So how do we have a revolution without destroying ourselves?

[Cyrano]

Let's face it. It's time for Americans to revolt against banks, Wall Street, insurance companies, both political parties, and their corporate puppet masters.

Far too many people have lost their jobs, their homes, their health care, and there's virtually no safety net in place to help them. And today or tomorrow, that could happen to any of us.

But here's the problem. How do you revolt in today's world? Marches on Washington have become useless. Letters to our congress critters are a waste of paper. An armed uprising would result in a blood bath, but it would be our blood and it would accomplish nothing.

Any suggestions?

[Nederland]

1. Win elections?

Just a thought...

[Demeter]

14. We Did. It Didn't.

[Nederland]

47. And what does that tell you?

That the Democratic party is a big tent and that not everyone inside it wants what you want. The bottom line is the people that really want radical change are in the minority.

[Cyrano]

59. Radical change???

Do you consider overthrowing the oppressors that charge us for water, and all the other basic necessities of life, radical change? How long before they start charging us for air depending on how many breaths we take a month?

Exactly how do things work on your home planet?

[YouTakeTheSkyway]

79. Water?

Last I checked, water treatment facilities cost money to build and operate.

[Cyrano]

88. And water has to be "treated" because it's being polluted by those

who are screwing us in every other way imaginable.

[natrat]

2. the bigger obstacle is the legions of morons who don't care about things beyond

their immediate time and space. It is a brave new world.

[Ghost Dog]

3. Listen to "Talk Radio"?

:popcorn:

[OneGrassRoot]

4. I don't know, but I wish we could come up with something clever...

and effective. Seems the only thing the masses get on board with nowadays are pop culture TV shows. Maybe if "Desperate Housewives" and "America's Top Model" and one of those friggin "Housewives of Whatever City" get on board with a revolution in their storyline, the people will follow.

[natrat]

9. notice they canned one of the few socially conscious shows, boston legal

they own the government, the media, the financial markets, the military and sadly a whole lot of minds

[AllentownJake]

5. The system will collapse on itself

No need to take to the streets till that happens.

[lazer47]

16. History has proven that your comment is DEAD ON

[AllentownJake]

36. That is where I got it

We'll see, the President might be succesful in re-inflating another bubble and delaying it for 3-4 years.

I liken him to Gorbachev, a decent intelligent young man, brought in too late, trying to resucitate a body filled with cancer.

[hunter]

48. I agree. This airplane is going down and she's never going to fly again.

Aim for the river and pray she doesn't tumble.

I've got some faith Obama can pull it off. He's a much better pilot than Bush was, in every way.

The comparison to Gorbachev is apt. Our empire is collapsing.

[Ghost Dog]

55. Nicely put.

Pull up, pull out!

Smooth.

[Ghost Dog]

52. That comment provides much food for thought,

thanks.

[Lyric]

6. Make campaign promises legally binding.

So we can vote for the ones who are willing to put their own physical freedom on the line in order to accomplish what they've promised.

That works for me.

[KharmaTrain]

7. At The Ballot Box...Where It Should Be

Sorry to those who thought the world would go from black to white overnight once President Obama was elected. His election marked the beginning of the end of nearly 30 years of right wing and corporate domination of our political system. There are still many who are resisting change (as we've seen with the healtcare debate) and the job of moving this country in a more progressive manner has just begun.

We've come quite a ways from the dark days of 2006 when the rushpublicans controlled all three branches of the government and undoing all the damage (12 years in control of the legislative and then the unitary executive) is not easy nor should have been expected to happen all at once. The next step is to support those progressives and liberals who are gaining power and work to elect even more...and to move forward with not only proposing change but making it happen.

The notion of "armed insurrection" or even mass boycotts are all but impossible to coordinate and make effective...who leads? While broken and imperfect, our system can and will work, but it requires electing more progressive Democrats and minimalizing those who stand in the way of change.

[Toucano]

8. The beginning of the end?

That sounds like Cheney describing Iraq circa 2004.

With the Wall St. bailout and the corporation-supporting health care bill, the "corporate domination of our political system" remains completely unchecked.

For chrissake, the flu vaccine was given to corporate trolls, defying the CDC's own recommendations on who should be immunized first!



