tonight the state of virginia murdered a murderer

[spanone]

all square? :shrug:








http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/10/virginia.sniper.execution/index.html

[Avalux]

1. I think my sig line is appropriate for this thread.

[malaise]

15. +1

:puke:

[lonestarnot]

73. +2

[-..__...]

2. Meh...

:nopity:

[amerstates]

3. I call it closure for the family & One less mass murderer to feed. NT

[Bluebear]

6. Thoughtful.

:eyes:

[marmar]

12. This place is getting increasingly daft.....

nt

[EFerrari]

27. Then you might be interested in The Closure Myth

http://www.closuremyth.com/

[michreject]

91. From the husband of a victim

http://www.freep.com/article/20091111/NEWS07/911110459/1001/NEWS/D.C.-sniper-mastermind-is-executed

Nelson Rivera, whose wife, Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, was gunned down as she vacuumed her van at a Maryland gas station, said when he watched Muhammad's chest moving for the last time, he was glad.

"I feel better. I think I can breathe better, and I'm happy he's gone. Because he's not going to hurt anyone else."


This guy was happy the killer got executed.

[question everything]

84. These are never closures, as the families of victims soon find out (nt)

[FarPoint]

4. I'm satisfied.

:smoke:

[spanone]

53. murder is murder is murder is murder

[cliffordu]

5. Ever seen what a 5.56mm round does at the distances he was shooting from?

He killed for shits and giggles and ruined whole families forever......

Fuck him to hell and back. If they could dig him up and kill him again, I wouldn't squawk.

Sometimes ya just have to put your foot down.

[anonymous171]

17. That´s not the point.

The state just murdered a person that they had previously deemed undeserving of life. Do you see the potetential moral/legal repercussions of allowing the state to decide who lives and who dies?

[cliffordu]

40. I'm not sure in some cases that's a bad thing.

[BuddhaGirl]

95. you do know that innocent people have been executed, right?

the DP is flawed.

The DP is state-sponsored murder.

[cherokeeprogressive]

41. The jury decided his fate, not the state.

The judge simply agreed with the jury's recommendation.

[onenote]

71. do you see the potential moral/legal repercussions of allowing the state to decide

who is free and who is locked in a cage?

[customerserviceguy]

76. Are you saying that he didn't get a fair trial?

This was not an arbitrary killing by the state, he had full appeal rights that he exhausted.

His victims, on the other hand, didn't have as many chances as he did. And I include all who were caught in his web of terror.

[Paladin]

26. And Yet Some Of Our Resident Gun Nuts Criticized The Gun He Used.

It wasn't sufficiently Bad Ass to be a for-real sniper rifle, as far as they were concerned.

And no, I'm not making that up........

[deaniac21]

35. The Marines switched their sniper rifles to 300 win mag. 5.56

is a puny 60 grain bullet.

[cliffordu]

39. In Vietnam I used a .308....

The M-14 is still being used by snipers and seal teams in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[deaniac21]

61. They are also using the .338 Lapua Magnum and the .50 cal

Barrett.

[cliffordu]

68. I'd like to fire a barrett, just to see how far out I can hit something with one.

I was a great fucking shot when I was 18 (seriously, it's one thing I could really do in the fucking army...)

Now, not so much, but I'd still like to see what I could hit....

[Statistical]

82. 5.56mm isn't a sniper rifle and that is just the facts.

Of course "DC sniper" sells more advertising space than "moderate distance DC gunman" so you didn't expect the media to be accurate did you.

[sendero]

42. For once....

... I agree with you.

This FUCK bore as much relationship to a human being as a rabid dog does to Fido.

I'm glad the malfunctioning piece of shit cannot ruin anyone else's life.

I hope he was scared shitless as he faced meeting his maker.

Fuck that son of a bitch.

And all of you assholes that feel sorry for him, KISS MY FUCKING ASS.

Same for the Ft. Hood fuckwad. The military should have sent his douchebag ass packing years ago.

[cliffordu]

51. Yep - killing your mom in a fit of rage is one thing, killing a bunch of people

cause you're not getting your way in life is worthy of immediate execution.

[CRF450]

79. X2

If their is a hell, he's burning in it right now.

