To Those Who Say "The Public Won't- Doesn't-Can't Support" SINGLE-PAYER I Say BULLSHIT!!!

[Orwellian_Ghost]

July 2009

Kaiser Health Tracking Poll

Do you favor or oppose, "Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance through an expanded, universal form of Medicare-for all?"

Favor 58%,

Oppose 38%, NA/DK 3%

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

July 2009

Time Magazine

Would you favor or oppose a program that creates a national single-payer plan similar to Medicare for all, in which the government would provide healthcare insurance to all Americans?

Favor 49%,

Oppose 46%, NA/DK 5%

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

Feb.
2009

Grove Insight Opinion Research

"When given a choice of the current system or one "like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers," voters overwhelmingly chose the latter.

A solid majority (59%) say they would prefer a national health insurance program that covers everyone, over the current system of private insurance offered to most through their employer."

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

Feb.
2009

New York Times/CBS News Poll

Americans are more likely today to embrace the idea of the government providing health insurance than they were 30 years ago.

59% say the government should provide national health insurance, including 49% who say such insurance should cover all medical problems.

http://www.wpasinglepayer.org/PollResults.html

Single Payer Ballot Question Passes by Landslide in 10 Districts

In an election that has brought out the highest voter turnout in Massachusetts probably since 1928, local ballot initiatives supporting single payer and opposing individual mandates passed by landslide margins in all ten legislative districts where they appeared. With almost all precincts tallied, roughly 73 percent of 181,000 voters in the ten districts voted YES to the following:

“Should the representative from this district be instructed to support legislation creating a cost-effective single payer health insurance system that is available to all residents, and oppose laws penalizing those who fail to obtain health insurance?”

The measure passed with margins ranging from 65 percent in the Fifth Middlesex to 82 percent in the Third Hampshire.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/november/single_payer_ballot_.php

Apr. 2008

Quinnipiac Poll in PA, FL, OH

9. Do you think it's the government's responsibility to make sure that everyone in the United States has adequate health-care, or don't you think so?

In Pennsylvania; Yes 65%,

No 31%, NA/DK 4%

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1164

Most doctors support national health insurance, new study shows

A study published in today’s Annals of Internal Medicine, a leading medical journal, reports that a survey conducted last year of 2,193 physicians across the United States showed 59 percent of them “support government legislation to establish national health insurance,” while 32 percent oppose it and 9 percent are neutral.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/march/most_doctors_support.php

Dec. 2007

AP - Yahoo Poll

14. "Which comes closest to your view?

34% - The United States should continue the current health insurance system in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance

65% - The United States should adopt a universal health insurance program in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that is run by the government and financed by taxpayers

2% - Refused / Not Answered"

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/december/where_are_we_on_refo.php

Feb. 2007 New York Times/CBS News Poll

Public opinion on health care reform

27. Do you think the federal government should guarantee health insurance for all Americans, or isn't this the responsibility of the federal government?

64% - Guarantee

27% - Not responsibility
9% - DK/NA

30. If you had to choose, which do you think is more important for the country to do right now, maintain the tax cuts enacted in recent years or make sure all Americans have access to health care?
18% - Cutting taxes

76% - Access to health insurance

1% - Neither
2% - Both
4% - DK/NA

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2007/march/public_opinion_on_he.php

[Captain Hilts]

1. Voters are more progressive than the Prez and Congress. nt

[TicketyBoo]

2. Exactly.

Congress counts on those big insurance companies for the campaign contributions to get reelected. Simple as that.

[Jackpine Radical]

21. Damn right they are.

I guess the corporations neglected to bribe the general public, huh?

As I watch the health care debacle unfold, I keep wondering what happens when people finally catch on to how fucked the system really is. Every day it's becoming clearer that all Republicans and about 50% of the Democrats in Congress are corrupt tools of the Corporate State.

[bertman]

24. Voters aren't getting lobbying dollars from Big Insurance and Big Pharma.

[TwilightZone]

3. I haven't seen anyone claim that the *public* won't support it, at least not on DU.

Congress, however, will not support it, especially the Senate. There are currently a grand total of four Senators that support single-payer.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

I've seen it regularly

I've been told this point blank on this forum by several of the posters who defend this crap bill being shoved down our throats.

