe physical and emotional abuse at the hands of our parents), and has a hard time working for anyone but herself. And she has a hard time getting along with people
(including me), because she takes everything personally and reacts with anger and verbal abuse to anything she perceives as criticism.

If all this were not bad enough, she has turned into an animal hoarder. Google those words and you will get an eyeful. Before she moved in, I knew that she had "several" cats. Also before she moved in, she persuaded me to take in a stray mama cat with four kittens that she had taken in. She said she had no money to take care of them. I also had three of my own, so now I had eight. I got the three males and one of the females neutered, and would neuter the females when I had the money to do so. So far, so good. Then she moves in with her twenty or so cats, promising me that she would keep any un-neutered males confined to one of the rooms upstairs. Apparently one of the males got loose and bred four or five of the un-neutered females. Now we have about fifty cats and kittens. I have no idea how many there actually are. And my sister insists upon taking in any strays she finds, recently adding another mama cat with five kitties.

My sister presently does not have a job and is going to school full-time. She does give me some money when she gets her financial aid, but it is not nearly enough to cover the costs of cat food, litter and her use of the utilities. Also, she cleans the upstairs where she lives (960 sq. ft.), but helps little with the downstairs (1700 sq. ft.) aside from helping with the dishes once a week. So I am expected to clean all the cat boxes (4) downstairs, as well as buy all the cat food and litter.

I am at the end of my patience! My house smells like a cat toilet as some of the cats go potty anywhere they like on the floor, and they rip the curtains from the walls and tear up my furniture. The kitchen is unsanitary where the cats walk around on the counters and crawl inside the cabinets where we keep food and dishes. I am tired of spending hours every day cleaning after all those cats. I talked to my sister, and while she has agreed to give away the kittens, she insists upon keeping her adult cats
(maybe twenty?). I would like to keep my three. That is still too many! Also, she will not let me give them to a shelter that kills animals. The only no-kill shelter in our area wants a $95 donation to give up a litter of kittens, and an additional $95 for any adult cat. I cannot afford this! I am to the point that I am considering sneaking two or three of the cats out on Saturday morning and giving them to our county's animal shelter, who says that they only euthanize animals that are sick or un-adoptable, not healthy kittens. My sister, of course, refuses to even consider giving a kitten to them. Or I could just lie about where those kitties are going, but I don't want to be a liar.

Please, does anyone have any suggestions? I cannot take this anymore! And I cannot throw my sister out on the street. She need psychological help, but has not health insurance and no money. And she is trying to get her life back together.

[havocmom]

1. Inquire about state/community mental health care for the needy in your area

She needs help you cannot provide. If she doesn't get it, your health seems at risk, along with the health of a lot of the critters she hoards.

[havocmom]

3. And perhaps some of those animal rescue centers with lots of land might need live in help?

Just something to look into. I know there are places out west where people volunteer to say for periods of time to tend rescued animals. Maybe one might provide long term housing for a volunteer and be somewhere near counseling services that might help her with cognitive therapy.

[Trailrider1951]

12. Thanks for caring, havocmom

I have found little mental health care available for the poor here in Williamson County (Repub "Bootstrap" country). Perhaps if we lived to the south in the Peoples Republic of Austin she would fare better. And all the no-kill shelters in our area are either full or wanting an un-affordable fee to take in any more animals. :-(

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Contact all the animal rescue groups you can find, the HSUS, local, PAWS, Best Friends, etc. and

explain that your sister is hoarding cats. They will help you.



http://www.paws.org/help/report/hoarding.php

Hoarding/Excessive Number of Animals

Animal Hoarding is a human behavior that involves the keeping of higher than typical numbers of animals as pets without having the ability to properly house or care for them, while at the same time denying this inability. Along with other compulsive hoarding behaviors, it is linked in the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders - Fourth Edition (DSM-IV) to obsessive-compulsive disorder and obsessive-compulsive personality disorder.