[baldguy]

7. All square? Not ever.

One murder isn't avenged or "corrected" or made even by another murder.

[usregimechange]

8. Lession: You can kill somebody if you have a good enough reason

[tblue]

19. So true. He was an awful man, but I think he actually got off easy.

I thnk life in prison is worse than death and he wasn't in the pen very long. Also, I don't believe in state-sanctioned killing.

Is it over?

[Mimosa]

89. You obviously don't know anybody in prison

TBlue, prison is very easy for many. That's why they violate parole to get back in. I have a recidivist nephew, had a former friend who both preferred inside to outside.

Inside there's no work, no bills to pay. Health care is free too. Climate control, routine. No surprises. Those who think guys in state or federal prison are tormented and pained just don't know.

[Mugu]

97. I know a fellow that is just as you describe. n/t

[AnOhioan]

9. All we did was lower ourselves to his level

[Sukie]

10. Don't forget to add, "IMHO". IMHO, I disagree. N/T

[usregimechange]

11. I don't think the state was at his level though

[Dreamer Tatum]

21. That would have required the state to kill him unawares, laugh about it, and then try to deny it

THAT would be lowering to his level.

[Bluerthanblue]

31. no, instead it's couched in pretty words, and done with the blessing

of 'the people'- which is worse, imo. His were the actions of an individual (with a disciple)- This was the action of a supposedly civilized society-

[Dreamer Tatum]

33. Society didn't trawl around in a car retrofitted to hide an assault rifle, looking for a guy to kill

I prefer the flowery language of final justice to the flatulent language used to fatuously justify keeping his useless hide alive.

[Bluerthanblue]

45. one is clearly the wrong thing to do- and something none of us are

condoning- the other is OUR response. NOTHING can undo what he did, all we just did was knowingly add to the pile of dead bodies.


Can't you wrap your mind around that?

To what end? So that revenge is satisfied?

[Dreamer Tatum]

47. We just differ. I respect your difference, however. nt

[onenote]

72. do you believe in punishment at all?

if you do, do you believe that punishments should fit the crime? and yet you don't believe that there is any crime for which death is the fitting punishment?

[paulsby]

22. no, we didn't

his level was murdering innocents going about in their day to day affairs, and terrorizing a community in the process

"our" (i'm not in virginia) level is executing a convicted multiple murderer, after due process.

i don't see those as the same "levels"

[jaysunb]

13. I so love " Christians."

:evilfrown:

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. Nope. not all square

The piece of shit scumbag who sold him the gun for cash under the table and then claimed it was "stolen" still is a free man. And god knows how many other criminals and psychos he's illegally armed.

[Raine]

16. No tears

I can't be a hypocrite and say I'm sad. In principle I'm against the death penalty but sometimes the crime is so bad I can't feel sorry for the one who committed it and is punished.

[Bobbieo]

23. If you remember, all of his other targets we're a prelude to

killing his ex-wife and he set the kid up to pull the trigger. Very calculating sob!!

[closeupready]

58. +1 I still feel obligated to speak out against the DP, but it has nothing to do with him,

and everything to do with us as a society.

[TransitJohn]

18. No, not square.

I still can't believe that a nation that prides itself for being founded upon liberty and freedom from tyranny would voluntarily cede to the state the power of ending citizens' lives. Crazy.

[sharesunited]

20. Every felon should have the right to voluntarily take the needle.

Life in prison is deliberately inhumane, with the knowing approval of the People.

[Mick Knox]

24. I oppose the death penalty BUT

there are other issues more worth our energy than this piece of garbage.

[Bluerthanblue]

25. in a great demonstration of 'our' hypocrisy-

and another trip around the downward spiral.

:shrug:

[Joe the Revelator]

28. Nope, he held an entire region hostage with fear for three weeks, murdered 16 or so people, and all

we got to do was kill him once.

[Bluerthanblue]

32. keep trying to convince yourself this is ok-

you'll never convince me- and many others.

Those who fight for the death penalty, should have to be the ones to administer it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

34. In cases like his, I'd administer it with a Miller High Life in the other hand

and a bucket of chicken at my feet.