The ballot box won't (and hasn't) changed a thing until there is an election system free of all private money.

[KharmaTrain]

12. Then Your Solution?

The OP asked about ideas...where are yours?

[Toucano]

23. You have to hit them where they live.

The American people have no stomach for this. You have to stop commerce.

It requires massive strikes, work stoppages and demonstrations accompanied by precise demands.

I would like to see a couple hundred thousand people surround Wall Street at 10 AM on a Tuesday for example. No, you can't get a "permit", that's not a demonstration. That's a parade.

Simultaneously, another couple hundred thousand people block traffic in and out of D.C.. You stop your car on the bridge and get out. Form a human barricade.

Others march to the capital and sit down on the steps.

No one leaves until:

1. The Wall Street CEO's give back bonuses paid with taxpayer money.
2. Congress passes:
a) A Constitutional Amendment barring all corporate and private contributions to federal officials and candidates. Elections will be financed with public funds.
b) Strict laws regulating the financial industry and corporate behavior and ethics.
c) Anti-trust laws that target media outlet ownership.
d) Repeal of trade laws that encourage U.S. companies to move operations overseas. A U.S. company that exports the means of production and imports their product will see that product heavily taxed.

It is important that the goals be achievable in a day or two, and that we not introduce tangential issues. Draft legislation should already be prepared.

Then, we may start to see an actual democracy in the United States.

[Ghost Dog]

29. Succinct.

And would be effective.

Kick.

[Toucano]

30. Maybe when enough people have been forced from their homes,

living in tents and unemployed, the illusion that they have something to lose will no longer hold them back from staging a proper demonstration.

As long as a modicum of comfort exists, it is unlikely to ever occur.

[Ghost Dog]

37. Then, bear in mind some would be gunned down,

or worse (Teheran, etc.-style?).

But your corporate MSM would not accurately report.

Even more of an incentive, right?

[Toucano]

60. People will suffer harm, it is certain.

Where is the National Guard, again? They're still overseas, right?



Success requires a mass of people.


And the media will not be helpful.

We have to stop thinking about the media, actually. All of our other parade-like demonstrations focused on people counts, media placement, etc. Like children asking for attention. They don't care about us. The media is an integral part of the problem now and cannot possibly contribute to the solution.

We have to not care what they say or what they report. Our purpose is to SHUT THE SYSTEM DOWN, and inconvenience them long enough that they HAVE TO ACT. The media has to be made irrelevant.

[Ghost Dog]

69. Well, traditionally, elsewhere, one of the first moves

involves taking over the transmission stations.

... And, in fact, forward planning UN-style involves, for example, UN Chater 7:

Chapter VII ... Article 41

The Security Council may decide what measures not involving the use of armed force are to be employed to give effect to its decisions, and it may call upon the Members of the United Nations to apply such measures. These may include complete or partial interruption of economic relations and of rail, sea, air, postal, telegraphic, radio, and other means of communication, and the severance of diplomatic relations.

Article 42

Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.

/more... http://www.un-documents.net/ch-07.htm

[OneGrassRoot]

38. +100. Bravo. Thank you. n/t

[KharmaTrain]

39. I'd Like It Too, But It's Not Gonna Happen...

Firstly, too many people are trying just to keep a roof over their head and don't have the luxuary of "striking" (less they lose their incomes and insurance) or traveling thousands of miles to sit on steps. Symbolic, yes, but practical?

Then with your proposals, do you have the votes in the House & Senate to make it happen. An ammendment means 67 Senate votes.

One thing is starting to happen is the move to reregulate broadcasting, but that faces tough sledding, just like net neutrality where assuredly some rushpublican Senator (my bets go on McCain) would put a hold or find other gimmicks to prevent any revisions from passing out of the Commerce committee and then there's that 60 vote thing afterwards.

And that's the rub...even while a minority the rushpublicans still obstruct and there are enough Democratic party enablers that so little is getting done and why many of us are so frustrated.

In my "younger days" I was always ready to storm the Bastille...but saw how it usually ended up in hitting walls. While it's hard to detect at times, change has happened but it's far from where it could be. That will require a change in Senate leadership as well as more progressive Democrats who will create a true majority and from there the real changes can begin.

[Toucano]

68. 10 of the 11 most densely populated areas lie between New Jersey and Maryland.