Here's one example and a mild one at that, there are many others:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6977324&mesg_id=6979868

[TwilightZone]

10. Mild, indeed, considering that it appears that the poster is on the side of single-payer.

As I mentioned, the challenge isn't the public. The challenge is the Senate. We need at least 46 more votes than we currently have.

[Hannah Bell]

8. I have. regularly.

[Oregone]

4. People construct fake political "realities"

Sometimes it serves them as excuses

[Captain Hilts]

9. Yes. I try to ignore politicians and look at policy. I don't always succeed, but often enough. nt

[Mari333]

5. I have reached a point, this week, actually

where I had to face reality. I didnt like it, but, there it is. Reality. means. The Dems are just as bought off by corporate interests as the Republicans. I.E, except for Sanders and Kucinich, I am pretty much done with the rest of them. I am sadly now realizing that we are a military empire, and, as history has taught me, military empires must go thru horrific decades of destruction of themselves. Bankruptcy, famine, inner ruination. I dont think the USA has grown up. they have chosen their course,.
They, both parties, have chosen the vision of being a military empire.
Okay, fine, let them have it.
France, England, Spain, Germany all chose that route once.
Now, its our turn.
we will go down in flames like they did. Than, they chose , after they went down in flames, to rise up and become socialistic countries that decided NOT to be military empires. they chose to take care of their people.

I will probably not see the USA change. I am too old. But at least I can , from now on, vote my conscience. and the dems and republicans are both, most of them, to me, pawns for corporate interests. that includes the military.

I give up. Let the chips fall where they may.

[glitch]

33. I am with you. And we gave them a far greater chance to grow up than they deserved.

No regrets but it is over.

[winyanstaz]

44. I hear you....

We have been "played" to death..

[Greyhound]

48. Agreed.

:shrug:
:thumbsup:

[inna]

6. i think i'm done with Obama at this point.

[dionysus]

30. yeah, totally his fault the way the senate votes.

he was supposed to eliminate all corruption in the government in 6 months.
:eyes:

[Fire1]

35. Good one. n/t

[JoeyT]

54. Sure he was.

Of course it was too much to ask of him to push for single payer or a real public option too. Leadership is too much bother.
Involving the insurance companies and pharmaceutical industry certainly didn't help his credibility much.

I didn't ask that he end it. I asked he try not to be too much a part of it. Which was far too much to expect, it turns out.

[robinlynne]

7. what do we know, we're only citizens...

[Nite Owl]

11. Whatever they chose, it isn't

about us. It's all just political theater. Good cop, bad cop.

[PHIMG]

12. The only problem is the corporate implants with D's next to thier names in Congress n/t

[Fire1]

36. Oh please! There are far bigger issues than that. n/t

[PHIMG]

40. Like what?

Corporate-implanted Democrats in our Congress routinely veto big pieces of the Democratic Platform and we as a party should just look the other way? Please! Wake up.

[Fire1]

42. It ain't happening and not because of the "bluedogs."

Single payer is a threat to capitalism. It's just that simple.

[PHIMG]

58. Yes and Medicare brought us Communism too! Just like Saint Ronnie told us.

Whatever. Keep repeating right-wing frames.

[Fire1]

66. You need to get a grip on who owns and runs this country.

Whatever, is right. Wake up, Dude.

[PHIMG]

67. So just bend over and take it, right?

Good thing the people who took to the streets in the 30s weren't spineless wimps like you are.

[Fire1]

69. I don't consider myself a spineless whimp. Just realistic.

I fought, marched and boycotted during the sixties and seventies. It's one thing to fight for civil liberties such as civil rights legislation and quite another to try and over throw a government system that is firmly entrenched. Fortunately, most people can make that obvious distinction and consider PO one heck of a victory.

[RufusTFirefly]

13. Sorry, but if it isn't on my TV news, it isn't true.

:sarcasm:

(captioned for the obtuse)

[subterranean]

14. The American people are un-American.

[timtom]

16. LOL!

Good one!