The following criteria are used to define animal hoarding:

More than the typical number of companion animals
Inability to provide even minimal standards of nutrition, sanitation, shelter, and veterinary care, with this neglect often resulting in starvation, illness, and death
Denial of the inability to provide this minimum care and the impact of that failure on the animals, the household, and human occupants of the dwelling
If you or someone you know has a problem with hoarding please visit the links below for help. Animal hoarding is a serious psychological disease and can be a violation of current animal cruelty laws. Please do not hesitate to get help; your actions will help improve the lives of both the animals and people involved.

http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/animal-hoarding.html

How Can I Help?
If you think someone you know is struggling with animal hoarding, here are some ways you can help:

Pick up the phone and call your local humane law enforcement department, police department, animal shelter, animal welfare group or veterinarian to initiate the process. You may not want to get the person “in trouble,” but a phone call may be the first step to get them and the animals the help they need. “Often people don’t report hoarding situations because they are worried the hoarder will get in trouble or that the animals will get taken away,” says the ASPCA’s Allison Cardona, Director of Disaster Response. “What I would like to stress is that these situations only get worse with time, and the animals always end up getting taken out of the home. It is always better to say something—this is the first step for both the animals and the people to get the help they need.” Cruelty situations involving animals in New York City should be reported to the ASPCA Humane Law Enforcement department at [phone], ext. 4450, or [e-mail]. If you are outside NYC, read our Reporting Cruelty FAQ to find out where to report cruelty in your area.

Educate others about the misery involved in a hoarding situation. Animal hoarding has often been portrayed as an eccentricity—the elderly “cat lady.” The public needs to be made aware of the greater harm involved in animal hoarding.

Contact social service groups and ask them to get involved. Animal hoarding is not just about the animals. Your local department of the aging, adult protective services, health departments and other mental health agencies may be able to provide services or links to services. It’s important to get the animal hoarder connected to the right services.

Reassure the animal hoarder that it’s okay to accept help. Animal hoarders are usually worried that their animals will be killed or that they will never see them again. Regardless of the outcome, assure them that the animals need urgent care and that immediate action is necessary.

[Trailrider1951]

14. You have hit the nail on the head, sinkingfeeling

This is an excellent description of my sister's attitude toward her cats. I have made sure that the cats have the minimum necessary for survival: food, shelter, human contact. But, if I notify the authorities, they will remove all our animals, not just the ones we want to adopt out. And if I cause the loss of ALL her cats, she will never trust me again. :-( I'm trying to do the best thing for all involved.

[pitohui]

22. be careful -- putting her sister in jail does not help matters

i wouldn't contact any organization until i'd made a very careful determination of the consequences

believe it or not, some folks love their sisters

this is a BIG struggle for me, at the end of the day, i don't contact authority, because the animals will be euthanized -- already seen it happen MULTIPLE times over the years (so how are they helped?) so what is the benefit in seeing my friends hassled/jailed? yes, i know they are ill but putting them in prison won't help them

we don't cover for "crazy cat ladies" because we're stupid or because we think it cute, we cover for them because we're hard pressed to see how putting them in jail aids society when in my area at least fucking killers walk free...

[mikelgb]

4. I'd take one if I were close enough.

Put ads out for free cats and kittens on craigslist etc. Take a box of kittens to a local shopping center and give them away free. Try and enlist your sister to help them find homes, let her know that the situation is completely untenable and that she may keep (insert number here) cats and that is it.

[EFerrari]

6. Setting some limits sounds like a very good idea to me. n/t

[Trailrider1951]

15. Thank you Mike for caring

I'm going to try some of your suggestions. Some of our kitties are part Siamese and very attractive. They may go fast. If you cannot adopt one of ours, please consider adopting a shelter kitty in your area. Many are killed because they have no humans who care. :-(

[EFerrari]

5. Have you tried to contact a rescue group in your area?

I'm so sorry you two are in this mess. :(

[Trailrider1951]

16. EFerrari, I have contacted EVERY shelter, rescue, cat loving

group in a 60 mile radius. The only ones taking kittens (no adults) are the ones that KILL healthy kittens if they have no room. My sister will NEVER AGREE to placing kitties there. That's why I have posted here. I have run out of ideas.

Also, your idea of "setting limits". Would you please go back and read my original post? There is no "setting limits" with a person who is this damaged. If you knew her life story, you would know that this is impossible. I would not wish her life on my worst enemy. It truly sucks to be her.

[EFerrari]

26. I understand what you're saying about your sister.

And some limits for someone that feels that out of control is usually a relief. I don't mean "setting limits" as code for confrontations or harshness, either. Sounds like you both need some limits back in your lives that you can depend upon and it sounds like you need help putting them there.

I believe you when you say you have contacted every rescue org because I recently had a similar experience. Keep calling them. Something will shake loose. Put up an ad on Craig's List for them. And most of all, do everything you can to recruit yourself a social worker because this is going to be hard and long.