We can easily find 1/2 a million people who don't have to drive thousands of miles. We would focus on Wall Street and The Capital. If other demonstrations erupt in other cities, so much the better.

We have a true unemployment rate of 17.5 percent. That's millions of people who aren't particularly worried about losing their income for a couple of days (although a strike like this would affect others who are employed). They have the luxury of striking. They just have to be willing and inspired enough to put down their remote controls.

How many millions have been foreclosed on in the last 5 years?

I am not talking about symbolism, actually. Symbolism is worthless in the current state of media manipulation. We no longer need it.

We need action.

I don't count House and Senate votes. That's for politicians to do, not activists. You have to have an amendment to prevent the court from using some "corporate personhood free speech" argument to strike down the law and put the dirty money back in the system.

What I'm telling them is that the streets are positively CLOGGED with human beings, citizens. You're not moving and we're going to start stinking up the place until you LISTEN TO US.

People won't be able to get to the bank. They can't go to the mall. FexEx ain't gonna bring your package today. Congress, your corporate paymasters are feeling a pinch

We're shutting you down until you listen.

But as I said earlier, I don't think Americans have the stomach to do what it would take to make "change you can believe in".

The ballot box can't work as a solution as long as candidates must become beholden to corporate donations to get elected.

[drm604]

46. Congress can't pass constitutional amendments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution

Article Five of the United States Constitution describes the process whereby the Constitution may be altered. Such amendments may be proposed by the United States Congress or by a national convention assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds of the several states. To become valid, amendments must then be ratified by either the legislatures of or ratifying conventions held in three-fourths of the several states, and may not deny any state its equal right to vote in the Senate without its consent.

This process would likely take months or even years. Very few people could wait on a bridge or the capitol steps for that long. Even if they could it's far from guaranteed that 3/4 of the states would cooperate, no matter how much DC is disrupted. Hell, some crazy states might even cheer the disruption. In any case, the military would not allow that kind of disruption for that length of time.

[Toucano]

54. Congress passes the amendment and sends it to the states.

Your demonstration ends when Congress acts.

Then your demonstrations begin on the state level until the amendment is ratified. In some states, demonstrations might not even be necessary on the state level.

You don't have 50k people on the steps of the capital for 18 months. Sorry if that was unclear.

You have to have an amendment because this Supreme Court will strike down the law as a violation of corporate personhood "free speech" without it.

[Ghost Dog]

58. Think: Paris, '68.

De Gaulle.

Face it. Change is going to come, either from the left, or, if you folks won't do it, from the (unfortunate) right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZkluNzhGS8&feature=related

[loudsue]

61. How can I recommend that post??

You are 100% correct.

[Ghost Dog]

66. You know how,

Sue. You are (still), sensibly, free.

[Sinti]

78. This reply needs its own thread n/t

[branders seine]

80. I agree.

Mass strikes. Stop predatory crony capitalism in its tracks. Don't march on Washington, march the exclusive neighborhoods where these thieves live. Take back what's ours.

All revolution is local.

Or we could just wait around indefinitely.

[akwapez]

86. So where does this movement get started?

It is time.

[natrat]

10. sadly you are wrong, in many realms eg financial, it's neocon full speed ahead

[Cyrano]

13. I wish I could be as optimistic as you, Kharma Train.

The one item I left out of my OP is the main stream media. Whether TV, newspapers, or talk radio, they are largely responsible for the dumbing down of Americans.

It's hard to see how change can come about when the majority of people don't have a clue as to the true nature of our problem(s).

My only hope is that the internet itself represents a revolution that will eventually bring about real change and reform. Younger people "get it" as we saw when they turned out to vote for Obama. Perhaps we're going to have to wait for a couple of generations to die off before the vision of a better, more just society can come about.

[KharmaTrain]

17. You've Hit On A Big Point...

Yes, many have been dumbed down or numbed...misinformation and spin by the corporate media has done a lot to hurt this country. The internet and the netroots have been a positive step that has changed the way many get their information and bypass the corporate media filter, but it's still small...but growing. There will be big changes in the years to come...print media will all but vanish and broadcasting will be more "on demand" rather than being stuck with what the corporates want you to hear.