[clear eye]

15. Thank you for showing the data on public support of single payer. n/t

[lwcon]

17. To be fair

To pass single-payer, that might require some leadership on the part of the Democratic Party.

Isn't that too much to ask?

[blindpig]

18. k&r n/t

[comtec]

19. Has there ever been a time where there was NOT public support?

seriously, I think for the last 60 years (since FDR, who failed) if you explain it correctly - IE you go in, get taken care of , and leave no costs just an additional 4% tax, or it's even paid by your 8% soc sec w/o a ceiling - The majority 50%+ have always been in favor of this.

It's the couching of the question, and the gop has gotten viciously good over the last century at that :(

It's so sad how poor, destitute americans are tricked into voting agaisnt their own interests, if they vote at all.

[JoeyT]

53. Who are the poor and destitute supposed to vote for?

Who has their best interests at heart?
I don't see our side doing much more for them than the Republicans. Historically we did, but historically the Republicans were the party of Lincoln.

[comtec]

59. Name one thing the rethugs have doen for the poor?

off the top of my head I can think of several things Dems have done:
(with the help of)

medicare
Welfare
minimum wage (unions)
40-hour work week (unions)
Labor laws (unions)
Civil liberties for women and minorities
Public Works programs in the 30's
GI Bill
Cash for Clunkers

all things done withOUT the support of the gop. There may have been the off thug that followed his principals, but by in large, all these have been over the protests of the $$$ gop.

"There is nothing more dangerous to the (gop) government than a well informed populace" -Ronald Regan

[JoeyT]

62. It depends on how far back in history you're willing to go.

The Emancipation Proclamation helped the poor if you go back far enough.

Like I said, traditionally we were the party that fought for the poor and the middle class. Now we seem to be afraid to fight those battles because they might cost us votes. Can't look too liberal or people might not invite us to the party. In other words, I want us to be the party that does those kind of things again, instead of the party that tries to be as conservative as possible lest we offend some ex-Republicans that might join us.

Would we honestly be willing to fight the battles for most of those things now?

[comtec]

63. We ARE fighting for those thing now!

And, I'm all in favor of leaving the Dems and creating a new 3rd party that IMHO represents the actual will of the people... LABOR!

I am all for creating a Labor party, fuck the dsms, fuck the thugs, fuck the libertarians-who-hate-everyone!

Labor, because that's what the bottom 90% are!

[bluethruandthru]

20. I would bet the figures would be much, much higher

if more people really understood single payer. I think so many people have been told such blatant lies about single payer for so long that they honestly believe it's evil. Too many Americans get their information almost exclusively from right wing radio, Fox news and maybe the nightly news once in awhile. The MSM usually refers to anything remotely related to single payer (or even a public option) as a "controversial liberal plan".

[Libertas1776]

22. Hear! Hear!

:applause:

[spanone]

23. don't you know that congress knows what's best for us, sit down and shuddup

:sarcasm:

[PVnRT]

25. K&R

The "realists" really need to see this thread.

[leftstreet]

26. K&R

[Uncle Joe]

27. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Orwellian_Ghost.

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. IF the majority of Americans knew who pays their medical bills and what their insurance costs.......

They'd be in favor of government-provided healthcare.

Ask some high school seniors what they know about healthcare...
Or better yet, ask your everyday working stiff that sits in a cubicle all day what his insurance costs his employer.

You'll see what I mean.

[truedelphi]

29. The problem is not how many of us support SPUHC, the problem is zero

Percent of all insurers support it.

And they are the ones that fill up the campaign coffers.

[dionysus]

31. you kicked that strawman's ass. it's the house and the senate that won't support it.

[redqueen]

34. LOL... +1

Hopefully the public will start paying more attention to candidates and elections (not just the general elections).

[Desertrose]

32. K & R!!

[ipaint]

37. The reason single payer is ALWAYS shelved ahead of time

is the fact that if it was ever seriously considered, the ins. co.s don't stand a chance in hell of stopping it's implementation. The support would be overwhelming. If they tried to stop it once the idea of a single payer system was presented as feasible as any of the other policy options, they'd be signing their own death warrants.