[Lyric]

7. Ordinarily I would suggest an anonymous call

to report her as an animal hoarder, which would take the decision out of her hands and solve your problem without wrecking your relationship. However, if you do that, they will take EVERY cat in the house. Not just hers. So you'd lose your three cats too. Also, you'd probably get into as much trouble as your sister because the call would be anonymous, not a concern call from YOU. Therefore, because you live there too, they'd consider you as liable as her.

One POSSIBLE complicated solution would be to take your three cats out of the house and let a friend keep temporarily. Then go have a sit-down talk with the animal shelter and explain the situation--don't tell them your name or address until they've agreed to keep your role a secret. Tell them that you do NOT want your sister to know that YOU were the one reporting the problem, but that you DO think that action needs to be taken. Since there's a plethora of physical evidence, they won't need testimony or a statement from you...they can pretend that it was an "anonymous" tip without a problem.

Your sister likely won't go to jail or even get fined, so long as the animals are well-fed and clean, and their environment is healthy. She'll be required to seek counseling to avoid charges, though, and that's probably a good thing. They'll also probably ban her from owning animals for a while, but they won't ban YOU, so when it's all over, you can bring your cats home and everything should be okay.

I know you love your sister, but those cats are innocent lives. They don't deserve to be packed into a house like that, and there is no WAY that your sister can possibly give them each the individual love and attention they need to be properly socialized. There's just not enough time in the day. More than your sister is at stake here. Please do something fast. Try my idea. It very well might work.

[EFerrari]

38. Lyric. There's something here in your suggestion.

The next time I need one of those, I'm going to ask you. :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. Boundaries.

If you tell the person who is living with you that she can have no more than 2 cats, and she brings in 48 more, she's an asshole.

Fundamentally, it's your house, and you get to set the rules. If she won't live with them, or at least negotiate in good faith, that's not your fault.

What you're doing is enabling.

I'm sorry, but I don't see an "end well" solution. She'll hate your guts for making her abide her part of the bargain, or you'll live in an unsanitary, unsafe and devalued house as well as hate her guts (as well as your own) for not requiring it.

She's a user. If you enforce the rules, when she finds that she won't get a better deal elsewhere, she'll eventually find it in her heart to "forgive" you.

[Trailrider1951]

19. Hi Jeff

If you tell the person who is living with you that she can have no more than 2 cats, and she brings in 48 more, she's an asshole.

Fundamentally, it's your house, and you get to set the rules. If she won't live with them, or at least negotiate in good faith, that's not your fault.

What you're doing is enabling.

I'm sorry, but I don't see an "end well" solution. She'll hate your guts for making her abide her part of the bargain, or you'll live in an unsanitary, unsafe and devalued house as well as hate her guts (as well as your own) for not requiring it.

She's a user. If you enforce the rules, when she finds that she won't get a better deal elsewhere, she'll eventually find it in her heart to "forgive" you.



The above is your exact quote. This is good advice about how to deal with " NORMAL PEOPLE". Apparently you have no clue how to deal with emotionally damaged people. No, she is not a "user". She hasn't a clue how to be a "normal" person. She is SEVERELY DAMAGED!!@! I will treat her accordingly.

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. Sorry then, I guess I can't help.

But I know a lot of people for whom "emotionally damaged" is little more than a convenient and reliable get out of jail free card.

The people for whom the rules do not apply can be depended upon to break them, regardless of the suffering that results.

[Berry Cool]

9. Others have said excellent things and made good suggestions.

All I can add is, and you're not going to like this, you were a fool to believe your sister when she "promised" to confine the un-neutered males. It can't be done. Cats who want to mate will get together come hell or high water, and you should have known that.

Too late for "shoulds," though. Take the advice given here. Make a call about your sister hoarding cats and let the rest of the cat situation take care of itself. Then do some tough love with your sister. She is NOT "trying to get her life back together" at all--she's counting on you to hold it together for her and take all the crap for her.

[seabeyond]

10. you didnt put down strong boundaries for her. she needs them. or she is gone. nt

[RKP5637]

11. A number of the replies seem very helpful. I do know one thing is your

sister definitely needs some professional help/guidance. One is generally not successful in changing this behavior by talking with them as you are too involved directly in the situation. She will disrupt you completely, physically and emotionally, and it seems your health is significantly at risk.

I think sneaking out cats to try to change the situation will only make it worse. I have no idea where are are located, but I would try to find some community services you trust that you can talk to in trying to get the ball rolling with regard to helping your sister. And some of the replies had some seemingly good solutions with regard to the kitties and cats.