I don't see a couple generations...and I've been very encouraged by the compassion and political activism in those under 30...hopefully the spearhead of future changes; many based on the experiences they're trying to survive now. The problems are both many and deeply entrenched, thus defeating the over-reach of corporate America is to continue to speak out, be involved...either financially or through elbow grease (or both) and to keep shining the light on their crimes and abuses...tightening the vise on our so-called leaders to take some real action.

Right now this administration is taking half-steps....which frustrated many (including me) as the polarization of our political system is so deep and, as we're seeing here, when the game isn't going your way, one blames and angsts rather than fighting. But fight we must and some of us will...bringing change through actions, not words.

Cheers...

[Romulox]

26. Who was I supposed to vote for last Nov. if I oppose "free trade" or war?

:hi:

[PVnRT]

33. What happens, though, when you have a choice between

a right-wing Republican and corporate right-leaning centrist Democrat? Elections are nice if there are real choices to choose from, not so much when it's the slightly lesser of two evils.

[KharmaTrain]

41. You Keep Working To Change That...

Sorry no quick fix...and I've seen it happen in my area. One great example is the district of Gym Teach Denny Hastert...it's now in the very capable hands of Progressive Bill Foster. He overcame a lot of odds with help from the netroots and lots of boots on the ground...not only won the special election but a full term last November. A decade ago my district was crimson red, but through building a strong local party, I have no rushpublicans representing me...not even dog catcher.

Damn thing is we've got those losers on the ropes...another big loss next November will all but crumble what's left of that corrupt party. The Conservo-Dems also either have to be forced to represent their constituents rather than their contributors. As the netroots grows, so will the rise of progressive candidates.

[conscious evolution]

11. Just ignore them

They are no longer listening to us.I think it is time for us to quit listening or having anything to do with them.

[Demeter]

15. Passive Resistance--Boycotts

Identify a target, publicize it, and refuse to give it anything.

Sue the hell out of corporations with class action lawsuits, if they can still be done.

Run grassroots campaigns for everything up to federal office.

Send NO money to any organization that screws people. Like the DLC, DSCC, etc.

And General Strike for things like Single Payer. A National Day of Screw You.

[lazer47]

18. That worked real well for the people of the USSR,,,

for say about 50 yrs,,,:sarcasm:

[Demeter]

24. The USSR did not engage in such tactics on either side

[tomm2thumbs]

19. don't they say stand back and let your enemies destroy themselves?

or at least assist them with creating factions inside of their group to get it started :)

[Orsino]

20. No such thing as a bloodless revolution.

We're dying already.

We should push for as much peaceful change as we can get.

[LiberalEsto]

21. Get the computer people to strike

If the internet goes down, people will get the message.

[The_Commonist]

22. Walk away.

Stop using their services.
Stop buying their products.
Stop voting for them.
Build communities and be self-sufficient and interdependent.
Marginalize the bad people and the bad ideas.

It's not going to happen, though, and we are going to destroy ourselves instead.
Too bad, really.
We had a pretty good run...

[Cyrano]

44. Okay, let's not use super markets, gas stations, electricity, or

anything else that the "THEMS" own or control.

Actually, this concept was tried in the '60s. They were called communes and no matter how idealistic the original intent, they failed. Most had fallen apart by the mid '70s. And the worst of the worst communes ended up being ripe for the pickings of people like Charles Manson and his ilk.

(The only place I know of where communes worked was in Israel in the years after WWII. They were called kibbutz's. They were formed to assimilate European Jews who survived the Holocaust. They came their with no assets other than their skills and what was left of their sanity. At that time, the goal was basic survival. And it worked. They ended up building the only democracy in the middle east.)

In any case, I admire your suggestion. If only the human species wasn't so screwed up, it just might work.

[Romulox]

25. It's not possible. Violence is creative, as well as destructive.

They are two sides of the same coin.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

27. Massive Civil disobedience

day after day-

[Echo In Light]

32. Yes, although it will take a lot more grief to coax Americans into awakening from slumber

... and even then, say, if things got really ugly here, for whatever reasons, there's always the VERY real inevitability that many people would simply fall in line w/what Power wants, including the targeting, directly or indirectly, of dissidents, as can be seen right here on DU all the time.