We certainly would have ended up with a strong, viable public option to build on.

[TheKentuckian]

38. My opinion is and has been that the support is soft

but the real problem is Congress is nowhere close to that soft support. Maybe it is about where I live though that makes me believe support isn't firm since even the most liberal people I know (who are MUCH more liberal than the general population) aren't strong on single payer either.

I'm the most pro-single payer person I know and its not even close.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

39. I actually think the support is extremely strong

One thing to think about is how amazing it is that the support, in the general populace, is as large and broad-based as it is when considering the vast amounts of propaganda put forth by the Insurance Industry and the US Political Class.

Given even the most surface explanation, on a regular basis, as to the benefits of single-payer we would see those numbers rise significantly.

[cascadiance]

41. Yup, most of us are with the "far left" MAJORITY of Americans who support this!

no matter how much those Faux News stooges try to marginalize most American's sentiment on this issue!

[mdmc]

43. the public will support it .. the corporations won't

[winyanstaz]

45. And that is why Congress is selling us out...

Corporations own them

[kctim]

46. Votes show where the public stands on the issues, not polls

and the fact is that the people have not yet elected "progressive" types who support single-payer into office.

If you want a closer representation of how the public feels on the issue, then cover all areas of the country and ask just one simple question: Would you accept a ?% tax increase in order to pay for a govt ran healthcare plan for all? Would still be kind of pointless though, because the unemployed person who is polled now may vote differently if they are employed come election day.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

47. Elections in this country

are a sham.

They are corporate controlled spectacles. Big business runs the elections so your connection to how people vote is tenuous at best.

The vested interests aren't about to let a true progressive anywhere near elected office, at least at the federal level. In short you've left a gigantic chunk of the equation the most relevant part, out of our calculation as relates to "how people vote."

[kctim]

52. Sham or not

elections are what is used to place people in those decision making positions. And blaming 'vested interests' seems like nothing more than one refusing to accept that their position is not shared by the majority.

Hell, even if your premise is correct and some faceless big business does run the elections and convinces people to vote against single-payer even though they really want it, doesn't that tell you that its not as important to them as you think it is?

Face it man, in order to get single-payer, you are first going to have to get 'progressives' elected, and in order to get them elected you have got to convince the people to vote for them in elections.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

56. What are you talking about?

You have to be completely asleep to miss the part of lobbyists, campaign coffers, electoral obstacles and that's just the start.

Have you ever actually researched what it takes to simply get ballot access in the byzantine system of federal politics? Even at the state level it's rather burdensome. Where do you think these people get the money to build the machinery to do all the work it takes to get elected to a higher office?

And in case you aren't paying attention elections are only the last piece of the puzzle and the least significant. The pre-selection process is far more revealing as to how big business controls the lever long before you pull it.

There is quite a lot of material on this stuff so please look into this.

[kctim]

64. Of course they all play a part

but not a single one of them is more powerful than votes and IF 70-80 percent of the American people really wanted single-payer, as we are being told daily they do, we would have it.

Big business and all that stuff can influence elections, but they CANNOT control how we vote, and if the people are willing to vote for the candidate who is against single-payer because he promises them something else, then single-payer does not have the support it needs to become law.

The ONLY solution is to get the people to vote for 'progressives' man, because blaming big biz, lobbyists and everything else doesn't seem to be working all that well.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

49. No, we're saying Congress won't support it.

Huge difference.

[fascisthunter]

50. of course it's bullshit.... the hacks in Congress

need a reason to fuck us over so they can say, see, we tried, but nobody really wanted it.

[abelenkpe]

51. Most would welcome single payer

especially in this economic climate.

OT but:

The other thing I heard last nite on MSNBC was that the senate felt people didn't support the public option because they were worried they wouldn't be able to keep their health care.

How stupid is that?
How many different ways do we need to say: You can keep your overpriced private health insurance sucker, that is....if you can keep your job. Why is it that the same people who are worried about keeping their private health care are the same ones supporting lower taxes and no oversight for the very corporations eager to offshore their job?