[cynatnite]

13. Call the human society or some other organization about the cats...

Get them out whether your sister likes it or not. It's your house. Period.

Getting your life together means making tough choices.

[ecstatic]

17. the cats go or she goes

On top of that, she needs to clean up all areas in the house in order to be mostly rent free.

[Liberal_in_LA]

37. +100

[barbtries]

18. after my daughter died,

i was in such a daze for so long that 2 cats had become 14 - our house smelled like a catbox and i did not know what to do. i put an ad in the recycler free cats and a rescuer from petfinders came to my aid. all the cats were fixed and she found homes for 11 of them. i would try petfinders. i don't know where you are, but if there is a paper like the recycler which publishes free ads, you may find someone the way i did.

again, i don't know where you live, but pretty much anywhere that many cats is not going to be legal. you could call animal control, but of course most of the cats will be doomed if you do. i wish you well and hope that you will post again when the situation has been resolved.

[pitohui]

20. i admit i checked to profile to see if we know each other

i know a lot of animal hoarders (esp. cat hoarders), and when you said the magic word "katrina" i was wondering if we already knew each other but your location (austin) suggests we don't

i hate to say it but i know a lady in my area who lives in the country, is older, and already has 80 cats, IF IT WAS ME IN YOUR SITU i would sneak a cat a week onto her property in fact i already know someone who did this...but this ain't gonna work for you in austin and there is NOTHING worse than dumping a cat in a rural area just in hopes someone will take of it, you are just dumping the cat in already taken territory to be torn apart, if you want the cat gone then you should quietly and secretly take care of the matter yourself and NEVER TELL ANYONE

yes, shelters in louisiana and apparently texas are full, this is why the fee, you're being charged for having a heart -- shit heels don't pay a fee, they drown the fucking cats and go on w. their lives

i'm gonna say this, if you had to make a decision between your sister and a cat, you would choose your sister, well, choose your sister

cats may have to disappear, and you may not ever be able to tell anyone anywhere anyhow what happened, this may be the darkest secret of your life but it's to save your sister

the folks who are saying "kick out your sister if she doesn't follow house rules" don't know what addiction is, please google and research about the parasites that use cats to change our brains -- i've seen it, it's real -- if your sister had diabetes, you would understand that willpower doesn't control blood sugar, if she was an alcoholic you would have more trouble understanding but at the end of the day and after years of observation you would find out it was a disease she couldn't control -- what cats do to brains is exactly the same

you can pretend that yelling and threatening your sister will fix things but ya know what? it won't, the cats have a hook in her brain and there's a scientific link we're only beginning to understand

i say save your sister and if a few cats mysteriously disappear it's very sad but it's your sister

forgive me if i'm an evil witch with a b, but we don't have time for science to solve this, your sister (and your household) is suffering now

[Mira]

21. I have read the replies and there are extremely good suggestions, and a really

excellent carefully done assessment of this entire situation by sinkingfeeling.
I do not see any one pointing out that hoarding is a disease, no matter what the objects are, one that without treatment will not abate and go away.
"Cleaning out" the hoarded objects of any kind is a temporary intervention only. The compulsion is not addressed and the "helper" is usually dropped or despised and the disease goes on.

You are in a terrible situation.
I don't right now know, without re-reading everything, whether it has been suggested for YOU to get yourself some counseling and find a person you trust who can stand beside you while you lower the boom, who can help you get treatment for your sister, and who helps you get through the aftermath.

Please report back. I will be very much thinking about you.
If you don't have the money for a counselor, go to Family Services or the equivalent in your area.
Please look after yourself, you are in an untenable situation that will make YOU sick if you don't stand up for your rights.

(ask me how I know: I had two aunts who had so many cats in a small flat, that one would just keep falling over them, could not sit in a chair because it was already occupied by a cat, where they were uncountable, they owned the place, the kitchen, the closets. My aunts slowly and surely went nuts. Both of them. Don't ask for details. Just put this situation in your life to an end)

[pitohui]

23. we were posting at the same time

i hope i made it clear that hoarding was a disease

i don't want the OP's sister (or my friends) to go to jail or to lose their chance at a life because they have a disease

in america you need to be VERY careful before you report someone for having a disease, you could be ending their chance of ever getting a job (mental diseases are a BIG drag on company health insurance), you could be taking steps that lead to the person being put in a jail or prison because the cats are not in an ideal situation

[dixiegrrrrl]

24. I agree with Mira. This is not something one should handle alone.

I understand that your sister is in need of help.
I also understand that dealing with her and the cats requires help for you.
Even if magically all the cats disappeared tomorrow, the hoarding behavior would just create more.
You have described someone who cannot live via rules and boundaries, for whatever reason.