[Ghost Dog]

28. Don't forget to rec. to bring the subject up to DU's attention,

briefly, and fight the unrec. trolls.

[Echo In Light]

31. Without a national platform to reach the masses, forget it. Biz As Usual controls the mindset

[anonymous171]

65. Local Activism works a lot better. National movements are pretty overrated. nt

[Echo In Light]

71. Well, look at the numerous BIG marches/rallies on East Coast...

... over the past decade...yet I know I didn't hear a word about em within the mainstream discourse of my rural 'fly-over' area, and am guessing it's likely the same in most towns/cities - which is precisely why the M$M gives such scant coverage to anti-war rallies, while milking tea bagging events for all they're worth (seeding the public mind)

[lonestarnot]

34. I have given this much thought, but do not have the answer.

Strikes and pay stoppage cannot be organized with gutless wonders. Comfort levels still remain for 2/3's. We are just fucked. That's it. :(

[Scruffy1]

53. You are so right

Half baked ideas on national strikes and boycotts have never worked out well in the US. In the sixties millions protested and the war went on. Although I love to protest and still do at 60+ I knew then and know now that it won't change a thing. Power is never going to give in without force. Quite simply the average American is amazingly ignorant and the blue collar types get most of their information from talk radio.
On the positive side I see a community building from the populace which I think will be accelerated by the Obama administration. As the voters come to realize that only small change is possible under our current plutocracy more will come to the realization that our methods of distribution are fatally flawed and that we need to create a new coalition to speak for the people. No single answer like campaign finance reform will accomplish this, but rather it must come from the bottom through education and activism. Yes, I voted for Obama and even campaigned for him, but did so knowing the reality of America that the plutocracy will always trump a President or Congress. Always has and always will. Just look at the disgusting mess of health care. If that doesn't wake a few people up I don't know what will.

[akwapez]

35. Many good starting points mentioned in this thread

Unfortunately, I think AllentownJake is right and the system will collapse upon itself before any real change can occur. But, there are a few other things to try.
National strikes.
Massive civil disobedience.
Boycotts.
STOP using credit cards.
Transition back to a simpler way of life.
Vote with our wallets.
Stop propping up the thieves - pull any money out of stocks. Use it to pay down debt or invest in something tangible.

While it would be helpful if there was an organizer for the revolt, small steps can be a start.

Yes. WE. Can. (but don't expect help from Washington, until we remind them who is in charge)

[moondust]

40. Start over in the New World.

Wherever that is.

[Ghost Dog]

67. Now, that's irony.

:thumbsup:

(Be aware that we are very aware, over here). :rofl:

[Pab Sungenis]

42. Back to the Greatest Page with you.

Hopefully enough people will rec this now so that the Blue DUgs can't push it back down again.

[Better Today]

43. There are ways, but it would take tons of us and group unity and

I'm not convinced anyone really has the cajones for any of it.

1. Banks and Wall St. and the related insurance companies.
a. The problem is that only "failing" folks are giving these banks any grief regarding the lost paperwork on loans. One thing that can be done is for EVERYONE who has a mortgage that isn't registered at the county as a lien, notices need to be given the bank by each and every one of us, show us the loan in 90 days or we quit paying.

b. A nationwide boycott on paying credit card bills that indicate an over 15% interest rate, even for those of use that either pay off our cards monthly (ie pay no interest, but would pay over 15% if we let it float). Again it would have to be nearly everyone who have cards from Citi, and some of the other scummers who've raised their rates to high. Again, if only people having trouble paying their bills do this, no good, but if everyone does it together, there'd be too many and too much for the banks to handle.


Just like union strikes, though, we have to have so many people participating that no one get pegged, instead putting the entire burden of problems on the banks, who are connected to Wall Street and those AIG type insurers. The great thing about my idea is that it won't hurt small local banks, they've usually done their lien filings and don't rely on MIN#s. It should only hurt (cripple hopefully) the big banks that have bought packages of loans and who have these outrageous credit card deals.

[Bonobo]

45. I think a massive worker's strike is the only way.

Everyone.

[Mari333]

49. the american empire will go the way of all empires

broke, destroyed, and bring itself down. patience. europe rose back up and became mostly socialistic countries that take care of their people, after they destroyed themselves by being empires. same will happen here. maybe not in my lifetime, but it will happen.