[pleah]

55. K&R

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/218746/72796306?m=e56504ed :)

[Brigid]

57. How can anyone know . . .

that the public wouldn't support single-payer when it was never really on the table in the first place? :banghead:

[1]

60. ah! a poll watcher... do you understand now that polls don't mean shit?

watch your polls, don't get me wrong, do that. that is something you can do.

but your polls don't mean shit.

you know what does mean shit? how the people elected to office vote. representatives.

yes. that is the only thing that counts. the only thing.

so... show me some polls. outstanding. those are some great polls. you have outdone yourself with those polls. great polls. well done, you...



don't mean shit...

[nightrain]

61. nice con game some have tried to play. Take the money out of Congress

and single payer proponents might have a chance. Until then, we've been outspent.

[unaffiliated liberal]

65. This is pretty ironic

When I opened this post to read it there's an ad at the top for some group saying "Keep your hands of my health care" with a photo of a line at the DMV office, suggesting that if government takes over health care you'll be waiting to see your doctor like you do at the DMV office.

Only one problem. Here in NJ there was no wait at the DMV office when the government ran it under Florio. When Whitman came in and "privatized" the DMV there were lines around the block. Wait times for auto inspection were over six hours.

I'm on Medicare. I don't wait to see my doctor and last year when I needed surgery it was scheduled almost immediately, so fast in fact I had to rush to get the pre-op tests done in time.

This government hands off health care bullshit is just another ploy by the people who deny you health care to keep their profits and bonuses. Single-payer, Medicare for all, whatever you want to call it, is the ONLY way to truly reform health care.

[Overseas]

68. K&R. Thanks for compiling info on public support for national health insurance.

Such a pity that our legislators don't promote what we want.

Our desire for a single payer option became a key element in election 08 because the triggers of decency had all blown off their hinges with private health insurance-- millions more were dropped from coverage, millions more were bankrupted by medical bills--

and still, with Democratic majorities and our popular president elected to bring about "Change We Can Believe In," we had to pretend that we needed to start without the most economical, efficient option of opening up Medicare to all, because the country just wasn't ready for it.

The House bill was supposed to be more liberal, with a robust public option, because those bills are considered "DOA" upon arrival at the Senate. And we couldn't even get that.

We are supposed to be glad that at least something passed and we are "on the road" to real reform. And I understand that some reform which helps some people is important because we have millions of desperate people after decades of privatized health care exploitation. We are desperate for any reform we can get.

But I had a secret naive hope that having exposed the corporate funding behind those right wing PR created "genuine grass roots" protests in August, Democrats would say they had had enough. They would publicly acknowledge that the triggers of decency had been blown off their hinges, first by insurance company profiteering and next by insurance company funding of right wing rallies that stirred up dangerous fear and hatred in vulnerable people just to protect their private profits. Our Democrats would stand up and say, Enough is enough! The public option will be Medicare Part E, open to anyone who chooses it.

Instead, my Democrats are still pretending the USA just isn't ready for freedom from the terror of medical expenses. Pretending that while we pay billions of tax dollars for wars that decrease our national security, we just aren't ready for our taxes to pay to make health care a human right rather than a special privilege. It has been painful watching my Democrats go along with the right wing that doesn't want taxpayers to feel the immediate deep sense of security Medicare for All would provide.

The right wing has been trying to crush all traces of FDR for decades now because his policies showed how government could be beneficial and help people. I was wishing that our new president and Democratic majorities could come in, on the heels of the Bush Gang disasters, and go strongly FDR because our country needs that Second Bill of Rights. The bailouts for the financial sector gave them the cover they needed-- our people have seen the wealthy bailed out, now they need help-- the least we can do is open up Medicare. And instead we've been treated to so much deference to corporate power that it boggles the mind, or at least depresses me very significantly.

The Bush Depression provided Democrats with a great opportunity to push the change our citizens desperately need-- Medicare for All and a nationwide green jobs program, but the right wing professional anti-good-government PR campaigns provided excuses to go along with corporate power, and sadly, my Democrats caved.

[librechik]

70. Everytime I hear somebody say "it's too politically difficult"

i want to throw my shoe at them.