[superduperfarleft]

38. Sure you would, tough guy. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

43. I would, and I am in no way tough. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

52. and I'd stand up against anyone

saying that taking YOUR life in return was ok-

Killing to stop killing DOESN'T work-

And no matter how satisfying it may be for you- it's still wrong.. disgusting hypocrisy.

[Dreamer Tatum]

54. Likewise, I'd advocate putting your killer to death. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

62. well, I'll keep fighting to make that impossible-

or at least illegal.
killing isn't an answer.

Death comes for everyone- all too soon.

[Dreamer Tatum]

63. fair enough nt

[Joe the Revelator]

36. I would have happly pushed the syringe on this guy

I lived in Fredricksburg when this went down, I had to take mine and my girlfriend's cars for gas, not knowing if I was coming back. Seriously, this is the case that made me change my view on killing mass murders. I don't feel bad about my stance at all.

[superduperfarleft]

44. I was as neck-deep in this as you, and I still oppose his execution.

Don't think you can shut everyone else up by pulling rank. I remember sitting in traffic on 495 while white vans were pulled over. I was less than a mile away when the migrant worker was detained at the gas station on Parham and Broad, and when SWAT teams were descending upon Richmond after the guy was killed outside the Ponderosa in Hanover. I was huddling between parked cars smoking a cigarette in Rockville as helicopters flew overhead.

This guy is a glorified shitbag, agreed, and while I'm not going to shed a single tear over his death, I'm able to recognize that capital punishment as an institution is flawed, and should be abolished.

[Joe the Revelator]

49. I'm not the one trying to shut anyone up by "pulling rank".

But I'm also not going to use this jerk to make my stand against the death penalty. He is much more deserving of his sentence then many who have gone before him

[Bluerthanblue]

57. so, he scared you and you

want him to pay???

Sorry Joe- that makes your 'stand' even more offensive to me.

What he did was awful. There is no way around that. We can't change what he did- we DID have some say in what "our" actions would be in response. And what do we do? We do what he did- we take another persons life prematurely, and with intent. We call our action "just us". And pretend it is something ...'good'.

:shrug:

I feel bad about your stance- but worse about our country's action.

There will come a day when this kind of thing is seen as the barbaric response that it is.
I'm sure of that.

[bikingaz]

59. I understand (not agree) your point but then what is your alternative?

Locking them up sounds like the only way for you. You can't ever parole or release this type of individual without making a mockery of those he killed in cold blood.

BTW Most convicts who escape the death penalty feel that they have pulled one over society, gotten ahead sort of speak.

[bik0]

29. If we eliminated capital punishment

the additional cost to keep them in prison for life would probably be offset by the cost savings of eliminating all the judicial maneuvers and gyrations that the gov't must go through to carry out the sentence. How many appeals and how much expense in court time of attorneys, judges, bailiffs, law enforcement, witnesses do these guys impose on the system in their efforts to delay the executioner? The execution does give some emotional relief to the collateral victims of their crimes - family members, victims who survived, law enforcement etc. Is one life worth the closure it brings to those affected? That's hard to measure but it seams selfish that someone lose their life in order for someone else to feel satisfied.

[Thickasabrick]

30. I know I'm in the minority, but after hearing his ex-wife talk about

the changes in him after the gulf war, I really do feel like he was mentally ill. For that reason, I was really sad they killed him. I wish we were more evolved than this.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. I honestly believe that if those who support the DP

actually had to administer it, people wouldn't be so quick to advocate killing to punish killing.

It's all too easy to let others do the deed- and go about our 'business' as if it's no big deal.



:shrug:

[superduperfarleft]

46. I say we show them on live TV.

Either we as a society would become disgusted enough that we ended capital punishment, or we would collectively enjoy it so much that we could wallow in our own filth together without all the nonsense about justice.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

50. I wish I could believe that

It is more likely they would just whip it out and start jerking off at the rush of having killed somebody and then hit the talk-show circuit.

[Kaleva]

48. I oppose the death penalty but feel no sympathy for him.

[liquid diamond]

55. unfuckingrec

Spare me your tears. I'll save my grief for the victims and their families.

[spanone]

56. good murder / bad murder / all murder sucks

[winyanstaz]

What part of "Thou shalt not kill" is it that people dont get?

I am against the death penalty.
Killing killers is still killing.
You cannot teach a society that killing is wrong by killing some of them.