Several people have suggested seeking Mental Health help for your sister's compulsive behavior.
I agree with that.

Something's gotta give and you are the only person who will be able to start the ball rolling.

I am retired from 25 years in the Mental Health field, therefore I do hear you.
I hope you can accept some of the suggestions offered.
best of luck.:hi:

[Hatchling]

25. Check with her School.

Most schools have counselors. I went to one when I was in college. Also they sometimes have access to therapists that will charge on a sliding scale.

I'm a hoarder myself, although a very organized one. Most of my stuff is packed away neatly in boxes. If I had to move to a smaller place, I wold be screwed. But with therapy, I have been able to start releasing some of my stuff. It's a very painful process. Letting go is not easy.

[EFerrari]

27. Trailrider, if you want me to help you make calls in your town, I will.

Pm me with what you think you're looking for and I'll try to help you find it. You're not alone.

[blues90]

28. You seem to already see the reality

Make her an offer she keeps three cats and find any way to get rid of the rest. You know it will only get worse.

I have a neighbor in the apt building we live in that insists on feeding strays well they just keep coming and adding up . She wants to move and try to put this on us. Well no way , we can't afford it and it will never end , this has been going on for 15 years , two die of old age and 4 appear .

You need to reach a compromise and you know that . no one can save them all and it's people who bring in cats and dogs that don't get them fixed that causes this but it's not your problem or something you need to take on . Tell her you have taken her in to help and that is all you can do .

[EFerrari]

29. Have you tried any of these resources on NAMI Austin's page?

http://www.nami.org/MSTemplate.cfm?Section=Resources67&Site=NAMI_Austin&Template=/ContentManagement/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=78774

[happy2bhere]

30. Cmon Duers- someone lives in the area and wants a kitty??

We have a local vet that has $10 spay/neuter clinics every so often, maybe look out for one of those.

Take a box of kitties to the grocery store, many people are simply unable to resist. I already have three cats but just thinking of cute little kitties makes me want to adopt one of yours.

You sound like a really wonderful person who wants to help, not alienate your sister, I have the feeling you will find a good way to handle the situation. There are many older people who might not even realize how a kitty might brighten their lives. Maybe you can take a walk around a retirement community with a box of the cuties hehe.

[EFerrari]

31. You don't just hand kittens to strangers unless you're willing

for that kitten to wind up cooked or run over or feral.

[happy2bhere]

32. well that is usually how I get mine

they just look so dang cute I cannot resist. It sounds like they are not in a good situation right now, and sometimes you have to trust people. There are no guarantees if you take them to a shelter or any other place either.

[EFerrari]

33. That's right. There are no guarantees. n/t

[mdmc]

34. I don't know the mental health system in Texas, but in NY

we have a mobile mental health service and a SPOA (single point of access) for mental health services. This is what you would do if you were living in NY..

1. find some way to get rid of the cats (some good advice in the replies). Try to get rid of as many cats as you can to good homes before moving on to #2.

2.In NY you could call mobile mental health and have them come out and evaluate your sis.
based on your info and their assessment of the situation, they would help your sis get into a psych hospital for an evaluation.
While she is in the hospital complete a SPOA application for her to receive housing and case management services. This will help her to get benefits, medical coverage, therapy, and a place to live.

3. Stay in her life and advocate for her with her service providers. Siblings are for keeps.

4. Be aware of caregiver trauma. It will take ya down if you don't take care of yourself..

Peace and low stress and feel free to pm me if you have a similar system in Texas and need some help or whatever..

[mdmc]

41. kick

to see if this helps.

pm me if I can help

[Liberal_in_LA]

36. "she will not let me". It's your house. Take control. Get rid of the cats. Lay down the law

Otherwise, YOU'LL be the one we'll see on TV being arrested for cat hoarding.

[EFerrari]

39. "Laying down the law" to someone who is out of touch with shared reality

isn't that simple.

[bluetrain]

40. I don't know where you are, but it's likely illegal for you to have so many animals in your home

unless you're licensed as an Animal Rescue.