[bvar22]

50. My Wife & I went "On Strike" in 2006.

We bought property in The Woods with plenty of clean water, a long growing season, low cost of living, and low property taxes.

We've reduced our "Taxable Income" to a very low level, and it will be even lower next year.
We pay no mortgage, don't use credit, and don't tithe to the Insurance Corporations.

We buy almost nothing NEW.
What we can't make ourselves, we buy or barter 2nd hand/salvage and make it work...or do without.

WE grow a good percentage of our food, raise chickens, and keep HoneyBees.
What we can't produce ourselves we buy in bulk and cook from scratch.

Our focus has become local Humanitarian Issues, and ways to deny funding to Corporate America and their bought politicians in Washington. If the Democratic Party is going to Bail Out Wall Street and keep the WARS going, they will do so without our help.

WE are no longer Good American Consumers.

Next year, we will "consume" even less.

We realize we are very fortunate in being able to do this.
We are both strong and healthy, have no dependents, and have a combined skill set that makes this fun.
We enjoy living this way, but its not for everyone.



"I don’t represent the big oil companies. I don’t represent the big pharmaceutical companies.
I don’t represent the Enrons of this world. But you know what?
They already have great representation in Washington.
It’s the rest of the people that need it.”
---Paul Wellstone’s Last Commercial

[ipaint]

57. My husband and I did it without the means to buy land.

To borrow partially from you :)

We've reduced our "Taxable Income" to a very low level, and it will be even lower next year.
We pay no mortgage, rent a tiny studio apt within walking distance of needed services (PO, veggie stand, groceries, library), don't use credit, and don't tithe to the Insurance Corporations.

We buy almost nothing NEW.
What we can't make ourselves, we buy or barter 2nd hand/salvage and make it work...or do without.
If we do need to buy we buy locally from a small business if possible.
We shop only for the food we need to cook all our own meals from scratch. I also container garden to supplement.

We are constantly working on detaching ourselves further from the consumer lifestyle.

As an artist I have a very small business online, all my work is created digitally and shipped via email.


Our motto is starve the beast. We won't be a part of it anymore.

[bvar22]

75. The only way to WIN....

..is to stop playing the rigged game.
Learn to Live Well on less.
:toast:

BTW: We have never been happier.

[Toucano]

83. Congratulations

We have all got to learn to live another way, to one extent or another.

Otherwise nothing will ever change.

Thank you.

[bigtree]

51. It's still going to be necessary to employ every instigation of our democracy

. . . the deeper the corruption or malfeasance, the more urgent the need to exercise every lever of democracy we can manage. I'd start with Congress. It may seem hopeless, but to leave the room (as some have despaired) and let all of the negative influences have the floor is not a solution. As my friend Guy Washington used to say, 'good always leaves, but bad comes to stay.'

There's no guarantee that a 'revolution' is going to be foolproof, or, even a panacea. The most effective revolution, in my view, is vigilance.

[Sebastian Doyle]

56. Eventually a revolution IS coming to this country.

If the teabaggers and Oily Twatz types are leading it, we would NOT like the results. Far better if it comes from our side, so we actually get a country we can live in out of the deal.

[arcadian]

62. Actually a revolution wouldn't need to be from either side.

It would have to be from both "sides". If the right and left came together against corporate power it would have them shitting bricks.

[Sebastian Doyle]

63. But is that possible?

For example, you can get Kucinich supporters and Ron Paul supporters to agree that foreign occupations are bullshit, and that the "federal" reserve is a huge fucking scam. Probably would agree on drug policy as well.

Not much beyond that though. The right wingers equate anything "socialized" with the ghost of the fucking Soviet Union and their solution would be to privatize and deregulate everything. On the other hand, I'm on the same page with Thom Hartmann and Mike Malloy when it comes to what should be "socialized" in this country. Health care, the banks, energy, and infrastructure, basically.

[arcadian]

70. Yeah, fuck it. Wedge issues are just that, wedge issues.

Most people can see that the Federal Government's relationship to the corporate state is the real problem. Until we get the corporations out of the People's government there will be no change.

[Echo In Light]

72. Right is synonymous w/Corporate power, even if the party's registrants fail to accurately identify

[Ghost Dog]

77. Looks to my eyes like what's happening

over there.