[spanone]

65. i don't recall an asterik after that commandment.....

*except when state sanctioned

:shrug:

[onenote]

75. thou shalt not steal

But we punish people who commit some crimes by imposing monetary fines on them that are greater than the amount they stole. Isn't that stealing under the same logic that killing a murderer isn't punishment but killing?

[winyanstaz]

88. that is correct.

[SIMPLYB1980]

77. LoL! God doesn't get a say,

and I'm glad for that.

[winyanstaz]

60. What part of "Thou shalt not kill" is it that people dont get?

I am against the death penalty.
Killing killers is still killing.
You cannot teach a society that killing is wrong by killing some of them.

[Mari333]

64. gee and George Bush and his admin go scot free

for murdering millions of civilians. isnt that special...

[lib2DaBone]

66. This man deserved to die.. but as we send 40K more troops to Afghanistan...

I can only hope that the United States (as a civilization and society) looks in the mirror, and asks "Why"?

[provis99]

67. if the standard of "murder" is that the state killed someone,

then I guess all the killing we did of enemy soldiers in World War II was "murder", too? We are morally equivalent to the genocidal Nazis?

[MichaelHarris]

69. I'm fine with it

glad he's gone.

[LostInAnomie]

70. Meh. Fuck him.

Justice is hard to define, but him dying is closer to justice than sitting in prison for life.

[SIMPLYB1980]

74. Good, but they only put a murderer to death.

I'm glad he's gone.

[CRF450]

78. Good riddence, that bastard deserves every bit of it, and then some... nt

[Ed76638]

80. murdered who?

:shrug:

[WillowTree]

81. I'll just say that I'm not one bit sorry that he's dead.

[flvegan]

83. I see that a number of revenge apologists have checked in already.

Nice.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

85. Certainly The Victims Will Be Brought Back To Life Now

And the families of the victims will walk away from the whole experience whistling a happy tune. It's all a matter of simple math. They lost a member of their family, but they took out a member of somebody else's, so it's a zero sum. Everybody's back to where they were before this all happened. Everybody's happy. Right?

Now, let's get to the reality of this. It is a scientifically proven FACT that States who execute people show an IMMEDIATE up-tick in the amount of violent crimes committed in that State following the execution. The reason why doesn't really matter much, but most think it's because when the State demonstrates a lack of concern for the value of human life, everyone in the State feels it (kinda like a parent that tries to teach a child not to hit by...........hitting him--say one thing, do another, and the message doesn't get through).

So my question to all the smug, "I feel better now" John Wayne Justice types, how will you feel in a few days, or a few weeks, or a few months if (when) it's a member of YOUR family (or you yourself) that becomes the victim of a violent crime that is the offshoot of this execution. Will you feel better THEN? I hope you get plenty of satisfaction out of seeing another human being killed in your name. I hope you get so much happiness out of it that it allows you to overlook all the OTHER victims that his death creates in the weeks and months to come. Because it WILL happen. But chances are you won't read about it in the paper, so you'll be blissfully unaware, sleeping a contented sleep knowing that the scary monster has been killed.

[edbermac]

86. Some seem more upset over a convicted killer's execution than his 10 victims.

:shrug:

[Mudoria]

87. They always are...

[baldguy]

90. That's Fucking Bullshit

Murder is wrong. Whet we've done to Mohammad, and to dozens of others every year (several of whom have subsequently been proven to be innocent) is murder. It's twisted to manufacture excuses to make murder OK.

[backscatter712]

92. Can't say I'll miss that subhuman fuck.

Good riddance.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

93. I Won't Miss Rush Limbaugh Or Glenn Beck Either

They're miserable human beings who make life on this planet worse. Does that make it OK to kill them? Can I get blanket permission to kill everyone I hate?

You know, there was a guy who lived about 70 years ago who considered the Jews a bunch of "subhuman fucks," and wanted to say "good riddance" to all of them. He must have been a hero to you.

[Zodiak]

94. I see that we have a number of DUers who like a pound of flesh

Too bad their need for a pound of flesh extracts some of our collective soul.

[baldguy]

96. +1

I'm not concerned so much about John Mohammad's soul as I am my own. When I allow my govt kills someone, that makes me an accessory.