(Thanks for the telescope/microscope, DU)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmkhknKBxY0

[anonymous171]

64. Focus on local/state elections. Democracy is most effective at the smaller levels

[kctim]

73. The left vs right revolution going on

between the people must end, before revolution against government can begin.

[Greyhound]

74. The only way I see requires first that many more people learn what is going on and

how it is supposed to be, i.e. the concept of a nation of free individuals cooperating for the sake of community.

Then we can destroy their system by not participating. If even 10% - 15% of the population quit playing, the system would collapse.

[BigBluenoser]

76. What I find interesting about this here thread...

Is how much it reads like some others I've read on boards of a far different political persuasion.

Buy only american, reduce your taxable income, stop propping up the banks, stop spending money, stop being materialistic, stop outsourcing etc., stop watching football and DO SOMETHING. Yup they wanna do it for due to different ideological beliefs, but they wanna do it. Heck, a lot (most?) of the homesteader movement are flat earth types but they end up doing the same things as others do for other reasons and a ton of them do it "organically" (or try).

If you wanna get stuff done in America you need to find a way to get folks together without worrying about their "holistic ideology" and just worry about those few things that your organization wants to get done/change. Consider it to be post-bi-partisanship, circumvent both parties because they are just too damned reified and do nothing but divide. You can't convince a Republican of a Democrat position if you fall into framing it as a left / right issue. Just leave ideology out of it, and think of lots of good reasons for doing things, and make sure you don't fall into the language traps of either side's vocabulary. It don't hurt to try.

Or the politically active/interested net based pseudo intelligentsia of both parties can scream at each other, view them as The Great Satan, and masturbate about a shooting war/people's revolution/riots in the streets/burning down wall street etc. Fuck the parties, fuck the ideology and take the people.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

81. How many who have participated in this thread would put it on the line?

Risk arrest for civil disobedience or civil resistance?

How many here on DU would for that matter?

Who has the resources to? It costs money to get to a protest, or to post bail.

Would anyone consider doing these things if they had the resources or if
someone offered to assist financially?

[PuraVidaDreamin]

82. How many who have participated in this thread would put it on the line?

Risk arrest for civil disobedience or civil resistance?

How many here on DU would for that matter?

Who has the resources to? It costs money to get to a protest, or to post bail.

Would anyone consider doing these things if they had the resources or if
someone offered to assist financially?

[Angry Dragon]

84. You show them your anger

Bullies are afraid of anger. They do not expect you to fight back. Anger is a useful tool when it is used for betterment. You fight back in the same manner they fight you.

[Angry Dragon]

85. You asked how to do it........this just my opinion on this

You attack the money first. You forget about labels. You forget for the time being the smaller, but important items. The more items you work on at first dilute the plan. You talk and hear the other side, the other side being republicans. You forget about them being wackos that do not want what you want because they are as bad off as anyone.

The biggest problem that faces this country right now is money disparity. You attack the money. You enlist anyone that feels this way and forget the rest for the time being. You can go out and work for gay rights, better schools, freedom from/of religion, any nmber of things and you will have gained nothing because you will still have the money disparity. You set your goals in a very narrow area. You enlist anyone that feels that the money should be attacked. No matter what party, religion, race, job, etc. You make it a equal opportunity fight. The haves against the have-nots.

You break up anything that is too big to fail. You limit mergers. You stop outsourcing. You attack and you attack. You fight them the same way they attack you. It is this way or a bloody way. They will not give up their power willingly. You will have to fight for it. You set limits on congress, you make them live under the same laws as you. They do not have anything that they do not give to the people.

Enough rant for now. Attack me if you wish. But please tell me what you would change in my words.

[HughBeaumont]

87. Fear of Arrest.

One arrest in America, even for a misdemeanor, will essentially end your working life.

Europeans don't care because they have better social safety nets and they also have universal health care; they're also more unionized.

European governments also fear their people, not the other way around. Americans are so tethered and indentured to their jobs, they absolutely cannot lose them under any circumstance.

Corporations own us lock, stock and barrel, and we're too scared of ARREST, ARREST, ARREST to resist or overtake them. We think marching on Washington when cable networks won't broadcast it is going to do some good.